1- He did got the most of this squad in his second season though. He finished second to the best team in the country who got 100 points. We had the second best record against big teams after City. Better than that is playing better football and closing the gap with City but that's subjective. we gave up after Arsenal game when second was nearly guaranteed otherwise could have got 6 or so more points and he has never been a manager known for playing great attacking football anyway. You can talk all you want about De Gea and stuff but results and league position don't lie. Better than this was getting points closer to City and playing better football. That's about it.
2- I had nothing to do with this winning the title point. I replied on the 2 "facts" you mentioned.
3- This point is just really a nothing replay on the quotes I posted which proved your Pogba point being totally wrong and you seem to don't have a replay on it so you reverted back to the World Cup comments. These comments were tactical analysis of his inconsistency problem that Pogba should have listened to for his own sake. You're making it as if he insulted him, then after Mourinho very positive quotes about him pre and post Leicester game and giving him the armband, Pogba had a big chance to close the argument in front of the media once and for all and let everyone focus on the upcoming season, but then he went on and told the media he can't talk or he'll be fined. Hell, could have just said there's no problem with the coach and everyone should be working together for the sake of the club. Easy eh?
No one said they didn't argue together the season before it, but at the start of the 3rd season Mourinho actually tried to tie things up and close this subject by praising him pre and post opening game, saying he's happier with him now and he wants him to play for the fans, giving him the arm band etc. Pogba had the chance to follow on and close the subject but he decided to persist, the problem got bigger by the season went on and exploded. The quotes are obvious to you. Just make a little effort and read.
Currently Pogba is still repeating the same mistakes and doing the same as he was back then. Nothing has changed in him. Everything Mourinho in these "World Cup comments" you keep repeating are still happening. Still inconsistent, moody player who doesn't approach every game with full 100%, and still always leaving the subject of his future with the club open in front of the media just like he and his agent did in summer as if he wants to the media to continuously talk him about and where he'll go next. He still wants to leave.
I have never said once that Mourinho shouldn't have been sacked. By the end of his time here there was no comeback point for him or us and he had to go, but he his full 2 seasons were far better than what some of you're treating them to be, and in comparison to the shite show before and after them. No one know for sure what would have happened if we had a proper summer business and approached the 3rd season like any other. After his second season the team proved it can finish high in the table but still unable to challenge a team like City for the title. The objective was to reinforce the team more to get closer to City. The summer ended up being a disaster, everything ended up being toxic and he was deservedly sacked but people are right in saying that there's a chance if everything went as smooth as the previous 2 summer markets things might have went far better than where we're now.
1. Even if you think he got the most out of the squad, it doesn't mean the next season will go as smoothly. You can't just look at the table. It's not as simple as, well he got 2nd this season therefore, next season will see the same correlation and so if he's given the most money to spend, he'll win the title. I've already laid out the peripherals of that season and why I think 2nd place was a mirage so I won't list them again.
If we're going by money spent and league table results, he didn't get the best out of his squad in 2 of 3 of his seasons at United because United spent the most in 2016/17, and clearly didn't get the most in 2018/19 when compared to someone like Poch who spent nothing. This in my opinion proves that your summary of his progress is flawed.
You're picking and choosing when to follow that logic so it best reflects your hypothesis. For example, United spent the 2nd most in year 2, and you look at the table as an accurate representation of where along the rebuild he's at. However, you don't apply that to other clubs, and don't use that logic for anything other than that 2nd season. In 2018/19, Liverpool under 3 summer transfer windows spent €436mil and United spent €466mil. Yet in season 3, Liverpool were challenging for the title and United were 13 pts behind Spurs at the time of Mou's sacking. In season 1 of Mourinho's season, United spent the 2nd most behind City, and United were in 6th place on the league table. Why is it that only the 2nd season we get to look at the money spent and directly correlate it to the league table as if Mourinho did a great job?
I don't think your logic holds up. If we're merely restricting this entire conversation to season 2, I don't believe the league table proves where along the rebuild he's at. What's most important is whether or not United are clearly being effectively coached to resemble past successful Mourinho sides. For example, with Klopp and Pep, from week 1 there on, you could clearly see they resembled past successful sides of theirs where they press exactly how their former sides did, where they pass and move how their former sides did, etc... With Mourinho, the only thing that resembled his past sides were his defending. Yet even then, we didn't look as impenetrable as we conceded chances left and right. This is why I think de Gea was largely to credit for our defensive record and why Mourinho wanted another CB.
We weren't counter attacking like we did under Ole, as much as I think Mourinho did better than him. We just weren't. Our speed in counter attacks were pedestrian. We often just relied on individual brilliance just like we saw under LVG and Moyes. Movement was pretty awful. So it wasn't just a matter of execution like you could say for Klopp and Pep's sides in transition. We also relied on Fellaini to try and get us points by simply lumping it up to him. Give Mourinho Maguire and that portion of the side is not developed.
2. Sure you didn't, but you decided to tag into this conversation and this entire conversation was about that. You can't just ask me what my point was in regards to money spent, when that reply was targeted at someone else's point regarding that exact issue, and then play ignore when I explain why I used that as support for my argument.
3. The point was never about Pogba never being a disruption. Clearly he was and I never argued against that. Siorac's point was that Mourinho did not just start imploding based on Woodward failing to back him in the transfer window. It started before that, and your links to articles showing Pogba acting up after Mourinho's world cup comments is beside the point. It's a fact that Mourinho started this Pogba vs Mou thing back in early 2018 when he decided to bench him and sub him early, when he refused to do so with other players like Lukaku or Sanchez at that point in time. It clearly showed a decline in their relationship. The World Cup comments were a continuation of this, because he deflected any blame and merely pointed it at Pogba. We can't ignore this context under which led to Pogba also being disruptive. Sure, Pogba could have been the bigger man and got on board with Mourinho, but why is it that only Mourinho gets to decide when to play nice? He could have simply not spoken about Pogba's world cup or blamed himself during the interview. This would have solved everything and I doubt Pogba would act up after Leicester. This is not the first time he's had a falling out with his star players. It happened at Real Madrid and his Chelsea v2 stint.
Secondly, even if we ignore the entire Pogba Mourinho situation, Mou still lashed out at the youngsters. Mou still failed to take any responsibility, which is part of the reason why he lost the dressing room. All of this builds up, until it reached that 3rd season where everything went bad.
The larger point (which this Pogba Mou feud falls under) is that signs were there prior to that season. And so it's fact when Siorac says that Mourinho was on his way towards imploding prior to Woodward failing to back him in the transfer window. Sammsky denied this and merely regarded it as an opinion, when it's completely false. That's where the conversation was at before you jumped in. Go ahead and jump in, but understand that my original replies were in response to this conversation.
Just giving back tit for tat!