fecking hell. He wastes this much money over 6 years and acts surprised the decision makers are insulted.
Ed Woodward 2019 - Until all Arctic ice melts edition
- Thread starter fallengt
- Start date
Think you'll find he was.
Manchester United are negotiating with the Premier League for the release of John Murtough, their highly-rated Head of Elite Performance, with David Moyes ready to hand the 40-year-old a key behind-the-scenes role at Old Trafford.
Murtough, who spent 15 years with Academy and Performance responsibilities at Everton and Fulham, was recruited by the Premier League in October 2012 to work alongside Director of Youth Ged Roddy in implementing all aspects of elite performance in youth development.
Alongside Moyes at Everton, Murtough was involved in the development of home-grown players such as Wayne Rooney, Jack Rodwell and Ross Barkley while also leading the club’s pursuit of ‘marginal gains’ in areas such as sports science, nutrition, medicine and sports psychology.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/f...rmance-John-Murtough-to-join-David-Moyes.html
Not really, the only person holding keys is Woodward. The job that Murtough has is given by the board and no one else, same as Butt's role.
Go back and read what you posted earlier, unless you've edited itIf you picked out I'm being educated from my reply, I understand your state of mind more and more and begin to have empathy for you!
Okay mate whatever.
Woodward coming out and talking a load of crap. The man's a tw^t.
He’s barely said anything during the last six years, so for him to come out so much as recently must mean that he’s feeling the heat.
Hope that he is feeling the heat and he does something about it. I would like him to feck off but can't see that happening for a while. So I hope he finally brings some like Campos into help him.
Well, he practically just confirmed what most sane people already know; his input on footballing matter is close to zero except to put up the financial limitations or approvals for that matter.
United has a "flat" organization today with OGS, Murtough, Butt and Mike Judge co-operating. With OGS having the final say on transfers as he said himself. If we were to get a technical director he would take over mainly what Judge is doing and also outrank the other ones. Would it be such a big difference? Probably not, and its still about appointing the right person for the job.
Thought it was in principle interesting to see Woodward give an interview at all, since he usually just does monetary investor briefings. IMO it should happen more often for his own sake, it might start to remove some of the delusions about his role at the club.
United has a "flat" organization today with OGS, Murtough, Butt and Mike Judge co-operating. With OGS having the final say on transfers as he said himself. If we were to get a technical director he would take over mainly what Judge is doing and also outrank the other ones. Would it be such a big difference? Probably not, and its still about appointing the right person for the job.
Thought it was in principle interesting to see Woodward give an interview at all, since he usually just does monetary investor briefings. IMO it should happen more often for his own sake, it might start to remove some of the delusions about his role at the club.
And hows that on Ed ? You said Ed didn't support them and now you are changing your narrative . He has consistently spent lot of money for managers.
Not his problem that they chose to spent on wrong players.
Not surprised this moron is in denial. "Brilliant people who work on the footballing side" why do the most famous club in the world have such an inexplicably shite team then? It's all on you.
He just seems to be coming out with more sh!te all the time to try to get people to believe he is doing this amazing job. When he stated in the article "We must win trophies" I would have laughed if I hadn't been so p!ssed off. Not happening any time soon. Man's a fecking joke
Woodward feeling the heat.
"Brilliant football people at the club" "Efficent recruitement"....
If one had brilliant footballpeople at the club and an efficient recruitement, then one must be extremely unlucky to end up with this team after spending £100m on average on players over the last years. Unlucky indeed.
"Brilliant football people at the club" "Efficent recruitement"....
If one had brilliant footballpeople at the club and an efficient recruitement, then one must be extremely unlucky to end up with this team after spending £100m on average on players over the last years. Unlucky indeed.
this fecker literally said that the commercial side takes precedent and football doesn't matter in an investor callI think the situation is more complex then that.
When Sir Alex started his career with us, football was simpler. Clubs had a smaller pool of staff members and scouting nets were starting to develop. Sir Alex was brought up into a football mentality were managers were drilled to take care of everything from scouting to tactics right to staff recruitment and even putting a word with agents to get signings done. That doesn't mean that Sir Alex didn't get blindsided once in a while. A trip to Malta for example costed us Gazza. Meanwhile Ramsay ended up signing with Arsenal because Sir Alex couldn't meet the guy and instead left it to Gaz. No one, not even Sir Alex could be in two places at once.
As time went by, competition for players grew tougher. Every club started to develop their own scouting nets while every player (even U16s) started employing agents. Many continental clubs found it easier to delegate anything related to transfers to a specific person who could do this job full time. Some managers didn't like that. Mou for example had issues with it but ultimately most people who were involved in football saw it as a necessary evil. Both the manager and the CEO had too much on their plate to handle that part themselves, the latter was tasked to take care of the financial aspect of the club while the former was busy with the day to day running of the team (+ tactics). Unfortunately by that time Sir Alex was far too big to have things imposed on him. He felt that the manager should be at the pinnacle of the football's pyramid and tbf he had the record to defend his position. We did paid a price to that. United's transfers towards the end of Sir Alex's reign were solid but hardly spectacular. He simply had too much on his plate to court super agents which meant that certain players were off limits to us. Fortunately Sir Alex mastery of the EPL meant that we barely ever suffered the consequences of that up until he left.
When Sir Alex retired he made sure we kept the same system he fount. That was a bugger because the job was started to become too big for him let alone for the likes of Moyes. Meanwhile the managers we brought in simply lack the experience of working without a DOF. Unfortunately those same managers who had never enjoyed such free hand ended up quickly hooked to this lack of accountability as that meant that they could hire their friends and mates at both coaching level and at player's (Fellaini, Bastian, Matic, Ibra etc) level. That translated into a scenario were no one bothered to change things around as Woody saw the DOF as a waste of time while the manager saw him as a threat to this new found independence. Lets face it, if at work you can choose not having people breathing at your neck and constantly asking you why you're doing what you're doing then you'll be happier right? Same thing
What the club is doing is what it had been saying all along ie show unconditional support to the manager up until we decided to stop that support which often ended up with the manager kicking and screaming like a spoiled boy. For example the same manager who was allowed to buy a CM he barely ever played for 50m was stopped from buying Maguire despite we desperately needed him. Same with Moyes who thought that the club would honour that outrageously long contract despite him taking the champions to 7th place and LVG who once said that he thought that United could buy anybody (Veruka Salt anyone?)
That's not how things should work. We need somebody knowledgeable at board level who support the manager when he's reasonable while concurrently stopping him from doing a poo poo ie a person whose completely dedicated on transfers which in turn would mean that United won't be taken to the cleaners everytime and could handle a high staff turnover.
I keep having to stop to check myself as I'm reading this...
is beating relegation a trophy?
is beating relegation a trophy?sold two senior strikers, bought $120 million in defenders and plays ultra defensive football, not registering shots on target against awful awful teams...
But only in the Europa League. Once things get tough, revert to type and play Mata and Matic then talk about signing experienced players if we make it to January
Thank you. Everyone is under the impression that because we have the lowest average age, Ole is giving youth a chance and this is false.
The youth we have in the starting 11 that generally start under the age of 25:
Wan Bissaka 21 - £50m signing
Lindelof 25 - Jose Signing
Luke Shaw 24 - LVG signing
McTominay 22 - Jose integrated him
Rashford 21 - Been regular for 3/4 seasons
Martial 24 - £50m signing by LVG
Dan James 21 - Ole Signing
Perreira - Ole's continual insistence to play him is beyond me
So looking at that Ole hasn't really done any integration. He has brought in 3 youngsters from the academy Chong, Gomes and Greenwood.
Ole himself said he trusts Greenwood to play a major role, but then why play him right, left center? Give him the crentral role in a PL game!
This is a good post even if I dont agree on exactly all of it. We should appreciate the history and the structure of the club and that its not easy just to change in a couple of years.
But the history explains why we are in the situation we are today and maybe its not just about Ed or the managers? Its easy to play the blame game and shout some specific person OUT. Its pretty obvious that it has not helped so far though.
Maybe its a more core thing at the club. We have invested a lot in the scouting and youth systems and it needs time to settle now. Plus we need to rebuild the team and stick with it this time. If its not OGS carrying on being the manager because the results are not good enough; then it has to be someone else with the same (dreaded word) "philosophy".
What a load of bs quite frankly.
He never said that. He was asked about the prospect of incremental sponsorship opportunities after a successful season and Woodward answered that playing performances didn't had a meaningful impact on what can be done on the commercial side of things.
Someone making 2 inconsequential mistakes in a call centre these days gets axed.
How old are you?
He is one of the more intelligent posters on here that actually tries to argue his opinion even if you disagree with it.
And then there are posters like you.
One contributes more to the Caf than the other.
Thanks for your input, it's highly amusing.
You know exactly what I'm talking about. Unless in your opinion Ole is comfortable in his job and is under no pressure no matter the Liverpool result because Woodward said he has a long term plan with Ole.
Of course Woodward and the Glazers are the only people who can guarantee his job. But I don't believe what he said as I wrote in my post. If we cont to lose and we are in relegation zone you don't think he will fire him despite what he said?
I am not blaming it on a specific person. Tbf I wished I could because that would be easier to sort that out ie sack the guy and move on. In my opinion its a club cultural thing which is far more difficult to change. We've got in our club's DNA this obsession were the manager call the shots on everything football related. We swim or we sink based on his decision making.That's something that suits both the manager (ie more free reign) and the money people (less salaries to pay and overheads) but not the club. In the absence of someone whose fully dedicated on transfers and cutting inefficiency, the club is often found out to be inconsistent, slow in taking decisions and unable to either go beyond the limited transfer list a manager can come out with . That leads to a domino effect were deadwood are given contract extensions instead of being sold (simply because we can't handle a high staff turnover in the short period of time provided by the a transfer window), which in turn increase our salary bill while making it difficult for the club to get rid of those players later on or add the much needed new players we need. It was also felt during Sir Alex time as well. In fact its only thanks to Graham that Sir Alex stayed with us for so long. The Arsenal man offered Sir Alex a copy of his contract to bring to Edwards as proof that what he was asking for a pay rise was indeed justified. That's how clueless our money men can be on football matters.
This situation may be felt now more then ever since football clubs are leaving the typical owner/supporter based model to become corporate business juggernauts but in reality it had been haunting us for decades. Lets face it, unlike the likes of Real, Juventus and Bayern whose been dominating football for decades we're basically a 2 manager's club. Take Sir Matt and Sir Alex out of the picture and we won an astounding 2 league titles and an Europa League. That makes us worse then Wolves, Torino, Valencia and Nottingham Forest. Such single point of failure (ie the reliance on a genius manager whose capable of taking full control over the football side of things) would be unacceptable at any serious organisation.
We need someone with real courage to say, I'm re modernising the club irrespective of what the manager/business men likes or the club's history says. Unfortunately Woodward doesn't seem to be that person.
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Football is a strangely forgiving sport, from the ones that I follow it's the only one that doesn't quickly sanction failure, there is also a jobs for the boys mentality.
If Woodward is telling the truth, these 'football people' are nowhere near as 'brilliant' as he thought are they? They've been behind the wasting of £800m or so, with the squad floundering in the bottom half of the table - if Ed is absolved of blame, he at very least needs to be sending heads rolling and completely revamping this 'team of football people'.
Fair points, only 3 managers have ever led us to the domestic title through our 141-year history: Sir Matt, Sir Alex and Ernest Mangnall.
The day Ed Woodward resigns or limits his role to business will be the day I celebrate like winning the Champions League
Take Paisley out of the Liverpool equation and you axe 40ish% of their top of the line glory. Yet no one could deny that the Liverpool of that era would have continued to have won. Ferguson embodied an entire culture at the club, but the backroom staff and key players were all over that period's success, too.
Well it's only going to help if he is replaced by someone who is good at the job of building a club/team. If he is replaced by another Glazer puppet for example we still would be fecked.
Well, he can't be absolved because he and the board put these football people in place. Now we also can't go around and claim that he is taking football decisions when he isn't, it obfuscate the situation more than anything else.
According to wiki Liverpool have 8 managers who won the domestic title, AC Milan have 12 managers, Juventus and Inter have 13 managers, Bayern have 17 same as Real Madrid. I think Barcelona have more managers who won the league then Real did.
Meanwhile we only got 3 managers. Our system relies heavily on the manager who need to basically be so good to take care of everything football related himself. He sinks and we sink. No serious organization would allow such single point of failure to exist.
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Yes. We've been linked to a few names like VDS and it's all over the press so board will know the fans are watching and hopefully make a sensible appointment.
So you're saying Fergie reign was one big potential failure in the making? If we hadn't give him a free reign in football things we wouldn't have been a club we are now. Although you make some good points this one is a bit silly and it's as if United us not a big club. Take away managers point is as saying take away league titles from some club cause in that time league was easy or first few European cups from Madrid.
Well, yes, but Van der Sar was appointed CEO of a club that has had it structure set in place for I dont know how many years.
We are trying to change our structure; slowly admittingly.
To appoint him would be as much of a punt as employing a DoF or a new manager.
He also has no previous experience financially and a lot of Woodwards work nowadays is connected to the listing on NYSE. The legislation and rules on there are wickedly difficult; combined with our holding company being registered in the Cayman Islands. This is what people dont get: that part is the major part of what a CEO does and why all top PL-clubs even if they are not listed are run by "accountants".
Ajax are also listed, but on a much smaller marketplace and with a completely different ownership structure.
And respectfully (not to you personally, but in general): we will never ever appoint a CEO that is not "the Glazers puppet". It is kinda in the CEOs job description to be just that.
I think it also helps tremendously that the owners at least in Italy (Gianni Agnelli, Moratti father and son, Berlsuconi) inherently knew and understood the sport and could make the right choices in player recruitment and manager selection. A knowledgeable owner is key. Sadly, we're a financial play for the Glazers, mismanaged at that, and at 30x earnings don't think we are about to change ownership anytime soon.
SAF was a very special man with a very peculiar set of strength. His equivalents exist in other sports like Belichick in the NFL or Popovich in the NBA and while lots of organizations have tried to emulate it, they all failed because they didn't have Belichick, Popovich, SAF or Noves.
United's system was always a mess (ie business men negotiating directly with the manager). For example we were a step away from losing Sir Alex because an ignorant Edwards refused to believe that what SAF was asking for a payrise was justified. The biggest club in the world was bailed out by....an Arsenal man (Graham) who very graciously sent Sir Alex a copy of his own contract as proof. As time went by football changed with clubs creating new roles to cut inefficiency. We could live without them because Sir Alex came from a football world were managers used to do everything himself, he was good enough to delegate stuff (Sir Alex had some of the most experienced no 2s in football including Walter Smith and Carlos Q). Our inefficiency was something Sir Alex learnt to live with + having some guy dictating him at his age was something he wouldn't accept. Having said that, yes, the transfers we made towards the end of his career weren't that great. Luckily for us Sir Alex compensated to that through his mastery of winning the EPL. However, once he was gone.....