Massimiliano Allegri targets Manchester United job

VP89 · Oct 17, 2019

Leftback99 said:
How did he do at AC Milan once the top players like Ibra, Silva etc left?

From Google, terrible start to the season but managed to maximise the output of Balotelli, El Shawaary etc. And moved from his terrible start of the season (16th place) to ending at 3rd place.

My point about how he handles average players was more related to his time at a Serie C club and bringing them promotion straight away, and then his time at Cagliari where he brought them to their highest ever finish. That achievement at a bang average club made him win the award for best Serie A manager ahead of Jose Mourinho. This his all before all the good work he did with Juventus

Obviously he's far from perfect. He reached an abrupt end in his clubs for various reasons. But the man's got pedigree and is known to adapt well to players. He's an actual coach for starters. But also importantly he's one who will attract big names because of his achievements.

KiD MoYeS · Oct 17, 2019

I'll preface this with saying I think Ole should remain for now, as I don't think any other manager would have this team doing much better and I feel he is the man to fix the squad and culture.

I'd be sick if we went for Allegri. It would be throwing the long term plan out the window and I would be very confident that we would be in the same situation we are now this time next year. Is he as good a manager as Jose Mourinho? No he is not and Jose failed here!

Ole is the cheap and less controversial option for what we need right now. Someone to put the arm around these soft w*nkers putting on United shirts every week. Someone to bring in our three best players this season. Someone to clear the deadwood. Manchester United are not challenging for the next couple of seasons, regardless of the manager.

Honestly we can't keep letting these players get the manager sacked. We'll never get back to winning ways pulling the trigger everytime these average players stop playing. Ole hasn't hung them out to dry and they still let him down every week.

Gambit · Oct 17, 2019

yay, lets swap our style of play around again.

Leftback99 · Oct 17, 2019

VP89 said:
From Google, terrible start to the season but managed to maximise the output of Balotelli, El Shawaary etc. And moved from his terrible start of the season (16th place) to ending at 3rd place.

My point about how he handles average players was more related to his time at a Serie C club and bringing them promotion straight away, and then his time at Cagliari where he brought them to their highest ever finish. That achievement at a bang average club made him win the award for best Serie A manager ahead of Jose Mourinho. This his all before all the good work he did with Juventus

Obviously he's far from perfect. He reached an abrupt end in his clubs for various reasons. But the man's got pedigree and is known to adapt well to players. He's an actual coach for starters. But also importantly he's one who will attract big names because of his achievements.

They were in 11th when he left in January 2014. Our fans would soon turn if he produced anything similar with our poor squad.

I don't believe there's any truth in these stories anyway.

LARulz · Oct 17, 2019

Gambit said:
yay, lets swap our style of play around again.

But do we really have a style of play right now?

Kush · Oct 17, 2019

golden_blunder said:
I get that he’s an experienced coach and would probably get some kind of reaction from the players but that Italian style of play is not suited to the PL. generally speaking, the teams who score the most goals are the most successful. We dont need another Jose. We need a Pep/Shiny teeth type

I'm no Allegri fan but this is not true.

Antonio Conte strolled to a PL title 2.5 years ago beating both Pep/Shiny teeth. Ancelottis' Chelsea toppled us in 09/10 scoring over 100 goals in PL in the process. Even Ranieri (in what was a freak season) managed to deliver a PL title with Leicester.

It's not wise to write off any particular 'style of play' or managers of particular nationality, a top manager can coach his style of play to success.

golden_blunder · Oct 17, 2019

Kush said:
I'm no Allegri fan but this is not true.

Antonio Conte strolled to a PL title 2.5 years ago beating both Pep/Shiny teeth. Ancelottis' Chelsea toppled us in 09/10 scoring over 100 goals in PL in the process. Even Ranieri (in what was a freak season) managed to deliver a PL title with Leicester.

It's not wise to write off any particular 'style of play' or managers of particular nationality, a top manager can coach his style of play to success.

You missed my point. When I say the Italian style of play I mean the type of stuff we are accustomed to from Italian teams, giving very little away, ensuring defensive is strong first.
Ancellotis’ team scoring 100 goals underlines my point that that attacking football is king in England. He understood that. Ranieri did too, he tweaked very little and let a wave of confidence carry LFC to the title with the belief they could always score with the players they had upfront

Kush · Oct 17, 2019

golden_blunder said:
You missed my point. When I say the Italian style of play I mean the type of stuff we are accustomed to from Italian teams, giving very little away, ensuring defensive is strong first.
Ancellotis’ team scoring 100 goals underlines my point that that attacking football is king in England. He understood that. Ranieri did too, he tweaked very little and let a wave of confidence carry LFC to the title with the belief they could always score with the players they had upfront

Fair enough but I can counter that by using Antonio Conte, his Chelsea team was very defensive and yet they won the league at a canter when both Pep/Klopp were producing attacking football in the country. I definitely think you can achieve success in England by prioritizing defence first. Even a past it Mourinho was able to emulate some sort of success with us using that setup.

I want us to hire a more progressive manager but I don't think Allegri would be a bad appointment, he'll do well here.

Irrational. · Oct 17, 2019

Is he available? ✓
Is he an improvement on Ole? ✓
Is he keen on the job? ✓
Is he more tactically nuanced than Ole? ✓
Is he a proven winner? ✓
Does he have a footballing identity? ✓
Does he have European level experience? ✓
Will he do better than 2 wins in 8 PL games? ✓
Or 4 wins in 17 PL games if we are counting the horrific form from last season? ✓

Then it'll be a start. We've become far too transfixed on the 'Manchester United way'. The sad fact is, there is no Manchester United way. Sir Alex was the Manchester United way. We need to get back to winning ways before we can start dreaming about the Manchester United way. Ole is not the man. He was never supposed to be the man. Get those rose-tinted spectacles off and let's get someone in who knows what he's doing. Then once we establish ourselves back to a top 4-6 solid club, we can think about getting some more exotic fancy names in.

el3mel · Oct 17, 2019

Gambit said:
yay, lets swap our style of play around again.

What, we have a style of play now ? That's a big surprise for me.

Member 102134 · Oct 17, 2019

Gambit said:
yay, lets swap our style of play around again.

what style? :houllier:

sullydnl · Oct 17, 2019

Irrational. said:
Is he available? ✓
Is he an improvement on Ole? ✓
Is he keen on the job? ✓
Is he more tactically nuanced than Ole? ✓
Is he a proven winner? ✓
Does he have a footballing identity? ✓
Does he have European level experience? ✓
Will he do better than 2 wins in 8 PL games? ✓
Or 4 wins in 17 PL games if we are counting the horrific form from last season? ✓

Then it'll be a start. We've become far too transfixed on the 'Manchester United way'. The sad fact is, there is no Manchester United way. Sir Alex was the Manchester United way. We need to get back to winning ways before we can start dreaming about the Manchester United way. Ole is not the man. He was never supposed to be the man. Get those rose-tinted spectacles off and let's get someone in who knows what he's doing. Then once we establish ourselves back to a top 4-6 solid club, we can think about getting some more exotic fancy names in.

You're right, there is no Manchester United way and that's the problem. We've been jumping from one type of manager to another with no sense of a plan, which has left us with a squad that isn't just sub-par but is also disjointed as a result of being formed by five completely different managers.

Ole certainly isn't the man and we certainly need someone who knows what he's doing but that doesn't mean we should hire anyone we think will be an improvement, because that's a damn long list.

There's absolutely no way of guaranteeing a manager will be a success but you can ensure that your appointments are similar enough in approach that getting rid of one doesn't require a complete rethink of the club's approach each and every time.

The approach should be straightfoward. 1) Decide what the club's principles are, 2) hire the best man available who fits those principles, 3) if he fails, sign someone else who fits those principles. Don't just bank on someone being a "winner", because if/when they stop winning there's nothing to fall back on and we have to start again from scratch.

Abhinav · Oct 17, 2019

Irrational. said:
Is he available? ✓
Is he an improvement on Ole? ✓
Is he keen on the job? ✓
Is he more tactically nuanced than Ole? ✓
Is he a proven winner? ✓
Does he have a footballing identity? ✓
Does he have European level experience? ✓
Will he do better than 2 wins in 8 PL games? ✓
Or 4 wins in 17 PL games if we are counting the horrific form from last season? ✓

Then it'll be a start. We've become far too transfixed on the 'Manchester United way'. The sad fact is, there is no Manchester United way. Sir Alex was the Manchester United way. We need to get back to winning ways before we can start dreaming about the Manchester United way. Ole is not the man. He was never supposed to be the man. Get those rose-tinted spectacles off and let's get someone in who knows what he's doing. Then once we establish ourselves back to a top 4-6 solid club, we can think about getting some more exotic fancy names in.

Replace Ole with LVG and Allegri with Jose and you arrive at the same conclusion. And we know how that turned out. Allegri like Jose deploys a style of play that will immediately alienate half of the fan base. The only way fans will take to him is if he wins the PL title. And with the current squad and cut back on investment that we have seen over last 2 years, thats a pipe dream. Allegri is not the answer, definitely not with the current patience level of the fans.

Lennon7 · Oct 17, 2019

70% win rate with Juve, I’d have that. However I agree with some we can’t just keep flip flopping with completely different managers. We get Allegri in, we’d just end up selling players again and buying in different ones. The club seem to have absolutely no idea about a model of football they want to fit into and just go for the next big name.

el3mel · Oct 17, 2019

Abhinav said:
Replace Ole with LVG and Allegri with Jose and you arrive at the same conclusion. And we know how that turned out. Allegri like Jose deploys a style of play that will immediately alienate half of the fan base. The only way fans will take to him is if he wins the PL title. And with the current squad and cut back on investment that we have seen over last 2 years, thats a pipe dream. Allegri is not the answer, definitely not with the current patience level of the fans.

It'll be easier for Allegri to follow Ole than for Mourinho to follow LVG, because LVG had a contradictory style of play to Mourinho, while we currently don't have any style of play at all so Allegri will come to apply whatever he likes from scratch without much problems.

Allegri's only problem is I don't think he's suited for rebuilding team but I don't have any problem with his style of play. If we're hiring though, we'll need to appoint a proper DoF and splash the cash, but he's more of a coach than a full manager.

I think Poch will suit us more at the current state but Allegri is still a solid choice if we couldn't land the former.

Random Task · Oct 17, 2019

How sure are we that Allegri even wants the job.

Do we have anything substantial to go on or is this just media speculation?

Loon · Oct 17, 2019

I think it would be tough for anyone to come in and get this current side playing.

Fosu-Mens · Oct 17, 2019

Allegri had the best squad in Italy by some distance.

Our squad and starting 11 is not close to that. And without two players we look like a relegation candidate on paper and on the pitch.

Would be better off getting a manager that has shown signs of improving the players at the club through training and coaching over time.

Womp · Oct 17, 2019

Would once again be the wrong appointment imo. It's true we aren't going to compete realistically for a few years, so bring in a progressive manager, give him a few years to bring in the players he wants, improving the football year on year.

C'est Moi Cantona · Oct 17, 2019

Abhinav said:
Replace Ole with LVG and Allegri with Jose and you arrive at the same conclusion. And we know how that turned out. Allegri like Jose deploys a style of play that will immediately alienate half of the fan base. The only way fans will take to him is if he wins the PL title. And with the current squad and cut back on investment that we have seen over last 2 years, thats a pipe dream. Allegri is not the answer, definitely not with the current patience level of the fans.

Tbf I don't think patience is the right word, it's more acceptance now, and as soon as you do that then you are condoning the way the club is been run, so a lack of patience is a good thing imo, as there is clearly no grand plan for the future happening right now.

Allegri is not the answer, but he is 100 % better than what we have, and we should be grateful that a manage of this ilk is still interested in us, much more of this and we'll lose that ability as well.

I don't want this guy, but I'd probably be more appreciative of him than I was of Jose is he gets us anywhere near the top 4 under the current remit, it's just where we are right now.

Irrational. · Oct 17, 2019

sullydnl said:
You're right, there is no Manchester United way and that's the problem. We've been jumping from one type of manager to another with no sense of a plan, which has left us with a squad that isn't just sub-par but is also disjointed as a result of being formed by five completely different managers.

Ole certainly isn't the man and we certainly need someone who knows what he's doing but that doesn't mean we should hire anyone we think will be an improvement, because that's a damn long list.

There's absolutely no way of guaranteeing a manager will be a success but you can ensure that your appointments are similar enough in approach that getting rid of one doesn't require a complete rethink of the club's approach each and every time.

The approach should be straightfoward. 1) Decide what the club's principles are, 2) hire the best man available who fits those principles, 3) if he fails, sign someone else who fits those principles. Don't just bank on someone being a "winner", because if/when they stop winning there's nothing to fall back on and we have to start again from scratch.

I agree with you, but at the moment we're so far away from 'principles' in the first place I think we need someone that will just steady the ship for a season or two. If we're not careful we're going to continue on this depressing downward trajectory.

I think fans at the present will accept anything if it's an improvement on the shite we're seeing week in, week out under Ole.

Allegri is the best manager available at this moment in time, and I would grab that opportunity with both hands. The other managers are either tied down, being held to ransom by Daniel Levy or are too inexperienced.

pocco · Oct 17, 2019

Womp said:
Would once again be the wrong appointment imo. It's true we aren't going to compete realistically for a few years, so bring in a progressive manager, give him a few years to bring in the players he wants, improving the football year on year.

Yeah this. I feel like we had the right idea with Ole but just the wrong guy. Give the time to build a team to somebody that we know can uphold his end of the bargain in tactics, man management, style of football etc. I think most United supporters would feel a hell of a lot more comfortable with the situation if our manager had actually proven himself, shown he can get a lot out of his players and plays good football. The problem is Ole has only shown the opposite in the PL and it's unnerving to think we might trust him for a while longer yet as we slip further down the table and our players are ruined.

For example if we'd have given somebody like Nagelsmann or Poch the job in summer, we'd more or less be singing from the same hymn sheet and, most likely, they wouldn't have gutted the squad naively like Ole did without the recruitment done first. I think we'd all be more understanding of this whole process.

Le Red · Oct 17, 2019

golden_blunder said:
I get that he’s an experienced coach and would probably get some kind of reaction from the players but that Italian style of play is not suited to the PL. generally speaking, the teams who score the most goals are the most successful. We dont need another Jose. We need a Pep/Shiny teeth type

What are you on about? Four different Italian coaches won the Premier League in the last 10 editions.

VP89 · Oct 17, 2019

Leftback99 said:
They were in 11th when he left in January 2014. Our fans would soon turn if he produced anything similar with our poor squad.

I don't believe there's any truth in these stories anyway.

So from all of his great achievements, you choose to focus on that as though it has some higher weighting? Yeah, it didn't end great at Milan, but they were selling anything they can massively profit from. Thiago and Ibra were pushed out and he wasnt exactly blessed with mamouth funds to rebuild.

Leftback99 · Oct 17, 2019

VP89 said:
So from all of his great achievements, you choose to focus on that as though it has some higher weighting? Yeah, it didn't end great at Milan, but they were selling anything they can massively profit from. Thiago and Ibra were pushed out and he wasnt exactly blessed with mamouth funds to rebuild.

Yes because its most relevant to us and the squad that Mourinho and Solskjaer have/are being judged on. There's nothing to suggest he'd do better than Mourinho.

golden_blunder · Oct 17, 2019

Le Red said:
What are you on about? Four different Italian coaches won the Premier League in the last 10 editions.

Sigh. Keep reading through the thread pal

I said “Italian style of play” NOT “Italian manager”, big difference

VP89 · Oct 17, 2019

Leftback99 said:
Yes because its most relevant to us and the squad that Mourinho and Solskjaer have/are being judged on. There's nothing to suggest he'd do better than Mourinho.

Can you explain how his end at AC Milan is more relevant than his time at Cagliari or Juventus? Especially given he was under very different circumstances there versus here?

Leftback99 · Oct 18, 2019

VP89 said:
Can you explain how his end at AC Milan is more relevant than his time at Cagliari or Juventus? Especially given he was under very different circumstances there versus here?

Why pick our his best results and assume he'll do the same here? He not going to repeat his Juventus results with our squad.
As soon as the top players left Milan results went downhill, that's far more relevant to the squad he'd be working with here.

VP89 · Oct 18, 2019

Leftback99 said:
Why pick our his best results and assume he'll do the same here? He not going to repeat his Juventus results with our squad.
As soon as the top players left Milan results went downhill, that's far more relevant to the squad he'd be working with here.

I'm not picking his best results, rather you're just picking his worst and ignoring others (like Cagliari). I'm evaluating how he's done over time. You can't just isolate one phase and extrapolate from there. By that weird logic, Klopp would have been a bad choice because of his final season with Dortmund, where he massively underperformed despite having a great squad.

ILC · Oct 18, 2019

Leftback99 said:
Why pick our his best results and assume he'll do the same here? He not going to repeat his Juventus results with our squad.
As soon as the top players left Milan results went downhill, that's far more relevant to the squad he'd be working with here.

Milan that he left had a much worse squad than we do now. It's not even close.

If you're going to compare Wolves and teams of that ilk would be a much better comparison.

Mark Pawelek · Oct 18, 2019

sullydnl said:
You're right, there is no Manchester United way and that's the problem. We've been jumping from one type of manager to another with no sense of a plan, which has left us with a squad that isn't just sub-par but is also disjointed as a result of being formed by five completely different managers.

No. That's not been the problem. The main problem has been failure to move weak players on and out. bringing, then keeping players like Mata, Lingard, Matic, Fred, Rojo here. They can't win playing the United Way, the Mourinho Way, nor any way. They must leave in January.

The problem isn't so much buying weak players. It is keeping them. SAF brought lots of weak players in his final years; but most lasted no longer than a season here.

Walters_19_MuFc · Oct 19, 2019

The one thing I like about Allegri is his ability to be versatile. He very rarely sticks to one formation, which he demonstrated by adopting and switching between several different formations during his time at Milan and Juventus, using a 433, 352, 442, etc. This normally happens in game, too.

I personally think if we do get a striker and midfielder in January, then we should go to a 442, which is what Allegri used at Juventus in his last season. Well, defended in a 442/352 and attacked in a 433.

As you can see from the gif above, we have the players to move into three formations (maybe more) during game.

thejtrain · Oct 19, 2019

KiD MoYeS said:
Honestly we can't keep letting these players get the manager sacked. We'll never get back to winning ways pulling the trigger everytime these average players stop playing. Ole hasn't hung them out to dry and they still let him down every week.

Alright, can people stop saying this? They are not stopping playing for the manager, but the quality just isn't there. We have, at best, 2 world-class players, a bunch of overrated individuals, and a boatload of bang average players. Put them under a manager like Ole, and you get exactly what you'd expect. It's not like the players are betraying the manager everytime (you correctly said he didn't even hang them out dry, so why would they stop playing?), but that's just their level given the quality of the coaching and the team.

Sparky_Hughes · Oct 19, 2019

Mark Pawelek said:
No. That's not been the problem. The main problem has been failure to move weak players on and out. bringing, then keeping players like Mata, Lingard, Matic, Fred, Rojo here. They can't win playing the United Way, the Mourinho Way, nor any way. They must leave in January.

The problem isn't so much buying weak players. It is keeping them. SAF brought lots of weak players in his final years; but most lasted no longer than a season here.

We are already struggling to field a team because if injuries and you want to ship out five players in January?grantees they are crap but still, :lol:

Majima · Oct 20, 2019

Any news on him recently or has it all gone quiet now?

Le Red · Oct 24, 2019

golden_blunder said:
Sigh. Keep reading through the thread pal

I said “Italian style of play” NOT “Italian manager”, big difference

Is it a big difference though? These managers had a lot of years working in Italy before they started plying their trade elsewhere. They might have adapted somewhat, but unless you think they made a 180 twist in what they learned and implemented in their homeland, I'd say their practices are far more representative of "Italian style of play" than whatever outdated stereotype you have in mind.

AltiUn · Oct 24, 2019

Says he targets the United job, if he could hit that target he’s already better than any of our attackers.

AFC NimbleThumb · Nov 3, 2019

Bayern bound?

tentan · Nov 4, 2019

Get him before Bayern do.

lsd · Nov 4, 2019

Please take him Bayern

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