PL D FA Premier League

Manchester United 1:1 Liverpool

Post-match discussion


Sun, 20 October 2019

Isotope

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Pereira clearly. He's got the attacking threat of a blind squirrel.

Although I won't fault his attitude today, but his decisions in the final third were... bad (and thats a kind description).
Then we had 2 against their 3 CM?
 

lysglimt

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Defensively we are close to the best in the League . going forward we are not. But we now have proved against Arsenal, Leicester and Liverpool - that we certainly have a Foundation in Place. If we get Pogba and Martial going - we should be ok!
 

RedSky

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Then we had 2 against their 3 CM?
Oh, I was talking about future games. If we're talking about today then I think the tactics were mainly spot on. But in an ideal world you'd have Rashford and Martial (taking Dan James spot) and then Pogba in place of Pereira. It's tough for Dan James though because I think he's actually already pretty important as he's got a great engine and attitude.
 

Brown Gooner

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Was cheering for you lot the whole game. You were really good in the first half, shouldn't have gone so narrow & defensive in the 2nd half but still you really should've won this. Ashley Young went to sleep & Fred gave effort & all but just isn't that good.

& VAR did it's job perfectly
 
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Posh Red

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I thought we played well today for most part, making Liverpool look average, until late on when we got tired & was pushed back. The only thing that concerned be & I would criticise the manager for is our substitutions, or lack of them. He brought on Martial with 20 min to go to replace Rashford, which coincided with us being pushed back. Did Martial touch the ball in the match? Other than Williams deep in injury time?, that was it. It was clear our players were getting tired & needed fresh legs but Solskjaar never did anything, except take of the one player who had most energy out there.
Martial was brought on with six minutes to go. Although I don't think he should have been brought on either.
 

Cathy Ferguson

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We have taken 8 of our meagre 10 points (and are unbeaten) from the games against teams that allow us to play to our strengths, ie counter attacking football. We need to improve our attacking play against the teams that sit deep and defend.
 

Duncan the Great

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Loss down to OGS inept management again. Noticeably changed tactics and tried to sit on 1-0, they didn't push us back we stopped going forward as we did in first half and we defended deeper and deeper. Your always going to concede if you let teams dictate like that. Surprisingly they were there for the taking today, if only he had kept his nerve and pushed the wing backs up as we did in first half.
 

peridigm

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:lol:

13th place right now and some fans on here seem quite happy with this.
I know standards have fallen, but people need to wake up.

Look back to the predictions thread, made before the season started. Some people believed we were nailed on for top 4 and now we are in 13th place.
Those people who predicted top 4, need to speak up.

IMO, it's Woodward that needs to be removed from his position.
Then have the next DoF select a new manager who is able to finish in top 4 positions.

13th place after 9 matches. Why am I the only one who finds this unacceptable?
You’re not the only one. What can we do about it though? Predicted a loss today along with 80% of the caf. We played well at times today but Liverpool were not great. The fact that a 1 goal game hinges on Ashley Young doing his job in 2019 is a disgrace.
 

Kentish

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What the feck will it take to finally get rid of Ashley Young? He is constantly making mistakes that cost United, and yet he just keeps getting games. I would take someone from the U23s ahead of him, because at least those kids will have potential. Young just has potential mistakes.
Williams deserves a go
 

always_hoping

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What the feck will it take to finally get rid of Ashley Young? He is constantly making mistakes that cost United, and yet he just keeps getting games. I would take someone from the U23s ahead of him, because at least those kids will have potential. Young just has potential mistakes.
Good question i really can't answer. At his stage in his career he should be playing with some middle of the road league one club. Must be in his contract that he has start a number of games each season.
 

minoo-utd

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Defensively we are close to the best in the League . going forward we are not. But we now have proved against Arsenal, Leicester and Liverpool - that we certainly have a Foundation in Place. If we get Pogba and Martial going - we should be ok!
Should be ok foe what? For not going down?
 

Amadaeus

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If Tuanzebe had played, we would have probably won that game. We were set up well for the counter and defensively. I couldn’t see Liverpool scoring unless through a mistake or a lapse of concentration from a United player. This draw will definitely improve moral and I can see us smashing Norwich 1-0 next week.
 

minoo-utd

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Ole is stupid at subs. It was a clinical time, one of many many reasons why he should be out sooner rather than later.
 

RedDevilSwe

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Sad fecking times when people on here are celebrating a draw at Old Trafford.
 

ClutchHunter

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Who do those of you criticising the lack of subs think he should have brought on? That bench is awful, and I think that's due to a lack of investment from the board following years and years of awful windows rather than anything Ole has control over.
 

Snow

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I get your point but we have fallen pretty far. I think the point today, anyone would have taken at the start if the game. The important thing now is if we can draw to the *cough* best team in Europe, we should be able to beat anyone. Hopefully confidence starta to come back. So glad to see Rashford scoring a poachers goal.
I don't. Point away to Liverpool or City, fine. Beforehand I don't think a point is acceptable in any match.
 

mariachi-19

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Who do those of you criticising the lack of subs think he should have brought on? That bench is awful, and I think that's due to a lack of investment from the board following years and years of awful windows rather than anything Ole has control over.
Completely agree. He didn't make subs because the team had balance and he didn't want to upset the apple cart. I'd have done exactly the same thing.

Martial for Rashford was quite literally the only sub I would have made.
 

Seij

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We have taken 8 of our meagre 10 points (and are unbeaten) from the games against teams that allow us to play to our strengths, ie counter attacking football. We need to improve our attacking play against the teams that sit deep and defend.
Maybe that's precisely Ole's long term plan. Get us near the relegation zone and have other teams see us as easy targets for points and come at us attacking. Use the one and only strategy Ole knows to recreate Leiscester's title winning season.
 

tentan

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Good result really. Surprised they didn't beat us 5-0 or something.
 

KristianMackle

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I completely forgot about this game 2 hours before it started and missed the whole thing. Weirdly enough, only realized just after it had ended. Glad we didnt lose.
 

NewGlory

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I wonder what is the game those people watched who are claiming that we tried to "defend one goal and started sitting back", because that was not at all what happened. We kept attacking. Ole was very clear in his post-match that he was trying for second goal. The substitution he made right before the goal - he brought in Martial to get the second goal. If he were defending a single goal, with 9 minutes to go, he would have brought-in more defensive reinforcements. That is not what he did.

We drew because Ashley Young and Rojo let a lousy pass turn into a shite goal. They lost concentration and gave Liverpool a chance to draw. Simple as that. Rojo doesn't play enough so maybe that explains him stumbling in a goal of this importance and intensity. No excuse whatsoever for Young. With the amount of his experience over years, with how much he's played this season - it was totally inexcusable. He let the team down, but don't for a second hang this on Ole or the rest of the squad - they did their best.

Go look back at the predictions before the match on this website. 75% predicted us losing! Many predicted Losing with 2:0, 3:0, or even 4:0. We are 13th in the league, Liverpool is #1 with 6 point ahead of City, and we made them look lousy! And we made them look lousy in big part because Ole chose the best tactics he could play with the players he had, custom-fit to our own squad, and the opponent. You could easily say - he outperformed Klopp and Liverpool because other than "Old Trafford effect" they should have won and we almost did.

Give Ole proper credit, give our team proper credit. Yes, disappointing that we didn't win, but in many ways we were clearly better than Liverpool and that didn't just happen - it was a result of impressive game plan and great execution (sans one loss of concentration). Be proper fans and give credit where credit is due. Seriously.
 

Tarrou

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First time at old Trafford for 35 years when we have been 1-nil up at half time we didn’t go on to win the game.

I should have put “at old Trafford” in post I’ll edit it
I'm pretty sure that record is we haven't lost after being up at half time?
 

moodyred

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Give credit where credit is due. We played with intensity in the first half and was the better team. In the second half, I felt that the team became more cautious (yet again when taking the lead) or ran out of steam. We did not challenge with the same intensity and got punished.

Overall, great effort by the team and a result that was better than expected. Let's hope we build upon this.
 

Tarrou

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would've taken a point before the game but felt gutted with one in the end

much better performance though
 

el3mel

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I wonder what is the game those people watched who are claiming that we tried to "defend one goal and started sitting back", because that was not at all what happened. We kept attacking. Ole was very clear in his post-match that he was trying for second goal. The substitution he made right before the goal - he brought in Martial to get the second goal. If he were defending a single goal, with 9 minutes to go, he would have brought-in more defensive reinforcements. That is not what he did.

We drew because Ashley Young and Rojo let a lousy pass turn into a shite goal. They lost concentration and gave Liverpool a chance to draw. Simple as that. Rojo doesn't play enough so maybe that explains him stumbling in a goal of this importance and intensity. No excuse whatsoever for Young. With the amount of his experience over years, with how much he's played this season - it was totally inexcusable. He let the team down, but don't for a second hang this on Ole or the rest of the squad - they did their best.

Go look back at the predictions before the match on this website. 75% predicted us losing! Many predicted Losing with 2:0, 3:0, or even 4:0. We are 13th in the league, Liverpool is #1 with 6 point ahead of City, and we made them look lousy! And we made them look lousy in big part because Ole chose the best tactics he could play with the players he had, custom-fit to our own squad, and the opponent. You could easily say - he outperformed Klopp and Liverpool because other than "Old Trafford effect" they should have won and we almost did.

Give Ole proper credit, give our team proper credit. Yes, disappointing that we didn't win, but in many ways we were clearly better than Liverpool and that didn't just happen - it was a result of impressive game plan and great execution (sans one loss of concentration). Be proper fans and give credit where credit is due. Seriously.
You must be the one who didn't watch the match if we think we "kept on attacking". I for one and unlike many others don't have much problem with our defensive tactics in the second but it was defensive. We had 32% possession of the ball and in the second half it was about 75-25% for the majority of time.

So if you want to defend him you can say his defensive tactics worked but to say we kept attacking while blaming others for not watching the game is kinda funny.
 

The Boy

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Lots of the caf say they wouldn't mind the results if they could see clear progression and the players put in the effort.

Tactically for this Ole got it right, people will say Liverpool were poor, but from the start your wing backs shut down their full backs and your midfield choked the passes to their front line. I thought Ole played a tactical blinder. Having spent the last few weeks reading opinions claiming that Ole is tactically out of depth, now suddenly his in game management id back in question as tactically he got it right, but look at your bench, there was no one there.

Liverpool at home is arguably your biggest game of the season and your players were totally up for it, you outplayed the best team in the league at the moment for long periods of the game and that was still with 3 key players out. Yes 13th place is an anomaly for United, but I thought you looked great yesterday.

Weirdly you seem to play better when the pressure is off, with all the predictions of Liverpool steamrolling you lot, the players had a kind of freedom to push forward. James and Rashford looked great together and that speed and combination will terrify quite a few defences. Next week at Norwich will be interestng as the pressure to win is back on.

On another note, I thought the way James was treated was disgusting, he was bullied, hit and fouled non stop. He needs better protection from referees.
 

NK86

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Defensively we are close to the best in the League . going forward we are not. But we now have proved against Arsenal, Leicester and Liverpool - that we certainly have a Foundation in Place. If we get Pogba and Martial going - we should be ok!
We were defensively absolutely fine even when Jose was here, barring his usual breakdown in his third season. The way we set up plays a huge part in how we are conceding less. We basically are a counter attacking team and thus sit back most of the time and then wait for a mistake from the opposition. Nonetheless I would take that as well if we were a good counter attacking team but we are not. Ole is just a defensive manager just like Mourinho with the difference being that we are now worse attacking wise.
 

croadyman

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We have taken 8 of our meagre 10 points (and are unbeaten) from the games against teams that allow us to play to our strengths, ie counter attacking football. We need to improve our attacking play against the teams that sit deep and defend.
Only way I can see us improving our attacking play against teams who sit deep and defend is by buying a creative midfielder in January, what we did today will not be effective against teams like that so need someone to unlock the door in those kind of games.
 

croadyman

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:lol:

13th place right now and some fans on here seem quite happy with this.
I know standards have fallen, but people need to wake up.

Look back to the predictions thread, made before the season started. Some people believed we were nailed on for top 4 and now we are in 13th place.
Those people who predicted top 4, need to speak up.

IMO, it's Woodward that needs to be removed from his position.
Then have the next DoF select a new manager who is able to finish in top 4 positions.

13th place after 9 matches. Why am I the only one who finds this unacceptable?
Yeah we simply have to appoint a DOF but unfortunately Woody from Toy Story will never put his ego in check for that to happen, he just cannot bear to relinquish any control of transfers and it has cost us badly over the last six years.
 

NewGlory

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Only way I can see us improving our attacking play against teams who sit deep and defend is by buying a creative midfielder in January, what we did today will not be effective against teams like that so need someone to unlock the door in those kind of games.
We certainly need midfielders (not sure we will buy them in January, though) but we also need a proper striker. Today worked because Rashford played in the middle in tandem with Dan James in what Ole described as 3-5-2 formation. Rashford is not a proper striker in the 4-2-3-1 we have played this season. Mourinho was pretty clear about that in post-match yesterday and you'd say if anybody knows what Rash can and cannot do, Mou is one of them. He needs to either play on a flank or if he played in the middle he needs a partner. We just need to think of the last proper striker we had - Ibra, to clearly see how Rashford is nothing like that.
 

NewGlory

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Yeah we simply have to appoint a DOF but unfortunately Woody from Toy Story will never put his ego in check for that to happen, he just cannot bear to relinquish any control of transfers and it has cost us badly over the last six years.
Not sure it's just the ego. He wants to be in full control of the money and Glazers want him to also accountant-the-heck out of it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 

croadyman

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We certainly need midfielders (not sure we will buy them in January, though) but we also need a proper striker. Today worked because Rashford played in the middle in tandem with Dan James in what Ole described as 3-5-2 formation. Rashford is not a proper striker in the 4-2-3-1 we have played this season. Mourinho was pretty clear about that in post-match yesterday and you'd say if anybody knows what Rash can and cannot do, Mou is one of them. He needs to either play on a flank or if he played in the middle he needs a partner. We just need to think of the last proper striker we had - Ibra, to clearly see how Rashford is nothing like that.
Yeah completely agree with what you are saying about Rashford being better playing off the flank. There has been rumours of moves for either Moussa Dembele or Werner, what would be your feelings about signing either of them?

Personally I am not averse to us bringing in Mandzukic as he would offer us something completely different but hope he isn't brought in on his own because that would leave us still light up front.
 

NewGlory

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Yeah completely agree with what you are saying about Rashford being better playing off the flank. There has been rumours of moves for either Moussa Dembele or Werner, what would be your feelings about signing either of them?

Personally I am not averse to us bringing in Mandzukic as he would offer us something completely different but hope he isn't brought in on his own because that would leave us still light up front.
I think Martial wants to be the proper striker and he may actually have it in him, but he needs to be not injured more and be way more reliable in every game. I don't mind bringing somebody older like Mandzukic in, if he will be there to support Martial and help Greenwood develop, rather than compete with them. That may be Mandzukic, if he still has couple years of top quality left in him?

Honestly, I am not sure Dembele or Werner would even join United right now, considering we are 99% certain to miss Champions League next season. And if they did, Ole would need to figure out how to change psychology of his players so that they thrive with competition. People talk a lot about how Ole moved Lukaku out of the team and it's totally not true. Lukaku decided to leave the moment he was told he would not be a guaranteed starter. In contrast, everybody in Man City, under Pep, knows they don't have a guaranteed starter spot and they are all OK with it. Not the case in our team. Can't bring the likes of Dembele or Werner for as long as our players have such attitudes, I don't think so.
 

gerdm07

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Good match. I hope we start playing with that type of intensity every match. Andreas deserves a special mention as he probably played as good as he can.

I like the 3-5-2 for this team. AWB was very good in the role and Shaw would be also. Replace Andreas with Pogba we could look pretty dangerous. Maybe we rotate Marial, James and Rashford for the two forward spots which would be good in the long run.

Fred and McT did pretty well and we can stay with them for a while.
 

Gator Nate

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If we keep playing like that we won’t sit back as the system becomes set.

Scouses got away with a lot and we bossed them for long periods.

Our tactics proved better than theirs - we need greater squad strength to carry it to a permanent capability.

Happy for once especially since Flopp is full of BS - again
Defensively we are close to the best in the League . going forward we are not. But we now have proved against Arsenal, Leicester and Liverpool - that we certainly have a Foundation in Place. If we get Pogba and Martial going - we should be ok!
Go look back at the predictions before the match on this website. 75% predicted us losing! Many predicted Losing with 2:0, 3:0, or even 4:0. We are 13th in the league, Liverpool is #1 with 6 point ahead of City, and we made them look lousy! And we made them look lousy in big part because Ole chose the best tactics he could play with the players he had, custom-fit to our own squad, and the opponent. You could easily say - he outperformed Klopp and Liverpool because other than "Old Trafford effect" they should have won and we almost did.

Give Ole proper credit, give our team proper credit. Yes, disappointing that we didn't win, but in many ways we were clearly better than Liverpool and that didn't just happen - it was a result of impressive game plan and great execution (sans one loss of concentration). Be proper fans and give credit where credit is due. Seriously.
All of these, I'm on board with. Some of the reactions on here seem to be occurring in a total vacuum. It's not that we've settled for anything, but to expect some massive win in our state against Pool on their run was foolishness. The equalizer was a bad mistake, but it doesn't undo everything good that happened today.

The biggest thing I saw here today was that Ole changed. And got it right. I don't feel so worried abut the next few games because of that.
 

Player Ratings

6.2 Total Average Rating

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Compiled from 457 ratings.

Score Predictions

164,534,87
  • Man Utd win
  • Liverpool win
  • Draw

Detailed Results

  • 20% Man Utd 0:3 Liverpool
  • 12% Man Utd 0:2 Liverpool
  • 12% Man Utd 0:5 Liverpool
  • 7% Man Utd 0:4 Liverpool
  • 7% Man Utd 2:1 Liverpool
  • 7% Man Utd 1:3 Liverpool
  • 6% Man Utd 1:0 Liverpool
  • 6% Man Utd 1:1 Liverpool
  • 5% Man Utd 1:2 Liverpool
  • 4% Man Utd 0:0 Liverpool
  • 3% Man Utd 2:0 Liverpool
  • 3% Man Utd 1:4 Liverpool
  • 1% Man Utd 5:0 Liverpool
  • 1% Man Utd 2:2 Liverpool
  • 1% Man Utd 0:1 Liverpool
  • 1% Man Utd 3:0 Liverpool
  • 1% Man Utd 4:0 Liverpool
  • 1% Man Utd 2:3 Liverpool
  • 1% Man Utd 3:2 Liverpool
  • 1% Man Utd 1:5 Liverpool
  • 1% Man Utd 3:1 Liverpool
  • 0% Man Utd 4:1 Liverpool
  • 0% Man Utd 4:2 Liverpool
  • 0% Man Utd 2:4 Liverpool
Compiled from 785 predictions.
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Match Stats

  1. Man Utd
  2. Liverpool
Possession
32% 68%
Shots
7 10
Shots on Target
2 4
Corners
3 1
Fouls
6 14

Referee

Martin Atkinson