Maguire and Lindelof Partnership

Isotope · Oct 21, 2019

romufc said:
I totally don't get this notion. Ole has seen enough of Smalling to realise he isnt what he wanted. Smalling cannot play possession based football, he is not composed at all on the ball.

How many goals has Smalling scored that makes him a threat?

Don't forget how many penalties he could potentially concede.

How many more points would we have got? We had smalling last season and we werent better defensively.

Also our best run last season under Ole, the pairing was Lindelof and Jones.

It's all good if we actually play "possession" football. But how could you watch this team and you can say we're "possession" team?

And "penalties he could potentially concede". Goodness gracious.

Sandikan · Oct 21, 2019

It was pretty alarming how Origi was giving Lindelof a bit of a going over early in the first half.
Then lucky Mane handled it!

I'm still shocked how many rate Lindelof better than Smalling, who is faster, better in the air and better on one to ones ie - the keys in defending!

Chaky_Best · Oct 21, 2019

We just love the ones that are not there.

Everyone were hoping to sell Smalling, when the guy was our best CB since Vidic and Rio left. Same for Blind.

Now that Tuanzebe did ok against Rochdale, we all want to see him.

Guys, relax a bit. Except Maguire who is a very good CB, all our CB in the club are trash. The only decent one would have been Smalling, but we decided to offload him, and keep Jones and Rojo.

Anyway, that's the culture of today, we just think that the the one that is missing is better.

I really think that Smalling would have been more solid than Lindelof, but Ole decided differently.

romufc · Oct 21, 2019

Isotope said:
It's all good if we actually play "possession" football. But how could you watch this team and you can say we're "possession" team?

And "penalties he could potentially concede". Goodness gracious.

Possession football doesn't always mean 70% possession every game mate.
It also helps when you are under pressure when a CB wins the ball his first instinct isnt to hoof the ball upfield like we did at Anfield last year.

Lindelof can find a pass which can start a counter attack.

So you can say "Goodness Gracious" to that but having Smalling would mean we would have got more points?

Go check how many goals we have conceded.. but i guess Smalling over Lindelof and Tuanzebe would mean he would not have conceded V Arsenal, Wolves, Palace, Liverpool. Newcastle and Southampton?

He did so well for us last season

So remind me how is he a greater attacking threat on set pieces?

billybee99 · Oct 21, 2019

Where are all those goofballs that were defending this guy's horrible heading abilities earlier in the season "it's not his fault that he jumping against a giant". This guy has a major brain fart in every game now it seems. He was a very lucky boy that VAR saved him on Sunday.

Van Piorsing · Oct 21, 2019

Chaky_Best said:
We just love the ones that are not there.

Everyone were hoping to sell Smalling, when the guy was our best CB since Vidic and Rio left. Same for Blind.

Now that Tuanzebe did ok against Rochdale, we all want to see him.

Guys, relax a bit. Except Maguire who is a very good CB, all our CB in the club are trash. The only decent one would have been Smalling, but we decided to offload him, and keep Jones and Rojo.

Anyway, that's the culture of today, we just think that the the one that is missing is better.

I really think that Smalling would have been more solid than Lindelof, but Ole decided differently.

Both are not good enough to carry us back to Champions League. If there's a long term plan, Ole needs to start looking ahead of time and beyond what we have that failed us so many times.

RUCK4444 · Oct 21, 2019

Chaky_Best said:
We just love the ones that are not there.

Everyone were hoping to sell Smalling, when the guy was our best CB since Vidic and Rio left. Same for Blind.

Now that Tuanzebe did ok against Rochdale, we all want to see him.

Guys, relax a bit. Except Maguire who is a very good CB, all our CB in the club are trash. The only decent one would have been Smalling, but we decided to offload him, and keep Jones and Rojo.

Anyway, that's the culture of today, we just think that the the one that is missing is better.

I really think that Smalling would have been more solid than Lindelof, but Ole decided differently.

I agree on all of the above. I feel Smalling is a better defender than Lindelof and I would have been interested to see how a Maguire & Smalling partnership would look.

Smalling is much better one vs one than Lindelof and better in the air.

Smalling does have a clanger in him but so does Lindelof except his are more frequent. Yesterday’s would have been a howler if Mane’s goal wasn’t disallowed.

I’ve never understood why we got rid of Blind, by far the best positionally that we had and passing range much better than anybody we had at the time. Too short and not a true centre back but better than the dross we’ve kept for years.

I have big big expectations from Tuenzebe. I think he has all the attributes to kick on and be class.

VeevaVee · Oct 21, 2019

Chaky_Best said:
We just love the ones that are not there.

Everyone were hoping to sell Smalling, when the guy was our best CB since Vidic and Rio left. Same for Blind.

Now that Tuanzebe did ok against Rochdale, we all want to see him.

Guys, relax a bit. Except Maguire who is a very good CB, all our CB in the club are trash. The only decent one would have been Smalling, but we decided to offload him, and keep Jones and Rojo.

Anyway, that's the culture of today, we just think that the the one that is missing is better.

I really think that Smalling would have been more solid than Lindelof, but Ole decided differently.

I don't think most wanted to get rid of Smalling. People just wanted an upgrade. He left on loan because he wanted first team football while he's still in his prime, which is fair enough.

I'd also like a Maguire Smalling partnership though. We could really do with another CB but it's at the bottom of a long list.

Isotope · Oct 21, 2019

romufc said:
Possession football doesn't always mean 70% possession every game mate.
It also helps when you are under pressure when a CB wins the ball his first instinct isnt to hoof the ball upfield like we did at Anfield last year.

Lindelof can find a pass which can start a counter attack.

So you can say "Goodness Gracious" to that but having Smalling would mean we would have got more points?

Go check how many goals we have conceded.. but i guess Smalling over Lindelof and Tuanzebe would mean he would not have conceded V Arsenal, Wolves, Palace, Liverpool. Newcastle and Southampton?

He did so well for us last season

So remind me how is he a greater attacking threat on set pieces?

The goodness gracious comment is for that "potentially conceded penalty" comment, which is not remotely true or proven even after so many games he was under VAR.

And still, I don't think anyone can say that current United play possession football; which is the silly 'excuse' of not favoring Smalling by Ole.

Adcuth · Oct 21, 2019

I think we need to consider using the 343 from yesterday as our go to formation for a while. A Tuanzabe/Maguire/ Lindelof back line would be pretty tough to beat. Given we have shite options at centre mid having that extra body won't half help us. Axel will get some much needed assurance too while he settles in to paying at this level. Plus Maguire as a stopper and being able to break forward as he likes to will still be covered by 2 players

Sylar · Oct 21, 2019

Adcuth said:
I think we need to consider using the 343 from yesterday as our go to formation for a while. A Tuanzabe/Maguire/ Lindelof back line would be pretty tough to beat. Given we have shite options at centre mid having that extra body won't half help us. Axel will get some much needed assurance too while he settles in to paying at this level. Plus Maguire as a stopper and being able to break forward as he likes to will still be covered by 2 players

343/352 I think would work. The obvious issue is when we have an injury to one of them, but then I guess a 433 makes sense.

I think Tuanzebe/Maguire should be looked at as first choice long-term.

Adcuth · Oct 21, 2019

Sylar said:
343/352 I think would work. The obvious issue is when we have an injury to one of them, but then I guess a 433 makes sense.

I think Tuanzebe/Maguire should be looked at as first choice long-term.

We still have 2 back ups, 3 when bailly is back. But yeah I'd prefer to revert to Axel and Maguire. Just looks like a ferocious partnership could be formed there

romufc · Oct 21, 2019

Isotope said:
The goodness gracious comment is for that "potentially conceded penalty" comment, which is not remotely true or proven even after so many games he was under VAR.

And still, I don't think anyone can say that current United play possession football; which is the silly 'excuse' of not favoring Smalling by Ole.

I think the time has come to stop trusting the players who have let us down for years.

Smalling and Jones have been here since Fergie, they should be leaders and have cememted the CB role by now.

I don't think Lindelof is the long term plan but is ideal for now before Tuanzebe steps up and is the first choice.

Same applies for players like Lingard, Perreira, Mata, Martial.

You either improve or you will be out the door.

A-man · Oct 21, 2019

FootyGirl88 said:
Like I said from the beginning, Bailly or Tuanzebe would be better partners for Maguire.

UNITED ACADEMY said:
I think what he said was "quite possible". And I think it is possible because you often play a quick centre back next to slow one. Bailly is one of the quickest one out there, perfect match to cover Maguire's weakness. Still young & has time to develop. So far he hasn't been performing. However, may be he will be a different player & can learn something by playing next to a much more experienced centre back like Maguire.

Although, I put Tuanzebe over Bailly in pecking order at the moment.

Bailly would be the worst possible partner for Maguire. Maguire likes to go for it, to leave his spot and attack with a header up the pitch. Then he needs someone to cover for him, someone he can trust. Bailly is totally random and you never know what he will do next. He has poor judgement and often leaves his position without thinking.

Tuanzebe is too early to evaluate after only one match together which also ended up in a loss. What speaks against Tuanzebe is that he also has some of Baillys features. He is a little unaware of what is going on around him and he likes to be where the ball is, not where he should be (this also happens to Maguire sometimes).

devilish said:
In my opinion its the lack of pace. If he's beaten then he'll struggle to recover that yard of space which is a problem. Hence why need a CB whose a defender first and a ball playing CB after.

Much more important is awareness and sniffing out danger. The player who already from the start covers for his partner or react half a second earlier has a big advantage.

Random Task · Oct 21, 2019

Shame for Lindelof who looked like a perfectly able partner for Maguire at the start of the season, but since then his performances have deteriorated to the point where he has become a genuine liability. He's vulnerable in the air and against pacy strikers.

I think Tuanzebe (who has proven me wrong with his albeit limited showings this season) is the best option going forward for the season.

Shimo · Oct 21, 2019

romufc said:
I totally don't get this notion. Ole has seen enough of Smalling to realise he isnt what he wanted. Smalling cannot play possession based football, he is not composed at all on the ball.

How many goals has Smalling scored that makes him a threat?

Don't forget how many penalties he could potentially concede.

How many more points would we have got? We had smalling last season and we werent better defensively.

Also our best run last season under Ole, the pairing was Lindelof and Jones.

Ole doesn't play possession style football either. Yes, Ole wants to follow the Southgate plan when it comes to defenders that are comfortable on the ball but, yet doesn't have the midfield or coaching to actually make it mean much. Which is why in the short term he could have relied on just having Maguire for his ball playing and then transitioned once the team made progress to where you could sacrifice defensive dependability for a bit more guile on the ball.

Giving away penalties? Assuming you are stuck on the old trope of Smalling will be found out by VAR and giving a penalty every game? Even though last season he played in games there was VAR, there was incidents reviewed in which he was involved and he never got called for it. He is playing in a league that they have VAR and hasn't conceded yet. On the flip side, Lindelof has already a few defensive mishaps. Yesterday sheer luck that the ball hit Mane's hand otherwise was done.

Last season, the best pairing was actually Lindelof and Smalling. Smalling was injured and us doing well people said he'd never get back in this dynamic new side. Yet, soon as he did, we not only kept his position but, we looked even better defensively. When our midfield started to fall away during the the latter part of the season, that is when we started to concede regularly again and some DDG mistakes. It wasn't the CBs that were at fault and if anything, it was Lindelof that was starting to have ropey moments towards the end while Smalling stayed is normal consistent self.

Andycoleno9 · Oct 21, 2019

I love it. One is quick other is strong. Lindelof covers Harry in wide space and Harry covers Victor in air. I have a good feeling about it. After Rio- Vida, first time that i am very happy with our defensive pair

Eckers99 · Oct 21, 2019

Been flaky as feck for a few games now, so I'd definitely give Tuanzebe a chance. It'll send a message that sub-par performances won't be tolerated and also give a promising player a run of games. Win-win.

Schmeichel's Cartwheel · Oct 21, 2019

I go off instincts. I'm ok with Maguire, but I get very uncomfortable with Lindelof.

Lets get Koulibaly.

11101 · Oct 21, 2019

Schmeichel's Cartwheel said:
I go off instincts. I'm ok with Maguire, but I get very uncomfortable with Lindelof.

Lets get Koulibaly.

You wouldn't like him then. When hes good hes good, but when hes bad....

Napoli fans accept he will cost them a few goals a season with absolutely brainless moments.

Leftback99 · Oct 21, 2019

It's a shame Tuanzebe got injured just as he had his chance to take Lindelof's place. It's just a matter of time i think.

Handré1990 · Oct 21, 2019

I like the bloke, he’s improved massively, but he’s way to prone to being dominated physically by all sorts. He’s about as aggressive as a kitten. The situation with Mané’s dissallowed goal happens all the time. Because he refuse to, or simply isn’t able to step in and use his body like a proper CB. Just my opinion, but I want Tuanzebe to be groomed as Maguire’s partner right now. Give it a go, if it doesn’t work we should buy a new CB.

romufc · Oct 22, 2019

Shimo said:
Ole doesn't play possession style football either. Yes, Ole wants to follow the Southgate plan when it comes to defenders that are comfortable on the ball but, yet doesn't have the midfield or coaching to actually make it mean much. Which is why in the short term he could have relied on just having Maguire for his ball playing and then transitioned once the team made progress to where you could sacrifice defensive dependability for a bit more guile on the ball.

Giving away penalties? Assuming you are stuck on the old trope of Smalling will be found out by VAR and giving a penalty every game? Even though last season he played in games there was VAR, there was incidents reviewed in which he was involved and he never got called for it. He is playing in a league that they have VAR and hasn't conceded yet. On the flip side, Lindelof has already a few defensive mishaps. Yesterday sheer luck that the ball hit Mane's hand otherwise was done.

Last season, the best pairing was actually Lindelof and Smalling. Smalling was injured and us doing well people said he'd never get back in this dynamic new side. Yet, soon as he did, we not only kept his position but, we looked even better defensively. When our midfield started to fall away during the the latter part of the season, that is when we started to concede regularly again and some DDG mistakes. It wasn't the CBs that were at fault and if anything, it was Lindelof that was starting to have ropey moments towards the end while Smalling stayed is normal consistent self.

We need to stop persisting with player that have let us down in the past. Smalling has been here since Fregie days and has not improved. Lindelof has shown signs of improvement and is much better on the ball.

Have you got the facts to say that was the best pairing? Whereas, I can tell you the first few games under Ole, the game V spurs where we kept clean sheet it was Lindelof and Smalling.

So which games did Lindelof look ropey and Smalling more consistent?

Isotope · Oct 23, 2019

romufc said:
We need to stop persisting with player that have let us down in the past. Smalling has been here since Fregie days and has not improved. Lindelof has shown signs of improvement and is much better on the ball.

Have you got the facts to say that was the best pairing? Whereas, I can tell you the first few games under Ole, the game V spurs where we kept clean sheet it was Lindelof and Smalling.

So which games did Lindelof look ropey and Smalling more consistent?

Defence was the problem last season, but you have to see beyond that. How about the last 4 seasons before that when we always had one of the best defence in the League, and Smalling was our best CB? Last season DDG was on Taibi's level, do we need to use only that season to judge him? That's just silly.

romufc · Oct 23, 2019

Isotope said:
Defence was the problem last season, but you have to see beyond that. How about the last 4 seasons before that when we always had one of the best defence in the League, and Smalling was our best CB? Last season DDG was on Taibi's level, do we need to use only that season to judge him? That's just silly.

You have kind of answered your own question there. Jose came in and signed 2 CB's Baily and Lindelof. But he still wanted to sign one more CB in his final season. Ole came in and one of the first signings was a CB so that should tell you there was no clear dominant CB.

I am not saying Lindelof is brilliant but he compliments Maguire well, I do think Tuanzebe will be first choice soon enough anyway with Lindelof rotated in cup games

ThomasEmil · Oct 23, 2019

Don't think he's the worst performing player in the squad.
When the group grows some confidence and starts winning, I'm pretty sure it's gonna reflect back upon Victor and make him better.

Web of Bissaka · Oct 23, 2019

It's perhaps our best "stable" cb partnership so far... but it's getting "shaky". Tuanzebe are given chances to eventually displace Lindelof I think, most recent injury doesn't help.

Lindelof and Maguire are a lot more consistent in giving stable performances than the likes of erraticities from Bailly, Rojo and Jones.

Would like to see how the partnership between Smalling and Maguire though, alas. Smalling is limited in u know what but defending wise, more reliable than many others plus his aerial threat is what we need in this goal deprived run of matches. Imagine Smalling and Maguire haunting the box in set piece creating problems, and defensively one on one is annoying to play against.

Isotope · Oct 23, 2019

romufc said:
You have kind of answered your own question there. Jose came in and signed 2 CB's Baily and Lindelof. But he still wanted to sign one more CB in his final season. Ole came in and one of the first signings was a CB so that should tell you there was no clear dominant CB.

I am not saying Lindelof is brilliant but he compliments Maguire well, I do think Tuanzebe will be first choice soon enough anyway with Lindelof rotated in cup games

I don't know which part that answered my own question. Jose bought 2 CBs but then realized Smalling should be one of his main guy. Ole came in and bought Maguire, but now everyone realized he chose the wrong CB to partner Maguire. If Smalling was still here, he'd be partnering Maguire in no time.

But anyway, ini any CB partnership, there's always one of the partner who do the "clean up". As you see, Maguire likes to go forward, and Lindelof is not the type of this "clean up" CB. If Tuanzebe can be this type, then the partnership will flourish. Otherwise, it will be back to square one.

romufc · Oct 23, 2019

Isotope said:
I don't know which part that answered my own question. Jose bought 2 CBs but then realized Smalling should be one of his main guy. Ole came in and bought Maguire, but now everyone realized he chose the wrong CB to partner Maguire. If Smalling was still here, he'd be partnering Maguire in no time.

But anyway, ini any CB partnership, there's always one of the partner who do the "clean up". As you see, Maguire likes to go forward, and Lindelof is not the type of this "clean up" CB. If Tuanzebe can be this type, then the partnership will flourish. Otherwise, it will be back to square one.

Everyone realised? I don't think so because Smalling was sold due to his lack of ball playing ability.

It was clear from Pre Season Smalling was the lowest in the pecking order. Bailly, Jones, Rojo were all above him. Tbh it was Ole's call because he didn't fancy Smalling one bit.

He said it from pre season that Tuanzebe has a big future which was an indication that sooner or later he will partner Maguire. He is slowly integrating him into this team. We will see the importance of Maguire when he is rested for a game or two.

morbidsaint · Oct 23, 2019

Lindelof needs to either buff up or get out and leave room for Tuanzebe. He has been pushed aside by men half his size multiple times. And he is not a threat at all in the air anywhere on the pitch.

Beachryan · Oct 23, 2019

Worth at least mentioning that we have the lowest xG conceded in the league, largely behind a Maguire/Lindelof partnership?
4th fewest goals allowed, same as City.

Really don't think the defence is the issue.

2 man midfield · Oct 23, 2019

I’d give him and Tuanzebe the rest of the season to battle it out (CB is the least of our worries at the minute) but I’m not overly convinced by Lindelof. I feel like there’s a player in there somewhere, and he finished last season strongly, but he hasn’t filled me with confidence over the past few months.

AFC NimbleThumb · Oct 23, 2019

Beachryan said:
Worth at least mentioning that we have the lowest xG conceded in the league, largely behind a Maguire/Lindelof partnership?
4th fewest goals allowed, same as City.

Really don't think the defence is the issue.

It’s not the biggest issue but it’s an issue.

If Axel is eventually the answer playing him with Maguire to form a partnership makes sense.

Victor would be a perfect 3rd/4th CB.

Ekeke · Oct 23, 2019

romufc said:
I totally don't get this notion. Ole has seen enough of Smalling to realise he isnt what he wanted. Smalling cannot play possession based football, he is not composed at all on the ball.

How many goals has Smalling scored that makes him a threat?

Don't forget how many penalties he could potentially concede.

How many more points would we have got? We had smalling last season and we werent better defensively.

Also our best run last season under Ole, the pairing was Lindelof and Jones.

More than any CB we've had since Vidic and more than Maguire in any season, apart from last season which is the anomaly.

And Smalling + Lindelof was comfortably our best partnership

Bondi77 · Oct 24, 2019

I thought at the start of the season that Lindelof was a good candidate for the captaincy as he seemed to come to terms with playing in England but I think he has regressed this season as he just seems weak again.
Like a few others have said it is only a matter of time before Axel will be starting with Harry.

Sultan · Oct 24, 2019

Lindeloff was playing alongside defenders who lacked certain qualities last season which made him a standout defender. Playing with Maquire and Bissaka has exposed his weakness. He has been mainly responsible for some of the panic caused in defence this season. Very weak in the air and hardly wins any tussles with strikers. Decent on the ball.

golden_blunder · Oct 24, 2019

Sultan said:
Lindeloff was playing alongside defenders who lacked certain qualities last season which made him a standout defender. Playing with Maquire and Bissaka has exposed his weakness. He has been mainly responsible for some of the panic caused in defence this season. Very weak in the air and hardly wins any tussles with strikers. Decent on the ball.

But not brilliant. Not enough to compensate for his other deficiencies

Maguire and Lindelof are like magnets. One is positive the other is negative

Or as I like to say one is great the other is crap

Godfather · Oct 24, 2019

Should have been Smalling alongside him. I will never understand why he was loaned out instead of Jones or Rojo

elánius · Oct 24, 2019

Its simply not working and I actually expected much more from Magurie - to be a leader, a dirigent, someone who can take our defence to another level, but he is just ok and thats not enough for world record signing.

Lindelof is our worst defender, so he isnt surprise at all. He is slow, weak in aerial and ground duels, he cant read the game, he often hides from defending, he is average on the ball. I actually cant believe he is still there and Smalling, who was our most stable and healthy defender for last 3-4 years was sent away. Smalling should have been a main partner with Maguire and Tuanzebe as our third choice. Sell Lindelof and Rojo, Bailly one last chance and we are fine.

Sultan · Oct 24, 2019

golden_blunder said:
But not brilliant. Not enough to compensate for his other deficiencies

Maguire and Lindelof are like magnets. One is positive the other is negative

Or as I like to say one is great the other is crap

He definitely does not inspire any confidence. I'd much rather Tuanzebe or Jones takes his place if he's ever fit for a few games.

Bondi77 · Oct 24, 2019

Now Jose is on Sky giving his opinion it would be interesting to ask him on Lindelof and Bailly and why he thought they would do well in England, there must be no physical players in the Portuguese league as it is as plain as day that Lindelof does not like the rough stuff.

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