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2019-20 Performances

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5.7 Season Average Rating
Appearances
47
Clean sheets
19
Goals
1
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Anders80

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He'sRaldo said:
It's still the same concept, they score just as many as they need to draw or win, and the defence lets them do it every time.

We all say a few more goals and we would be up the table, well the same goes for clean sheets. Even worse is that we focused on defence this summer, so we should ideally be doing better defensively.
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These kind of opinions almost make me angry. Look, no team in football, ever, concedes zero goals. It's going to happen. We have conceded on average 1 goal per game. Could that be better? Of course, but it's not bad or a major problem.

Like I've said before, the main reason we're doing terribly is the fact that we don't score. We have scored 1.18 goals per game. That's just not enough. Any top team scores way more than that. Top teams, however, don't necessarily concede less than us. Just look at the average scored/conceded per game in the current top 5:

Team / Scored / Conceded
1. Liverpool 2.27 / 0.82
2. Man. City 3.09 / 0.9
3. Leicester 2.45 / 0.73
4. Chelsea 2.27 / 1.55
5. Arsenal 1.45 / 1.36
.
.
13. Man United 1.18 / 1

If we wouldn't count the first match against Chelsea that ended 4-0, which I now consider a fluke, our goal average would be 0.9. That would be the worst goal scoring average in the entire league, excluding Watford. Meanwhile, our conceded average is the 5th best (least conceded).

So all this talk about us having a lousy defense just doesn't hold. Yes, it could be better, but I bet my left arm if you look at the goals other teams have conceded you will also find defender mistakes. That's usually why goals are scored in the first place. 100% clean sheets without mistakes just don't happen. That's almost like expecting attacking players to score 100% of the time.

What we need is an improved midfield and attack with more consistent goal scoring/scorers. We just don't have that right now and that's why we're doing so terribly.
 

He'sRaldo

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Anders80 said:
These kind of opinions almost make me angry. Look, no team in football, ever, concedes zero goals. It's going to happen. We have conceded on average 1 goal per game. Could that be better? Of course, but it's not bad or a major problem.

Like I've said before, the main reason we're doing terribly is the fact that we don't score. We have scored 1.18 goals per game. That's just not enough. Any top team scores way more than that. Top teams, however, don't necessarily concede less than us. Just look at the average scored/conceded per game in the current top 5:

Team / Scored / Conceded
1. Liverpool 2.27 / 0.82
2. Man. City 3.09 / 0.9
3. Leicester 2.45 / 0.73
4. Chelsea 2.27 / 1.55
5. Arsenal 1.45 / 1.36
.
.
13. Man United 1.18 / 1

If we wouldn't count the first match against Chelsea that ended 4-0, which I now consider a fluke, our goal average would be 0.9. That would be the worst goal scoring average in the entire league, excluding Watford. Meanwhile, our conceded average is the 5th best (least conceded).

So all this talk about us having a lousy defense just doesn't hold. Yes, it could be better, but I bet my left arm if you look at the goals other teams have conceded you will also find defender mistakes. That's usually why goals are scored in the first place. 100% clean sheets without mistakes just don't happen. That's almost like expecting attacking players to score 100% of the time.

What we need is an improved midfield and attack with more consistent goal scoring/scorers. We just don't have that right now and that's why we're doing so terribly.
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I can't disagree that we don't score enough. I just also think that for the scrappy games where we just have to score 1 or 2 against a bus-parking side, this defence can't be relied on to hold on to a result there, and that's a big disadvantage for us. Especially now that the table is starting to form a bit and confidence is necessary to go on a run.

I will say though, that we're lacking a good DM which is an essential part of a good defence, so I'm having to hold off judgement on the players until we get one.
 
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Ekeke

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Litch said:
Are you suggesting the Italian league is more competitive than the prem? I'm guessing 'sometimes' as you describe it is more than 2-11 then. You should have been more specific. Great to see that Smalling who the majority on here didn't see has Utd quality, not sure but given he went to Roma, not many in the Prem seem to think was any good either YET the competitive Italian league he's made such a difference that they are now 3rd. Roma should have signed Jones too then as maybe they'd have been top.....
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Do you know what competitive means?

The league has plenty of teams that can and have competed with Roma. They came 6th last season so 5 teams went into this season expecting to be above them

If he was playing for Juventus who win the league each season, fair enough thats a much easier job. But hes not. He's playing with just another pretty good team who may or may not do well. He's helping them do well so far this season.
 

BlueHaze

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MyOnlySolskjaer said:
He gets protected too much. Smalling genuinely had a better season than him last season.
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Unpopular opinion but I think Smalling is better than him. I was pissed when Ole extended with Victor. He's a chicken that nearly can't win feck all in the air.
 

BlueHaze

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MyOnlySolskjaer said:
The issue is that we have so much more to deal with that he will probably be fine for a season or 2.
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I know but in english football a CB has to be decent in the air, it's an absolute must. Palace 1-2 win this season against us is a prime example of how criminally useless he is where he lost an aerial challenge against Schlupp that's like 10cm shorter than victor which led up to their 1st goal. I'd rather Tuanzebe was first choice to partner Harry, or even Smalling.
 

Meep

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Made a couple more good forward passes last game against Bournemouth. I like his style of play but sometimes he has to be more agressive earlier on in mainly when he is facing De Gea. He is great at being there early and putting pressure on forward before the have control but if he misses that spot he sometimes gets a little to careful. Still thinks he can be a long time CB at united. Working on heading under pressure and putting more agression on early and he will be really good if he can adjust in those areas.
 

MikeKing

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Meep said:
Made a couple more good forward passes last game against Bournemouth. I like his style of play but sometimes he has to be more agressive earlier on in mainly when he is facing De Gea. He is great at being there early and putting pressure on forward before the have control but if he misses that spot he sometimes gets a little to careful. Still thinks he can be a long time CB at united. Working on heading under pressure and putting more agression on early and he will be really good if he can adjust in those areas.
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I love it when he does come away with the ball, and when defending deeper he reads well to intercept and attack right when the attacker takes the first touch. The thing about him is that he doesn't have the physicality, strength or just long legs to get around players to win the ball, so when he's not sitting deep and plays higher up the field he tends to play on the back foot. Attackers have more space there and isn't rattled as easily so he just can't get close early enough, maybe he can be more aggressive as you proposed? I've seen him try to be more aggressive too but it leads to free kicks or yellow cards.

I'm pretty certain he wont be able to make his style sustainable in the long run in the PL, he'll be forced to play on the back foot unless he adjust his game and becomes stronger, quicker etc. Blind was not either of those but he was really good and aggressive, but its because we crowded the midfield when defending high so spaces were tight. Maybe Lindelof can prove himself useful higher up the pitch in better conditions, similarly to Blind but I just don't see the big fuzz about him.

Those passes he plays, few and far between, not really that impressive considering we're supposedly set up for that to be an effective tactic.
 

Isotope

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He's not a bad CB, possibly our POTY last season, and can still improve. But Maguire is not the right type of partner to bring out the best of him.
 
Man Utd 3:1 Brighton

BigBebe

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Lindelof is beginning to really worry me.

He is ok with the ball at his feet but what I want from my central defender is that he can be dominant in the box. Lindelof often seems to go missing when a cross comes in and as a result, we are very susceptible to set pieces and have been fortunate a few times not to be punished.

Not convinced he is the answer.
 

A-man

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Think had a good game, both on the ground and in the air. It is clear he is more adventurous in his passing the last two games and hit more long balls and more advanced passes. Also fails more passes, as a consequence. Anyway, solid today, but it feels as he was never really tested.
 

bond19821982

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This "his ability to pass from back" theory is a myth. Yes, he can dribble up couple of steps with the ball but the pass after that is quite bad.
 

He'sRaldo

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Was good today. I think there's hope for him yet, just needs to improve the physical side.

Check out minute 2:04 - 2:30 of the video


Maybe the coaches need to do the same for Lindelof.
 
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Based Adnan

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He was good today. Good clearances both on the floor and in the air. Had a lovely ball over the top for Rashford as well, solid game.
 

Based Adnan

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BigBebe said:
Lindelof is beginning to really worry me.

He is ok with the ball at his feet but what I want from my central defender is that he can be dominant in the box. Lindelof often seems to go missing when a cross comes in and as a result, we are very susceptible to set pieces and have been fortunate a few times not to be punished.
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He had 5 clearances today, 3 more than Maguire and more than anyone else today.
 

Rozay

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Personally think Smalling and Maguire would be a far more dominant pairing.
 

A-man

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bond19821982 said:
This "his ability to pass from back" theory is a myth. Yes, he can dribble up couple of steps with the ball but the pass after that is quite bad.
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Take a look at the first goal yesterday. Instead of passing sideways or hoofing his way out of pressure, Lindelof dribbles past the attacker, moves and passes forward which sets up for the attack. Small things that often go unnoticed, but most likely one of the reasons why he is Ole’s first choice at RCB.
 

Annihilate Now!

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A-man said:
Take a look at the first goal yesterday. Instead of passing sideways or hoofing his way out of pressure, Lindelof dribbles past the attacker, moves and passes forward which sets up for the attack. Small things that often go unnoticed, but most likely one of the reasons why he is Ole’s first choice at RCB.
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I mean that's the most enthusiastic and slightly over the top way to describe this


:lol:
 

Charles89

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Annihilate Now! said:
I mean that's the most enthusiastic and slightly over the top way to describe this
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But there were moments where Maguire was dwelling on the ball at the back and Lindelof hurried him along to start the next attack, which I was impressed with, he knows there's an urgency to keep attacking even when we were in front.
 
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Shimo

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Annihilate Now! said:
I mean that's the most enthusiastic and slightly over the top way to describe this


:lol:
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I've disagreed with A-Man's point of views quite a lot especially around this whole ball playing CB but, there is actually nothing funny about what he pointed out there. That's exactly the kind of comfort and ability we want to permeate through the entire team when we are being pressed. 17 seconds from when he received the ball at the edge of our box to the goal being scored and that starts with Lindelof doing what he did. Would have resulted in a chance even quicker had Andreas put in Martial earlier.
 

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Shimo said:
I've disagreed with A-Man's point of views quite a lot especially around this whole ball playing CB but, there is actually nothing funny about what he pointed out there. That's exactly the kind of comfort and ability we want to permeate through the entire team when we are being pressed. 17 seconds from when he received the ball at the edge of our box to the goal being scored and that starts with Lindelof doing what he did. Would have resulted in a chance even quicker had Andreas put in Martial earlier.
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Oh come on, he's hardly reinvented defending... He's brought the ball down, ran a bit and passed it 5 yards in the direction he was facing. I've seen Phil bloody Jones do that exact same thing numerous times.
 

Based Adnan

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A defender who isn't comfortable with the ball either heads it back to De Gea or just hoofs it there. I'm glad we have a defender comfortable enough to bring the ball down and play.
 

A-man

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Annihilate Now! said:
I mean that's the most enthusiastic and slightly over the top way to describe this


:lol:
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The key here, and the difference to someone who is not comfortable on the ball, is how he reacts to the pressure put on him by the attacker. The easy way is a sideway pass - would have slowed down and the counter attack would not have happened. The other easy way is to clear it like Williams- with the risk the other team get back the ball. Instead as a CB who is comfortable with the ball under pressure, he played it through and that is the starting point for a counter attack.

It is not Lindelof’s goal, it is a team effort. But the goal hadn’t happened if he didn’t play his way through the press. There are other more obvious examples of this but I picked this because it resulted in a goal.
 

A-man

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Annihilate Now! said:
Oh come on, he's hardly reinvented defending... He's brought the ball down, ran a bit and passed it 5 yards in the direction he was facing. I've seen Phil bloody Jones do that exact same thing numerous times.
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Why would he need to invent something? Rooney’s bicycle kick against City was amazing despite the fact I have seen bicycle kicks before.
 

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A-man said:
Why would he need to invent something? Rooney’s bicycle kick against City was amazing despite the fact I have seen bicycle kicks before.
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Ya'll are acting like Lindelof did something brilliant here. He controlled a ball, moved forward which wasn't that hard considering the press was coming from the side and passed it 5 yards forward... it's something we've seen Rojo, Jones, Smalling, pretty much any center back do.

I mean someone suggested a lesser defender would head that back to the keeper - something that would actually be significantly harder to do. And you said the easy way is a sideways pass - despite the fact there is actually nobody to the side to pass it too initially.
 

Shimo

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Annihilate Now! said:
Oh come on, he's hardly reinvented defending... He's brought the ball down, ran a bit and passed it 5 yards in the direction he was facing. I've seen Phil bloody Jones do that exact same thing numerous times.
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Didn't suggest that he did reinvent defending but, there was nothing to laugh about in saying that it was a good bit of play by him that helped instigate the attack. How often do we lament the fact that when we are pressed we don't maintain possession well, or the fact that we can't make passes between the lines.

I think Lindelof is a liability defensively still but, for the reason Ole wants him there, with some of his ball playing ability, that's been on display the last couple games and that was an example of where it helped lead to a goal.
 

A-man

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Annihilate Now! said:
Ya'll are acting like Lindelof did something brilliant here. He controlled a ball, moved forward which wasn't that hard considering the press was coming from the side and passed it 5 yards forward... it's something we've seen Rojo, Jones, Smalling, pretty much any center back do.

I mean someone suggested a lesser defender would head that back to the keeper - something that would actually be significantly harder to do. And you said the easy way is a sideways pass - despite the fact there is actually nobody to the side to pass it too initially.
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Someone claimed it was a myth he can play from the back, I showed a recent example. I have seen other do that, too, doesn’t change anything. I am pretty sure this is how he wants our CBs to play, and something we didn’t see last year. I am also sure that this ability is one of the main reasons he is playing as Ole’s first choice.

If you pay closer attention to it you will see that Lindelof playing his way out from pressure instead of clearing it, has started and will start many counter attacks.
 

Ekeke

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A-man said:
Someone claimed it was a myth he can play from the back, I showed a recent example. I have seen other do that, too, doesn’t change anything. I am pretty sure this is how he wants our CBs to play, and something we didn’t see last year. I am also sure that this ability is one of the main reasons he is playing as Ole’s first choice.

If you pay closer attention to it you will see that Lindelof playing his way out from pressure instead of clearing it, has started and will start many counter attacks.
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I also saw him head the ball straight to an opponent against Brighton when he wasnt under pressure. So its a mixed bag
 

kidbob

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serxyo said:
2019/20 golden ball in Sweden. Deserved? Edit: his second.
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I don't know enough about Swedish football to know if it's deserved but largely he's be grand for the last 18 months. The worrying thing is the defensive lapses and I personally believe that Axel, if given time, gives you equal calmness on the ball but more defensive ability and pace. In saying that though Lindelof would be one of the last defenders I'd want to see leave the club. My ideal starting pair would be Maguire and Axel and I'd keep Lindelof and Smalling as back up. The rest can go.

However I don't think he's a lost cause because I don't think he's bad in the air (ala Bailly) I think he just needs to become tougher when going for a ball in certain situations.
 
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