Klopp's at the wheel | PL winners 2019/20

TheReligion

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Klopp would be much more likeable if he wasn't such a terrible and sore loser. Urghh it's such an ugly quality.
 

Random Task

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What an incredible team they are.

Should have handed them the title after the game ended today. I mean, why wait another 7-8 months?
 

TheReligion

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So everybody else in England (bar city) and Europe sucks that’s the reasoning? That just sounds real bitter and small time tbh.
Bitter and small time? That's Klopps post game interview today!

Let's be honest are Barca, Real, Bayern etc at their best currently? This is a prime opportunity for a team to dominate and I'm gutted United are stuck where they are at the moment.

Quick example. When United were last dominating under SAF we made several CL finals but were up against one of the best Barcelona teams EVER. Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets, Messi, Puyol...

At the moment many of Europes giants are in transition and Liverpool are taking their chance. Fair play to them. They aren't a GREAT team though in my opinion, right place, right time. Nothing more.
 

Josep Dowling

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Bitter and small time? That's Klopps post game interview today!

Let's be honest are Barca, Real, Bayern etc at their best currently? This is a prime opportunity for a team to dominate and I'm gutted United are stuck where they are at the moment.

Quick example. When United were last dominating under SAF we made several CL finals but were up against one of the best Barcelona teams EVER. Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets, Messi, Puyol...

At the moment many of Europes giants are in transition and Liverpool are taking their chance. Fair play to them. They aren't a GREAT team though in my opinion, right place, right time. Nothing more.
I think the same. Take Van Dijk out that back 5 and are they really that great?

Klopp gets so much out of players. Even shit like Origi and Lallana turn up for him.
 

El Zoido

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Klopp is an unbelievable prick. Can’t wait until he fecks off.
 

Fosu-Mens

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1 grey decision against them and it is all blaming that? What about playing Henderson as a right winger? Or playing him at all? The only reason he plays is because of him being the captain. Reckon Klopp wishes he could just give it to VVD without causing a big fuzz.

With the quality MUFC had on the pitch today, Liverpool should have been able to win this game with or without Salah. Can only blame himself for their tactical approach and how they struggle to break down defences. That's the reason why Pep is far above the rest of the managers in the world.
 

TheReligion

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I think the same. Take Van Dijk out that back 5 and are they really that great?

Klopp gets so much out of players. Even shit like Origi and Lallana turn up for him.
They are obviously a good team, and much better than they have been for many years, however I do think they are making the most of a very weak spot in European football.
 

matherto

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I wonder if that point will be a deciding factor this season like it was last year.

They were abysmal for vast periods but they nearly won at the end when they started playing like themselves. Can only hope City match them everywhere else then beat them home and away and start hammering teams in the process otherwise the title is their's.
 

Dr. StrangeHate

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Has any other manager taken a team as bad as Liverpool were and made them the best team in the world by himself. He did this whilst losing his best players every year. Other than SAF I can't think of a manager who has changed the fortune of a club singlehandedly this much.
 

giorno

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Has any other manager taken a team as bad as Liverpool were and made them the best team in the world by himself. He did this whilst losing his best players every year. Other than SAF I can't think of a manager who has changed the fortune of a club singlehandedly this much.
He kind of did an even more impressive job with Dortmund

Simeone at Atletico Madrid

Conte at juventus?
 

padzilla

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The question is can they sustain this insanely brilliant start? I don't think I've ever seen a team so much fitter and faster than opposition teams for long periods. Whatever they are being given is incredible and by that I mean coaching and tactical advice, they look light years ahead of anyone and it breaks my heart to say that.
 

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Has any other manager taken a team as bad as Liverpool were and made them the best team in the world by himself. He did this whilst losing his best players every year. Other than SAF I can't think of a manager who has changed the fortune of a club singlehandedly this much.
Well they did nearly win the PL a few years before with Rodgers. How do we define 'singlehandedly' and 'by himself' though? He's done a terrific job but he has also spent big in achieving, it seems, a league and a CL. How would you view this differently to, say, Jose winning 3 league titles at Chelsea for example? Or, Simeone winning La Liga and 2 Europas (?) at Atletico (have they won anything else?). Or Conte in Juve who made that club a huge force once again?
 

DRM

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1 europa league final
2 x CL finals
1 x CL trophy
1 x PL trophy

What an impressive time he's had/having at Liverpool.
 

Tom Cato

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Didn't we have a thread like this last season right before they started losing games for sport? :D
 

Dr. StrangeHate

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He kind of did an even more impressive job with Dortmund

Simeone at Atletico Madrid

Conte at juventus?
He didn't make Dortmund best in the world.

Simone maybe when they won the league and those CL final appearances.

Conte didn't make them best in the world.
 

Dr. StrangeHate

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While we're at it, what about Pep at Barcelona?
He created the best team to have ever played the game. I don't think they were as bad as Liverpool when Pep took over and he did have Messi. Pep along with Klopp are in a league of their own at the moment that is for sure.
 

Josh 76

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Has any other manager taken a team as bad as Liverpool were and made them the best team in the world by himself. He did this whilst losing his best players every year. Other than SAF I can't think of a manager who has changed the fortune of a club singlehandedly this much.
Losing his best players every year ?
 

Dr. StrangeHate

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Well they did nearly win the PL a few years before with Rodgers. How do we define 'singlehandedly' and 'by himself' though? He's done a terrific job but he has also spent big in achieving, it seems, a league and a CL. How would you view this differently to, say, Jose winning 3 league titles at Chelsea for example? Or, Simeone winning La Liga and 2 Europas (?) at Atletico (have they won anything else?). Or Conte in Juve who made that club a huge force once again?
Their place under Rodgers was helped by Suarez and Sterling which had left by the time Klopp joined. Other than Milner I don't think any of that team remains so this is totally Klopp's team that is what makes it so impressive.

He is going against a whole country's resources and the only other world class manager in the world that is very impressive. Jose's Chelsea is a good shout. He created an almost unstoppable force at the time that was pretty close to the best team in the world. Same with Simone. Conte didn't make Juve the best team in the world.
 

B20

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Their place under Rodgers was helped by Suarez and Sterling which had left by the time Klopp joined. Other than Milner I don't think any of that team remains so this is totally Klopp's team that is what makes it so impressive.
Milner
Henderson
Lallana
Firmino
Gomez
Lovren
Origi

Milner, Gomez, Origi and Firmino only worked for a couple of months under Rodgers though.
 

Dr. StrangeHate

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Milner
Henderson
Lallana
Firmino
Gomez
Lovren
Origi

Milner, Gomez, Origi and Firmino only worked for a couple of months under Rodgers though.
You are making me look bad. Other than Firminho is anyone a starter.
 

ExecutionerWasp001

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The question is can they sustain this insanely brilliant start? I don't think I've ever seen a team so much fitter and faster than opposition teams for long periods. Whatever they are being given is incredible and by that I mean coaching and tactical advice, they look light years ahead of anyone and it breaks my heart to say that.
The problem is they can afford a drop off from there current level & should still win the league comfortably. City were supposed to be the challengers but are in meltdown & looking like they could finish 3rd or 4th in a 2 horse race. If they fall 12 pts behind would expect them to concentrate on the CL & Domestic Cups. Chelsea & Leicester will be happy with top 4, it's probably a step too far for them to win the league this season. The rest of the league are atrocious & can't put pressure on the teams around them let alone the top 4.

After 30 years they have peaked at the opportune moment. The PL is as poor as it's been for a long time & the European Super Clubs are fading. Wouldn't surprise me if they do a PL & CL double. The only hope is that they field a weakened side in the FA Cup so they don't match our treble.
 

B20

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Not intended to WUM, but this is a fascinating read for Liverpool fans, but it also gives some interesting insight into how Klopp has evolved his style to control games. There is a good comparison with Man United in the piece and makes sense based on the United games I've watched

https://tomkinstimes.com/2020/02/how-liverpool-can-dominate-in-all-game-states/
Normally don't have much time for Tompkins (and his "I anecdotally predicted someone would ship 5 past Brazil at the wc", just blergh). He's longwinded and has had us winning the league by numbers any day now for 15 years.

There is some interesting stuff with xG dependent on the scoreline though and how it reflects control of games.

City's drop massively when they go a goal behind, our highest xG is when we are a goal behind (we've yet to be more than one goal behind this season). And also spend much less time being behind than city (17% vs 7%).

City really rake up their xG when they are either behind by more than one goal or ahead by more than one (ie the least consequential phases of a game), which is the stage of the game where our xG output is the lowest as the three points are in the bag by then.
 

giorno

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They also have a higher xGD than you at even score though

The article makes some good interesting and even good points but them ultimately his explanation is liverpool players have just been really good at finishing and preventing opponents from finishing so they haven't been lucky

It's basically a guy taking some interesting, meaningful numbers and then turning them into an excuse to have a wank

In conclusion: yes, the xG models aren't perfect and there's stuff they're missing about liverpool

But also liverpool have had a number of close calls and in many of those were saved by poor finishing on the opppnents part - that is luck
 

Halds

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But also liverpool have had a number of close calls and in many of those were saved by poor finishing on the opppnents part - that is luck
The poor quality of an opponent isn't luck. That's just poor quality.