Good try trying to worm your way out of that, but you failed. The poster said, in his words, "weren't particularly good" when describing Roo and Drogs as PL goalscorers. Please explain to the forum how Rooney, the second highest scorer in PL history (comfortably too) wasn't even a particularly good scorer. Name me a top league in Europe where the guy in 2nd place in the scoring stats in the last 30 years is not even considered a "particularly good scorer". I'll await.
Romelu Lukaku | Mourinho Part III | Roma watch
- Thread starter Samid
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You are just too thick to understand, just stick to reading wiki pages.
You just can't understand any argument beyond 'career total'
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I would say just stick to facts but you cant even get that right. You said Rooney got 27 goals in 34 games in 09/10. Wrong season. He got that in 11/12. He actually got 26 in 32 in 09/10. Anything else you want to make up?
fecking hell
.Yeah he got 26 goals in 32 games and that was the only season he played as lead striker, in 2011-12 he played behind the striker. It was a simple mistake checking the seasons. When you are so desperate, you start to clutch the straws.
What a pointless poster.
Indeed. When you are desperate, you start to make things up. But you are right, Rooney wasn't a "particularly good" PL goalscorer.fecking hell
Yeah he got 26 goals in 32 games and that was the only season he played as lead striker, in 2011-12 he played behind the striker. It was a simple mistake checking the seasons. When you are so desperate, you start to clutch the straws.
What a pointless poster.
The lunacy.
Rooney averaged around 14 league goals per season, that wasn't good for a goalscorers but it was good for Rooney as he was more than just goal scorer. This is the point so many are trying to make but for some even simple things are very hard to understand.
Start to make things up?
It was a simple mistake, where I checked 2011-12 season instead of 2008-09 season. It wasn't even a big difference, 1 more goal and 2 more games. Your desperation is becoming pathetic now, as usual. Btw, was it you who completely made up a stat to shit on Martial and Rashford? Saying he played nearly 98-99% of total league mins under Jose? Yeah, it was you.
Very simple question, was Giggs better goal scorer than RVN in PL?
Aye and if this donkey doesn't score, he offers less than a 4. We are far far better without him and with Martial
Its not lunacy, its fairly accurate to say that Rooney was not a top class goal scorer, but his game was never just about scoring goals. He got over 30 goals in a single season twice in his career playing in relatively dominant teams in the respective league. In the two seasons he managed to stay fit for the whole season, he nailed it twice.
Similarly Totti was not a great goal scorer either, still a great scorer of goals. Del Piero the same.
Simply, if Rooney was an out and out striker like RVP or RVN, he'd play there. Lukaku plays there because its the only point on the field where he can get away with having a rubbish touch or shit hold up play and get away with it while contributing.
Oh lord, you didnt even follow the discussion. Wayne Rooney is the second highest goalscorer in PL history, or in other words, the last 30 years, which is close to how long the PL has been going. Name me another player, in one of Europe's top leagues who has scored the second most amount of goals (total in that period), who isnt considered a particularly good scorer? Here's a pointer. In Italy, its Di Natale. And France, really, a top league?Nicholas Pepe, Lille OSC 18/19 - 20 goals
too easy
No one on here has argued that Rooney, Totti or Del Piero were great goalscorers, so thats a moot point. The poster said that Rooney wasn't even a "particularly good" one. That sounds absurd to me. He's obviously not Titi Henry, Shearer, Kun level, but not even a good scorer?
I always knew Benteke was better goal scorer than Suarez, as he scored 70 league goals compared to Suarez's 69.
Suarez played 3.5 seasons whereas Benteke played around 8 or 9 but who cares about the logic, it's the total that's important.
Suarez played 3.5 seasons whereas Benteke played around 8 or 9 but who cares about the logic, it's the total that's important.
Not only are you saying that Rooney wasnt even a good PL goalscorer, youre now comparing him to Christian Benteke.
All so you can shit on Lukaku. Oh, the levels people will go to.
If only Lukaku had a good first touch and you had a brain
Oh, is that the best you have? You got stumped when i asked you how the 2nd highest goalscorer in PL history wasnt a "particularly good one". Your answer, something about Benteke. Youve truly embarrassed yourself. Didnt you also agree that Vardy wasnt a good goalscorer either? He has a worse ratio than the atrocious Lukaku. Fowler, his ratio was worse. I guess he wasnt even "good" either.If only Lukaku had a good first touch and you had a brain
If you can't connect the dots and see why I used benteke and Suarez then you are proving my below post.
I remember saying you haven't watched Vardy if you think he doesn't offer anything except goals. That's the main argument, something which you are desperately trying to change by clutching at straws. Rooney, Drogba, even Firmino are all players who offers more than goals, their goal scoring record even if it averages around 14-15 league goals per year, it's good considering they are more than just goals. For limited player for Lukaku, who is all about goals, 15 league goals per season isn't good enough.If only Lukaku had a good first touch and you had a brain
It's not really hard to understand.
Regarding Rooney, I gave benefit of doubt and assumed you would get it, my bad. Rooney is second top scorer as he played 16 seasons in PL. That's a career average of 13 league goals per season, anyone who can think apart from reading records or anyone who watched him play would tell you that Rooney wasn't good/very good/particularly good goal scorer but he was great player who was more than just goals, so his record was brilliant.
I think I have repeated same points for about 10 times and then others also made same point, if by this point you didn't get it you will never get it.
Also nice to see you dodging the simple question. Is Giggs better goalscorer than RVN?
You know you can be a good goalscorer, ala Drogba and Rooney, and offer other things to your team? Its not an either or situation.
So 2 things,
1, you really think if i put a poll on this site asking if Rooney is a good PL goalscorer the answer wouldn't be yes by the majority of people? Not great but just good?
2, you still haven't answered my question about Vardy but i know why. Is Vardy a good PL goalscorer? Please, dont tell me you're not gonna say no, please? Lunacy levels will have reached a new peak if you do.
How about just stop derailing this thread?
Since you are not getting the point, I will just post on Vardy, he didn't even play every game as striker in his first PL season.
I think it was from 2015-16 season when he played all games as striker, before that they had Ulloa, Nugent playing as striker and few games Vardy played as striker.
From 2015-16 season, he has 86 goals in 153 games (if I have added correctly), that's 0.56 goals per game which is far better than Lukaku. Apart from this he offers lot more than just goals, so in short, Vardy is much better than Lukaku. If you include the few games he played as striker, that's 88 goals in 171 games, which is 0.51 goals per game, again which is better than Lukaku's.
It's never just black or white, you have to take everything into context. In this case, Vardy is better player and better goal scorer than Lukaku. Player averaging close to 19 league goals is a good goal scorer, without any doubt. I said Lukaku is also good goal scorer but not good enough for a limited player.
Edit: Saw @Carolina Red post now.
I didnt derail the thread. All i said was Lukaku was a very good goalscorer at PL level, and a few people on here got triggered by it. They decided to bring in the comparisons to Shearer, Ruud and all the other past strikers. Dont get sucked into their narrative. Lukaku is a very limited striker, and isnt top tier, and he wasnt right for Man Utd, nor any other PL top team possibly (though we'll never know).
However, i stand by my original point, i dont get blinded by hate for any player to acknowledge their achievements.
Would it help if I phrased it as a statement?
Probably.
But if inter win the scudetto and we finished midtable, it doesn't matter who's the better player.
Rooney was a good goal scorer who ended up with a not particularly good/average scoring record when broken down to average/season because he had to service better goal scorers in the team for most of his time here, and often took on extra defensive duties on top of that.
When he got to play as the focal point of the attack at his peak, between 09 and 12, his number (G+A) shits all over Lukaku’s
When he got to play as the focal point of the attack at his peak, between 09 and 12, his number (G+A) shits all over Lukaku’s
Agreed. Lukaku is good at finding the right spaces inside the box, a decent finisher and he will bang them in vs the smaller side, but thats about it. His link up play is poor/mediocre, his record vs the big sides is beyond terrible and his defensive work rate is awful.
When hes not in form and not scoring goals hes a complete passenger. There is a reason Chelsea sold him to Everton and there is a reason we sold him as well.
Please can people not use Rooney and Lukaku in the same sentence? It’s insulting to Wazza.
History will remember Wayne Rooney as a, at the very least a good, and probably to most, a very good PL goalscorer, due to his 200+ PL goals. This is how he is seen by most football people, United or otherwise. Trying to downgrade it to not "particularly good" for the sake of an argument is ridiculous. Yes, he had a great all round game to go with it, but the former has nothing to do with the latter.
Back to Lukaku. I do believe under the right circumstances and sytem, he can be a very useful striker (he proved it at Everton and West Brom). Is he top notch? No, his game is too limited. Would i consider him a viable option for a top team? No. He struggles against the better teams. But his situation at Inter is interesting. Inter are a top team in Italy and he could propel them (unlikely) to the title with 20 to 30 league goals. Doubt that would change the narrative on here but it would be a major filip for him.
At the end of his career, he will likely end up with over 400 career and 70 to 80 international career goals. He needs just 17 goals at age 26 to become the 5th best International goalscorer of all time amongst Europeans.
Those are scary good numbers. People on here will still find a way to call them average somehow, you just know it.
It’s subjective, so you’ll just end up going around in circles.
Personally, I think a goal contribution (assists counted) of roughly 1 in 2 is quite underwhelming in the current period for a supposedly elite attacker, as defenders have been penalized more and more due to the rules change. The two freaks aside, most of the top forwards in the game posted numbers somewhere between 0.6-0.7, or 2 in 3. For someone like Lukaku who has glaring weaknesses in his game, that’s where people take issues with him. You have to score at Gerd Muller’s rate to be considered world class with his overall contribution. An example would be Mario Gomez, scored a lot but still eventually got frozen out of Bayern because the rest of his game isn’t made up for by his goals.
Now about Rooney, I don’t know why you are arguing against United fans on his records. Yes, it looks impressive if you just look at the top line numbers, but he has a long ass career here to begin with and also quite unfortunate for him (on the personal statistics front) that Fergie played him first as a second fiddle to Ronaldo and later on he had to often supply our other forwards (Berbatov, Hernandez, Welbeck for a few months,RvP) at his peak. I think he was a good goal scorer who was hampered by circumstances but wouldn’t balk at someone thinking otherwise because 13/14 league goals per season at a club like United isn’t an impressive number for a CF (which, as a caveat, he’s not for most of the time).
Anyway I’m not really interested in this discussion any further. I’ve said previously in this thread that he is a good goalscorer, and the point @roonster09 or @JPRouve made, along others, isn’t that he’s not, but he’s not good enough a scorer for the type of player he is, which you doesn’t seem to disagree. You will always find a few people with extreme opinions on fora as big as this so singling then out for attention seems like arguing for arguing’s sake.
Youve misrepresented what ive been saying, and some others on here also. You make some good points. But you seem to think i disagree. Literally in my previous post i talk about how limited Lukaku is and how he's not ideal for the bigger club as he goes missing against the best teams. He can do it for the smaller teams for sure, West Brom and Everton are testament to that. We agree on that.
And you are wrong, there are a few on here that argue that he is not even a good scorer. Thats what i have disagreed with.
Mario Gomez wasnt a great analogy. Yes he was a very limited forward, but nobody ever doubted his prowess as a goalscorer, like they do here with Lukaku. He was a goalscoring machine at his peak.
Also, you contradicted yourself regarding Roo. You said that 13 to 14 league goals wasnt impressive for a CF, then go on to say that he wasnt a CF most of the time anyway. So you made your own point moot.
Man Utd fans across the globe if asked whether Roo was a good PL goalscorer, im in no doubt the overwhelming majority would say yes.
This threadThis thread is just like groundhog day.
Lukaku is shite. Does not offer anything apart from goals.
*Argues using goalscoring stats
Lukaku is shite. Does not offer anything apart from goals.
*Argues using goalscoring stats
Lukaku is shite. Does not offer anything apart from goals.
*Argues using goalscoring stats
Lukaku is shite. Does not offer anything apart from goals.
*Argues using goalscoring stats
Lukaku's career goalscoring stats for clubs and country speak for themselves.
Lukaku is shite. Does not offer anything apart from goals.
*Argues using goalscoring stats*
They do. Cue anger and bitterness.
With Lukaku we ended in second place. With him being in and out the team we ended 6th. Without him we are 7th and much worse. The evidence is there to suggest that we miss him or a replacement of equal quality.
Yes, it was all down to him.
He’s a virus that we are well rid of. Thank god Inter took him off of our hands.
We don’t miss him - he would have had a negative effect on the team if still here.
Inter fan here
Lukaku played 14 of 15 matches this season
11 in the league 3 in CL
he has this score
9 goals in the ligue 0 goals in Champions League ( where the game is tougher )
3 of the goals scored in the ligue are penalties
if you remove the penalties he has scored 1 goal every 220 minutes
3 tap ins, 1 header , 1 decent goal , 1 goal outside the box
overall his numbers look decent but he played like crap , already missed at least 7 or 8 easy goals
Lukaku played 14 of 15 matches this season
11 in the league 3 in CL
he has this score
9 goals in the ligue 0 goals in Champions League ( where the game is tougher )
3 of the goals scored in the ligue are penalties
if you remove the penalties he has scored 1 goal every 220 minutes
3 tap ins, 1 header , 1 decent goal , 1 goal outside the box
overall his numbers look decent but he played like crap , already missed at least 7 or 8 easy goals
We have not lost that much apart from him. I guess Matic, Lingard and Mata have dropped off in quality. Pogba too I guess although he is very much up and down. Smalling is a miss too, but Maguire has done well.
I am sure we would be higher up the table with Lukaku in our team since we are not scoring enough goals.
Martial is not good enough to play 90 minutes every game, so his fewer minutes are understandable compared to Lukaku's. But I asked this question earlier but got no response, let's assume Martial still has 4 years on his contract to run, in your estimation, how much would United get for him on the market at the moment?
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