A serious look at Mauricio Pochettino

Untd55

Full Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2018
Messages
1,516
If poch can't win or get the team he has worked with for four season to play consistently then there isn't much hope for him to turn our squad around.. some of there results have been really poor this season.

One point ahead of us and they've added to there squad and kept there best players.
Conflicts make a lot of difference. There are obviously player-board conflicts at Tottenham, regarding the contracts. Manager-board conflict looks like it started last season, which would be hard to fix once that appears. Once conflicts appear, they almost never get resolved.

I think it has just gone stale at Tottenham. I think Pochettino would be fine here; it is just there is nothing he can actually do at Tottenham to fix it.
 

lysglimt

Full Member
Scout
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
15,109
No Spurs-fans want him - but there are still some smart United-fans who Think he would be the right person to replace OGS.
 

cjj

Full Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2017
Messages
697
Supports
Spurs
Out of interest, is the "stale squad" thing a relatively new excuse?

I feel like I'd not heard it before, but it's being throw about like confetti as an excuse for Pochettino
 

JPRouve

can't stop thinking about balls - NOT deflategate
Scout
Joined
Jan 31, 2014
Messages
65,354
Location
France
Out of interest, is the "stale squad" thing a relatively new excuse?

I feel like I'd not heard it before, but it's being throw about like confetti as an excuse for Pochettino
No, it's a theory that has been mentioned by SAF among others. Basically you need to rejuvenate the core of the team every 3-4 years and it makes sense because that's about the maximum that you can get from the exact same group of players, you rarely see teams perform longer than that at their best.
 

Champagne Football

New Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2015
Messages
4,187
Location
El Beatle
Since the start of the season there has been leaks to the press, supposedly from the players that he wants out. A few reports that all is not right with him.

I wouldn't be surprised if Levy broke certain promises to him that has upset him to the point of wanting out.

Pochettino is a modern innovative coach. It's not like he's some park-the-bus dinosaur who's methods have been figured out be everyone else, hence the slump.

He's still the stand-out candidate to take over at Utd. But I hope Ole can land a playmaker and right winger in January, as I'd like to see what Ole can do with his own squad, and not half his team and half the previous managers.
 

Judas

Open to offers
Joined
Jun 28, 2010
Messages
35,964
Location
Where the grass is greener.
No Spurs-fans want him - but there are still some smart United-fans who Think he would be the right person to replace OGS.
Aye because Spurs fans have always disliked him and it isn’t a case of a manager reaching the end of his cycle at a club, which happens to practically every single manager ever.
 

United58

Full Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2019
Messages
2,190
Location
Ireland
Aye because Spurs fans have always disliked him and it isn’t a case of a manager reaching the end of his cycle at a club, which happens to practically every single manager ever.
What makes you think that? Whenever I saw them talking about him up to the start of this season they've always gone on about how much he's done for the club, punching above his weight given their resources etc
 

M16Red

Full Member
Joined
Oct 24, 2011
Messages
3,143
No, it's a theory that has been mentioned by SAF among others. Basically you need to rejuvenate the core of the team every 3-4 years and it makes sense because that's about the maximum that you can get from the exact same group of players, you rarely see teams perform longer than that at their best.
So today they played two new players they purchased this season and did SAF the core that much? Attack yes.. but base I don't think so.

This is my first time in this thread for a long time, and I've read one or two pages of excuses and theories.

If we win tomorrow we will be above Tottenham. . let that sink in, worst start to the premiership in history for United and yet above this manager after four seasons of work.
 

JPRouve

can't stop thinking about balls - NOT deflategate
Scout
Joined
Jan 31, 2014
Messages
65,354
Location
France
So today they played two new players they purchased this season and did SAF the core that much? Attack yes.. but base I don't think so.

This is my first time in this thread for a long time, and I've read one or two pages of excuses and theories.

If we win tomorrow we will be above Tottenham. . let that sink in, worst start to the premiership in history for United and yet above this manager after four seasons of work.
United were continuously rejuvenating under SAF, the rest as much as the attack. And it's not an excuse, you can have the opinion that you want about Pochettino it won't change SAF theory, if you disagree with him it's okay.
 

M16Red

Full Member
Joined
Oct 24, 2011
Messages
3,143
United were continuously rejuvenating under SAF, the rest as much as the attack. And it's not an excuse, you can have the opinion that you want about Pochettino it won't change SAF theory, if you disagree with him it's okay.
Really, Rio was here 12 years, Carrick 11 years, Scholes, Rooney 13 years that your core right there.. Pat and Vidic 8 years

I'm just questioning where this theories from the "core" bit; SAF created four teams at Utd (my fav was the 1999 442 team) but the core didn't change that much, if poch hasn't built a good core by now then what does that say about him as a manager - even worse hes created the core and lost the dress room..

Do you think he'd do a job here?
 

JPRouve

can't stop thinking about balls - NOT deflategate
Scout
Joined
Jan 31, 2014
Messages
65,354
Location
France
Really, Rio was here 12 years, Carrick 11 years, Scholes, Rooney 13 years that your core right there.. Pat and Vidic 8 years

I'm just questioning where this theories from the "core" bit; SAF created four teams at Utd (my fav was the 1999 442 team) but the core didn't change that much, if poch hasn't built a good core by now then what does that say about him as a manager - even worse hes created the core and lost the dress room..

Do you think he'd do a job here?
And Ronaldo, Tevez, Saha, RVN, Hargreaves, RVP, Valencia, Nani, Heinze, Fletcher that's rejuvenating the core with top players having key roles. Spurs haven't done that by lack of money or ability but they are at a point where they need it whoever manages them.

And I don't know if he'd do a job at United, I think that he is a good coach and I like him but I have no certitudes.
 

lysglimt

Full Member
Scout
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
15,109
Aye because Spurs fans have always disliked him and it isn’t a case of a manager reaching the end of his cycle at a club, which happens to practically every single manager ever.
And for the sake of argument - if I agree with what you are saying about the cycle - do you think it would be smart to hire a manager who has taken a team in a 2 year continuous downward cycle without being able to stop the rot ?
 

Judas

Open to offers
Joined
Jun 28, 2010
Messages
35,964
Location
Where the grass is greener.
And for the sake of argument - if I agree with what you are saying about the cycle - do you think it would be smart to hire a manager who has taken a team in a 2 year continuous downward cycle without being able to stop the rot ?
They played in the CL final this year and could have won it if they remembered to turn up.

Feels weird defending Poch as I don’t really like the bloke, but the stuff people say on here is just weird.
 

Fussball13251

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Sep 2, 2019
Messages
525
Table. Points in the top 4 to outside the top 4. Top 4 will be out of reach soon for both United and Spurs if they don't start picking up points soon.
 

CHKBC

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jun 7, 2019
Messages
49
I would love to see Pochettino leave Tottenham if nothing more than to see glastonspur’s reaction and fumbling excuses. Also, he deserves much better than working for a tightwad like Levy.
 

Scroto Baggins

Full Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2017
Messages
2,340
Supports
Newcastle Jets
Conflicts make a lot of difference. There are obviously player-board conflicts at Tottenham, regarding the contracts. Manager-board conflict looks like it started last season, which would be hard to fix once that appears. Once conflicts appear, they almost never get resolved.

I think it has just gone stale at Tottenham. I think Pochettino would be fine here; it is just there is nothing he can actually do at Tottenham to fix it.
Spurs needed to move on all those players who were vocal about wanting to leave and are half assing it now. Alderweireld, Rose, Aurier, Wanyama, Vertonghen, Eriksen. It will end up costing Pochettino his job, and the players will get their move anyway. Far too complacent with what they had.

No Spurs-fans want him - but there are still some smart United-fans who Think he would be the right person to replace OGS.
His time is done, either he moves or the core of the old guard moves. Usually cheaper to get rid of the manager for tightwad's like Levy. The problem being, who do they bring in? No top rate manager will work with squad investment on a level below Hammers and Everton. So they only have the option of bringing in someone who is trying to make a name for himself.
 

Leftback99

Might have a bedwetting fetish.
Joined
Jan 11, 2015
Messages
13,967
It will be interesting how it plays out for Spurs, they really need a big turn around or face the prospect of:

- Missing out on CL
- Sacking and paying off Poch
- Needing to replace Eriksen, Vertonghen and Alderweireld who could leave for nothing

At the same time we hope to be on the up next season, Chelsea will be back in the transfer market, Arsenal won't be terrible forever and Leicester are joining the mix.

They were strong 3rd favourites for the league at the start of the season, it couldn't have gone much worse so far.
 

Amadaeus

Pochémon Fan Club Chairman
Joined
May 8, 2013
Messages
9,233
Location
Amongst footballing managerial 'Gods'
I don’t even think Bebe has put on a performance as bad as Eriksen had against Everton. This shows exactly what Pochettino is working with at Spurs. A few players are no longer motivated and once that happens, it effects the psychological conditions in dressing room. Poch is still the second or third best manager in the world and once he gets ride of the negative energy in the dressing room, he will continue to overachieve at Spurs.

Regardless, Allegri is a good choice to replace Poch. He is the type of manager that will get results and will put on some good displays like Emery for Arsenal.
 

Ban

New Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2015
Messages
26,022
Location
Zagreb, HR
There are obviously problems between him and the board and some would still take him to work with our beloved Ed.
 

KM

I’m afraid I just blue myself
Joined
Sep 18, 2008
Messages
49,718
I'm very confident that he'll be our next manager and I think he'll be a tremendous appointment. He has had a bad six months for sure but the work he's done before that was simply outstanding given the budgetary restrictions he had.
 

balaks

Full Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2014
Messages
15,335
Location
Northern Ireland
Supports
Tottenham Hotspur
I'm very confident that he'll be our next manager and I think he'll be a tremendous appointment. He has had a bad six months for sure but the work he's done before that was simply outstanding given the budgetary restrictions he had.
I think you could be right. I'll be very sad to see him go as he has been brilliant but his time here is done. For me I'm hoping for Allegri or..... Jose... (don't laugh)
 

Suvvernmanc

Full Member
Joined
Oct 2, 2018
Messages
936
With Poch at spurs and their 'slump', they have an aging pair of CBs. Sissoko, Eriksen, are not young. they need to refresh their squad with 3 or 4 players. They have bought in a couple but need more.

I personally think he would be great here with a bigger budget. But I also have changed my mind in recent weeks on Ole. I think the our squad is limited and with better players he will do ok. We are seeing better football with Martial, Rashford and James starting together. Add a creative midfielder with Pogba coming back, a backup striker and another top right winger and we will be a good team.

The next 2 windows are huge for both spurs and us!
 

Scroto Baggins

Full Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2017
Messages
2,340
Supports
Newcastle Jets
I think you could be right. I'll be very sad to see him go as he has been brilliant but his time here is done. For me I'm hoping for Allegri or..... Jose... (don't laugh)
Neither Jose or Allegri would go to Spurs and operate with a budget on par with Hammers and less than Everton. If you go purely on spend on squad for the last 5 years Spurs should be placed 8th, both Leicester and Everton are above them in squad investment. With the usual suspects, Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea, City, us all spending more.

So really, they are performing a little under par. Unlike us, who have invested more money than every other team except City. Such poor management from us.
 

sglowrider

Thinks the caf is 'wokeish'.
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Messages
25,183
Location
Hell on Earth
With Poch at spurs and their 'slump', they have an aging pair of CBs. Sissoko, Eriksen, are not young. they need to refresh their squad with 3 or 4 players. They have bought in a couple but need more.

I personally think he would be great here with a bigger budget. But I also have changed my mind in recent weeks on Ole. I think the our squad is limited and with better players he will do ok. We are seeing better football with Martial, Rashford and James starting together. Add a creative midfielder with Pogba coming back, a backup striker and another top right winger and we will be a good team.

The next 2 windows are huge for both spurs and us!
They are a step behind us in terms of the players' age profiles and average age. We started reducing it already. They have yet to do so.

Lets see if Poch can rebuild teams at the same club. He has only done one cycle in all his previous clubs. Its not something to scoff at -- its one of the things that made Fergie GOAT. Arsen, like Fergie were the only two who had the stability and long term flexibility to succession plan but he failed miserably.
 

JPRouve

can't stop thinking about balls - NOT deflategate
Scout
Joined
Jan 31, 2014
Messages
65,354
Location
France
There is one little thing that I find perplexing in this thread and his own thread, Eriksen's age is constantly brought up as if he was in his 30s, Eriksen is 27. He probably needs a change of scenery but he isn't old.
 

Suvvernmanc

Full Member
Joined
Oct 2, 2018
Messages
936
They are a step behind us in terms of the players' age profiles and average age. We started reducing it already. They have yet to do so.

Lets see if Poch can rebuild teams at the same club. He has only done one cycle in all his previous clubs. Its not something to scoff at -- its one of the things that made Fergie GOAT. Arsen, like Fergie were the only two who had the stability and long term flexibility to succession plan but he failed miserably.
Absolutely agree. But they have a better group of 'peak' players than us. We are younger and will grow with what we have and hopefully add too, and poch at spurs need to spend in the next 2 windows as i previously stated. Rose, Vertonghen, Toby, Eriksen all want to leave and Lamela could in the future as well if he doesn't get the minutes. That's alot of money to be spending if you want to replace with the same calibre of player.

I think Poch will leave soon as the rebuild will take 2 or 3 seasons due to Levy where as it should be done by end of next summer.
 

Suv666

Full Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2016
Messages
8,705
He's the best candidate for the Utd job. Only thing that bothers me is his poor recruitment. Most of his signings havent been all that.
 

KM

I’m afraid I just blue myself
Joined
Sep 18, 2008
Messages
49,718
I think you could be right. I'll be very sad to see him go as he has been brilliant but his time here is done. For me I'm hoping for Allegri or..... Jose... (don't laugh)
There's no chance of Jose there from whatever I have read of Levy. I think Rodgers is a decent shout for your next manager.
 

Oldyella

Full Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2014
Messages
5,756
Think the damage was done when they signed no one last year. They got to the final but you could tell the squad was creaking. Now they have made signings but its to late and older players have already made their minds up on leaving.
 

AshRK

Full Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2017
Messages
12,097
Location
Canada
"You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain"

Poch should have left at the end of last season. I know he had a contract but he should/could have acted a bit smartly and leave on high. His football started looking boring since the start of 2018/19 season and he should have realised it would not take him anywhere but he decided to stay and is looking out of sorts.

Would I take him at United? I would not mind him but he won't be my first choice.
 

sunama

Baghdad Bob
Joined
Apr 26, 2014
Messages
16,830
There is one little thing that I find perplexing in this thread and his own thread, Eriksen's age is constantly brought up as if he was in his 30s, Eriksen is 27. He probably needs a change of scenery but he isn't old.
If he really is 27, then he is pretty much at his peak and in his prime. The next contract he signs will be with a club who get him at his absolute peak.

This assumes that he takes care of himself and doesn't go into early decline (like Sanchez and Rooney).
 

alexthelion

Full Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2019
Messages
3,601
I don’t even think Bebe has put on a performance as bad as Eriksen had against Everton. This shows exactly what Pochettino is working with at Spurs. A few players are no longer motivated and once that happens, it effects the psychological conditions in dressing room. Poch is still the second or third best manager in the world and once he gets ride of the negative energy in the dressing room, he will continue to overachieve at Spurs.

Regardless, Allegri is a good choice to replace Poch. He is the type of manager that will get results and will put on some good displays like Emery for Arsenal.
:lol:

Instead of keeping them in the squad to spread disharmony, he should banish them to the reserves. It's bad management to keep them in the squad/play them when they clearly can't be bothered.