We have some exciting young players coming through but it's all potential right now. Huge weakness in midfield, defense and goalkeeper. Can't argue we have some exceptional attacking talent though.
Is this the best (most promising) England squad (inc manager) we've had?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
Sassy Colin
Death or the gladioli!
Who did nothing.Hence its player by player comparison only.
As a team, the midfield is not really balance, and they failed.
But player by player, almost everything position we have worldclass players there.
Italy 90 is pretty good too, but I prefer the golden generation.
Italia 90 squad
1 GK Peter Shilton
2 DF Gary Stevens
3 DF Stuart Pearce
4 MF Neil Webb
5 DF Des Walker
6 DF Terry Butcher
7 MF Bryan Robson (c)
8 MF Chris Waddle
9 FW Peter Beardsley
10 FW Gary Lineker
11 MF John Barnes
12 DF Paul Parker
13 GK Chris Woods
14 DF Mark Wright
15 DF Tony Dorigo
16 MF Steve McMahon
17 MF David Platt
18 MF Steve Hodge
19 MF Paul Gascoigne
20 MF Trevor Steven
21 FW Steve Bull
22 GK David Seaman
Denis' cuff
Full Member
Nah. ‘66 and ‘70 definitely beat it and probably several before that.
We have a potential golden generation coming through in a couple of years. Some of the England youngsters have the potential to be frighteningly good.
RedRonaldo
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Sure its a good squad, as I've already said. But what exactly has this squad achieved? 4th in WC? Which was 1 round better than the golden generation who only managed to get into last 8 obviously. But it hasn't exactly achieved anything either. Personally I still preferred the gold generation, which kind of flopped obviously, but it has the real potential to be the best in the world at that time.Who did nothing.
Italia 90 squad
1 GK Peter Shilton
2 DF Gary Stevens
3 DF Stuart Pearce
4 MF Neil Webb
5 DF Des Walker
6 DF Terry Butcher
7 MF Bryan Robson (c)
8 MF Chris Waddle
9 FW Peter Beardsley
10 FW Gary Lineker
11 MF John Barnes
12 DF Paul Parker
13 GK Chris Woods
14 DF Mark Wright
15 DF Tony Dorigo
16 MF Steve McMahon
17 MF David Platt
18 MF Steve Hodge
19 MF Paul Gascoigne
20 MF Trevor Steven
21 FW Steve Bull
22 GK David Seaman
FrankDrebin
Don't call me Shirley
Tyrone 'Stampy' Mings ,really ?
MsNuno
Full Member
Both the team and the manager are overrated and boring
Schmeichel's Cartwheel
Correctly predicted Italy to win Euro 2020
No. The early-mid 2000s squad was miles better. Rooney, Owen, Gerrard, Lampard, J. Cole, Beckham, Scholes, Carrick, Lampard, Hargreaves, Ferdinand, Terry, Campbell, King, Carragher, Neville brothers, A. Cole, etc
Miles better.
Miles better.
Seaman
G.Neville Ferdinand Terry A.Cole
Beckham Scholes Gerrard J.Cole
Lampard
Rooney
that team would fecking smash this lot. If you wanna go more conservative in the middle replace one of Scholes/Gerrard/Lampard with Hargreaves or Carrick, it's still a battering.G.Neville Ferdinand Terry A.Cole
Beckham Scholes Gerrard J.Cole
Lampard
Rooney
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It can be a great generation depending on what Sancho and Foden become
Renegade
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I don’t recall Seaman and J.Cole being in the same period. Goalkeeper and Dynamic wide players was always the issue with the golden generation. Also the lack of tactical flexibility, 442 should have been left alone with the players available but every manager insisted on it. With a modern 433, you could have used both Lampard and Gerrard alongside a Hargreaves/Carrick. Beckham could have been used in the KDB role too.No. The early-mid 2000s squad was miles better. Rooney, Owen, Gerrard, Lampard, J. Cole, Beckham, Scholes, Carrick, Lampard, Hargreaves, Ferdinand, Terry, Campbell, King, Carragher, Neville brothers, A. Cole, etc
Miles better.
Seamanthat team would fecking smash this lot. If you wanna go more conservative in the middle replace one of Scholes/Gerrard/Lampard with Hargreaves or Carrick, it's still a battering.
G.Neville Ferdinand Terry A.Cole
Beckham Scholes Gerrard J.Cole
Lampard
Rooney
The golden generation midfield and defence with this current forward line would be incredible though.
we forget how strong every other nation was 10 years ago, regardless of how many class players we have other nations had better.
MoskvaRed
Full Member
They are better players on the left but they never formed a good team (at least after Euro 2004). The current bunch are the best for 10 years and seem to have a manager who understand them and knows how to make them gel. They should have a decent chance of getting to the last 4 of the Euros.On paper its probably one of our worst.
Like other has already said, the golden generation are far superior, if rate them player by player:
James 7 vs Pickford 7
Neville 8 vs Alex-Arnold 7-8
Rio 9 vs Maguire 7-8
Terry 9 vs Mings 7
Cole 9 vs Chilwell 7
Lampard 9 vs Ox-Chamberlain 7
Gerrard 9 vs Henderson 7
Scholes 9 vs Maddison 7-8
Beckham 9 vs Sterling 9
Owen 9 vs Rashford 8
Rooney 9 vs Kane 9
Hammondo
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But in reality they were pretty meh.No. The early-mid 2000s squad was miles better. Rooney, Owen, Gerrard, Lampard, J. Cole, Beckham, Scholes, Carrick, Lampard, Hargreaves, Ferdinand, Terry, Campbell, King, Carragher, Neville brothers, A. Cole, etc
Miles better.
Seamanthat team would fecking smash this lot. If you wanna go more conservative in the middle replace one of Scholes/Gerrard/Lampard with Hargreaves or Carrick, it's still a battering.
G.Neville Ferdinand Terry A.Cole
Beckham Scholes Gerrard J.Cole
Lampard
Rooney
tentan
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The golden generation (04-06) were better players. If the England setup back then was as good as it it is now i.e more of a togetherness, good philosophy and environment to be in then they might have won something.
Infordin
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Hilarious how in the 2008 UCL final, half of the 20 starting outfield players were English yet that team couldn’t even make it to the Euros that summer.
Brown, Terry, Ferdinand, A Cole, J Cole, Scholes, Carrick, Hargreaves, Lampard, Rooney
That’s without a peak Gerrard who was eliminated in the semifinal.
Brown, Terry, Ferdinand, A Cole, J Cole, Scholes, Carrick, Hargreaves, Lampard, Rooney
That’s without a peak Gerrard who was eliminated in the semifinal.
SalfordRed18
Netflix and avocado, no chill
Golden generation had fantastic individuality but we're not cohesive as a team, had no rhythm or style, didn't have the mentality, lots of square pegs in wholes. They simply didn't work together for a variety of reasons and it showed on the pitch. They never really looked a "team" and all the hype because of individual talent at club level rather than what we actually saw on the pitch.
This team might not be as good individually but IMO perform much better as a team. Theres a clear ethos, a clear mentality, actual rhythm, actual direction. It's why Jordan fecking Henderson doesn't look totally awful when he plays for England, or Liverpool for that matter.
Liverpool is actually a good example, player for player Liverpool have had much better teams in the past but this is the best pool team I've ever seen. Hell player for player city are better than Liverpool but their last game or league table doesn't reflect that.
Tl;dr, best teams win, not necessarily the best players.
This team might not be as good individually but IMO perform much better as a team. Theres a clear ethos, a clear mentality, actual rhythm, actual direction. It's why Jordan fecking Henderson doesn't look totally awful when he plays for England, or Liverpool for that matter.
Liverpool is actually a good example, player for player Liverpool have had much better teams in the past but this is the best pool team I've ever seen. Hell player for player city are better than Liverpool but their last game or league table doesn't reflect that.
Tl;dr, best teams win, not necessarily the best players.
BluesJr
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As an outsider (Scottish) this is the first time an England team has actually been decent to watch. The ‘golden generation’ had a lot of hype but the football you played was shite because you had terrible managers. This is the best I’ve seen England the attack is so vibrant. The midfield is Liverpool like, they aren’t exactly doing badly tbf.
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Not yet, but I agree we have potential world class talent coming through in every position, possibly lagging a little in CB and ball-playing DM.
But bare in mind that in just the year following the 2018 World Cup we've seen surefire future England players come from complete obscurity: Dean Henderson, Ramsdale, Wan-Bissaka, James, Sessegnon, Tomori, Rice, Sancho, Hudson-Odoi, Foden, Mount, Maddison, Abraham (maybe you guys would say Chilwell also)
Therefore the thing that excites me most is not the current England squad.
But bare in mind that in just the year following the 2018 World Cup we've seen surefire future England players come from complete obscurity: Dean Henderson, Ramsdale, Wan-Bissaka, James, Sessegnon, Tomori, Rice, Sancho, Hudson-Odoi, Foden, Mount, Maddison, Abraham (maybe you guys would say Chilwell also)
Therefore the thing that excites me most is not the current England squad.
Yagami
Good post resistant
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Wouldn't our best squad be 66? The squad that actually won a tournament?
Plus, our best player had retired from international football by 2008 so no point including Scholes in that list.
Shows you how important the manager is.Hilarious how in the 2008 UCL final, half of the 20 starting outfield players were English yet that team couldn’t even make it to the Euros that summer.
Brown, Terry, Ferdinand, A Cole, J Cole, Scholes, Carrick, Hargreaves, Lampard, Rooney
That’s without a peak Gerrard who was eliminated in the semifinal.
Plus, our best player had retired from international football by 2008 so no point including Scholes in that list.
amolbhatia50k
Sneaky bum time - Vaccination status: dozed off
The Golden Generation and absolutely fantastic on paper. They needed a better manager though.
Web of Bissaka
Full Member
RB and Attack department are the only ones exciting and promising.
The rest.. No way.
Tbf, plenty other promising young players and that's the full stop at "promising".
The rest.. No way.
Tbf, plenty other promising young players and that's the full stop at "promising".
Lee565
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Our midfield and defence is a bit suspect, maybe 4231 and fit sterling, rashford, kane and sancho all in the side.
-------- pickford
Taa-Maguire-tomori-chilwell
-----henderson-stones
--sancho--sterling--rashford
----------------kane
-------- pickford
Taa-Maguire-tomori-chilwell
-----henderson-stones
--sancho--sterling--rashford
----------------kane
I don't think he's even saying the 9s are wrong. Those were fantastic players.Hence its player by player comparison only.
As a team, the midfield is not really balance, and they failed.
But player by player, almost everything position we have worldclass players there.
Italy 90 is pretty good too, but I prefer the golden generation.
He might be more like me and simply bemoaning, with some remnants of surprise, our inability to do anything with that team.
On the overall topic, I get why OP thinks the way he does. No England team has battered its equally poor qualifying group so thoroughly and consistently for a very long time. There are reasons to believe that this team as a unit could go places.
Green_Red
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Until you meet another decent team yes it is an out of this world most promising young team of forever and all times!. Lads, its Montenegro. Did ye get beat by the Czechs a couple if weeks ago?
ayushreddevil9
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AgreedUntil you meet another decent team yes it is an out of this world most promising young team of forever and all times!. Lads, its Montenegro. Did ye get beat by the Czechs a couple if weeks ago?
Foxbatt
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The problem with England was they had the best team with the worst manager. If Venables had that team they may have won something. England is an old boys club so that why Cloughie never got the job either.
SirReginald
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Every young team has its flaws like fragility and consistency but I like how the squad is shaping up. GK, CB and CM are a little weak and I certainly dont think we will win the Euros but maybe they will have more maturity at the next World Cup.
My only concern is the insistence on a single Forward. Kane, like Rooney, has a tendency to drop deep. We should practice in Friendlies with 2 forwards more, just in case the usual doesnt work.
I'm starting to have more interest in England once again. From McClaren onwards, I didnt give a toss about England. Same boring play, same boring players who couldn't play as a team, same excuses when they lost. This team is young, vibrant and skillful.
My only concern is the insistence on a single Forward. Kane, like Rooney, has a tendency to drop deep. We should practice in Friendlies with 2 forwards more, just in case the usual doesnt work.
I'm starting to have more interest in England once again. From McClaren onwards, I didnt give a toss about England. Same boring play, same boring players who couldn't play as a team, same excuses when they lost. This team is young, vibrant and skillful.
AkaAkuma
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I think mentality is a big factor for the 'golden generation', I dont think the players or the fans felt we were capable of mixing it with the top 4 teams in the world. We were quarter finals at best. We had an inferiority complex at that level.Golden generation had fantastic individuality but we're not cohesive as a team, had no rhythm or style, didn't have the mentality, lots of square pegs in wholes. They simply didn't work together for a variety of reasons and it showed on the pitch. They never really looked a "team" and all the hype because of individual talent at club level rather than what we actually saw on the pitch.
This team might not be as good individually but IMO perform much better as a team. Theres a clear ethos, a clear mentality, actual rhythm, actual direction. It's why Jordan fecking Henderson doesn't look totally awful when he plays for England, or Liverpool for that matter.
Perhaps that laid the ground work for the next generation though, the rise of the premier league etc, it laid the foundation for confidence in the generation that followed.
I think the 'golden generation' were always hampered by the Gerrard/Lampard conundrum. Which ultimately took the focus off both Scholes and Carrick, players that should and could have made the difference.
As for the current generation I think the pools very good, we have a better depth of technical players - its a more balanced set of players.
Infordin
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Sterling as a 10 and Stones as DM? That midfield would get schooled against any good team.Our midfield and defence is a bit suspect, maybe 4231 and fit sterling, rashford, kane and sancho all in the side.
-------- pickford
Taa-Maguire-tomori-chilwell
-----henderson-stones
--sancho--sterling--rashford
----------------kane
Maddison is a must imo.
SadlerMUFC
Thinks for himself
On paper the "golden generation" had great players, but if it were possible to have them play against the squad England has now, I would take the new team to win. Mind you, if the old team had a modern manager who could select a team to play in today's style it might not be so clear cut...On paper its probably one of our worst.
Like other has already said, the golden generation are far superior, if rate them player by player:
James 7 vs Pickford 7
Neville 8 vs Alex-Arnold 7-8
Rio 9 vs Maguire 7-8
Terry 9 vs Mings 7
Cole 9 vs Chilwell 7
Lampard 9 vs Ox-Chamberlain 7
Gerrard 9 vs Henderson 7
Scholes 9 vs Maddison 7-8
Beckham 9 vs Sterling 9
Owen 9 vs Rashford 8
Rooney 9 vs Kane 9
amolbhatia50k
Sneaky bum time - Vaccination status: dozed off
Says it all about the way that team was managed. Talent was it was on a different level to the current lot. But as with any team, management and coaching is key.Hilarious how in the 2008 UCL final, half of the 20 starting outfield players were English yet that team couldn’t even make it to the Euros that summer.
Brown, Terry, Ferdinand, A Cole, J Cole, Scholes, Carrick, Hargreaves, Lampard, Rooney
That’s without a peak Gerrard who was eliminated in the semifinal.
Dancfc
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I love how our lads are being overlooked. This time next year all bar Tammy will be starting.
KM
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James won't get over TAA. I rate James but TAA is a generational talent.I love how our lads are being overlooked. This time next year all bar Tammy will be starting.
ghagua
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Yes absolutely. We had better players before, but these players are not afraid of playing at international level. Have to credit Southgate for instilling the belief in these players to go out and play. Could not belive when Southgate got the job, now I would gladly have him at United.
Dancfc
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So's James, he was the star player of the most successful academy side for generations.James won't get over TAA. I rate James but TAA is a generational talent.
Anyway there's room for both regardless, either by playing 3atb with James RCB and Trent wingback, or one of them in midfield.
Raees
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What that generation lacked though was quality quick dribblers with goal threat and ability to play in triangles and a nimble pivot too - though Hargreaves was good in big games tbh. Also distinct lack of attacking full backs.Hilarious how in the 2008 UCL final, half of the 20 starting outfield players were English yet that team couldn’t even make it to the Euros that summer.
Brown, Terry, Ferdinand, A Cole, J Cole, Scholes, Carrick, Hargreaves, Lampard, Rooney
That’s without a peak Gerrard who was eliminated in the semifinal.
These are key elements in the fluidity of modern successful sides.
Someone like Scholes would love playing in the current set up..
NoPace
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If that had been the team England put out everyone would have been mad about Hargreaves playing on the right and no Gerrard but they probably would have gone pretty far. Good dour international team with club partnerships, Rooney a handful as lone striker and Lampard and set pieces probably giving just enough of a goal threat.Hilarious how in the 2008 UCL final, half of the 20 starting outfield players were English yet that team couldn’t even make it to the Euros that summer.
Brown, Terry, Ferdinand, A Cole, J Cole, Scholes, Carrick, Hargreaves, Lampard, Rooney
That’s without a peak Gerrard who was eliminated in the semifinal.
Gerrard should have been England's Fabregas, coming on with 30 minutes to go to wreak havoc, or getting starts when a tournament wasn't going well or for a specific tactical reason and far forward.
Infordin
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I believe Scholes had retired from international football by then?If that had been the team England put out everyone would have been mad about Hargreaves playing on the right and no Gerrard but they probably would have gone pretty far. Good dour international team with club partnerships, Rooney a handful as lone striker and Lampard and set pieces probably giving just enough of a goal threat.
James
Brown - Ferdinand - Terry - A Cole
Gerrard - Hargreaves - Carrick - J Cole
Lampard
Rooney
Brown - Ferdinand - Terry - A Cole
Gerrard - Hargreaves - Carrick - J Cole
Lampard
Rooney
If this team was managed by someone competent (not Steve McLaren), I genuinely believe that they had the potential to challenge Spain.
IMO one of England’s biggest mistakes was playing Gerrard as a central midfielder for all those years. Gerrard should have been used as RW or second striker behind Rooney, not a CM. He didn’t have the tactical awareness of a proper central midfielder like Scholes.
Yagami
Good post resistant
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I agree.What that generation lacked though was quality quick dribblers with goal threat and ability to play in triangles and a nimble pivot too - though Hargreaves was good in big games tbh. Also distinct lack of attacking full backs.
These are key elements in the fluidity of modern successful sides.
Someone like Scholes would love playing in the current set up..
I think if Scholes had come out of retirement, and we had current day Sterling in the squad, and a competent manager, then who knows...
James
Brown/Neville Rio Terry Cole
Scholes Carrick
Beckham Lampard/Gerrard Sterling
Rooney
Classical Mechanic
Full Member
Over Kane? Kane is absolutely on fire for England currently, he has 11 goals and 4 assists in 7 qualifying games so far, an average of slightly over 2 goals and assists per game!I love how our lads are being overlooked. This time next year all bar Tammy will be starting.