Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

Tostao_80 said:

Theres quite simply never been a more rounded player in the last third in football history. Who in football history has combined GOAT level goalscoring, GOAT level playmaking, GOAT passing and GOAT dribbling all into one? Diego didn't have the goalscoring, Pele the passing, Cruyff the goals, Cristiano the playmaking and passing.
He only needs 16 more free kicks to enter top 3 of all time. He has been the worlds best free kick taker in the last 7years, by some distance. He will end his career as one of the greatest free kick takers of all time too. Incredible.

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Cruyff was a great goal scorer at his peak , regularly hitting 30-40 goals a season for Ajax.

VorZakone said:

"But Ronaldo is clearly the better goalscorer of the 2"

Adding to that, both the goal records for a season and calendar year are on Messi's name too.

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Amazing players both of them.

2mufc0 said:

Cruyff was a great goal scorer at his peak , regularly hitting 30-40 goals a season for Ajax.

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Yes, that is true. But I said at GOAT level. Cristiano and Leo will end up with over 800 career goals, that's double Cruyffs total. He's not in their stratosphere as a goal scorer. Never mind the likes of Muller and Pele. He only once ever got more than 40 goals in a season (41). Leo has done that 10 times already. Different class.

Tostao_80 said:

Yes, that is true. But I said at GOAT level. Cristiano and Leo will end up with over 800 career goals, that's double Cruyffs total. He's not in their stratosphere as a goal scorer. Never mind the likes of Muller and Pele. He only once ever got more than 40 goals in a season (41). Leo has done that 10 times already. Different class.

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For that era it was a lot of goals for the position he played. You said he didn't have the goals, but at his peak he was a very good goal scorer. Obviously Messi and Ronaldo took it to another level, but I'm not arguing that.

2mufc0 said:

For that era it was a lot of goals for the position he played. You said he didn't have the goals, but at his peak he was a very good goal scorer. Obviously Messi and Ronaldo took it to another level, but I'm not arguing that.

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I meant at a GOAT level. When talking strictly the greatest goalscorer of all time, Cruyff wouldnt be a contender. Obviously for his era, he shone. But of all time? Not a chance.

VorZakone said:

"But Ronaldo is clearly the better goalscorer of the 2"

Adding to that, both the goal records for a season and calendar year are on Messi's name too.

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I’ve never really understood that. When people say Ronaldo is the better goalscorer out the too. Based on what?

This thread is toxic.

Messi's the better player but in a must win game I would pick Ronaldo.

Messi probably does edge it.

The things in Ronaldo’s favour:

Has done it in 3 leagues now. If he wins the Champions League with Juventus he’s achieved much than Messi in the tournament.

Winning an international trophy and general international record with arguably a weaker team.

Heading.

Messi edges everything else.

Renegade said:

I’ve never really understood that. When people say Ronaldo is the better goalscorer out the too. Based on what?

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Based on 4 things probably:
- 450 goals in 438 games at Real Madrid in 9 years, the only player who has more than a goal per game there (Messi has 608 goals in 695 games at Barca in 16 years, if compared same period to Ronaldo time in Spain, Messi has scored 472 goals in 476 games in 9 years, still slightly less than a goal per game)
- 95 international goals for a Portugal, all time record at Europe (Messi has 68 goals)
- 127 goals in CL, all time record (Messi has 113 goals)
- 702 career goals so far, highest among current players and over the past 2 decades (Messi has 676 goals)

Messi is an amazing goalscorer too (GOAT level) especially with his goal per game ratio over his career, but to be fair, Ronaldo has spent his first 5 seasons playing as a traditional winger in 442 (to replace David Beckham), that’s over 200 games as pure winger in midfield (before turning into wing forward), so it has somewhat distort his goals per game ratio over his career. But ever since he has turned into wing forward, he is probably greatest/deadliest goalscorer ever. But I think Messi is at same level too, only thing he is slightly behind is probably his goalscoring stats for Argentina.

RedRonaldo said:

Based on 4 things probably:
- 450 goals in 438 games at Real Madrid in 9 years, the only player who has more than a goal per game there (Messi has 608 goals in 695 games at Barca in 16 years, if compared same period to Ronaldo time in Spain, Messi has scored 472 goals in 476 games in 9 years, still slightly less than a goal per game)
- 95 international goals for a Portugal, all time record at Europe (Messi has 68 goals)
- 127 goals in CL, all time record (Messi has 113 goals)
- 702 career goals so far, highest among current players and over the past 2 decades (Messi has 676 goals)

Messi is an amazing goalscorer too (GOAT level) especially with his goal per game ratio over his career, but to be fair, Ronaldo has spent his first 5 seasons playing as a traditional winger in 442 (to replace David Beckham), that’s over 200 games as pure winger in midfield (before turning into wing forward), so it has somewhat distort his goals per game ratio over his career. But ever since he has turned into wing forward, he is probably greatest/deadliest goalscorer ever. But I think Messi is at same level too, only thing he is slightly behind is probably his goalscoring stats for Argentina.

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Messi played 476 game for Barcelona in 9 years? it is average 54 game per year. It mean he nearly played every game in 9 years
Where is your figure come from ?

hkjack said:

Messi played 476 game for Barcelona in 9 years? it is average 54 game per year. It mean he nearly played every game in 9 years
Where is your figure come from ?

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Yes average 54 games per season in all competitions for Barca (league, CL, cup competitions)

There are lot of source you can find the stats:

Wikipedia
Or
Messivsronaldo.net

Tostao_80 said:

Theres quite simply never been a more rounded player in the last third in football history. Who in football history has combined GOAT level goalscoring, GOAT level playmaking, GOAT passing and GOAT dribbling all into one? Diego didn't have the goalscoring, Pele the passing, Cruyff the goals, Cristiano the playmaking and passing.
He only needs 16 more free kicks to enter top 3 of all time. He has been the worlds best free kick taker in the last 7years, by some distance. He will end his career as one of the greatest free kick takers of all time too. Incredible.

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How many freekicks Messi has scored over his career? I checks on some sites saying Messi has 50 vs Ronaldo 54. Apparently Messi has been better in freekick in recent years so he may end up scoring more.

RedRonaldo said:

How many freekicks Messi has scored over his career? I checks on some sites saying Messi has 50 vs Ronaldo 54. Apparently Messi has been better in freekick in recent years so he may end up scoring more.

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Leo is on 50, Cristiano 54. Leo in the last 5 years has been devastating, Cristiano, simply dire. Leo has scored more free kicks individually in the last 5 years than any team in the world in the same period. In the last 7 years he has outscored all other players quite handily (scored twice as many as the 2nd most prolific free kick taker, Pjanic). 3 to 5 more years and he will finish his career as one of the greatest free kick takers of all time.

RedRonaldo said:

Yes average 54 games per season in all competitions for Barca (league, CL, cup competitions)

There are lot of source you can find the stats:

Wikiped
Or
Messivsronaldo.net

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thanks, I also find the stats of assist , Messi has 57 more assists in 9 years .

Tostao_80 said:

Leo is on 50, Cristiano 54. Leo in the last 5 years has been devastating, Cristiano, simply dire. Leo has scored more free kicks individually in the last 5 years than any team in the world in the same period. In the last 7 years he has outscored all other players quite handily (scored twice as many as the 2nd most prolific free kick taker, Pjanic). 3 to 5 more years and he will finish his career as one of the greatest free kick takers of all time.

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What's the total amount of free kicks taken for both? Feels like Ronaldo attempts a googol amount of free kicks.

I think now it's more a question of where will Messi stand on that all-time table after he retires than whether he'll be considered as one of the the best free-kick takers or not. I mean, Ronaldinho has 66 goals, Beckham 65, Maradona and Zico 62, Koeman 60, but all of them are equally considered as the best free kick takers in history. so if he's in that company by the end of his career, that would be that.

but we should just wait and see whether he'll score enough of them to enter among the very best, since scoring even 9 direct free-kick goals isn't easy and that's what's required of him to enter top 10 of all time. it would be quite an achievement since he wasn't taking them from the start of his career and was sharing that duty with Xavi and Alves.

funny thing is that, after Messi, Juventus had the most goals scored from free-kicks in Europe in the last five seasons, but Ronaldo is pretty bad at them now - statistically the second worst in the history of Serie A and it doesn't seem like he's willing to let Pjanic or Dybala take them. so if he continues shooting and improves just a bit, I could actually see both him and Messi ending their careers in that top 10.

obviously, we would still be talking about the best from the rest, since Juninho will remain untouchable on top.

Bole Top said:

I think now it's more a question of where will Messi stand on that all-time table after he retires than whether he'll be considered as one of the the best free-kick takers or not. I mean, Ronaldinho has 66 goals, Beckham 65, Maradona and Zico 62, Koeman 60, but all of them are equally considered as the best free kick takers in history. so if he's in that company by the end of his career, that would be that.

but we should just wait and see whether he'll score enough of them to enter among the very best, since scoring even 9 direct free-kick goals isn't easy and that's what's required of him to enter top 10 of all time. it would be quite an achievement since he wasn't taking them from the start of his career and was sharing that duty with Xavi and Alves.

funny thing is that, after Messi, Juventus had the most goals scored from free-kicks in Europe in the last five seasons, but Ronaldo is pretty bad at them now - statistically the second worst in the history of Serie A and it doesn't seem like he's willing to let Pjanic or Dybala take them. so if he continues shooting and improves just a bit, I could actually see both him and Messi ending their careers in that top 10.

obviously, we would still be talking about the best from the rest, since Juninho will remain untouchable on top.

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Pjanic has scored more free kicks than anyone in Europe in the last 7 years (bar Leo), Cristiano is simply too selfish to let him take the majority, when Mirajem is better. But back to Leo, it depends how many more years he plays. 3 to 4 more at Barca and a few years back in Argentina, he should be able to get the 17 free kicks that would move him up to 2nd on the all time list.

Tostao_80 said:

Pjanic has scored more free kicks than anyone in Europe in the last 7 years (bar Leo), Cristiano is simply too selfish to let him take the majority, when Mirajem is better. But back to Leo, it depends how many more years he plays. 3 to 4 more at Barca and a few years back in Argentina, he should be able to get the 17 free kicks that would move him up to 2nd on the all time list.

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Such a great leader, always devoted to his team's success.

It will be very unfortunate if they don't play together competitively at least once before they both retire. Their playstyles would complement each other so well.

Time is running out for it to happen...

He'sRaldo said:

It will be very unfortunate if they don't play together competitively at least once before they both retire. Their playstyles would complement each other so well.

Time is running out for it to happen...

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I really agree with this and I think they would play out of their mind together. At any point in their careers. But even now, I just think they'd wreck teams offensively. Ronaldo's simple one touch passes and one-twos would work wonders for Messi's runs between lines, and he would just deliver all kinds of incredible balls for Ronaldo which would just then finish them up as he always has.

Man... This would be like a dream come true to me, just one season... In a big club without an European trophy.

Or even in the MLS.

Wish it'd happen...

bakalhau said:

I really agree with this and I think they would play out of their mind together. At any point in their careers. But even now, I just think they'd wreck teams offensively. Ronaldo's simple one touch passes and one-twos would work wonders for Messi's runs between lines, and he would just deliver all kinds of incredible balls for Ronaldo which would just then finish them up as he always has.

Man... This would be like a dream come true to me, just one season... In a big club without an European trophy.

Or even in the MLS.

Wish it'd happen...

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The worst thing is that it probably won't happen until both their legs have gone, and at that point it will be more of an exhibition than a serious affair.

Unless Juventus manage to somehow snag Messi as well, then they can play their dream formation of 9 behind the ball and 2 upfront wreaking havoc.

bakalhau said:

I really agree with this and I think they would play out of their mind together. At any point in their careers. But even now, I just think they'd wreck teams offensively. Ronaldo's simple one touch passes and one-twos would work wonders for Messi's runs between lines, and he would just deliver all kinds of incredible balls for Ronaldo which would just then finish them up as he always has.

Man... This would be like a dream come true to me, just one season... In a big club without an European trophy.

Or even in the MLS.

Wish it'd happen...

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No big club without European trophy could afford both player, as they are both on mega wages, will cost the club at least 1m per week for each.

I think their current iterations would work best together - Messi feeding Ronaldo's runs would be impossible to stop.

To think that Ronaldo fans on here have been claiming for the past year that he has to carry Juve more than Messi has to carry Barcelona.

Messi is best. No doubt.

Messi scored his first goal against Brazil for 7 years.

When you watch the two play right now, I don't think the gap has ever been bigger.

Bebestation said:

Messi scored his first goal against Brazil for 7 years.

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Imagine if he could’ve played Lithuania instead

I used to think the Dead Sea was the saltiest place on earth until I witnessed the Barcelona fans in this thread.

I’d still probably pick Messi over Ronaldo, by a hair, even if he did always have an amazing squad.

Baneofthegame said:

I used to think the Dead Sea was the saltiest place on earth until I witnessed the Barcelona fans in this thread.

I’d still probably pick Messi over Ronaldo, by a hair, even if he did always have an amazing squad.

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Ronaldo fans are worse, believe me

yeah, it's a shame Ronnie never got to play for the biggest clubs in the world and under the best managers in history.

Daysleeper said:

Ronaldo fans are worse, believe me

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Hardcore fans of both players are often ridiculous, there's no better or worse. There's no way to deny that Messi is far above Ronaldo in the begininng of this season, but that Ronaldo delivers most of the time with his national team when Messi is just helpless.

Oly Francis said:

Ronaldo delivers most of the time with his national team when Messi is just helpless.

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Weird that Messi has been player of the tournament twice yet Ronaldo never has.

Eddy_JukeZ said:

When you watch the two play right now, I don't think the gap has ever been bigger.

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But what about when you exclude all other games except Ronaldo's against Litvania? I bet the gap isn't that big when you look at it like that.

Eddy_JukeZ said:

When you watch the two play right now, I don't think the gap has ever been bigger.

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It was pretty big in 2004/05

Out of Ronaldo's 98 international goals only 37 have come against the top 50 teams ranked by FIFA.

Messi has 56 goals by the way.

I guess that means ranked top 50 by the time he scored against them (and not currently)?

As I see it, 37 is quite a large amount in itself. I'm sure all great volume scorers have loads of goals against small teams.

Every player in Europe plays against the small teams, so Ronaldo isn't gifted in that regard.
Also Ronaldo has been playing most of his career in Portugal with companions such as Postiga, Hugo Almeida, etc. He would die for half Higuain.

I think Messi and Ronaldo records are both amazing, but for the sake of showing how the "Ronaldo only has it because he plays monthly against the Vatican" let's see Messi:

**************

69 goals in 91 games, it's great and he doesn't play against Sealand like Ronaldo, so let's see:

Ronaldo has no goals vs Brazil, how pathetic, in a grand total of 3 games (2 friendlies and 1 competitive).
5 goals vs Brazil
Wow 5 goals in 11 games (6 friendlies, 2 in Copa America, 3 in WC qualifying) the many WC qualifiers and the yearly Copa Amerricas over the years? No, all goals are from the friendlies. Weird.

Ronaldo has 3 goals in 2 games vs Switzerland, one a WC qualifier that qualified Portugal for WC and the other was the Nations League semifinal.
3 goals vs Switzerland
A good european team and Messi has the same amount of goals! Oh, was a friendly

Ronaldo has 3 goals in 5 games (3 competitive and 2 friendlies)
2 goals vs Spain
Nice... ah scored in 2 of the 3 friendlies, never played competitive vs Spain

Ronaldo has 1 goal in a friendly vs Croatia, played 3 times (2 friendlies and 1 in Euro)
2 vs Croatia!
2 friendlies and 1 WC game, maybe he... no he scored in the 2 friendlies

Ronaldo never scored vs France! He had 4 games: 2 friendlies, 1 WC semi-final and 1 Euro final where he barely played as he left injured. Sad performances vs a team Portugal didn't beat for 40 years until 2016!
1 goal vs France
Messi did it! 1 Friendly and 1 WC game, maybe he did score in the... nope, he scored in the friendly again. Hmm.

Ronaldo never scored against Germany, the loser! All competitive games, 2 in WC and 2 in Euro.
1 goal vs Germany
Lionel did it again. Messi had 4 games, 2 friendlies and 2 WC games, this time maybe? No, he scored in one of the friendlies. But

Ronaldo has 2 friendlies against Argentina, scored 1 goal.
1 goal vs Portugal
Messi also played those 2 friendlies and also got 1 goal. But Ronaldo was lucky have been partnered with a 31 year old Danny and Hugo Almeida while Messi had to bear up with Lavezzi and that fraud Higuain so it's not fair.

Ronaldo didn't score in 2 friendly games vs Italy, a team Portugal generally does well if you exclude those 30 years Portugal was unable to beat it and all the other remaining ones except the last because God Èder too
Messi didn't too because he never played Italy otherwise it would have been in a competitive game of course.


So in total Messi has 33 goals in 46 friendlies. So 48% of Messi's goals come from friendlies. And Ronaldo in friendlies has 17 goals in 47 games (17% of total). Messi the friendly GOAT.


But look Messi is very good vs a good team such as Uruguay!
4 goals nice! All goals in WC qualifiying! He only needed 8 games vs Uruguay for that. And none in Copa America.
3 goals vs Chile! In 9 games. All goals in WC qualifying, maybe one in the last 10 Copa editions in the last 5 years would have been handy.
3 goals vs Colombia! In 9 games. All goals in WC qualifying.

Who the hell does he score against in Copa America then. Let's see:

1 goal vs Peru
1 goal vs Mexico
2 goals vs Paraguay
3 goals vs Panama
1 goal vs Venezuela
1 goal vs United States

Erm... ok let's see the WC goals

1 goal vs Serbia-Montenegro
1 goal vs Bosnia-Herzegovina
1 goal vs Iran
3 goals vs Nigeria


But but let's see the fraud Ronaldo

Euro final stage goals:

1 goal vs Greece
3 goals vs Netherlands
2 goals vs Czech Republic
2 goals vs Hungary
1 goal vs Wales

Netherlands, Panama, it's the same, it's all about canals.

WC goals:

1 goal vs Iran
1 goal vs North Korea
1 goal vs Ghana
3 goals vs Spain
1 goal vs Morocco

No knockout stage goals ha! Oh wait Messi too. 3 goals in 2 games vs Nigeria is better than 3 goals in 1 game vs Spain that Portugal didn't even win that game so it's a draw.



Messi the clear OG. While Ronaldo has it easy to be honoured to play Andorras in the qualifying forcefully as Portugal isn't unable to break them without him Messi has to lead Argentina to glory in tough friendlies vs Haiti and Hong Kong.
Did I mention yet that Ronaldo was being fed on a plate by world class idols such as Postiga, Hugo Almeida and geriatric Liedson while Messi had to babysit rocks with eyes such as Milito, Tévez, Aguero, Higuain and other log-footed minerals that had the biggest achievement in their carreers when Messi honours them by calling them to the Argentina national team.


*************

This post is supposed to be sarcastic and only half serious.
Messi's record in the national team is fantastic. I don't want to play it down at all.

So is Ronaldo's while always being out down because he happens to play against some teams many people laugh at, like Luxembourg (he scored today vs them), a team that drew vs France in Paris last year before France went on to be WC.
Messi has more goals vs top teams than Ronaldo but if you look well all (!) of them were friendlies and Ronaldo played less games and/or more competitive games vs them than Messi.
Look at Brazil. Messi played them 5 times in competitive games, never scored and had 1 draw and 4 defeats. Ronaldo had only 1 competitive game, a WC game that was a draw.
In the other 2 friendlies Ronaldo had he didn't score too and 1 was a victory and another a defeat. Messi had 6 friendlies, 4 victories and 2 defeats. In those 6 friendlies, he scored in 3 of them (with an hattrick once).
Is Messi good vs Brazil? Yes he is, even if he didn't score in 8 of the 11 games he had against them. Is Ronaldo bad against Brazil? I don't know, he barely played them, only 3 games. Yet this is used to attack Ronaldo.

Yes, Ronaldo would struggle playing in instagramless oblivion Bolivia and would puke because of the lack of oxygen(-ated water for his hair) at the ISS, so would Messi struggle to score in Kazakhstan 2 light-years away from home while fearing the mongol horde next door might come at any moment to loot his tax-evaded hoard.

No matter how many goals Cristiano, or Messi for that matter, score in these kinds of games, historically they will always lag behind the very best internationally when they haven't scored in the knockout stages of the World Cup. Euros/Copa America can be hard to compare, but the World Cup is the one everyone is in and of equal footing. Sure some teams are better than others, but hasn't stopped Stoichkov, Forlan, Suker, Modric etc from standing out. It's a failure of Ronaldo and Messi in that regard not to have scored at that level, probably the biggest blots on their CVs, and means they're behind the best internationally like Pele, Maradona and Ronaldo.