Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

P-Nut · Nov 15, 2019

Jesus this threads a shambles.

momo83 said:
Anyways. What I’m talking about in regards to Ole’s style is that he is one dimensional...as a manager once he is done no manager in history will have done as much to regress this great club then Ole

How on earth have you come to this conclusion? What player has Ole sold that you think should have stayed? What player has been bought that you wish we hadn't? Which players have got long contracts that you think will mean we're stuck with them? Any kids you'd rather we wouldn't have played due to them not being good enough, and wasting the opportunities of others?

Whilst I'm not over the moon with the results (I don't think anyone is) it is still clear to see what Ole is trying to do, and that can only be a positive for a club that's been a joke recently.

I'll spell out what I believe he's trying to do to avoid the inevitable comeback.

Build a harmonious squad - Even during our worse start to a season there were no stories in the press about infighting in the changing rooms etc.

Reduce the amount of aging deadwood - Matic frozen out, Sanchez shipped off however possible, Valencia gone, Darmian gone

Build towards a specific style - Letting Lukaku leave and not getting a replacement has cost us points at times this season, but the experience of being the most senior striker for Martial could be massive for this club, and help us get to this progressive style everyone so badly wants, something that would never happen with Lukaku in the side.

Bed in youngsters - Chances to Williams, Chong, Gomes, Greenwood, Garner. As well as buying AWB and James, whilst giving more responsibility to Martial, Pereira and Tuanzabe. We've had the lowest average age matchday squad in most premier league weeks, something that can only help us going forward, when we have a necessity in a certain area we can afford to buy an experienced player without worrying about all our squad aging at the same time.

But no, you're right, Ole will leave us in a worse position :rolleyes:

Bobcat · Nov 15, 2019

b82REZ said:
You clearly don't watch much of the Championship, it's a very competitive and demanding league. If anything, with the lesser quality of the players, its harder to implement different tactics on a squad.

Over coaching is better than seemingly no coaching whatsoever. At least there was a plan and style under LvG albeit a very dull style. But having said that, Solskjaer has hardly got us playing Total Football. The football is often as tumescent as LvG, whilst also having us languishing between mid table and the bottom half.

For all the things you blame LvG for, Ole is equally as guilty of similar things. He has persisted with underperforming players as much as van Gaal. You seem to have different standards for the two managers, despite an awful lot of similarities between their tenures.

The higher the quality, the worse you will get punished for trying something silly. Are you saying Sunday League football is more tactically demanding than the Premiership?

And you say "seemingly" no style/coaching just because you dont want to see it. Even after Oles first 5 games there were loads of articles in various football sites detailing his tactical approach and how it differed from Jose. There have no doubt been some dreadful attacking performances this season, but i have yet to see Ole lambast a player for shooting first time and playing on instinct or kill any signs of individual creativity by forcing his "philosophy" so far down their throat they look like robots

And him persisting with bad players is out of necessity rather than choice. Young would not have played if Shaw was fit, and even now it seems an academy player is taking his place. Pereria as a #10 is because the options are no better, same can be said for Fred.

UNITED ACADEMY · Nov 15, 2019

Andycoleno9 said:
All those players Ole wanted out because he decided that they are not good for his pacey, attacking high pressing football. And instead of them he got 3 new players. So if those players are that shit then that 2nd place is even bigger thing, no?
That 2nd place is relevant when every pro Ole poster is saying that this squad is shit and that top 4 is too much to ask. One poster said that Jesus could not do it (so Jose is Jesus i guess?).

This kind of stuff is what has mixed people mind. There is no statement if Ole wanted them out. Ole might want them to stay but they chose no and prefer join a CL club.

Anyway some of those players (Lukaku & Sanchez) should have never been signed in the first place since both of them have stall the development of Martial & Rashford. Jose signed those two because he wanted instant success or make sure he can get a top 4. He didn't aim for the long term success of the club. That's why we achieved that 2nd place when he signed Lukaku, Sanchez & Matic.

However, what is good of those signings if it only gives you 2nd place for one season? Clearly it turned up as disaster for the following season. Players like Sanchez & Matic are now considered as deadwood, money were wasted & last season we were out of CL spot. What Jose did wasn't working at the end of the day.

Andycoleno9 said:
Because our squad is good enough to be in top 4. And because Man Utd should never ever accept anything bellow that.
To build a squad to challenge Liverpool and City needs time but top4 should be a must.

People need to realise that our squad is different to when we finished 2nd spot. Our main attackers are now James, Martial & Rashford not Lukaku or even Sanchez/Mkhy/Lingard. Our midfield is not Matic & Herrera anymore. The back four is not exactly the same anymore.

What Ole is doing right now is the opposite what Jose did. Instead of going for instant achievement, he's thinking about the long term future achievement for the benefit of the club.

Do I think we will get top 4? I do. However, I don't think top 4 is really necessary for us to get closer to City & Liverpool. If we don't get top 4 but as long as there is sign of improvement in the players especially our young players are getting the benefit for their development and becoming the better players the next following season then it's also part of progress. None of our players in XI except Pogba will leave if we don't get top 4, we might not be able to make mega signing type of players but Daniel James type of signing is another signing that we can make to improve our squad even without CL football.

Orange Tree · Nov 15, 2019

Keep Ole until it's mathematically impossible to reach CL. He might just turn it around.

It's not like there is any good manager that can start right away.

b82REZ · Nov 15, 2019

Bobcat said:
The higher the quality, the worse you will get punished for trying something silly. Are you saying Sunday League football is more tactically demanding than the Premiership?

And you say "seemingly" no style/coaching just because you dont want to see it. Even after Oles first 5 games there were loads of articles in various football sites detailing his tactical approach and how it differed from Jose. There have no doubt been some dreadful attacking performances this season, but i have yet to see Ole lambast a player for shooting first time and playing on instinct or kill any signs of individual creativity by forcing his "philosophy" so far down their throat they look like robots

And him persisting with bad players is out of necessity rather than choice. Young would not have played if Shaw was fit, and even now it seems an academy player is taking his place. Pereria as a #10 is because the options are no better, same can be said for Fred.

What an absolute absurd statement. Of course I want to see the style and coaching being implemented, but there's nothing except the mythical plan. I'm a Manchester United supporter and I will always want what's best for the team, but I'm not blinded by sentimentality like many people on here are.

Even some of Solskjaer staunchest supporters acknowledge that he won't win the league here, so why persist with him? Because he's a legend and he isn't as brusque as Jose? Any manager needs to be there on merit, yet the way you're making excuses for him, is frankly, quite pathetic.

M Bison · Nov 15, 2019

b82REZ said:
What an absolute absurd statement. Of course I want to see the style and coaching being implemented, but there's nothing except the mythical plan. I'm a Manchester United supporter and I will always want what's best for the team, but I'm not blinded by sentimentality like many people on here are.

Even some of Solskjaer staunchest supporters acknowledge that he won't win the league here, so why persist with him? Because he's a legend and he isn't as brusque as Jose? Any manager needs to be there on merit, yet the way you're making excuses for him, is frankly, quite pathetic.

I doubt Ole will win the league, however i dont think he should be sacked, certainly not at this point. If you were in charge, would you genuinely sack him now?

b82REZ · Nov 15, 2019

M Bison said:
I doubt Ole will win the league, however i dont think he should be sacked, certainly not at this point. If you were in charge, would you genuinely sack him now?

Yes, I've been quite clear about that. Why waste time on someone who is not going to get us back to the top?

I don't see any improvement and I don't give him credit for the transfers like many do as I feel he over paid massively on two of them.

It's quite clear that a large percentage are letting their hearts dictate their reasoning when it comes to Solskjaer. Mourinho was fired despite being better off in the league. He needed to go but we set a dangerous precedent because it was quite clear at the time that player power forced the board to act.

I'd love for him to prove me wrong and I'd be the first to eat humble pie, but regression over 12 months suggest he isn't cut out, even for the short term.

el3mel · Nov 15, 2019

I have honestly never seen a long term plan that means fecking up the squad in mean time so as long as future will look bright. Usually long term plan means gradual progression from season to season in terms of squad and results, not mass selling players, leaving the squad in thread thin fecked up state, that will need a +300m spent in upcoming transfer windows (especially with Pogba most probably leaving next season and Adidas money being cut thanks to missing CL 2 seasons in a row if we don't qualify) to become a regular top 4 team. What long term plan is this ? If it's present then it must be a shite one. No one destroys the entire building and sleeps in street so that he can buy a better house in the future.

Vault Dweller · Nov 15, 2019

P-Nut said:
Jesus this threads a shambles.

How on earth have you come to this conclusion? What player has Ole sold that you think should have stayed? What player has been bought that you wish we hadn't? Which players have got long contracts that you think will mean we're stuck with them? Any kids you'd rather we wouldn't have played due to them not being good enough, and wasting the opportunities of others?

Whilst I'm not over the moon with the results (I don't think anyone is) it is still clear to see what Ole is trying to do, and that can only be a positive for a club that's been a joke recently.

I'll spell out what I believe he's trying to do to avoid the inevitable comeback.

Build a harmonious squad - Even during our worse start to a season there were no stories in the press about infighting in the changing rooms etc.

Reduce the amount of aging deadwood - Matic frozen out, Sanchez shipped off however possible, Valencia gone, Darmian gone

Build towards a specific style - Letting Lukaku leave and not getting a replacement has cost us points at times this season, but the experience of being the most senior striker for Martial could be massive for this club, and help us get to this progressive style everyone so badly wants, something that would never happen with Lukaku in the side.

Bed in youngsters - Chances to Williams, Chong, Gomes, Greenwood, Garner. As well as buying AWB and James, whilst giving more responsibility to Martial, Pereira and Tuanzabe. We've had the lowest average age matchday squad in most premier league weeks, something that can only help us going forward, when we have a necessity in a certain area we can afford to buy an experienced player without worrying about all our squad aging at the same time.

But no, you're right, Ole will leave us in a worse position

Good post.

Tom Cato · Nov 15, 2019

TheBlamelessOle said:
We wont attract the right players even with Champions League qualification if Ole is manager because:
A. He is xenophobic
B. He is not a top coach
C. He isn't assertive enough to demand it.

Now i know that all of his defenders will cry that Jose demanded it and got fired, so I will introduce something called context, as the addition of it usually destroys your dumb arguments like "SAF was given 4 years."

How? The point alone is true, but when i add the following pieces of information, your argument dies.
1.SAF remains to this day the last manager to win the Scottish League with a club from outside the Old Firm
2. His achievements with Aberdeen arguably outweigh what he did at United
3. He had to weed out a problematic culture that caused systemic rot
4. He is arguably the greatest manager of all time
5. He learned from foreign managers
6. He had better owners
7. He was assertive enough and had the personality to carry out the job.

Moreover, to those who will say that United has a problematic culture leading to systemic rot, I agree with you. But that culture and rot are something of which Ole is a part.

Additionally, this entire "give him time" narrative would be justified if Ole had the personality & assertiveness to demand the required changes. Unlike Mourinho and LVG, the media environment he faces is one of blind support while the same people wanted their heads on pikes practically from day 1.

Given that these people demand unconditional support of Ole, they should assist him by making sure he gets the tools needed. I've yet to hear any of them(Schmeichel, Scholes, Rio, Neville) advocate the removal of Woodward completely let alone name the Glazer family a problem. They've not suggested transfers to be bought in, number of players needed, DOF (Neville tbf has, but he flip flops).

Ole hasn't demanded either, in fact, he has lied about the Glazers investing money (not a penny of their own and only 14% of the club's revenue since 2013). Even when Gary Neville (whom i despise) tried to give him an out during their recent NKTV audition by talking about the structure. Ole said he's happy with the structure. This leaves 1 of 2 possible explanations:

A. He is
B. He's lying

Neither one is good. He has said repeatedly that money is there and that he chose to not replace Lukaku. Again, he is lying or being honest. Either way it means he's dishonest or deluded.

We need a manager who is willing to either utilise the influence of the co92 for positive or to cut the chord on their influence. We need an outsider and just because Jose and LVG didn't succeed in your eyes, I'd sooner have another big name who can handle the job than a yes man who puts his salary over the club.

This whole post reads like a insanitywolf meme. But I have a lot to say about this so I'll get back to you in a little while!

b82REZ · Nov 15, 2019

el3mel said:
I have honestly never seen a long term plan that means fecking up the squad in mean time so as long as future will look bright. Usually long term plan means gradual progression from season to season in terms of squad and results, not mass selling players, leaving the squad in thread thin fecked up state, that will need a +300m spent in upcoming transfer windows (especially with Pogba most probably leaving next season and Adidas money being cut thanks to missing CL 2 seasons in a row if we don't qualify) to become a regular top 4 team. What long term plan is this ? If it's present then it must be a shite one. No one destroys the entire building and sleeps in street so that he can buy a better house in the future.

Exactly.

It wouldn't be tolerated if it were any other manager and certainly wouldn't be tolerated at any other club.

One area of progression I will acknowledge is that Solskjaer has consistently and successfully lowered standards to the point I've seen people say top 10 is an excellent season. In August the consensus on here was top 4 was on the table because of Chelsea having a transfer ban and Lampard being less experienced that Ole. Fast forward 3 months and we arw witnessing Chelsea successfully implementing the style and philosophy that Solksjaer talks about, while we struggle to.

USREDEVIL · Nov 15, 2019

Expectations should be based on fact, not name or history. So yes the expectations adjust based on what the squad looks like with players, injuries etc. Not hard to understand. We're still doing below what I expected this year but we can turn it around.

bleedred · Nov 15, 2019

We never ever heard the sentence,”stop blaming moyes, start hating glazers” during his tenure.

Everyone knew he was incompetent and his ideas were poor and had to go, irrespective of the players we sign or the money we spend.

I mean that’s the same yardstick for ole, the buck stops with the manager. It’s not like if we get competent owners and get better players, Moyes/Ole would make them champions. They are both bang average managers and the fact that one is an ex-player/legend shouldn’t make any difference to their managerial abilities.

Bobcat · Nov 15, 2019

b82REZ said:
What an absolute absurd statement. Of course I want to see the style and coaching being implemented, but there's nothing except the mythical plan. I'm a Manchester United supporter and I will always want what's best for the team, but I'm not blinded by sentimentality like many people on here are.

Even some of Solskjaer staunchest supporters acknowledge that he won't win the league here, so why persist with him? Because he's a legend and he isn't as brusque as Jose? Any manager needs to be there on merit, yet the way you're making excuses for him, is frankly, quite pathetic.

What is absurd? We quite clearly have a style of play, but the issue is that we've not been able to carry out that plan at times. Every team looks clueless and without a style when they are losing. And its not fecking sentimentality. Do you honestly believe there is some nefarious "Cult of Ole" out there who will sacrifice everything just so we could have an ex-player in the chair?

If a manager needs to be here on merit. Who then do we hire? Who has a proven track record of rebuilding fallen giants? I can think of one, unfortunately hes managing our greatest rivals right now. So say if we sack Ole tomorrow and the next guy does not instantly improve us, do we sack him as well? What good manager then in their right mind would want to take a rebuilding job where they are afforded no time and risk getting their reputation tarnished. No one, i would wager

I you find my support pathetic thats fine. Personally i find fairweather fans who cant handle the slightest bit of adversity pathetic, but thats just my opinion

Tel074 · Nov 15, 2019

b82REZ said:
Ahh that explains a lot.

Just because a lot us recognise Solskjaer is not the man to take this team forward I don't think you'll find a single person who doesn't attribute the majority of the blame at the feet of Woodward and the Glazers.

These two problems are not one and the same. Ole is not a good enough manager for us and the board and owners are useless bafoons who couldn't arrange a piss up in a brewery, changes are needed at every level of the club.

I totally agree about the owners and maybe you are correct about Ole but at the current time he is doing what we need with regards to the squad . January will be interesting to see if we actually have a transfer plan or if it's the usual BS

M Bison · Nov 15, 2019

b82REZ said:
Yes, I've been quite clear about that. Why waste time on someone who is not going to get us back to the top?

I don't see any improvement and I don't give him credit for the transfers like many do as I feel he over paid massively on two of them.

It's quite clear that a large percentage are letting their hearts dictate their reasoning when it comes to Solskjaer. Mourinho was fired despite being better off in the league. He needed to go but we set a dangerous precedent because it was quite clear at the time that player power forced the board to act.

I'd love for him to prove me wrong and I'd be the first to eat humble pie, but regression over 12 months suggest he isn't cut out, even for the short term.

Fair do's.

The issue i'd have with sacking him now is who and how do we replace him? Who on earth would want to come to us? We wouldnt be able to entice anyone who is on the up as its a massive risk to their managerial career if they arent going to be given a fair chance if it doesnt go to plan immediately, so we'd end up with someone who is in it for the short-term (like a Mourinho).

C'est Moi Cantona · Nov 15, 2019

Tel074 said:
I think we do . The clear out on the summer the 3 positive signings plus DDG new deal . Man United should be smashing top 4 I agree but this United has been run into the ground and the squad we have shouldn't be smashing top 4.

Stop the Ole hate . Start the Glazer hate

You don't need to tell me that, I have been banging this drum all along, the only thing I can't buy into is that we need to patient whilst we build some great new future, it's just rubbish.

We have the same setup, same Ed Woodward, same owners caring about everything but the football, but only this time under a less experienced manager, so I am not going to just blindly hope things are about to get better, and 'see where we are this time next year', whilst there is nothing to suggest anything is going to change much overall.

Tel074 · Nov 15, 2019

C'est Moi Cantona said:
You don't need to tell me that, I have been banging this drum all along, the only thing I can't buy into is that we need to patient whilst we build some great new future, it's just rubbish.

We have the same setup, same Ed Woodward, same owners caring about everything but the football, but only this time under a less experienced manager, so I am not going to just blindly hope things are about to get better, and 'see where we are this time next year', whilst there is nothing to suggest anything is going to change much overall.

Yeah maybe true but Ed and the Glazers are not going anywhere anytime soon . So being patient now is all we have because sacking Ole now is just madness . No manager in the world could challenge with the squad we have so it would take time with anyone in charge

momo83 · Nov 15, 2019

Leftback99 said:
So quality of players matters now? I thought we should see these famed 'patterns of play' regardless. I'll remember that next time I hear injuries to our best players is 'just an excuse'.

The fastest swimmer wins the race when the gap is big enough. In professional swimming the fastest swimmer can lose due lack of technique... stop being wilfully obtuse and you’ll understand my point even if you don’t agree with it.

momo83 · Nov 15, 2019

P-Nut said:
Jesus this threads a shambles.

How on earth have you come to this conclusion? What player has Ole sold that you think should have stayed? What player has been bought that you wish we hadn't? Which players have got long contracts that you think will mean we're stuck with them? Any kids you'd rather we wouldn't have played due to them not being good enough, and wasting the opportunities of others?

Whilst I'm not over the moon with the results (I don't think anyone is) it is still clear to see what Ole is trying to do, and that can only be a positive for a club that's been a joke recently.

I'll spell out what I believe he's trying to do to avoid the inevitable comeback.

Build a harmonious squad - Even during our worse start to a season there were no stories in the press about infighting in the changing rooms etc.

Reduce the amount of aging deadwood - Matic frozen out, Sanchez shipped off however possible, Valencia gone, Darmian gone

Build towards a specific style - Letting Lukaku leave and not getting a replacement has cost us points at times this season, but the experience of being the most senior striker for Martial could be massive for this club, and help us get to this progressive style everyone so badly wants, something that would never happen with Lukaku in the side.

Bed in youngsters - Chances to Williams, Chong, Gomes, Greenwood, Garner. As well as buying AWB and James, whilst giving more responsibility to Martial, Pereira and Tuanzabe. We've had the lowest average age matchday squad in most premier league weeks, something that can only help us going forward, when we have a necessity in a certain area we can afford to buy an experienced player without worrying about all our squad aging at the same time.

But no, you're right, Ole will leave us in a worse position

Let Lukaku go I agree with. But if the plan is to sign either Maduzic or Haaland then it don’t make sense.

Should have kept Herrera. Should have identified a CM before selling Fellaini knowing that he might ALSO be losing Herrera 6 months later.

momo83 · Nov 15, 2019

b82REZ said:
Exactly.

It wouldn't be tolerated if it were any other manager and certainly wouldn't be tolerated at any other club.

One area of progression I will acknowledge is that Solskjaer has consistently and successfully lowered standards to the point I've seen people say top 10 is an excellent season. In August the consensus on here was top 4 was on the table because of Chelsea having a transfer ban and Lampard being less experienced that Ole. Fast forward 3 months and we arw witnessing Chelsea successfully implementing the style and philosophy that Solksjaer talks about, while we struggle to.

In May people said give him one window and see. It was widely accepted that expectations were 4th, or 5th maybe 6th but with caveat of seeing a good style of play...

But this is like going to a lawyer he tells you “don’t worry i know my stuff I’ll make sure you’ll be found not guilty of speeding”. Then 6 months later he tells you. “Look you’ll have to spend 3 years in jail but don’t worry I have a plan and you’ll be found not guilty of speeding at the end of it”

r3idy · Nov 15, 2019

Losing Herrera, no matter how much a fan favourite when he was holding out for a reported 300k a week was exactly the right thing to do. Even £200k a week for a midfielder full of heart but limited on ability would have been insanity.

Bobcat · Nov 16, 2019

momo83 said:
Let Lukaku go I agree with. But if the plan is to sign either Maduzic or Haaland then it don’t make sense.

Should have kept Herrera. Should have identified a CM before selling Fellaini knowing that he might ALSO be losing Herrera 6 months later.

If we sign Haaland it makes plenty of sense. Lukaku on his day is alright, but if Haaland lives up to his potential hes going to be twice the player Lukaku is. Just because both are tall does not make them equal or even very similar.

EdWeatherall · Nov 16, 2019

51.3 Sack
48.7 Keep

I see this has narrowed after a few wins

lysglimt · Nov 16, 2019

r3idy said:
Losing Herrera, no matter how much a fan favourite when he was holding out for a reported 300k a week was exactly the right thing to do. Even £200k a week for a midfielder full of heart but limited on ability would have been insanity.

This has been denied by Herrera. He said it was never about Money - it simply was that he wasn't offered a contract until after OGS came in, and by then he had already decided to go to PSG. So this was either a mistake by Woodward or / and Mourinho. We will probably not know until one of them speaks about it in a few years or so.

Red Devil's Advocate · Nov 18, 2019

ReddBalls said:
I'll answer this, as it is regarding the points I made. How can you claim that Solskjær has no record of buidling a squad? Ole built Molde from top to bottom culturally and squad wise and got them their very first league trophy. He followed that with another league trophy the year after, and since then they have won the league twice with the very same spine Solskjær established in his time there.

Oh, and in 2013, when they finished 6th, he still won the cup (which is of equal prominence to the FA cup in England). The second time they finished 6th under Solskjær, he took Molde to the quarter finals of the EL winning a group consisting of Ajax (EL final the year after), Fenerbahce and Celtic. In the quarter finals that year they lost to Sevilla, who won the tournament. His record in the Norwegian league is 1-1-6-6-2-2. An average league position of 3rd, two trophies and two runner-up spots is hardly midtable.

Obviously, The Norwegian league is a lot weaker than the Prem, but contrary to England, Norway has this juggernaut called Rosenborg. The Bayern, Juventus or Celtic of Norway, which has infinitely more resources than all the other clubs in the league. Guess who won the league between Molde's wins? Yep. Rosenborg. It's not as Molde is a particulary rich club either, in 2017 for instance, they only had the fifth largest budget in the league.

Solskjær winning the league in Norway has similarities to Fergie winning the league in Scotland with Aberdeen og Klopp winning in Germany with Dortmund. It does not make him either one of those, but it at least shows that he has the ability to build a winning culture at a club, recruit the right type of players and coach them. Taking on Bayern, Celtic/Rangers or Rosenborg requires the same winners instinct, regardless of the quality of the league.

On a side note: Almost everyone here wants Haaland. Guess who recruited him to Molde, gave him his first senior appearances and coached him? Right. And if Solskjær is a shit manager because he only proved himself in a shit league, why do people even want Haaland anyway? He is playing for a dominant team in an equally shit league. He'll obviously be out of depth in the PL, just like championship level player Daniel James.

Cardiff was a disaster, but the club was in total meltdown when he took over. They had only won 3 of 20 games at that time. The challenge was monumental and he did not succeed. But who would? Only a miracle greater than Leicester's great escape under Pearson would make that happen. Is Klopp and Pochettino relegation standard managers because they both got relegated at one time? Would you rather have Nigel Pearson as United manager because he avoided relegation when it was certain? Do you see how absurd this line of thinking is?

The Cardiff stint even has a silver lining. Willingness to take on such a challenge and coping with it shows that he has a strong character and is able to work under the immense pressure he no doubt experiences at United.

None of the things mentioned here makes him a better manager than Rodgers, but elaborates on my previous point on the different characteristics of the jobs they have taken.

TL;DR: Claiming Solskjær has no record of building a squad and was a midtable manager in Norway is bullcrap. Cardiff would have been relegated anyway.

PS! United actually had similarities with both Molde and Cardiff when Ole got hired: A nearly club for the last 6 years (Molde was that for even longer) in total meltdown.

Respect!! Take a bow for your elaborate insights.

momo83 · Nov 18, 2019

Bobcat said:
If we sign Haaland it makes plenty of sense. Lukaku on his day is alright, but if Haaland lives up to his potential hes going to be twice the player Lukaku is. Just because both are tall does not make them equal or even very similar.

Haaland style is very similar to Lukaku. Saying that offended a lot of snowflakes on the Haaland Transfer (propaganda) thread... and I’ve been given time out there because his fanboys are clearly very sensitive to anything that doesn’t agree with him being a once in a century talent

ash_86 · Nov 18, 2019

momo83 said:
Haaland style is very similar to Lukaku. Saying that offended a lot of snowflakes on the Haaland Transfer (propaganda) thread... and I’ve been given time out there because his fanboys are clearly very sensitive to anything that doesn’t agree with him being a once in a century talent

Even if that's the case it's not a bad thing to have similar style to Lukaku. Someone with this style and technicality to back it up is going to smash it anywhere. Problem with Lukaku is that he didn't have the latter. We need different versions of forwards with different attributes if we want to challenge for absolute top.

Bobcat · Nov 18, 2019

momo83 said:
Haaland style is very similar to Lukaku. Saying that offended a lot of snowflakes on the Haaland Transfer (propaganda) thread... and I’ve been given time out there because his fanboys are clearly very sensitive to anything that doesn’t agree with him being a once in a century talent

Fair enough, but even if we assume hes very similar to Lukaku and no better, is that a bad thing? He offers something different to Martial and having someone big up front against teams that sit deep can be the difference between a draw and a win.

Besides, the problem with Lukaku was not so much his ability to score goals, but rather his rotten attitude

midnightmare · Nov 18, 2019

momo83 said:
Haaland style is very similar to Lukaku. Saying that offended a lot of snowflakes on the Haaland Transfer (propaganda) thread... and I’ve been given time out there because his fanboys are clearly very sensitive to anything that doesn’t agree with him being a once in a century talent

Eh? Just because he's big and strong? He's also got a good first touch, has great acceleration, is good with back to goal, can hold off defenders, judges headers well and has good agility. He's more like an overgrown Rooney than a more-skilled Lukaku in my opinion. Do try and look beyond the basics of "big and strong, so another Lukaku". Secondly, as others have pointed out, it's not as if we should be opposed to having a big and strong striker. People moan about our lacking "Plan B" and some even bemoan the sale of Lukaku. Why then object to having a guy like Haaland who could be key to unlocking defences that are sitting deep and not offering us space to run into?

theklr · Nov 18, 2019

momo83 said:
Haaland style is very similar to Lukaku. Saying that offended a lot of snowflakes on the Haaland Transfer (propaganda) thread... and I’ve been given time out there because his fanboys are clearly very sensitive to anything that doesn’t agree with him being a once in a century talent

If that means he will get 15 + goals each season against low/mid-table teams its all good.

momo83 · Nov 18, 2019

theklr said:
If that means he will get 15 + goals each season against low/mid-table teams its all good.

No comment. Got banned from Haaland transfer thread after 3 post and received a warning for my post on here when I mentioned that transfer thread was a bit soft.

momo83 · Nov 18, 2019

midnightmare said:
Eh? Just because he's big and strong? He's also got a good first touch, has great acceleration, is good with back to goal, can hold off defenders, judges headers well and has good agility. He's more like an overgrown Rooney than a more-skilled Lukaku in my opinion. Do try and look beyond the basics of "big and strong, so another Lukaku". Secondly, as others have pointed out, it's not as if we should be opposed to having a big and strong striker. People moan about our lacking "Plan B" and some even bemoan the sale of Lukaku. Why then object to having a guy like Haaland who could be key to unlocking defences that are sitting deep and not offering us space to run into?

No comment.

Jonno · Nov 18, 2019

ReddBalls said:
I'll answer this, as it is regarding the points I made. How can you claim that Solskjær has no record of buidling a squad? Ole built Molde from top to bottom culturally and squad wise and got them their very first league trophy. He followed that with another league trophy the year after, and since then they have won the league twice with the very same spine Solskjær established in his time there.

Oh, and in 2013, when they finished 6th, he still won the cup (which is of equal prominence to the FA cup in England). The second time they finished 6th under Solskjær, he took Molde to the quarter finals of the EL winning a group consisting of Ajax (EL final the year after), Fenerbahce and Celtic. In the quarter finals that year they lost to Sevilla, who won the tournament. His record in the Norwegian league is 1-1-6-6-2-2. An average league position of 3rd, two trophies and two runner-up spots is hardly midtable.

Obviously, The Norwegian league is a lot weaker than the Prem, but contrary to England, Norway has this juggernaut called Rosenborg. The Bayern, Juventus or Celtic of Norway, which has infinitely more resources than all the other clubs in the league. Guess who won the league between Molde's wins? Yep. Rosenborg. It's not as Molde is a particulary rich club either, in 2017 for instance, they only had the fifth largest budget in the league.

Solskjær winning the league in Norway has similarities to Fergie winning the league in Scotland with Aberdeen og Klopp winning in Germany with Dortmund. It does not make him either one of those, but it at least shows that he has the ability to build a winning culture at a club, recruit the right type of players and coach them. Taking on Bayern, Celtic/Rangers or Rosenborg requires the same winners instinct, regardless of the quality of the league.

On a side note: Almost everyone here wants Haaland. Guess who recruited him to Molde, gave him his first senior appearances and coached him? Right. And if Solskjær is a shit manager because he only proved himself in a shit league, why do people even want Haaland anyway? He is playing for a dominant team in an equally shit league. He'll obviously be out of depth in the PL, just like championship level player Daniel James.

Cardiff was a disaster, but the club was in total meltdown when he took over. They had only won 3 of 20 games at that time. The challenge was monumental and he did not succeed. But who would? Only a miracle greater than Leicester's great escape under Pearson would make that happen. Is Klopp and Pochettino relegation standard managers because they both got relegated at one time? Would you rather have Nigel Pearson as United manager because he avoided relegation when it was certain? Do you see how absurd this line of thinking is?

The Cardiff stint even has a silver lining. Willingness to take on such a challenge and coping with it shows that he has a strong character and is able to work under the immense pressure he no doubt experiences at United.

None of the things mentioned here makes him a better manager than Rodgers, but elaborates on my previous point on the different characteristics of the jobs they have taken.

TL;DR: Claiming Solskjær has no record of building a squad and was a midtable manager in Norway is bullcrap. Cardiff would have been relegated anyway.

PS! United actually had similarities with both Molde and Cardiff when Ole got hired: A nearly club for the last 6 years (Molde was that for even longer) in total meltdown.

Excellent post

Jonno · Nov 18, 2019

P-Nut said:
Jesus this threads a shambles.

How on earth have you come to this conclusion? What player has Ole sold that you think should have stayed? What player has been bought that you wish we hadn't? Which players have got long contracts that you think will mean we're stuck with them? Any kids you'd rather we wouldn't have played due to them not being good enough, and wasting the opportunities of others?

Whilst I'm not over the moon with the results (I don't think anyone is) it is still clear to see what Ole is trying to do, and that can only be a positive for a club that's been a joke recently.

I'll spell out what I believe he's trying to do to avoid the inevitable comeback.

Build a harmonious squad - Even during our worse start to a season there were no stories in the press about infighting in the changing rooms etc.

Reduce the amount of aging deadwood - Matic frozen out, Sanchez shipped off however possible, Valencia gone, Darmian gone

Build towards a specific style - Letting Lukaku leave and not getting a replacement has cost us points at times this season, but the experience of being the most senior striker for Martial could be massive for this club, and help us get to this progressive style everyone so badly wants, something that would never happen with Lukaku in the side.

Bed in youngsters - Chances to Williams, Chong, Gomes, Greenwood, Garner. As well as buying AWB and James, whilst giving more responsibility to Martial, Pereira and Tuanzabe. We've had the lowest average age matchday squad in most premier league weeks, something that can only help us going forward, when we have a necessity in a certain area we can afford to buy an experienced player without worrying about all our squad aging at the same time.

But no, you're right, Ole will leave us in a worse position

Excellent post. It's a shame posts like this don't fit in with many agendas on the Caff

Dike_Manc · Nov 18, 2019

Few reasons I'm willing to stick with Ole (at least for the time being):

We did the whole "tried and proven" managers approach twice and it did not work out.
Whether we would like to admit it or not, there is simply no easy fix to the situation we find ourselves in. So whoever we get will struggle initially.
He is excellent in the big games. Might be sucker punch tactics at times but I'm feeling more and more confident in them.
He has already made so many mistakes and has already learned from them. I'm not keen on getting someone new to commence with theirs.
Klopp and Guardiola type managers are simply not available. Lampard's doing well right now but things can quickly change in football. Just have a look at Pochettino.
We shouldn't be fooled by the smiles in public, he can be ruthless, he's shown that in the Summer window.
Saying the right stuff is important too. He conducts himself admirably and knows how to represent Manchester United, I personally value that.
I would not go as far as saying that he is good in the transfer market but he has bought young which indicates his intention to build and look to the future.

I could go on you know.
I do see the holes in my arguments but I'm just not convinced he has done enough to warrant being sacked right now (coming from someone who wanted DM, LVG and JM out ). I'm just tired of starting new but yielding old results.
Perhaps this is our time to support the team, be patient and enjoy the ride as we rise from the ashes to dominate England and Europe once more.

Andycoleno9 · Nov 19, 2019

But if we sack him now, who to hire? Who? Hm...? Who is available? Thinking.....

el3mel · Nov 19, 2019

Andycoleno9 said:
But if we sack him now, who to hire? Who? Hm...? Who is available? Thinking.....

At least this argument will die now.

Random Task · Nov 19, 2019

Andycoleno9 said:
But if we sack him now, who to hire? Who? Hm...? Who is available? Thinking.....

I don't think Poch getting sacked changes anything.

On what basis is Poch any more viable than the multitude of managers currently available, such as Allegri or Solari for example?

Ban · Nov 19, 2019

Random Task said:
I don't think Poch getting sacked changes anything.

On what basis is Poch any more viable than the multitude of managers currently available, such as Allegri or Solari for example?

I can't believe there are some who think Ed would fire Ole now just to get Poch. Not only that, Poch is damaged goods right now.

Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

Sack or Keep OLE?

Sack Ole & appoint new coach ASAP

Keep Ole & back him to finish rebuild

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