DM Alonso
CM Gerrard
B to B Keane
AM Yaya Toure
CM Gerrard
B to B Keane
AM Yaya Toure
PL's best midfielders
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
Expressly stated central midfield. And Scholes was world class in each of the roles.
Gerrard played a number of roles, he was a tactical liability in a lot of roles, which is why he was shuffled about a bit until he matured.
Nobody mentioned has the consistency/pedigree to the same degree. You can slap roles on a lot of players (Keane the CB, for example) but their effectiveness in those positions, if not to standard, does not make them versatile.
If we're expanding beyond central midfield, Scholes also has 5 positions to his name, being top class in 4 of them.
Better athlete? Roy Keane's engine was out of this world, which is where he could drive the team well beyond the 80 minute mark. Vieira and Keane don't really cross paths in how they played the role, anyway, as it's like comparing a distance runner with a middle distance one - the attributes don't have to overlap, although I think stamina is a huge asset in the greatest b2b midfielders and you won't find many with Keane's engine, let alone those who surpass it.
Modric is often forgotten as he got all the recognition at Real but there was a couple of seasons at Spurs where he was world class. Alonso as well except he wasnt here long.
Its 6 and two 3's between all these players but if you had Keane, Viera and Alonso I dont think anything short of a missile strike would get through. Kante is a better defensive player and Scholes, Modric, Lampard, Gerrard better offensively but these 3 could do both. True Box to Box players and if you had the same attack and defense these 3 would beat any other midfield combination most of the time.
Its 6 and two 3's between all these players but if you had Keane, Viera and Alonso I dont think anything short of a missile strike would get through. Kante is a better defensive player and Scholes, Modric, Lampard, Gerrard better offensively but these 3 could do both. True Box to Box players and if you had the same attack and defense these 3 would beat any other midfield combination most of the time.
Gerrard never excelled as a straight cm.
He did he won a CL, was named on the PFA team of the year countless times as a CM, to say Gerrard didn't excel as a CM is either a myth , or your definition of 'excelling' is one held by a very minute few in the history of football, Xavi, Matthaus and etc.
Gerrard excelled in anumber of roles, he was world class as a right midfielder, world class as a CM and AM, and had good seasons at both end of his career as a DM. For example in his 2nd to last season he played as a Deep lying playmaker, at 34, made it into the team of the year and on the ball did his best impression of a Scholes Pirlo lite, he was one of the best Dms in Europe that season, as he was at 20-21 breaking through.
Keane and Viera are probably the best, after Scholes Gerrard De Bruyne etc, not a huge gap between any of them though.
Lampards passing is the quality of his that gets underrated, not as good as Scholes or De Bruyne per se, but you look back at some of his videos and you'd be surprised just how many quality assists from terrific passes he made that best swooped under the radar to highlight other less glamorous qualities.
Spot on. It's a good discussion, but it would be interesting to get a take from outwith the fans of Utd/City/Liverpool/Arsenal/Chelsea.
And ended his career as a mainly defensive midfielder. Was never a winger and why bring it into the equation if him starting as a striker isn’t relevant?
I don't know about fans but whenever I hear ex-players speak about the 3 on TV, they almost always pick Scholes. A few pick Gerrard. With the exception of former Chelsea players, I have never heard a single one pick Lampard. I have great respect for Lampard but I don't think he's quite there with Scholes or Gerrard. It's Scholes hands down for me; of course, I'm biased but that's how I feel. The way he used to control games late in his career was a thing of beauty. I really miss watching him.
I don't disagree with your view there. Probably worth highlighting though that Gerrard has 8 PL team of the year awards, nominated by all the other players in the league, compared to Lampard's 3 and Scholes' 0.
I always found that odd, but I wonder whether that reflects on the style of English players at the time. If you asked Europeans to rate Scholes vs Lampard vs Gerrard I think the result would be overwhelmingly in favour of Scholes.
It's always Neville selling Scholes and Carragher selling Gerrard, and their guests going with one or the other - rinse and repeat. Ex-pros on TV is probably the least informative way to come to a conclusion about this.
Scholes being world class in each role is a contentious issue and had a whole thread on it. Scholes the world class CM was left out of the 1st team in some of our most vital games in 99 (champions league quarters away vs Inter, champs league semi away vs Juve) and was shuffled out of position for Veron. Gerrard was actually world class in his various roles and won countless individual accolades on both domestic and European stages, often making team of the season in both categories.
He wasnt a defensive midfielder. He was a deep lying playmaker, he still didnt defend and its another central role.
So basically Scholes could play centrally at various positions up the pitch, but didnt defend well in any of them and couldnt play away from central areas, on the sides
Someone like Andreas even has shown more versatility. He's played AM, CM, under Mourinho he stared some games as a DM, he's played on both wings for Valencia and on the right for us.
Nout to do with style. Gerrard prime came at a time when Xavi Iniesta etc were dominant and he was also rated alongside them including by the Europeans who named him in Fifa world 11s often. I don't want to reopen an old beef but Scholes has become a bit of a mythical player. Never was he regarded the best midfielder at United let alone player. He was often the one sacrificed or dropped by Sir Alex but people forget. Gerrard forced Scholes to retire from England. You HAD to play a Gerrard in every game. Scholes was often sacrificed for both club and country
Which is?
It's just a role variation. He's only great as attacking CM. Dont tell me he can do a box to box or a proper defensive midfielder duty. Keane was the more versatile, he can be everything to a good degree. Scholes would make a lousy DM
This is the answer.
I've never seen a player's reputation shoot up post-retirement like that. It's crazy.
It was partly because rival fans underrated him so much so it's a sort of backlash. Also his YouTube highlights are stunning as it combines his various great moments from 20 seasons, different roles, different skillsets into 1 montage.
Best midfielder - Paul Scholes
Best box to box midfielder - Roy Keane
The other best box to box midfielder - Michael Essien
Best defensive midfielder - N'golo Kante
Best box to box midfielder - Roy Keane
The other best box to box midfielder - Michael Essien
Best defensive midfielder - N'golo Kante
Ive argued this exact thing. No one from fans to peers to pundits put him in the top 10 players in the world at any time. He was never the go to name at united at any point when he was playing. Yet since he retired hes turned into a god that people put with zidane xavi etc. Its madness.
But he's not . He is no where near the best midfielder in PL history . You could argue best goalscorer from midfield but no where near all round best
Yaya Toure B2B ??
Robson.. but past his best when PL started unfortunately. Definitely by far the best all-around midfielder, can do everything so well.
Best midfielders:
Deep Playmaker the Regista - Scholes
Pure 6 - Makelele
Playmaker 10 - David Silva
Attacking - Yaya Toure
B2B - Keane and Viera, then Gerrard
Distanced Passer and Shooter - KDB
Goalscoring - Lampard
Holding - Xabi Alonso
Versatile - Fabregas
Disruptor - Kante
Coolest - Edgar Davids
Specialty roles - Fellaini (seriously he's the only one that can do what he can, can't think of another and it's effective)
Best midfielders:
Deep Playmaker the Regista - Scholes
Pure 6 - Makelele
Playmaker 10 - David Silva
Attacking - Yaya Toure
B2B - Keane and Viera, then Gerrard
Distanced Passer and Shooter - KDB
Goalscoring - Lampard
Holding - Xabi Alonso
Versatile - Fabregas
Disruptor - Kante
Coolest - Edgar Davids
Specialty roles - Fellaini (seriously he's the only one that can do what he can, can't think of another and it's effective)
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Not only the best goal scorer from midfield, but also the 2nd most assists from midfield in PL history. Football fans tend to mistake style for substance a lot of the time; a player that does a pass that looks incredible on the hawkeye camera will be seen as better than one that contributed to the match in a more decisive and tangible fashion.
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Keane and Vieira were so far ahead of everyone else in the PL for such a long time it has to be one of them. They dominated their positions with a style and consistency that I don't think has been matched since and also were key captains in historic achievements for their clubs. The captain of the Treble winners and the captain of the Invincibles. Their consistency was unmatched.
Gerrard, Lampard, Scholes, Yaya, Kante, De Bruyne, Essien, Cesc all deserve mentions. They didn't perhaps do enough in terms of longetivity but peak Ince and Petit were absolute class at times and could dominate games.
I'll go with Keano though
Gerrard, Lampard, Scholes, Yaya, Kante, De Bruyne, Essien, Cesc all deserve mentions. They didn't perhaps do enough in terms of longetivity but peak Ince and Petit were absolute class at times and could dominate games.
I'll go with Keano though
I loved Lampard, not the most naturally gifted but you could see how much hard work he put in to get where he did. The C.Ron on the not-so-talented, imagine if he was as naturally gifted as C.Ron. Would stomp all over Gerrard even more so.
However I actually would say the slightly over-the-hill Ballack was better for Chelsea than Lampard in the period he played (regardless of stats). Once he left, the midfield lost so much balance. Wouldn't call him the greatest by any means but he was definitely not appreciated until he left.
However I actually would say the slightly over-the-hill Ballack was better for Chelsea than Lampard in the period he played (regardless of stats). Once he left, the midfield lost so much balance. Wouldn't call him the greatest by any means but he was definitely not appreciated until he left.
I'd say the following were in the top bracket. Two were the most complete all round CMs you can find - passing, technique, tackling, energy, leadership, drive, physicality everything. And the third is the most complete playmaker in PL history. Scholes' intelligence and understanding of the game was phenomenal. He was a magnificent passing midfielder whether attacking or deep lying, and was also superb as a second striker when he played that role. Just a generally brilliant footballer.
Keane
Scholes
Vieira
Next lot would be there I guess. All terrific footballers but wouldn't make my top 3.
Lampard
Gerrard
Silva
Makelele etc
Keane
Scholes
Vieira
Next lot would be there I guess. All terrific footballers but wouldn't make my top 3.
Lampard
Gerrard
Silva
Makelele etc
As a midfield 3 from the history of the EPL, I don't think you could get a better 3 than Keane (deep), De Bruyne (right), Scholes (left).
Then Pogba is easily better than Kante as Pogba has more goals and assists than Kante in PL?
Most versatile and all-round has surely got to go to Gerrard? He started as a DM, thrived at box to box, had a brilliant season on the wing, had arguably his best season as an SS behind Torres before finishing his career in the league as deep playmaker.
He adapted to every role he was given and did everything.
He adapted to every role he was given and did everything.
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Scholes (best all round passer)
Keane (best box to box)
Beckham (best crosser)
Lampard (best stats/output)
Gerrard (best big game/ free role)
Viera (best all round box to box)
Fabregas (best assist)
Silva (best offensive)
De Bruyne (best killer passer)
Makelele (best defensive)
In no particular order
Keane (best box to box)
Beckham (best crosser)
Lampard (best stats/output)
Gerrard (best big game/ free role)
Viera (best all round box to box)
Fabregas (best assist)
Silva (best offensive)
De Bruyne (best killer passer)
Makelele (best defensive)
In no particular order
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Gerrard had a flashier style and generally was the best player in his team by a long way.
Scholesy on the other hand wasn't flashy and played in some great teams.
Things like this are why you got scenarios like Ginola winning the 99 player of the year.
But wasn't everyone awful for England though?
To an extent, I think the quotes by Xavi and Iniesta have greatly magnified attention on Scholes, leading to accusations of his reputation getting over inflated with the passage of time. To each his own I suppose, but pros like Pirlo, Xavi, Iniesta, Thierry Henry, Alan shearer have spoken highly of his abilities. Apparently the Inter president even offered a blank cheque to us for his services.
Ultimately, I think Scholes, Gerrard and Lampard were highly gifted in their own ways and it is a shame that England never used them properly. When you consider who England have now in midfield, with the likes of Maddison, Ox, Barkley, Dier, Rice and the like, the difference in quality is staggering.
Ultimately, I think Scholes, Gerrard and Lampard were highly gifted in their own ways and it is a shame that England never used them properly. When you consider who England have now in midfield, with the likes of Maddison, Ox, Barkley, Dier, Rice and the like, the difference in quality is staggering.
What's the point of dividing a simple position into 35 different roles, and then naming one player for each?Robson.. but past his best when PL started unfortunately. Definitely by far the best all-around midfielder, can do everything so well.
Best midfielders:
Deep Playmaker the Regista - Scholes
Pure 6 - Makelele
Playmaker 10 - David Silva
Attacking - Yaya Toure
B2B - Keane and Viera, then Gerrard
Distanced Passer and Shooter - KDB
Goalscoring - Lampard
Holding - Xabi Alonso
Versatile - Fabregas
Disruptor - Kante
Coolest - Edgar Davids
Specialty roles - Fellaini (seriously he's the only one that can do what he can, can't think of another and it's effective)
In fairmess to these three players they deserve a mention
Alonso
Carrick
Essien
As far as the best midfielder ever in the league? Keane for me.
Alonso
Carrick
Essien
As far as the best midfielder ever in the league? Keane for me.