The decline of center back talent

RedDevilCanuck said:

Vidic was better than Rio. Rio couldn't even run after 2008 and would hoof the ball upfield even more than Vidic.

Vidic was excellent on the ground and is incorrectly labelled as a blood and thunder defender. He was incredible in Europe and against the top 4 all the time minus ONE game against Torres and Eto'o in the CL final.

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There's nothing wrong/inferior about being a blood and thunder defender. Those who think so, also think that tackles are shitty defending (which has always been a bullshit comment that sounds smart)

Dancfc said:

I don't really think it's a case of defenders decline it's more the way the game is evolving.

The best teams defend from the front and play out from the back, the traditional heart on his sleeve defend and 'get rid of it' defender is long gone, if Tony Adams (who is in many areas regarded as the PL best ever defender) was around today he'd have to adapt his game a bit or be left behind, same if some of the modern day defenders were around 20 years ago.

The era of build from the back solid shape first everything else second is a long gone, even clubs like Stoke are sacking managers because they're too defensive. These days you have to access a centre back on how adept they are at playing high up and playing out from defense, they are the most crucial elements of a CB at the top level, the romantics don't like it but it's how it is. If you are offered a choice of two defenders, one's pacey, rated 8 on ball playing skills and 7 on "pure defending" while the others slower rated 5 on the ball but 9 on "pure defending", 99.9% of managers will choose the former because it's the required skillset in this day and age.

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The distinction between "pure defending" and "on the ball" is artificial. All defending is, is keeping the ball out of the net. If your on the ball skill prevents the opposition from scoring then it counts towards your ability as a defender.

I don't think that's the case. Don't really see such a quality difference between generations.

Leroy The Red said:

Minus Van dijk who are these modern day great centre backs that The plodding likes of Ferdinand and Terry would not compete with?
John Stones? Lindelof? Lovren? Davison Sanchez? Mustafi? Otamendi? Honestly it’s like some weird world I’m in.
Opposite of nostalgia but even more ridiculous.

Furthermore the notion that football is faster these days is another mythical one. There are SOME teams playing a faster quicker brand but that doesn’t mean it’s all teams. I mean ffs look how slow we play half the time. Arsenal the same, Chelsea for a lot of last season. I don’t get why people pick two outstanding teams like city and Liverpool and then make out everyone is doing what they’re doing.
Watch united games of 14/15 years ago those games were non stop end to end. Due to their being a lot less focus on possession football teams attacked far more at will.
I’ll further add what makes it funnier is that you see so many supporters whinging about how rubbish slow and boring their football is but you read the cafe and everyone is playing like Liverpool and City.

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Good post. Some of the views here are bizarre. The notion that football is so much better these days itself is miles off when you consider all of Europe's big clubs are going through periods of transition and are far from their best. City and Liverpool are peaking but everyone else isn't and are at various points of rebuilds.

TwoSheds said:

I don't buy this argument that because the CBs are more exposed they don't look as good. That should make them better players if they have to do a lot of 1 on 1 defending every game. Fact is the coaches rate other abilities higher than defending in their CBs these days it seems. Southgate and Ole sending Smalling packing, or Pep playing random midget midfielders in defence is a perfect illustration of this. Yet if you look at the results, the likes of Leicester's title winning defence had 2 commanding old school centre backs, City look poor at the back without Kompany, Liverpool improved immeasurably when they got Van Dijk, Atletico's dominant defence with Godin et al, Juventus with Chiellini - having defenders who can defend is still important.

The fad will end at some point and we'll start getting proper centre halves through again. After all, how many of these modern ball playing centre backs are actually better than the ones from the 90s and 2000s on the ball? Baresi, Maldini, Desailly, Thuram, Nesta, Stam, Campbell, King, Terry, Rio, Vidic etc etc. Even the ones who weren't anything special on the ball were composed in possession, which is pretty much how I see a lot of the "ball playing" ones now. Maguire, Lindelof, Stones, all get called ball playing but their passing ranges from decent to poor in any given game. Their only trait is being comfortable holding the ball and drawing opposition forwards in, but all the best centre backs always were good at that.

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Bolded is absolute nonsense.

TheReligion said:

Good post. Some of the views here are bizarre. The notion that football is so much better these days itself is miles off when you consider all of Europe's big clubs are going through periods of transition and are far from their best. City and Liverpool are peaking but everyone else isn't and are at various points of rebuilds.

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Certain aspects of the game have evolved, it's just natural. It's a phenomenon not exclusive to football. You see it in other sports as well. Wouldn't say football as a whole is much better, but tactics have made a step up for sure.

B20 said:

Going back to last time this got brought up:

Defending has changed massively in the last decade, because attacking has changed more than in that period than probably any other comparable period in the history of the game.

Compared to 10 years ago, there are more goals scored, more passes attempted and completed, yet fewer shots attempted and fewer crosses being made and fewer goals from set pieces, despite the increase in goalscoring. There are less duels challenging for the ball and more take ons attempted. This is true across all the top leagues.

What it means is that there is a lot less percentage football being played for defenders to clear. There is simply more high quality chances being created now than a decade ago and a lot less 50/50s challenges for defenders to compete for.
Overall, defenders have much fewer defensive interactions than 10 years ago, yet come up against what one would consider difficult to defend scenarios far more often. You could almost say that what was the difficult to defend scenario a decade ago is the standard defensive interaction today.

The ball is moved faster than ever before and players make more off the ball runs than before. It's a lot more about movement, positioning and anticipation than it used to be. Man marking for example is basically dead. Defenders trusting their ability to win duels and challenges by sticking close to their man aren't as valuable as they used to be.

At the top end, defenders also generally have to defend much bigger spaces than before due to the compression of play over the past decade.
I'd say defenders in most places have it harder than ever, which is also why there is a perceived lack of top defenders compared to 15 years ago.
Main exception perhaps is guardiolas teams whose tactics distribute the defending across the whole team to greater effect than anyone else around.

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I touched on a lot of this already and stick by it to be honest. Like I’ve stressed SOME teams are playing faster and moving off the ball more than others but it’s absolute nonsense to say it’s through the whole of football. Maybe cos you’re a Liverpool fan you think it’s the norm but I assure you it is not, we do not do any of the things you speak of and plenty of teams around in the premier league and the world don’t either.

Considering a decade ago we had THAT Barcelona team, THAT Real Madrid team and THAT Man United team, to suggest that teams nowadays are playing a better brand of attacking football, moving better and creating more and better chances is laughable and is reinventing history.
People just get carried away with this idea that football nowadays is superior and advanced and so much faster and better than yesteryear but it’s not. Or maybe it’s because their sides are more successful? More Exposure to football? I dunno could be but it’s definitely not that there’s some grand improvement.

There’s been plenty of outstanding footballing and high goal scoring sides since the start of the 21st century.
Arsenal, Barcelona, Chelsea, Real Madrid, United, Bayern have all produced exceptional attacking sides since the start of 2000. And by making these claims you’re doing a massive disservice to some outstanding individual players of the past like Ronaldinho, Brazilian Ronaldo, Ronaldo, Rooney, Henry, Bergkamp, Lampard, Eto’o, Drogba, Robben, Ribery, Raul, Kaka, Torres, Gerrard, the list is endless. The idea that these players aren’t as good at attacking and aren’t as smart at utilising space as players nowadays is again completely laughable. Might I add these players actually came up against good defenders.

Defenders having it harder nowadays? No chance, they’re just not as good, it’s that simple. And you can tell this by the fact a lot of defenders fail to do basic defending . Defenders playing at elite clubs like Stones, Otamendi, Lindelof , Luiz, Sanchez. Even if you go outside the Prem, Umtiti, Varane, Hummels, Boateng, I can pick holes in all of these defenders. Concentration, heading, marking, tackling. These are basic things and routinely these defenders falter at doing them.

And I put the big in bold because I think you’ve made a lot of that up. Set pieces for instance..
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....es-premier-league-trend-brief-aberration/amp/
Have a read of that, more goals are actually being scored from corners so not sure where you’ve got your statistics from.
What makes it quite funny is that Liverpool scored 14 goals from corners last season, I don’t even think Bolton or Stoke could ever match that total.

And here’s goals per season, again sort of throwing out facts that aren’t entirely true. Plenty of goals at the start of this decade.
https://www.myfootballfacts.com/pre...remier-league/premier_league_goal_statistics/

And another one, crosses of course will be less as we’ve moved more into the inside forward era but this table will tell you how effective they can still be.
https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/clubs/total_cross
Liverpool and city putting in far far more crosses than anyone else.

Also the very top teams have always valued ball playing skills in their centreback. If anything, we're missing the Beckenbauers, Sammer and Fachettis in the modern game.

Lawrenson&Hansen, Koeman&Nadal, Hierro&Sanchis/Helguera, costacurta&baresi.

It's rare to find a world class defence back in the day that didn't have at least one centreback with top ballplaying skills and everyone comfortable on the ball.

As others have noted, the game is far more attacking these days. This is being helped by more leniency by referees to attacking moves. Maybe once VAR grows up, the playing field will be more level (no pun intended).

So in regards to the original point, I don't believe centreback talent has declined. Instead, what we are seeing is fewer centrebacks able to stand out in this new paradigm. So maybe we can say that relatively speaking, centrebacks haven't progressed much.

Having said that I don't believe it will be long before we begin to see many more centrebacks coming through in the VVD mould ie tall and unbeatable in the air, as strong as an ox, rapid acceleration with speed over long sprints, great distribution, calm and rarely rash, and an uncanny ability to be in the right place at the right time.

Football is Darwinian in nature. It evolves and then so do the types of players that we see. Clubs, scouts and training methods ensure this.

TheBallBoy84 said:

I'm not too sure Sol Campbell, Terry or even Ferdinand would be that great in todays type of game. These days defenders need pace too, and many of those legends mentioned above had 0 pace. Back in their days, full backs did not attack. The centre backs had way more help defending.

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What are you even talking about with those centre halves haha.

Anyway, as others have said the team defends now in a way that didn’t happen before so there are fewer of those defensive Marshallese. Van Dijk is absolutely up there with most of those names mentioned for ability, as is Ramos.

There are quite a lot of false arguments here naming a handful of players from a 15 to 20 year period then saying all defenders don’t do this or that now.

Do remember that Maldini was a contemporary of Neil Ruddock and Julian Dicks.

Bebestation said:

How do people rate Hummels?

I'm just asking because the VVD explosion does remind me about the sudden explosion that Mats Hummels had under Klopp.

Was he just as good without Klopp & once he moved to other clubs or his national team?

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I think he had the same basic playing level, strengths and weaknesses throughout his career, regardless of Klopp. He could/can play at world class level for a prolonged time (and then he's breathtakingly good), but also had games/periods where he was prone to decisive mistakes. Maybe the Dortmund or Bayern fans on here can say more about good and inconsistent stretches.

One problem (I think it has gotten a bit better) was that his decisionmaking in direct duels and sometimes passing could be too risky. I can also remember concentration lapses or misjudgements leading to goals. Currently, back at Dortmund & under Favre, he's generally a rock in defense again. His recent game against Barca was pretty much perfect, and lauded as one of the best in his career:

B20 said:

It makes the rare few like van dijk look better because he is so good in 1on1 defending.

Having to defend more of the situations that, now and historically, lead to more goals than any other, something that all defensive organisations are set up to try and prevent, is obviously not going to make defenders look better.

I think Lovren is a good, if somewhat caricatured, example of a defender suffering from modern day defending. Put him in a deep defence with plenty to do and little distance to his nearest team mates, basically more traditional defending, and he can produce some terrific displays.

The more distance he has to his team mates and the more space he has to defend behind him, the worse his decisionmaking becomes as he ends up going for the all-or-nothing solution that will not expose him. And this is magnified by the fact when he does make a mistake, it tends to have severe consequences because of the large space he is defending on his own.

Van Dijk has it easier in these situations. Because he is that much stronger, he can expect to win every tussle and that much faster, he can recover in pretty much any sprint. He can stand off at first or go in hard early and will still come out top. He is somewhat unique in that he almost seems to benefit from having to defend a large space in isolation, which is almost never the case.

Sol Campbell stands out as someone who would still look as good in the modern era. Maybe ferdinand. Carvalho too. And peak Stam.

Vidic would not. Nor would Terry, Hyypia, Adams or Carragher.

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I don't agree at all. Vidic was world class in any era, Terry too, more than comfortable enough on the ball, both played decent long balls on either foot, goal threat in the opposition box, dominant in the air in their own. If Maguire can be considered a top centre half nowadays there's no way in hell those 2 wouldn't have been.

I think quality all over the park has waned. Personally think it's because the culture has changed massively.

I like a CB that attacks the ball instead of trying to cover a man or two. Vidic used to go to meet the ball and more often than not cleared the lines, and scored when at other end.
I think that Milenkovic is in the same mould as Vidic and at only 22 years old he is worth the 45 million buy out clause.

It's sort of stunning how much the game, and the role of central defenders, has moved on from even the beginning of this decade. You can't tell me Joleon Lescott would form part of a Premier League-winning defensive partnership in this day and age, and yet he managed it twice in the first half of the decade.

Bestietom said:

I like a CB that attacks the ball instead of trying to cover a man or two. Vidic used to go to meet the ball and more often than not cleared the lines, and scored when at other end.
I think that Milenkovic is in the same mould as Vidic and at only 22 years old he is worth the 45 million buy out clause.

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Im not going to be big the lad up alot - but he does impress me how bloody lanky he is at 6 ft 5, gets his feet in, can make turns under pressure, make decent passes and does have the ability to catch up with pace.

TheReligion said:

VVD isn't fit to lace the boots of the aforementioned legend btw

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...sometimes I'm baffled by these kinds of comments.

You put these legends in the modern game, they will struggle as well.

Modern games are waaayy more faster and fitter than it was just 10 - 15 years ago.

There is no what if they also trained and eat like the modern players, that was their peak, at their era, that was their potential. The limit of their abilities to the limited science they had back in the day.

Modern players are the results of the evolution, hence they are way better, sprints more, work harder and play at higher intensity.

Defending in this modern age must be a hell of a job. Because attackers are nurtured to perfection.

Regarding the topic, yes it is harder to have the Baresi of this era, but VVD is the best in terms of both physical peakness and defending arts in modern football.

I hate Liverpool, but he is not overrated at all.

Aren't there websites that do stat comparisons for this kind of thing?

From 06/07 to the 09/10 Premier League seasons United only conceded a total of 101 goals with Ferdinand & Vidic at the heart of their defense, never conceding more than 28 in any one league season. That's a ridiculous level of consistency.

I don't think Van Dijk can be put in their league yet imo. If we win the league this season and he performs at a high level for a couple more seasons then it's a discussion worth having.

The list of quality defenders does seem to have gotten smaller recently.

Invictus said:

Centerbacks these days are, on the whole, no better or worse than those from previous eras on an intrinsic level, IMO. Perhaps the perception of what constitutes a good (or very good) player at a certain position should evolve with the flow of the game to accommodate newer eras because they're simply being trained on the supply chain to meet the contemporary demands of the sport (and outdated models of assessment don't always account for those factors).

These days your run-of-the-mill top flight centerback is more intelligent and superior at processing the game (on the pitch and in the training field), a better team-player and bigger contributor in different phases, better at pressuring and covering and intercepting with the unit instead of lunging into heroic tackles (which are more heavily penalized), etc. because of the constant evolution of collective-oriented tactics in a fast and attack-friendly environment. But there's a ultimate trade-off in that the coaching and detail-oriented organisation/preparation which make the average centerback more efficient and a better decision-maker, and perform at a higher level than any other point in the history of the football also play a part in limiting the top, top players at the position because it's harder than ever to become a pure defensive “icon” or orchestrator and put your individual mark on the game within the framework (aside from exceptions like Godín or Van Dijk) — as football moves forward with a very heavy emphasis on the team-above-individuals model.

You can see similar symptoms in other positions, too: there are a lot of high scorers in the top leagues and your average attacker performs at a better statistical level than ever because of advancements in coaching and preparation (not to mention enablement by organisations and matchday officials), but a lot of them tend to be quite milquetoast and direct and are encouraged to defend from the front to constantly create the shortest/simplest possible routes to goal — leaving less room for the display of virtuoso abilities in open play with acres of space around them (in fact individualistic players that could have thrived in bygone eras are more likely to fall by the wayside because they fail to meet the contemporary demands of the sport).

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I normally agree with 99% of the posts you make but centre backs these days are more intelligent at reading the game? I must be watching a different sport because to me it looks like centre backs are more stupid than ever. I don't mean to pick on Arsenal but the game this season that stands out to me that sort of epitomises modern day defending is their 2-2 draw with Watford. Centre backs are more concerned with how they look on the ball, how they press and their pass completion than doing defending and it runs through the top clubs to the bottom clubs. And for me if you look at the top clubs they all have centre backs guilty of these things, even where you state that they pressure and cover as opposed to 'lunging into heroic tackles' you've got players like Otamendi, Baily, Sokratis, Rojo, Zouma, Sanchez making absolutely daft 'lunge tackles' half way up the field on a regular basis, doing exactly what you say they don't do as much and these are players at the very top clubs in England.

The teams with the best defensive record in the PL this season are Leicester and Sheffield United, and if you watch their centre backs, they just like defending. There's no fancy business or trying to look like a playmaker on the ball, Soyuncu and Evans for instance complement each other so well. Soyuncu attacks the ball, he sticks close to his attackers (apparently this is outdated) and then you have Evans who's very good at reading danger and positioning himself. An interesting stat as well that shows you 'old school' defending isn't at all redundant in the modern game https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/total_clearance.



So of the seven players with most clearances this season, three play for Leicester and Sheffield United (the teams with the best defence) and the other is the best centre back in the world Virgil Van Dijk. These players also feature on the highest passes table, which tells you they know when to play out from the back and when to just get rid of the ball, something that is completely lost on so many modern day centre backs which is why I dont believe they are predominantly more intelligent than past defenders.

meamth said:

There is no what if they also trained and eat like the modern players, that was their peak, at their era, that was their potential. The limit of their abilities to the limited science they had back in the day.

Modern players are the results of the evolution, hence they are way better, sprints more, work harder and play at higher intensity.

Defending in this modern age must be a hell of a job. Because attackers are nurtured to perfection.

Regarding the topic, yes it is harder to have the Baresi of this era, but VVD is the best in terms of both physical peakness and defending arts in modern football.

I hate Liverpool, but he is not overrated at all.

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Mate, you may wanna watch some matches not involving Liverpool and Man city and you willl quickly see that attackers are not nurtured to perfection. I assume you're a United fan, at any point in the last six years where have you seen United attackers nurtured to perfection?

meamth said:

...sometimes I'm baffled by these kinds of comments.

You put these legends in the modern game, they will struggle as well.

Modern games are waaayy more faster and fitter than it was just 10 - 15 years ago.

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It really isn't though. Go look at premier league highlights of 10-15 years ago. The PL was always lightning fast and physical. The gap between a decade ago is much smaller than the hard smoking hard drinking 60s and 70s and is often overstated here.

meamth said:

...sometimes I'm baffled by these kinds of comments.

You put these legends in the modern game, they will struggle as well.

Modern games are waaayy more faster and fitter than it was just 10 - 15 years ago.

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The way teams press give such a bigger challenge to defenders and keepers these days aswell.

Few weeks back I rewatched a Chelsea/United game from 2002 and the ball got passed back to Cudicini who with the freedom of third of the pitch took the ball forward and booted it long in his own time, not a snowballs chance in hell will any team/manager give a keeper that time these days.

TheReligion said:

VVD isn't fit to lace the boots of the aforementioned legend btw

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This. 100%

mu4c_20le said:

It really isn't though. Go look at premier league highlights of 10-15 years ago. The PL was always lightning fast and physical. The gap between a decade ago is much smaller than the hard smoking hard drinking 60s and 70s and is often overstated here.

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Mate we had Beckham as our Winger back then. Now you have the attackers pressing you, the wing backs crossing balls to you like their Beckham, absolutely no one centrally to defend against because he is too far away to reach playing as a false 9 all the whilst having inverted attacking winger/forwards making runs in behind you from passes from all sorts of angles.

The game evolved with Ronaldo's inverted forward play and the stuff Pep did with Messi, Iniesta & Xavi etc.

Now literally every team copy their tactics to even some degree & even if the individual abilities of players has waned overall- the overall ability of teams has only gotten better & to say that this hasn't effected defenders has to be wrong.

Bebestation said:

Mate we had Beckham as our Winger back then. Now you have the attackers pressing you, the wing backs crossing balls to you like their Beckham, absolutely no one centrally to defend against because he is too far away to reach playing as a false 9 all the whilst having inverted attacking winger/forwards making runs in behind you from passes from all sorts of angles.

The game evolved with Ronaldo's inverted forward play and the stuff Pep did with Messi, Iniesta & Xavi etc.

Now literally every team copy their tactics to even some degree & even if the individual abilities of players has waned overall- the overall ability of teams has only gotten better & to say that this hasn't effected defenders has to be wrong.

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The game has evolved a little bit, but that has little to do with pace and fitness, and the suggestion that the top defenders from merely a decade ago would struggle today is a bit ludicrous. In fact, I would argue that back in the Beckham days, CBs were left more exposed by the tactics like 442, where nowadays they usually have an extra defender or a holding midfielder protecting them. Pace was arguably more important ten years ago than it is today.

robinamicrowave said:

It's sort of stunning how much the game, and the role of central defenders, has moved on from even the beginning of this decade. You can't tell me Joleon Lescott would form part of a Premier League-winning defensive partnership in this day and age, and yet he managed it twice in the first half of the decade.

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He fell off dramatically but was at one point an okay defender. I’d say comparable to Stones/Matip in level at that time when he was at Everton/City. Wasn’t he keeping Jerome Boateng out the team those days? Who was not too long ago classed as one of the best in this era. The gap in quality 10 years ago isn’t as big as people make out. You only have to look at someone like Zlatan who kept up and played better in this era than the previous.

TheBallBoy84 said:

I'm not too sure Sol Campbell, Terry or even Ferdinand would be that great in todays type of game. These days defenders need pace too, and many of those legends mentioned above had 0 pace. Back in their days, full backs did not attack. The centre backs had way more help defending.

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Where to start here.....bloody hell.
If Harry Maguire who is slow as it gets is 80mil defender these days( and it is not dig at Harry) then slow(ish) Sol Campbell or Terry would be 150mil. Did you ever see that attacker run past them? I didn't because their positioning was amazing.
And Rio was slow? Wtf man? He had everything and especially pace. There is no that kind of complete defender in today's football. Fergie even said that Rio's biggest problem in his last seasons is that he lost pace and didn't adapt to it because in his prime he could have catch any attacker. And his skill on the ball was . Best defender ever for me.

And about full backs you again said total nonsense. These days full backs are either defensive or attacking players. 10 years ago full backs were complete on both ends of the pitch. Carlos, Cafu, Zanetti, Maldini, Irwin, Evra, Cole, etc...etc....

And yes, OP is right here. If i should name top 20 central defenders since lets say 1990 or even 2000, only Ramos would be in that list from current players

Edit; seriously, did you even watch those players? Were you even born when Terry and Rio were destroying best PL attackers?

If someone told me a peak Viktor Onopko wouldn't be able to cope with the speed and fitness requirements of current football, i'd probably need to be physically restrained.

mwake said:

VVD definitely has the lot, people sometimes wear rose colored glasses about past defenders. Yes of couser there are some great defenders who played in sides that won lots of titles. But if you put aside titles won VVD is as good as some of the best defenders, strong, fast, intelligent, can pass short and long and wins headers for fun, is a born leader, all this and he plays in a team that plays a extremely high line, what more could you ask for?

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Hm, 10 years of that maybe? Nobody is saying that VVD is bad and he is todays best centre back but to place him in same sentence with Terry, Sol, Rio, Vidic, Carvalho or Adams is football blasphemy.

Demyanenko_square_jaw said:

If someone told me a peak Viktor Onopko wouldn't be able to cope with the speed and fitness requirements of current football, i'd probably need to be physically restrained.

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Pietro Vierchowood would still be the most physically gifted CB in the world today

Renegade said:

I genuinely believe if Ramos wasn’t a goalscorer and playing for Madrid he wouldn’t be no where near rated as a defender.

He looks headless when he has to defend.

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Not this again bro. He is a great defender and an inspirational leader. Granted he has moments of madness just like any other but he used to be pure class over the years.

@Leroy The Red Great post

Anyone suggesting that VVD wouldn’t be among the best centre backs in any era is just plain daft.

@Andycoleno9 and @Leroy The Red know where it's at

redman5 said:

Maybe it's because there's a better class of attackers around today. Faster, smarter, & more clinical.

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. This is too much for me. Just too much. I am sure that you as older poster don't think that

I may be completely wrong but I predict in the next decade elite CBs will be in the mold of players like Fabhino/Rodri(less so) rather than VVD/Maguire. The reason being is the target man is steadily declining in importance and even if they feature in a side they are rarely the focal point of attacks like years gone by. In the coming years, I think most if not all top teams who play in elite sides will need CBs who can cover ground to snuff out counter-attacks AND pass/move out of the high press into to break the lines. Players like Fabihno also give managers a lot of tactical flexibility (DM, RB, or CB based on circumstance). I think physically dominant CBs (strength and ariel ability) will become more of a value-add rather than the prototype (they will still need to be able to pass very well). Granted Fabinho nor Rodri are CBs are natural DMs but I think we will start more CBs in their mold.

Some may counter with Lindelof as an example of this mold of CB backfiring. However, I would argue Lindeloff lacks the quickness of a player like Fabinho. A player I think could be a great CB is Declan Rice. I wouldn't want him in my midfield but I think he could be an elite CB.

BBRBB said:

I disagree with this sentiment. Someone like Puyol for example was a bit of joke for large parts of his career, a few good years and being part of dominating sides embellished his legacy.

People nowadays just don't like to appreciate good defending, one mistake or decisive duel lost lost and you're thrown under the the bus. On the other hand any old footage shows past defenders getting ridiculed by attackers of their time yet they're still considered GOATs.

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Agreed. The modern mentality of instant kneejerking and twitter clipped GIFS and videos has besmirched the status of CBs in the current game. Time naturally increases the status of a player, but you’d think some of these old CBs were flawless the way people go on.

Puyol is a great example as you mention; and then in that very same page two posts flippantly belittle Sergio Ramos - undeniably the superior of the two Spaniards...

How good did a defence of Fuchs, Morgan, Huth and Simpson look?!? With Kante I’m front of it. Solid, compact style. We looked steady, inviting people to cross into the box.

Different players look better in in different tactics. You’d never ask some players to press high up. They’d be so slower the space in behind for quick forwards would be frightening.

meamth said:

...sometimes I'm baffled by these kinds of comments.

You put these legends in the modern game, they will struggle as well.

Modern games are waaayy more faster and fitter than it was just 10 - 15 years ago.

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You don't think those legends would adapt to the modern game? I don't see the logic in saying VVD would be brilliant in any age but Vidić or Rio for example would struggle in modern game which isnt so much faster, ous a myth which someone covered here already.