Neville change of stance towards Glazers

momo83

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So why would Neville lie about the timeline of the anti Glazer movement and why would he try to portray the movement as a group who are simply annoyed that the club is not winning, when history has proven that is not the case.

1) Maybe he’s confused.
2) Maybe he wasn’t aware of all those banners at OT and the protests in 2009/2010
3) maybe, just maybe, he is intentionally falsifying the truth and slandering the movement for his own objective.. because he knows he can say grass is pink and a significant number of people will believe him.
 
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Rood

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Since Feb 2019 his hotel is actively in business with Man Utd
What is this about?

Obviously the hotel is 1min walk from OT so it's pretty difficult for Hotel Football not to have dealings with the club, but interested to know what exactly happened in Feb?
 

Rood

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So why would Neville lie about the timeline of the anti Glazer movement and why would he try to portray the movement as a group who are simply annoyed that the club is not winning, when history has proven that is not the case.

1) Maybe he’s confused.
2) Maybe he wasn’t aware of all those banners at OT and the protests in 2009/2010
3) maybe, just maybe, he is intentionally falsifying the truth and slandering the movement for his own objective.. because he knows he can say grass is pink and a significant number of people will believe him.
He did get his dates wrong TBF, Green+Gold clearly happened at a successful period. He does have a point on the more recent online #GlazerOut stuff which often seems connected to transfers than anything else
 

padzilla

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The Green and Gold protest happened after we sold Ronaldo in 2009 and large droves of the fanbase felt the club had allowed standards to drop to an unacceptable level - little did we know how bad things would continue to get...
 

momo83

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He did get his dates wrong TBF, Green+Gold clearly happened at a successful period. He does have a point on the more recent online #GlazerOut stuff which often seems connected to transfers than anything else
He accidentally got the dates wrong? It was a planned interview and sit down. I really doubt it. Like I said. He knows he can sell piss as champagne and enough people will buy it even after having a taste.

This doesn’t really sound like he’s referring to the online twitter protests “ Just stand there and campaign and whinge? Stand on the front of Old Trafford in front of Best, Law and Charlton with my placard up saying ‘Glazers out?

Or maybe by placard what he really meant was tweet. And by Best, Law, and Charlton what he really meant was on my iPad, iPhone, or Android
 

macheda14

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Glazers have never interfered with the first team. The Leeds owners were complete different beast.
Ill admit that and even said it during the Saudi takeover over hype that another owner might see the club as a plaything. But to me people who protest the glazers stealing £1b are not whiners
You missed the point of my post, ‘the facts I brought in here’. The link I posted showed him being more pro than anti Glazer all the way back in 2014. My point being, he’s not really changed his tune, which is the whole point of your thread.
 

Rood

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He accidentally got the dates wrong? It was a planned interview and sit down. I really doubt it. Like I said. He knows he can sell piss as champagne and enough people will buy it even after having a taste.

This doesn’t really sound like he’s referring to the online twitter protests “ Just stand there and campaign and whinge? Stand on the front of Old Trafford in front of Best, Law and Charlton with my placard up saying ‘Glazers out?

Or maybe by placard what he really meant was tweet. And by Best, Law, and Charlton what he really meant was on my iPad, iPhone, or Android
He was talking in general terms - he references a multiyear period but he is wrong to forget the Green &Gold protest as that was a major event.

But I'm still unsure about what exactly you are insinuating?! You think Neville is some kind of club mouthpiece? Sorry but that's just ridiculous
 

momo83

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He was talking in general terms - he references a multiyear period but he is wrong to forget the Green &Gold protest as that was a major event.

But I'm still unsure about what exactly you are insinuating?! You think Neville is some kind of club mouthpiece? Sorry but that's just ridiculous
Not really insinuating anything. I’ve actually taken what he’s said about timeline proven that he’s lied about it, added that to him falsely insinuating that the GlazerOut movement are nothing more then glory hunters, added that to his business interest and influence amongst fans to say that he is trying to make people see the GlazersOut in a negative light and the Glazers in a more positive light.

Can’t be more clear then that. You don’t have to agree with my point. But it’s difficult to believe that you don’t understand my point.
 

Gasolin

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I think that the club lost his soul the moment it was owned by an owner whose not a Man United fan. We had 1 opportunity to buy the club back when Edwards was selling his shares but unfortunately the supporters of the time failed to do so. Considering that the Glazers would whore and sell the club to anyone with money then all we can do is hope is (in order of precedence)

- The Glazers sell their shares to the public (which is highly unlikely)
- They sell the club to a United fan (Ratcliffe)
- They sell to owners that understand football (like the Liverpool owners)
- They sell to owners who will invest in the team rather then simply take money out of it.


Having mingled into the political circles myself I learnt to stir away from any false morality about us (Westerners) being better then Them (Saudi etc). Most politicians aren't that different to business men. They would sell their souls for money (investment to the country or otherwise)

I repeat regimes do not stay in power without help and we all know who back Saudi Arabia. Actually I believe that these governments are worse then the Saudi royalty. The latter commit crimes to stay in power and alive (think of how Gheddafi and Saddam ended). The former consent to such crime because its profitable.

I think the most pragmatic argument one can make is that its never a good idea being owned by a regime since regime do fall. Think of Gheddafi, Saddam, Pol Pot etc.
I understand your points. I also can see what you mean, maybe yeah, my mind should be tired and root for anyone who can support the club financially. It's painful to see we have a debt rise of 140M GBP when we are supposed to be doing better, but it's a process. We also know that due to the debt, we will not buy Halaand or Sancho, we just can't afford it in my mind. But still, we need to find a way to get out of this, through the football. It's the only way.
 

Lentwood

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I don't believe that Neville has changed his stance on the Glazers

It's perfectly possible to believe that the Glazers have leveraged the club with debt (because they have) and that they have made some extremely poor decisions (because they have) whilst also believing that 'lack of funds' and 'cost-cutting' are not the reasons for our struggles over the last couple of years
 

Mr Smith

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Don't disagree with anything he has said there. I don't like the Glazer's and question their motives, but if the club was sold to some of the potential buyers touted I would honestly feel a bit dirty continuing to support the club and clamouring for investment. For me, there's nothing to see here.
 

Rood

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Not really insinuating anything. I’ve actually taken what he’s said about timeline proven that he’s lied about it, added that to him falsely insinuating that the GlazerOut movement are nothing more then glory hunters, added that to his business interest and influence amongst fans to say that he is trying to make people see the GlazersOut in a negative light and the Glazers in a more positive light.

Can’t be more clear then that. You don’t have to agree with my point. But it’s difficult to believe that you don’t understand my point.
I understand it but I totally disagree with it since its mostly based on things Neville hasnt actually said at all
 

Majima

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I don't believe that Neville has changed his stance on the Glazers

It's perfectly possible to believe that the Glazers have leveraged the club with debt (because they have) and that they have made some extremely poor decisions (because they have) whilst also believing that 'lack of funds' and 'cost-cutting' are not the reasons for our struggles over the last couple of years
Their consistently poor leadership from top down are the reasons for our continued struggles.

Where is the dof that Woodward promised he would install when Mourinho left? Why are we constantly linked with ex players who do not possess the required expertise the role requires?

Do you believe cronyism is the way to future success?

Why has the structure of the club not been updated to sustain each manager appointment? Managers typically last a few years now. For all the good Solskjaer has done behind the scenes so far, many fans are scared of losing this progress if he is replaced.

Why do they base their managerial changes entirely on financials, allowing full seasons to be written off in the process? I.e. waiting until there is 0% chance of meeting top 4 goal before sacking? Moyes, LVG & Mourinho all overstayed their welcome, when if we were proactive, we could have rescued some of the seasons and actually had something to play for.

Do you not think it was their consistent lack of investment in the club for years after Ronaldo's sale that lead us on this path to begin with?

One way or the other, the Glazers are soley responsible (revenues not included) for our current standing in world football.
 
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momo83

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I understand it but I totally disagree with it since its mostly based on things Neville hasnt actually said at all
He said the protests are driven by lack of success and to try and prove his point he lied and said the protests went quiet between 2006 - 2012.

So I don’t understand how any honest debater would think my extrapolation of his objective and the reason for what he said are based on things he hasn’t said. When clearly he has said those things.

So if you believe in your point of view strongly enough then focus on his words and use your own analysis to bring an alternative opinion instead of just focusing on mine.
 

Chesterlestreet

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It's perfectly possible to believe that the Glazers have leveraged the club with debt (because they have) and that they have made some extremely poor decisions (because they have) whilst also believing that 'lack of funds' and 'cost-cutting' are not the reasons for our struggles over the last couple of years
Bingo.

The idea that we, based on revenue, could have freely spent to a tune which would have given us a considerable edge (which we have lacked under the current ownership) if the takeover had never happened, is ultimately unfounded.

It is a matter of readily available record(s) that United have indeed spent the kind of money which statistically brings success. The fact that it has not brought success (to anywhere near the degree expected) is damning for the owners - obviously - but that's an entirely different kettle of fish: it means that they have wasted a shitload of money with very little to show for it - not that they have refused to spend.

And yes, I'm talking about transfers and wages. They have neglected certain aspects, like upgrading Old Trafford - the most obvious example. But would you prioritize stadium upgrades over being - highly - competitive with regard to wages? And would the people who claim they're not spending enough be placated if United sacrificed top-of-the-line salaries for the sake of modernizing Old Trafford? I very much doubt that.

The owners sanctioned Alexis Sanchez' insane wages. It was stupid. It was something no competent DOF would have ever gone along with. But it happened. And what was it? Penny pinching? How does spending outrageous amounts on ill-advised deals (Rooney's boosted contract under Moyes and Schweinsteiger's contract being further examples - I won't even mention Mourinho's contract, and extension) jibe with the idea that they're desperate to save a penny?
 

Rood

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He said the protests are driven by lack of success and to try and prove his point he lied and said the protests went quiet between 2006 - 2012.

So I don’t understand how any honest debater would think my extrapolation of his objective and the reason for what he said are based on things he hasn’t said. When clearly he has said those things.

So if you believe in your point of view strongly enough then focus on his words and use your own analysis to bring an alternative opinion instead of just focusing on mine.
No he hasnt said that - he's making a general point about how there have been periods when we were doing well and there was not much of the 'GlazerOut' stuff out there, but recently it has come back because we have been a bit shit. He says the Glazers arent the best owners out there but they wont be forced out due to protests and that there is no clear better alternative out there anyway, so he's not sure what protests will achieve.

This is not a change of stance in any way, he's expressed similar ideas in the past
 

SaintMuppet

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The curiosity of man meant that you couldn’t resist not reading the rest. The kop out is saying that you didn’t read the rest.
Projecting your own behavior patterns into others is a bit dumb tbh. I would advise against doing in too often because eventually it will feck you up
 

momo83

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Projecting your own behavior patterns into others is a bit dumb tbh. I would advise against doing in too often because eventually it will feck you up
Wanting to pass on the quotish advice that we hear from others is natural, but at least wait for when it’s suitable
 

The Irish Connection

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Yes you are right there was a few signs of discontent at the Scouse game, I am not sure how many participated - more aimed at Woodward than the Glazers though (although I guess it's all part of the same parcel).
But my general point was that this season the vast majority of GlazerOut stuff has been online - that's not to say that matchgoers are happy with them, absolutely not but there is a difference.

However Liverpool was a sell out and there has been no drop in attendance this season for league games
You’re lying or incorrect there sorry. I was at the game and I clearly remember the attendance being announced at around 73,000, which I was surprised at.
A friend of mine was at Arsenal also and the attendance was down then too.
 

The Irish Connection

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The Liverpool game was full.

The march was not well documented or attended.

The planes are embarrassing.
You’re incorrect on the first two.

And personally, I don’t find the plane embarrassing. Anything to gain publicity and increase pressure on the owners/Woodward the better.
 

Rood

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You’re lying or incorrect there sorry. I was at the game and I clearly remember the attendance being announced at around 73,000, which I was surprised at.
A friend of mine was at Arsenal also and the attendance was down then too.
I could also accuse you of lying or being wrong, but now I realise that you are just ignorant of the facts - OT capacity at the moment is around 73k due to renovation works

Liverpool was the highest attendance of the season at 73,737 but all home league matches have been a sell out at 73,xxx

Did you actually think that tickets had gone unsold for United vs Liverpool?! the BIGGEST match in English football :houllier:
 

The Irish Connection

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I could also accuse you of lying or being wrong, but now I realise that you are just ignorant of the facts - OT capacity at the moment is around 73k due to renovation works

Liverpool was the highest attendance of the season at 73,737 but all home league matches have been a sell out at 73,xxx

Did you actually think that tickets had gone unsold for United vs Liverpool?! the BIGGEST match in English football :houllier:
My apologies. I was ignorant of that about old Trafford, sorry. Due to the protests outside, the plane and scarves I thought that was the reason behind the lower attendance figures.
 

Rood

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My apologies. I was ignorant of that about old Trafford, sorry. Due to the protests outside, the plane and scarves I thought that was the reason behind the lower attendance figures.
Fair enough - ticket demand is still high, every match a sell out.
Protests at the moment are nothing compared to protests back in 2005 or 2009 and OT was full then as well, but then we were winning back then!
 

The Irish Connection

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Fair enough - ticket demand is still high, every match a sell out.
Protests at the moment are nothing compared to protests back in 2005 or 2009 and OT was full then as well, but then we were winning back then!
Yes. It probably won’t achieve much but it’s better than not trying to do anything. The debt situation and the handling of or lack of transfers since they’ve been here is wrong.
 

Rood

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Yes. It probably won’t achieve much but it’s better than not trying to do anything. The debt situation and the handling of or lack of transfers since they’ve been here is wrong.
I don't have any issue with people protesting, as long as it's for the right reasons

There has been huge amounts invested in the squad though - I don't have any complaints about money spent on transfers, but we have clearly squandered a lot of it so yes the board deserve criticism

I reckon Neville would agree with most of that as well