What a Fluid Attacking Three Actually Looks Like

NewGlory

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Great example of El Classico game, with some decent commentary. Notice how Messi, Eto'o and Henry alter positions to constantly strech RM's defense, creating spaces and then running or crossing into those spaces.


There is truly world of difference between what these guys are doing and the very predictable, repeatable, and futile attempts of Martial - Rashford - James trio. Obviously Messi, Eto'o and Henry were the best of the best, but you can notice it is not just about our trio lacking fundamental skills, we have enough basic skills for the kinds of teams we usually play, it's the situational awareness and tactical thinking that is very poor.

Our attacking guys need some intense coaching to develop their footballing intelligence, it's not just the mechanics of good passing and sharp shooting that is lacking. And they need it now.
 

Fosu-Mens

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Great example of El Classico game, with some decent commentary. Notice how Messi, Eto'o and Henry alter positions to constantly strech RM's defense, creating spaces and then running or crossing into those spaces.


There is truly world of difference between what these guys are doing and the very predictable, repeatable, and futile attempts of Martial - Rashford - James trio. Obviously Messi, Eto'o and Henry were the best of the best, but you can notice it is not just about our trio lacking fundamental skills, we have enough basic skills for the kinds of teams we usually play, it's the situational awareness and tactical thinking that is very poor.

Our attacking guys need some intense coaching to develop their footballing intelligence, it's not just the mechanics of good passing and sharp shooting that is lacking. And they need it now.
Not that I disagree with this at all, but one should also take into consideration that Messi, Henry and Eto'o could rely on the rest of the team being able to contain possession without them always being a good passing option --> more freedom and easier to focus on their own movement without needing to be an option all the time.
 

flappyjay

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Worst example to use. Two world class strikers in their prime plus a goat level player supported by one of the greatest club midfields ever.
 
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Inigo Montoya

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Worst example to use. Two world class strikers in their prime plus a goal level player supported by one of the greatest club midfields ever.
This! Let’s use them as a stick to beat Utd with.

Ducking state of this place
 

meamth

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Not fair isn't it?

Eto'o already world class.
Henry already world class.
Messi is a goat level player.

We have 3 boys trying to be consistent.
 

w1thout

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Just finished watching the whole video.
The thing that stuck out for me the most was Xavi's ridiculous balk retention under pressure. We don't have a single player in our squad remotely capable of this.

As for the attack, you have to keep in mind that this is prime Pep's Barcelona, with Messi who is the GOAT, Henry, that some will argue he is the best attacker ever in the EPL, and Eto'o.
We don't have a single player who resembles that kind of quality. Nevertheless, they weren't interchanging as much as you would suggest. After 10mins Messi and Eto'o switched positions, and from thereon it was mainly Messi droping deep with Eto'o occasionally poping in the middle, and Henry doing what is expected of every wide forward.

However, I do agree that our attacking patterns are lacking, and that we need some serious work to be done regarding that matter.
 
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arthurka

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Not fair isn't it?

Eto'o already world class.
Henry already world class.
Messi is a goat level player.

We have 3 boys trying to be consistent.
Hahaha Messi, Etoo and Henry v Rashy, Martial and James.. That's like putting Lada Sport v Rolls Royce as a comparison. Best striker in Spain, best striker in the PL and the GOAT v Two kids and a moody French guy.
 

Skills

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City are a better example of this, as Barcelona's individual brilliance will overshadow the system the players played in.
 

NewGlory

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You're basically talking about positional football (Juego de Posicion)?! By now there are tons of articles and video analysis out there about how various teams try to implement this concept on the pitch.
(1) https://spielverlagerung.com/2014/11/26/juego-de-posicion-a-short-explanation/
(2) https://spielverlagerung.com/2014/12/25/juego-de-posicion-under-pep-guardiola/
I am talking about understanding of the space during the game. Barca front three are constantly trying to destroy RM's defensive shape, by Messi dropping deep and drawing CBs and Eto'o or Henry streching other defenders in the other direction. And another second Messi popping right in front of the goal. Our attackers rarely do any of that, rather relying on brute force crosses and running into the box with their heads forward, like an enraged bull :)

What I am saying is: "fluid attack" means understanding and manipulating the space, stretching opponent's defense at your will, and not: "our attackers can play on either flank or in the middle and they don't have assigned position". The latter being how some seem to incorrectly interpret what "fluid attack" is

I am obviously not comparing our forwards to Barca ones, but if you want to demonstrate how something is done - you naturally analyze the best people doing it, that is all.
 
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do.ob

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I am talking about understanding of the space during the game. Barca front three are constantly trying to destroy RM's defensive shape, by Messi dropping deep and drawing CBs and Eto'o or Henry streching other defenders in the other direction. And another second Messi popping right in front of the goal. Our attackers rarely do any of that, rather relying on brute force crosses and running into the box with their heads forward, like an enraged bull :)

What I am saying is: "fluid attack" means understanding and manipulating the space, stretching opponent's defense at your will, and not: "our attackers can play on either flank or in the middle and they don't have assigned position". The latter being how some seem to incorrectly interpret what "fluid attack" is

I am obviously not comparing our forwards to Barca ones, but if you want to demonstrate how something is done - you naturally analyze the best people doing it, that is all.
So you are talking about positional football?
 

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Great example of El Classico game, with some decent commentary. Notice how Messi, Eto'o and Henry alter positions to constantly strech RM's defense, creating spaces and then running or crossing into those spaces.


There is truly world of difference between what these guys are doing and the very predictable, repeatable, and futile attempts of Martial - Rashford - James trio. Obviously Messi, Eto'o and Henry were the best of the best, but you can notice it is not just about our trio lacking fundamental skills, we have enough basic skills for the kinds of teams we usually play, it's the situational awareness and tactical thinking that is very poor.

Our attacking guys need some intense coaching to develop their footballing intelligence, it's not just the mechanics of good passing and sharp shooting that is lacking. And they need it now.
The Real Madrid line up at the beginning of this video genuinely made me google if Mertesaker had played for Madrid..
 

troylocker

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Hahaha Messi, Etoo and Henry v Rashy, Martial and James.. That's like putting Lada Sport v Rolls Royce as a comparison. Best striker in Spain, best striker in the PL and the GOAT v Two kids and a moody French guy.
That whole team was basically a cheatcode: Valdes - Abidal, Pique, Puyol, Alves - Iniesta, Y. Toure, Xavi - Henry, Eto'o, Messi
Ridiculous! Has there ever been fielded a better 11?

I think we are missing a few parts of this puzzle...
 

Foxbatt

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Yeah and we have Lingard, Fred and McTominay behind them. Even Messi, Henry and Eto would struggle with our midfield behind them.
First of all they can move into all the positions they want and they still wouldn't have the ball because our midfield can't pass the ball into the space they want.
 

amolbhatia50k

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Just finished watching the whole video.
The thing that stuck out for me the most was Xavi's ridiculous balk retention under pressure. We don't have a single player in our squad remotely capable of this.

As for the attack, you have to keep in mind that this is prime Pep's Barcelona, with Messi who is the GOAT, Henry, that some will argue he is the best attacker ever in the EPL, and Eto'o.
We don't have a single player who resembles that kind of quality. Nevertheless, they weren't interchanging as much as you would suggest. After 10mins Messi and Eto'o switched positions, and from thereon it was mainly Messi droping deep with Eto'o occasionally poping in the middle, and Henry doing what is expected of every wide forward.

However, I do agree that our attacking patterns are lacking, and that we need some serious work to be done regarding that matter.
I like how you say Messi the GOAT, Henry the PL GOAT....and Eto'o. :lol:

I know you probably don't mean to down play Eto'o but he was a truly brilliant striker. For some reason not as iconic as some others from his generation but he was up there with the best I've seen.
 

M Bison

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Take a look at Tevez-Ronaldo-Rooney.

It’s not just those 3, the movement on the whole team is fantastic. Full backs and midfield providing options further forward is great to watch.

Such a good team, 9 of the 11 would have got in any team (Brown possibly not and also Kuscak)
 

eire-red

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Take a look at Tevez-Ronaldo-Rooney.


For that Tevez missed header, Ronaldo plays the pass and busts a gut to get into the box, would have headed it in if Tevez left it. We don't see any of that in this current squad. It's not just the quality of the player that's lacking. Tevez, Rooney, Ronaldo, Carrick, Giggs and Scholes. They're all far ahead of what we currently have, but worked harder and had way more desire and grit.

These guys didn't just play nice football, they wanted to win and score so badly. Wish we could see that in our team. Lingard, Martial and Rashford seemed to have confused a fluid attack with each taking turns to play the no.10 role, which often leaves nobody in the box. How often have we seen James/one of the full backs whip a cross in and nobody in the box, no one getting across the front post, nobody busting a lung to get in there, no midfield arriving late.
 

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To even consider our front three (whoever those 3 are) that fluid we would need a world class midfield that is going to provide them with enough balls through the game. We, quite simply put, don't. Both Eto'o (except that one time for Jose) and Henry weren't really players that tracked back so I would imagine them fading into the mediocrity of our current squad and not influencing games regulary. But having said all this I think Greenwood has the tools for such a front three.
 

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Think before starting threads, it would do you a world of good. What was the point of this one? We’re nowhere near as good as prime Barca under Pep with possibly one of the best XIs ever fielded? Well colour me shocked! :eek:
 

elmo

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I'll maintain that Saha/Rooney/Ronaldo was probably one of the best Frontline that we've had when they were fit.

Tevez was a great player, but that trio was carried due to how ridiculously efficient Ronaldo was.
 

w1thout

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I like how you say Messi the GOAT, Henry the PL GOAT....and Eto'o. :lol:

I know you probably don't mean to down play Eto'o but he was a truly brilliant striker. For some reason not as iconic as some others from his generation but he was up there with the best I've seen.
Yeah I just ran out of superlatives :lol:
Eto'o was on par with Henry for me
 

Gehrman

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That whole team was basically a cheatcode: Valdes - Abidal, Pique, Puyol, Alves - Iniesta, Y. Toure, Xavi - Henry, Eto'o, Messi
Ridiculous! Has there ever been fielded a better 11?

I think we are missing a few parts of this puzzle...
I thought their 2011 team was better.
 

Jam

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It’s all well and good comparing to the best and trying to achieve anything close to that but the context is worlds apart.

That front three was arguably three of the top five attacking players in the world. All of them excelled at every part of the game. They could all beat a man, all finish, all had pace, all had excellent movement regardless of tactical system.

You put that three, and all their talents, in front of the one of the best midfields in their generation with unparalleled progressive ball retention and passing capabilities, and an impeccably solid defence all under one of the best coaches in the world with a team that perfectly suited his system.

That Barcelona team was absolutely a perfect storm.

Like others have said we can’t even try to replication the fluidity of them because our players don’t have the dribbling capabilities they do, they can’t rely on others playing off their movement, they can’t rely on the midfield behind them to pick them out or progress with the ball allowing them free movement. The list goes on.

You can just imagine James/Martial/Rashford running about like headless chickens, Fred running forwards, looking up, and just smashing it out for a throw in.

We need to have less advanced systems in place that compliment what we have. It’s absolutely pointless forcing a system that we don’t have the personnel for. The last time we had anything close to capable of that Barcelona style was Fergie’s last great team, which was still a level below that actual Barcelona team and we still played an adjusted style that didn’t just replicate them.
 

Ludens the Red

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Great example of El Classico game, with some decent commentary. Notice how Messi, Eto'o and Henry alter positions to constantly strech RM's defense, creating spaces and then running or crossing into those spaces.


There is truly world of difference between what these guys are doing and the very predictable, repeatable, and futile attempts of Martial - Rashford - James trio. Obviously Messi, Eto'o and Henry were the best of the best, but you can notice it is not just about our trio lacking fundamental skills, we have enough basic skills for the kinds of teams we usually play, it's the situational awareness and tactical thinking that is very poor.

Our attacking guys need some intense coaching to develop their footballing intelligence, it's not just the mechanics of good passing and sharp shooting that is lacking. And they need it now.
As a few have said yeah it’s Henry, Etoo and Messi but I think your basic point still stands and I’ve badgered on about it before too but our forwards are badly if not at all coached. It’s all very raw and basic. As great a manager Mourinho has been he’s not one to coach attacking patterns and now we’ve replaced him with someone who I’m not sure actually even knows how to. It wouldn’t be so bad if the coaches working under Ole were able to imprint some attacking play but it doesn’t happen. Our players aren’t stupid either, I always see posters questioning their intelligence but that’s not what it is.
 

MyOnlySolskjaer

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I'll maintain that Saha/Rooney/Ronaldo was probably one of the best Frontline that we've had when they were fit.

Tevez was a great player, but that trio was carried due to how ridiculously efficient Ronaldo was.
Bit of bias I think, Saha was good but Tevez was fantastic. Rooney and Tevez together were two technical pit-bulls and they were a big factor to Ronaldo’s goal scoring.

Evra even said Tevez was better than Rooney.
 

Leftback99

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Do you have any examples of this where they aren't 3 of the best players in the world? Saying it's all about 'coaching' doesn't work otherwise.
 

roonster09

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Do you have any examples of this where they aren't 3 of the best players in the world? Saying it's all about 'coaching' doesn't work otherwise.
Mane, Firmino, Salah before they were among the best in the world.

Haller, Rebic, Jovic last season.
 

Leftback99

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Mane, Firmino, Salah before they were among the best in the world.

Haller, Rebic, Jovic last season.
Extremely rare then. I can't say i know much about Frankfurt, they haven't changed manager so under the same coaching are the current front 3 similarly fluid?
 

roonster09

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Extremely rare then. I can't say i know much about Frankfurt, they haven't changed manager so under the same coaching are the current front 3 similarly fluid?
Of course you need at least decent players. You can't make bebe play as messi no matter what.
 

Tom Cato

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I love how you're using a trio of world greats + the GOAT, and add in a team full of football legends as the supporting cast, and use them to exemplify how we are not doing this.

Man, the manager of Barca at that time barely had to show up to work.
 

He'sRaldo

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Mane, Firmino, Salah before they were among the best in the world.

Haller, Rebic, Jovic last season.
I didn't watch too much of Frankfurt but didn't they score tons of counter-attacking goals? That's what I noticed from the team breakdown I watched at the time.

We can score on the counter no problem, it's facing parked buses that's an issue and I don't think that Frankfurt trio had to do that on a regular basis.
 

Jam

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Bit of bias I think, Saha was good but Tevez was fantastic. Rooney and Tevez together were two technical pit-bulls and they were a big factor to Ronaldo’s goal scoring.

Evra even said Tevez was better than Rooney.
I miss the Evra/Park/Tevez bromance.
 

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This! Let’s use them as a stick to beat Utd with.

Ducking state of this place
That's about my first reaction. Of course if you hold everything to the standard of one of the best attacking trios to ever play the game our team will always look like shit. :lol:

It's the same attitude with our young players at times. "Oh my god he is 21 already, CR had already score a bazillion goals at this age, why are our players so shiiiit???"
 

NoLogo

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Take a look at Tevez-Ronaldo-Rooney.

Loved watching those three, so sad this didn't last longer. :(

Also I sometimes forget how unselfish Ronaldo played in those days. He just happened to be the stand out player of an already amazing attacking force, but he always had an eye for a better positioned teammate. Something he imo lost during his time at Real where he would simply take every shot he could.
 
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r3idy

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Three world class strikers in their prime with arguably a world class midfield behind them in one of the least competitive leagues in Europe. Fast forward to today where we have three young players nowhere near their prime, with the exception of Daniel James, both Rashford and Martial have been carrying injuries or out with injuries. But hey lets compare (or beat) the current developing set up to one of Henry Eto'o, Messi.
 

UpWithRivers

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Messie drops deep more like a number 10. Lets match him and Lingard. :lol: Its a ridiculous comparison but saying that our front three are miles off. Even simple movement especially with low block sides is severely lacking, And their interchange is non existent. It winds me up no end. Football is about intelligence as much as anything and I know they are young but the greats would always try and figure out how to beat an opponent. Our front three do the same things and if it doesn't work. Sulk.