Well there were protests outside Parliament the day after he was elected where people where protesting against his racism....
Westminster Politics
- Thread starter altodevil
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Because we're dealing with mass hysteria. Nothing right now is going to make sense.
And what else
Well, the media should have certainly shone a light on it more than they have but we are governed largely by a media that is right wing and is supportive of the Conservative Party so they are not going to, not sure what you are expecting?
and helped by useful idiots credulously doing their work on the leading manchester united forum
So you don’t believe there is any issue of antisemitism within the Labour Party ?
I'm sure there is some, as there is probably in any large group of people. I dont think its anywhere near the amount of attention people like you constantly gave it, nor do I think its even as bad as the amount in their direct rivals which was barely mentioned by you and your ilk. It was blatantly weaponized in bad faith by people who were politically opposed to Corbyn. Then there's the credulous liberals like you who I believe genuinely care about the issue but ended up as useful idiots for people who dont care at all.
It's one thing to point out Corbyn's failures but it's another thing to call out voters making a different choice as the losers legacy. For instance i can't remember Clinton or Brown leaving a legacy of Trump or Austerity respectively.
Failures should be learned of course but it's also worthwhile looking at voters as if they have actually freewill and it isn't just the centre-lefts or lefts fault for not getting their vote. It's the arrogance of assuming voters naturally sit with your preferred party.
I think my frustration lay in the absolute shocking way it has been handled for years under Corbyn, and the way defenders of Corbyn were completely (or largely) dismissive of the concerns of Jewish people. This should have been put to bed years ago, and would have been under a competent leader. That the EHRC have had to get involved is a damning indictment.
That's what people like you would say.
i believe i said ilk
This is still pissing me off the more i keep hearing/seeing it.
Where have the proud Tory voters gone from these threads? Proud of this are we? Merry christmas, try not to choke on your turkey
Doesn’t the long history of the red wall, and it suddenly turning blue, suggest that those voters did naturally sit with their preferred party, until a situation occurred (brexit) where they believed they had to change from their natural position
Govt gives green light to £4bn takeover of defence giant Cobham
https://news.sky.com/story/governme...4bn-takeover-of-defence-giant-cobham-11891882
Cobham family critical of ‘cynical’ sale of defence firm
https://dailybusinessgroup.co.uk/2019/12/cobham-family-critical-of-cynical-sale-of-defence-firm/
https://news.sky.com/story/governme...4bn-takeover-of-defence-giant-cobham-11891882
Cobham family critical of ‘cynical’ sale of defence firm
https://dailybusinessgroup.co.uk/2019/12/cobham-family-critical-of-cynical-sale-of-defence-firm/
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Can someone tell me why the columnist Owen Jones is, apparently, so disliked? Thanks.
The actions and words of Corbyn's faction since losing the election show that McDonnell was simply paying lip service. They're playing a blame game to try and absolve themselves of all responsibility and cling onto the direction of the Labour party despite the country flat out rejecting their vision for this country. Do you need reminding that this was a worse performance than the infamous 1983 election? Which is quite remarkable when you consider the crazy platform that Foot was running on.
What the Labour party needs is a complete re-branding. It needs to become a broad church again and appeal to working class voters, centrists and old people alike. This is impossible with Corbyn's faction in control of the party. Not least because the country has no appetite for Corbyn's vision of the country but also because the 'talent' attracted to this narrow sect are woefully inadequate at every level. I don't buy your theory that the 65+ age group is impossible to win back. In 97 the biggest demographic collapse for the Tories was the 45-55 age group so I don't believe the idea that they're lost forever. It just seems like another weak rationalisation as to why you should keep trying to sell the British public a politics that they don't want.
You can cling onto to Corbyn's green policy if you want. It was better than the other main parties admittedly, The big glaring inconvenience is that if you're incapable of winning power its utterly redundant.
The problem here is the refusal to accept the reality that the British public are not going to put in power a Labour party with an agenda in the image of Corbynism. This was one of the worst performances in the history of the Labour party and came close to destroying it all together. Corbyn has delivered swathes of Labours traditional base into the hands of the Tories. This is no ordinary defeat.
You can also frame it as the arrogance to refuse to read the writing on the wall.
How do win these people over then because so far you've given me nothing.
So............
Well yeah no shit. But again its pointless winning power if your policies will fail to address climate change.
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New survey reveals 79% of Britons think the nation is on the wrong track
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/ukne...-track/ar-BBYcNLG?li=AAnZ9Ug&ocid=mailsignout
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/ukne...-track/ar-BBYcNLG?li=AAnZ9Ug&ocid=mailsignout
The biggest thing is that you need to abandon Corbynism to win them over. They fear Corbyn and his political ilk will bring back the days of their youth when the unions held the country to ransom. They dislike Corbynism because they feel it not only unpatriotic but also a movement that wants them to feel ashamed of their heritage.
@MikeUpNorth made a detailed post on the reforms that the Labour Party needs and I’d be amazed if you didn’t read it so don’t pretend that there are no ideas out there.
It should have been put to bed in 2010 or any other year but people like you didn't care then, just as you don't care now about Johnson's anti-Semitism. Hand wave it away and get passionate about how anti Semitic Labour are again.
Well brilliant we've finally got there. Although you really could have said us both a lot time.
Yeah I don't read every post on here, so if you could link it that would be great.
Boring.
What's boring is seeing you predictably not care.
Wanting the party to take a more positive view of the strengths of Britain and to drop policies likes educating kids on the crimes of the British Empire to win over this faction of voters does not equate to racism. You're not shutting down criticism of Corbyn in anyone's mind with that position. It's only a part of the reforms that have been suggested in this thread anyway.
Mikes post
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/next-labour-leader.452249/page-11#post-25049735
Whitewashing our racist history is racist in and of itself and will also continue to encourage racism so no fecking thanks.
Its whitewashed if you never win power regardless. There are lots of ways that Labour could fight racism if it got into power. Without power these morals are largely redundant.
So you're saying win power then implement the policy of teaching about how scummy our history is?
That‘s what someone smart would do.
What is the evidence that such a measure would even do anything to combat racism anyway?
Oh here we go.
What do you mean? I was assuming there’s a proven link, the one came to mind was perhaps Germany, with it being a country that had to face its sins and brutal past. I found this report from the EU that shows Germany actually has a lot more racial harassment incidents than the UK, which has some of the lowest in Europe.
https://fra.europa.eu/sites/default/files/fra_uploads/fra-2018-being-black-in-the-eu_en.pdf
I do appreciate that structural inequality is different to street level harassment so if there’s anything to add there I’d be interested to hear it.
I don’t think it’s controversial to ask if such a policy actually has any practical use, or if it’s just hard left self-indulgent virtue signalling that’s costing the party votes and hindering any chance of getting into power and actually affecting change for minorities.
Partly because he's outspoken in his political beliefs both in his writing and on social media, to the point of being seen as something of an activist as much as a journalist. Which will always see you attract some criticism from some quarters. Especially when your political POV is percieved to be that of a woke, politically-correct, feminist, millenial socialist.
Even among the left he has provoked ire by being outspokenly pro-Corbyn and pro-Momentum, which further divides people against him. He also made a somewhat pro-Brexit argument at one point, which irritated some on the left.
Beyond that, he himself has said the way he looks is part of issue. Despite being in his mid thirties some people tend to percieve him as an immature, studenty type figure, which when combined with his political POV makes it easy for some to dismiss him as having a smug, callow world view.
He is also gay, which again atttacts its own hate from some people.
I'll try and give you a more detailed answer when I have time but it should be bleeding obvious that teaching that our country isn't actually perfect would square differently with our imperial past and the encouragement of nationalistic attitudes.
Thanks very much, sully. 
I asked because there's been an unpleasant Owen Jones hashtag trending on Twitter today.
I asked because there's been an unpleasant Owen Jones hashtag trending on Twitter today.
Teaching about the British Empire is a double edged sword because it’s also the story of how Britain improbably came to rule the world and shape much of the world we live in today. I tend to think that it’s also left out of the NC for as much as it may engender ideas of exceptionalism in those with nationalistic tendencies.
I would add that I understand the hard left theory of why they think it would reduce racism and exceptionalism but I was curious if there was any real world proof.
Personally I think that it should be taught in schools, although as a whole story rather than what Labour are proposing. Just teaching the ‘injustices’ feels like a different type of social conditioning.
Probably something to do with this?Thanks very much, sully.
I asked because there's been an unpleasant Owen Jones hashtag trending on Twitter today.
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
The economic conditions will not be met as a direct result of the form of Brexit being proposed by the very same political party. Right now you'll say "well we don't know that for sure" and when it inevitably happens you'll say "well it could've gone either way and it was reasonable at the time". That's the problem.
'The BBC is considering restricting its journalists’ use of Twitter. If the plan is approved, top correspondents will be told to move away from using online platforms to break stories or offer instant analysis.
The proposal follows criticism of online comments made by staff during the election campaign. Political editor Laura Kuenssberg was attacked by some Jeremy Corbyn supporters for repeating, along with other pundits, a false allegation that a Tory minister’s aide had been punched by a Labour activist. North America editor Jon Sopel has meanwhile been accused of tweets that reveal a critical stance on Donald Trump.
Now Fran Unsworth, the director of news and current affairs, is believed to be keen to persuade journalists to end the practice of frequently posting on politics and current affairs.'
(Guardian)
The proposal follows criticism of online comments made by staff during the election campaign. Political editor Laura Kuenssberg was attacked by some Jeremy Corbyn supporters for repeating, along with other pundits, a false allegation that a Tory minister’s aide had been punched by a Labour activist. North America editor Jon Sopel has meanwhile been accused of tweets that reveal a critical stance on Donald Trump.
Now Fran Unsworth, the director of news and current affairs, is believed to be keen to persuade journalists to end the practice of frequently posting on politics and current affairs.'
(Guardian)
It’s an interesting idea IMO because it would hinder emotional and and potentially impartial expressions of the news.
Anything to stop the left from being the useful idiots that aid the destruction of one of the few socialist institutions left in this country anyway.
Anything to stop the left from being the useful idiots that aid the destruction of one of the few socialist institutions left in this country anyway.
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
Way too late as the damage has already been done, and so its worthless tokenism. Probably just a presumptive act before they get hammered by OfCom.
Whether I'm right or not, I truly believe that some BBC journalists were strategically biased in an attempt to sway public opinion towards pro brexit and win votes for conservatives. And this bias had TopTeam approval. Because of that belief, I now actively avoid BBC News. Millions feel the same way. Trust in the BBC has take a generational hit, perhaps equal to how Liverpool residents felt about The Sun directly after Hillsborough.