We've conceded 25 goals in the league this season after 21 matches. We conceded 54 goals last season in the league. If it goes on like this there is barely an improvement.
Our Defence - Has it actually been fixed?
- Thread starter Untd55
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
It doesn’t matter if you’re a fan of them or not, they’re in the engine room of the best team in the pl, it is obvious that they are nowhere near shit and are in fact excellent in performing their duties in that Liverpool team.
Where's those idiots posting stats that say we're good at defense and it's all just bad luck that we're conceding and dropping points?
It's clear as hell that our defense as a team hasn't improved at all despite spending so much over the summer.
It's clear as hell that our defense as a team hasn't improved at all despite spending so much over the summer.
Come on now, we're conceding goals for fun everytime McT is injured.
Some other games it's shocking individual errors that can be fixed given the time.
All I can say is we now have central defenders who are better with the ball at their feet but I really cannot see a great deal of difference on the defensive side.
Lindelof or Maguire are not quick and Lindelof is not good in the air whereas Smalling was good at both and he was a threat from set pieces as well.
Axel looks promising but he seems to get injured often and he really has not played that much at all this season.
Maybe our current two just need more time together and only time will tell.
Lindelof or Maguire are not quick and Lindelof is not good in the air whereas Smalling was good at both and he was a threat from set pieces as well.
Axel looks promising but he seems to get injured often and he really has not played that much at all this season.
Maybe our current two just need more time together and only time will tell.
Football is a team game. The players in defence are now better than last year. But the team still has glaring issues in front of them, meaning pressure builds throughout matches, and indeed at left back, where Shaw hasn’t so much kicked on as kicked backwards.
The defense is only as good as the protection in front of them and behind. Yes, we have better defense this year but it's hard to keep the numbers down when we have no depth in midfield and an average keeper living off past glories...
There isn't a point discussing this with you. A defence is not built on individuals rather the team.
Why not give last year's defence the same leeway?
Do they or do they not do the job? you can't hide behind hypothetical's, the fact is they have that midfield and are running away with the league.
The players play for the club, United players are all way too focused on individual hype. We need to become a team working together before we have a chance of competing.
I do think that if we improved our midfield it would help our defence. I am also still not convinced of Lindelof and Maguire as a pairing.
Potentially the first team defence is better than it was, Maguire and AWB have been improvements and every time I see Brandon Williams I hope he can take over from Shaw, sooner rather than later. Shaw is still too often losing concentration and goes absent in terms of his defensive duties and that puts a strain on the other defenders. Lindelof is a cause for concern at times but he's improving if somewhat gradually. In terms of a squad defence we have able replacements to cover minor injuries,/short periods of cover etc., with Young, Tuanzebe, Jones, and when fit, Dalot, Rojo, Fosu-Mensah.
With a stronger midfield e.g. when McTominay's playing we look more solid defensively, but nothings really fixed anywhere in the team!
With a stronger midfield e.g. when McTominay's playing we look more solid defensively, but nothings really fixed anywhere in the team!
Should have kept Smalling and Valencia, spent that amount in a midfielder or winger .
It's not like we have improved defensively.
25 conceded
Thats 1.19 goals per game this year.
Our average last 4 years.
2018/19
1.42
2017/18
1.05
2016/17
0.76
2015/16
.92
It's not like we have improved defensively.
25 conceded
Thats 1.19 goals per game this year.
Our average last 4 years.
2018/19
1.42
2017/18
1.05
2016/17
0.76
2015/16
.92
So we had a better defensive record when we had smalling and blind mostly in our central defence, two defenders that a lot of fans on the forum think we were better off without
Because we passed the ball around in midfield for 90 minutes without having a shot on target and ended up boring ourselves and the opposition to death.
I think we did. AWB is a huge upgrade. Yes attacking wise he’s not good, but Valencia wasn’t good at it either and AWB is a better defender. Maguire for Smalling is the same quality so we didn’t get better or worse there. Brandon Williams is good and there’s reason for optimism there.
Valencia is playing in South American he is finished so please talk sense . He is finished he knew it and everyone else did maybe apart from you ?
For the money that we have spent, we replaced Smalling with Lindelof, OK shelf a few unreliable CB for a more stable formation. Add WAB. DDG is slightly improved in terms of confidence, compared with last season. But we are still as leaking as last season? Something to do with the tactics and setup, what do you think?
We struggle to control games and stifle the opposition with possession football. We gift the incentive to the opposition and often play too passively. It's not a problem that's isolated to the back 4. Shaw, AWB, Maguire and Lindelof are all good defenders.
I think it's a collective mix poor game management, control, maturity and mentality within the team itself. Individual mistakes from our defenders have also cost us but in general we're just not a well coached team, from either a defensive or attacking point of view.
I think it's a collective mix poor game management, control, maturity and mentality within the team itself. Individual mistakes from our defenders have also cost us but in general we're just not a well coached team, from either a defensive or attacking point of view.
Which means the team's defense is flawed and hasn't improved.
Good defense don't make stupid errors weekly like ours does. There's only so much you can blame on individual errors when it's happening every week. The coaching is terrible and you're seeing the effect on our performance.
What more evidence do you all need that our coaching is terrible and it's leading to poor performance over the season, the dropping of points and lousy goals conceding isn't enough? Stop blaming bad luck and injury when the effort just isn't there in some games.
The CAF wanted Young and Smalling to be replaced. They were. The defence is still shite.
Certainly not fixed. Maguire for Smalling is an upgrade on the ball and certainly helps to play out from the back (or pointlessly hold the ball for 30 seconds at the start of every attack). Defensively, it's a downgrade. Smalling is a much better defender.
At full back, they've done the opposite. Wan Bissaka is an upgrade defensively but very weak going forward which is a huge issue for the United attack.
The biggest issue with this is that they spent £130m and there is a good chance that if another manager replaced Ole, he may want a better defender than Maguire and a better offensive full back than Wan Bissaka.
At full back, they've done the opposite. Wan Bissaka is an upgrade defensively but very weak going forward which is a huge issue for the United attack.
The biggest issue with this is that they spent £130m and there is a good chance that if another manager replaced Ole, he may want a better defender than Maguire and a better offensive full back than Wan Bissaka.
No.
Overall, improve slightly but actually, not "really".
+ AWB, Will
+ & - Mag
- Smalling
Defenders - improving a bit, with Mag and AWB joining, mostly because they're more often than not available. Smalling out on loan though meant we have one less good option. Too many deadwood defenders remaining who are stealing a living by being mia.
Defending Quality - AWB improves the right side but no Smalling to hold lead or defend centre is a miss. Average. Tbf, Mag offers something else not defending related, but hey his defending is questionable.
Defence Structure/Organization - still so bad. And getting worse. I doubt the current coaching team is good at it. We also have no players to do that.
GK - crucial part of defence. 1st choice keeper still having his probably mental-consistent problems which the manager is not capable of managing.
Overall, improve slightly but actually, not "really".
+ AWB, Will
+ & - Mag
- Smalling
Defenders - improving a bit, with Mag and AWB joining, mostly because they're more often than not available. Smalling out on loan though meant we have one less good option. Too many deadwood defenders remaining who are stealing a living by being mia.
Defending Quality - AWB improves the right side but no Smalling to hold lead or defend centre is a miss. Average. Tbf, Mag offers something else not defending related, but hey his defending is questionable.
Defence Structure/Organization - still so bad. And getting worse. I doubt the current coaching team is good at it. We also have no players to do that.
GK - crucial part of defence. 1st choice keeper still having his probably mental-consistent problems which the manager is not capable of managing.
Last edited:
Definitely, also DDG's old frailty of staying on his line has comeback to haunt him. Maguire and Lindelöf still don't realise David never, ever comes more than a metre off his line, hence whenever they forget this and the opponent puts in the right kind of cross, usually from a dead ball situation, then we are 'undone'.
There is no Carrick to patrol in front of the back four, although in his first season Matic did this admirably, but his fitness, especially his speed has diminished, and though he tries to make up for this through experience and his anticipation, he still needs young legs around him.
Shaw whilst offering something going forward, still makes the same defensive mistakes as he did when he arrived and there is now no Mourinho to run up and down the touchline to tell him where he should be. When Shaw is not where he should be we are exposed down the left side, especially when McTominay, (or even Pogba) are absent.
Against Arsenal the problem was on our right flank, with both Kolasinac and Aubameyang driving down on AWB, one pulling him out of position whilst the other played through. James didn't seem to realise he had to give some cover and when he did Kolasinac was too strong for him. Fred and Matic were struggling manfully in midfield, and couldn't get across to help, but the truth was Ole misjudged the tactics Arsenal would use, their attacking set up seem to puzzle us, although bearing in mind they had to win the game to avoid sinking further towards relegation zone, it should not have been a surprise.
I like Ole and think he will be successful, but it cannot blind us to the fact he still has a lot to learn as a manager, in terms of set up and tactics and definitely needs the help of a DoF.
I think our defensive options are pretty decent. I would ditch Jones and get Mike back in the squad, but I can't see any significant weakness in it. It's easily good enough to be going on with. Until the team starts to play at close to 100 percent of its potential I can't see any reason to worry. Midfield, then attack, then defense.
Are you serious?
Our two starting fullbacks are useless in attack. Our two starting centrebacks are slow. Our keeper is defensive as f on crosses and seldom leaves his line... We have bought two defensive options for £130m that are more suited to play during the worst Catenaccio era than today.
We gave a new stupid contract to our "outdated" keeper, our main leftback is on a contract that even winning all the eating contests in the world would not compare to, mitigating for our centrebacks weaknesses forces us to drop deep when not on the ball...
If we had even an average goalkeeper, we would likely be quite content with our defensive performances:
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
Bollocks
Just because De Gea is letting in more then we should, doesn't mean our defence is doing well... fact is they're conceding these chances that he's letting in.
If we conceded just an average number of goals based on those expected we would have the second fewest goals conceded in the league.
Even more worrying if you consider the amount of goals we've conceded from corners due to De Geas reluctance to come out off his line (as opposed to just standing there watching the ball go past him as he often does).
Ive been calling this out for years now, it's nothing personal against the lad, but he is quite simply the most overrated player in world football.
Aside from the Mourinhio era, when we were playing park the bus football, our defence has struggled since literally the day he signed for the club.
Im not for one second suggesting that it's all his fault, some of our defenders have just been bad signings, but if your keeper is constantly glued to his line with no ability to come out and command the box then it makes life a lot harder.
This notion of him being our saviour is the biggest myth in world football.
Being a good or even great shot stopper (highly debatable now anyway of course) surely cannot compensate for being absolutely woeful at every other aspect of goalkeeping, it's common sense.
Romero needs to be given a chance ASAP, surely even De Gea's biggest fans must now be curious to see if that could make a difference, we've tried everything else, different defenders, we've tried different goalkeeping coaches and we've now tried a new contract (which some fans bizarrely thought was the answer) and none of that has worked.
Last edited:
I agree with most of what you say. He's the best shot-stopper I've seen but he's hopeless with crosses (and also coming out 1 v 1). Nevertheless he's been good enough until the league game at Arsenal last season. The end of the season for him was a disaster, errors all over the place. Witout them we may have squeezed top four. He's not been too bad this season but he should've been sold last summer not offered a stupid contract. I'd sell him this summer and go with Hendo and Romero.
Factually you are wrong.
Nobody is saying that our defenders are all on top form, clearly they aren't.
However, it's a fact, that our keepers absolutely woeful form is making them look worse then they are.
Same goes for the latter part of last season.
It's a massive issue in my opinion and the fact that our manager and a lot of fans either don't realise it or, are in denial about it, makes it an even bigger problem.
No its not, it's a fact that our keepers woeful form is making him look crap... our defenders doing mind boggling stupid shit on a regular basis is what makes them look rubbish.
I think you're being kind there, and even if that was true, is 'not too bad' good enough for someone who people insist is one of the best in the world?
With us mugs paying him on that basis.
I know De Gea hasn't been in the best of form but I often think our full backs contribute to a lot of our defensive woes. They do get off lightly. Maguire and Lindelof have a few issues but on the whole I don't think they've been that bad this season. An injury to one of them and we're fecked (or even more fecked)
I don't think we have scored more goals.
Im agreeing with you that our defenders aren't delivering either.
However this graph factually proves that they are being made to look even worse than what they are because of the keeper.
If De Gea was even in average form instead of embarrassing form then we would have more clean sheets and therefore the defence would be getting more credit, it's a fact so there's no point in arguing about it.
We are still one centre back to go to judge the result. And also make sure our midfield can stay away from injury, not helping the defense as well if Fred has to do a one man job alone to protect them.