We were 21st in the table when Fergie took over.
The “Ole In” Brigade
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
You’ll work it out pal.
I'm not even sure what Klopp's involvement with my above comment has to do with anything he's done in his infancy at Liverpool but I'll entertain this notion. Depends how you want to go about dissecting a managers capabilities, let's just ignore everything that Klopp already did with Dortmund, his coaching philosophy and ethos as a manager long before stepping into Liverpool to the degree our own Sir Alex predicted he'd win the league on the premise of what he had seen outside of England.
Considering Klopp took over in October and Ole not too dissimilar a period under Jose, Solskjaer finished 6th so we will consider that his first season if it's also considered the same for Klopps. Jürgen was also able to reach the Europa League finals and a league cup final in that period. That means he has context to his résumé, he didn't win those competitions but there's enough of a platform to see how Liverpool could improve under his management he's already earning his time.
Solskjaer has finished 6th, it would be inconsequential to give him time without a top 4 finish for a variety of reasons namingly recruitment, the perceived direction of the club and after spending 140 million, to not have any viable domestic progression will render us in a position of decline since appointing him.
There is no comparison between Klopp's infancy at Liverpool and Solskjaer's because Klopp's managerial career didn't start in England it began in the Germany. He already had a reputation from his prior success which gained him notability around Europe. Klopp becoming who he has (the best manager in the world) means he has fulfilled his potential as a manager. Potential means your showing signs of something great but it's not quite manifested itself at oresent. In Solskjaer's 10 year career he hasn't shown the potential to do anything remotely noteworthy in world football.
The analogy I can use best to define this ridiculous comparison is like assessing the fastest driver on bumper cars and comparing them to Michael Schumacher.
Sorry pal, im getting old forgot their were 22 teams back then!
Of course he was. Same as Ole is now.
Mourinho got a new deal in January and was told to continue to improve results. And after not beeing backed in the summer he knew that he is not going to improve. So he starts making push on woodward because he was in very good position.
Either Woodward is going to realise he should listen to him, buy him players and then would mourinho improve or he is going to sack him and pay him big time. Which would not matter because he is big name manager and can attract big clubs. Thats why he end up in last year champions league finalist. So it was win win situation for him personally.
How about solskjaer doing it now too?
Well he is nowhere near Mourinho's level of manager. And never will be. This is his top of the mountain and after this his level of clubs interest is going to be much much lower. Maybe they are going to take him back in Norway but in England? Nobody would want him.
So he is sitting by woodward and listening to him because he showed him already that what happen when manager is not listening him with Jose and LVG sacking.
And thats a win for woodward. Because most of the hate and arguing between fans is about Ole and not cheap owners.
Thats why I dont buy that bullsiht talk about 'right players' and 'united way' because everybody knows that our squad is thin and we needs players. And there is bunch of players. You just need to pay. But thats another story.....
If we make the CL, would Ole have earned his time? Top 4 or Europa League winners, doesn't matter.
OK, so let's run with this accusation that Ole, for some reason, doesn't want to spend the club's money and is perfectly happy with the likes of Mata, Pereira, Lingard etc....
Summer 2019 - We spent £145m and recouped about £90m...so I'd estimate net spend to be about £55m
My question to you is, how much money do you think Manchester United had (or should have had) available for transfers in the Summer of 2019?
20m for James, 50 for AWB and 80 for Maguire alongside 10m for Mejbri makes it roughly 160m spent.
We received roughly 75m pounds for Lukaku and you can probably add up to 80m pounds with deals for Darmian and Smalling (loan)
Our net spend has been around 80m pounds. More than enough to give to a rookie manager and expect progress and to mount a top 4 challenge.
Transfermarkd has Lukaku at 65m EUR at a lower valuation and say that we are at 89.5m EUR net.
https://www.transfermarkt.com/manchester-united/transfers/verein/985
77/78 10th, 78/79 9th, as you did the following year as you stated 2nd, the following we had dropped back down to 6th, 87/88 11th, the following season 13th, those stats are here because you brought it up, as I was talking actual playing style and not just where we ended up.
And you claim liverpool were two times reigning champs of Europe, wrong as that was the mighty Notts Forrest who won it 78/79, 79/80
I've missed the reigning champions and two times EC champions as Liverpool won the domestic title in 77/78.
Even moreso we finished 2nd in an era when teams like Forest and Liverpool were pretty good both domestically and in Europe.
Care to show us how Liverpool's style was much better than some of ours during that time?
Liverpool often finished 7th and 8th during their barren run.
I actually think that 50% of the "Ole In" fans in here support another team and are just taking the piss . There were some boos at half time yesterday so match going fans are starting to break .
The general point about people comparing the first few years of the Fergie era always gets lost by people for me. I don't think the people that say it are ever trying to say that that is going to happen again, it's more a point that you can't always judge a manager at the start.
People also talk about Fergie earning time due to his spell at Aberdeen blah blah blah. It's all hindsight bollocks. If this forum existed back then without the knowledge of what was to come, I bet you very few people would be saying that.
Of the problems at the club, the board and the quality of the squad are bigger problems than the manager so regardless of whether Ole is here for the long term or not, I wouldn't exactly expect much in the near future.
People also talk about Fergie earning time due to his spell at Aberdeen blah blah blah. It's all hindsight bollocks. If this forum existed back then without the knowledge of what was to come, I bet you very few people would be saying that.
Of the problems at the club, the board and the quality of the squad are bigger problems than the manager so regardless of whether Ole is here for the long term or not, I wouldn't exactly expect much in the near future.
100% Right
Comparing Klopp to Solskjaer(after the laughing stopped)outside the bizarro world of the cafe would automatically label you a football idiot, it's like comparing Troy Deeney to Ronaldo.
No they're not and they were booing the performance, not the manager.
How are you certain of that? The big mistake of the first half was the setup of the team and the tactics , and thats on the manager.
"Our net spend has been around 80m pounds. More than enough to give to a rookie manager and expect progress and to mount a top 4 challenge. "
No. Our net spend was 65M pounds. See https://www.transferleague.co.uk/ma...sh-football-teams/manchester-united-transfers
But our net investment was a mere 25M given the loss of Herrera conservatively estimated at 40M pounds. The rebuilding claim is nothing more than a smokescreen. 25M is not enough to keep pace with our rivals.
No. Our net spend was 65M pounds. See https://www.transferleague.co.uk/ma...sh-football-teams/manchester-united-transfers
But our net investment was a mere 25M given the loss of Herrera conservatively estimated at 40M pounds. The rebuilding claim is nothing more than a smokescreen. 25M is not enough to keep pace with our rivals.
So....your saying Ole DID spend enough money? Which is interesting because most of the criticisms of Ole seems to be that he didn't spend enough money?
There were more teams in the league then
I'm saying you can't expect the board to give a complete nobody 200-300m pounds just because he's smiling.
He is criticized for how he spent it and choosing not to address certain positions and not to reinforce certain positions.
It’s only lost on those trying to say that giving a proven rubbish manager time could get you results.
Giving a genius manager who has proven his genius at earlier clubs AND his current club could/should get you results. There are plenty of examples of this.
So @AndyMUFC, give me just one example of manager with a decade as poor as Ole’s that has then gone into a club, been awful for 13 months but given time and then suddenly turned into a genius?
Just one example.
2 hours later and it’s as expected, tumbleweed blowing through the thread.
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Yeah having stood on the terraces at that time in the united road end, we always looked like we could beat anyone in the world on our day, you cannot say the same with these deadbeats.
The booing was because the team shit the bed after City scored the first goal. United were the better team until that happened. I'm certain.
Who shouldn’t he have bought and who should he have bought instead?
CM, ST, RB(attacking), RW and CB - in this order of importance.
Also not spent 90% of the budget on CB and RB.
Sorry but wrong again mate, as Forrest won it 77/78 by seven points, and how am I suppose to show you, as unless sadtube has some vids from the 90's/00's on it, as cant show you style based on league finishes, stats as we both know never tell the whole story of a game. Only thing I could suggest if you have sky sports, look at the season reviews shows and you see they had a better style than we have at the moment after they got shot of that bitter scots man.
ps: won't be able to respond now till tomorrow, as just out of posts sadly.
While they're not exactly the trophies we wanted, up until recently we were still winning as much or more silverware than the other clubs in this country. I'll take that as our worst period for ages. It's just frustrating to see Liverpool and City as the ones winning all the big things now which is probably what's resulting more uproar in the last year or two.
I think maybe you need to get out of this mentality as much as I should go into it? There's probably a more balanced view than both of us, but I don't think we can necessarily take this approach any more just because "We're Man Utd!" It's gone and it's been gone for a while. My personal opinion on it is that it's going to take an extra-ordinate amount of money to get anywhere close to the glory days again if we aim to do it quickly and even then, I'd bet it would still take longer than a lot of us would hope. We've tried the approach of big name managers and masses of money which didn't work, so I can understand the board not wanting to do it again right away (although I'd argue they need to go first). I'll keep saying it, but we could try multiple managers and spend £200m+ three seasons in a row and I wouldn't be surprised if we're almost no closer than we are now (bar maybe being in the Champion's League most years again). However, I think we can do the latter of being in the Champion's League most years by taking the more laboured and slow approach we are now.
If you look at our club historically, we haven't been one to spend silly money every season. Just look at it and you'll see that the expectations do not meet the reality. 19/20 net spend (so far) = £80m, 18/19 net spend = £47m, 17/18 net spend = £132m, 16/17 net spend = £124m etc. Even our highest outlay (not factoring in players sold) was under £180m, so unless another big name manager comes in we won't even be spending that. I know it isn't all about money, but most of it is. The club aren't waving this magic wand to splash £500m by Summer 2021 or whatever. We are such a big distance away that I'm willing to accept our current method and hope it benefits us more long-term. It may sound defeatist, but I kind of think 'let Liverpool have it' for the moment as it's hard to stay on top once you're there these days.
Odds are if we try another galacticos approach we'll just end up even more of an embarrassment than we are now IMO, but we shall see!
Woodward publicly stated that this was a long term rebuild and we're unlikely to compete during this period. He'll have communicated the same to the shareholders and sponsors but believe me, 'not competing' to these people means getting top 4 at any cost and possibly sneaking a cup. They might be tolerant of 5th for two seasons maybe.
What they will not be tolerant of is embarrassment on and off the pitch, and the club being portrayed as losers. They do not want to be associated with The Losers Club.
If Ole finishes around 8-12th this year he's gone. Ed's phone will be on fire and he'll be asked to display how he plans on pleasing the sponsors/stakeholders and raising positivity around the club on and off the field.
Ed will do what he does then. He'll swing the hammer to prove to his investors that he is also intolerant of this.
Now what happens then is a completely different kettle of fish because the imbecile will probably botch a fifth straight appointment.
What they will not be tolerant of is embarrassment on and off the pitch, and the club being portrayed as losers. They do not want to be associated with The Losers Club.
If Ole finishes around 8-12th this year he's gone. Ed's phone will be on fire and he'll be asked to display how he plans on pleasing the sponsors/stakeholders and raising positivity around the club on and off the field.
Ed will do what he does then. He'll swing the hammer to prove to his investors that he is also intolerant of this.
Now what happens then is a completely different kettle of fish because the imbecile will probably botch a fifth straight appointment.
No I think the owners take the money and line their pockets instead of running the club properly. Come visit OT I will borrow you my season ticket and look around the place is becoming a shit hole. The owners give zero
Because they all got a rise when Jose went just like Chelsea did when they went on and won the CL after Jose left . Do you believe any of the player listed
I know a poor manager like I know poor players like I can see poor owners and a pish poor Ed Woodward. I've never once said Ole is the Messiah I was totally against him getting the job full-time when he did.
My point which alot in here refuse to listen to is we have not got the correct structures in place above our manager to be successful.
Pep would struggle as United manager because we never go the whole way to support a manager . Pep needed 2 full backs after his 1st season he got 3 that cost something like 130 million .
We spent that on 2 defenders last summer but we never would have if Lukaku wasn't on his way for 70 or whatever he cost .
We can go get Poch or whoever but they will have the same problems the rest have had . Yes Poch might make us a bit better but that's not good enough and to match City and Pool we probably need a summer window spending around 300 million and our owners won't ever do that
Except we had already signed those two defenders before we sold Lukaku so how does that work?
We had been playing hardball all summer over his price and until Juve joined the interested clubs there was nothing to indicate we would recoup the 70m we wanted.
But that has nothing to do with your point or mine.
Do you really believe United had no idea Lukaku was going to be sold ? Seriously ?
My point is the club has loads of money but they choose to take most of it out of the club
But that point is not even close to be true, around 95% of the club's revenue are used for operating expenses. I don't even know why people make points like that when we are talking about a PLC.
They undoubtedly knew about the interest from the Italian teams but we set our price and wouldn't budge. To suggest our transfers were tied to sale of Lukaku is simply not true. Had Inter not offered 70m so late in the window there's a good chance he'd still be here.
We signed Maguire 3 days before Lukaku signed for Inter ? This board have very little history of spending huge sums in any one window . For you to try to make out the Inter bid came from no where is niave at best . There was absolutely no chance Lukaku was going to stay and he was always going to Inter
At no point have I implied the Inter bid came out of nowhere. But until Juve entered the race the fact is they were not willing to meet our asking price.
Anyone want to try fielding the question of how Ole's in game management can be so bad that he's actually managed to seriously exacerbate injuries of our 3 most important outfield players in the space of a few months? Pogba, McTominay and now Maguire.
We'll gloss over how 'he just needed a pre season to get the squad up to a proper standard of fitness' etc.
We'll gloss over how 'he just needed a pre season to get the squad up to a proper standard of fitness' etc.
Good point but just looking at the transfer values of cash in and cash out omits a key factor. Herrera was allowed to leave on a free transfer. In today's overinflated transfer market an evaluation of Herrera at 40 million is very conservative. His loss without replacement reduces the net investment by the club by 40 million which means the net investment in players by the club was only 40 million. At best that possibly enough to keep the same relative strength compared to their major rivals. It certainly doesn't represent an effort to rebuild the club.
Herrera's loss without replacement has significantly weakened the club. With Matic's shelf life expired, that left us to start the season with one proven Premier League quality CMF. The only rebuilding that has taken place this season is Ole developing young players such as McTominay, Fred, Williams, Rashford, James, Greenwood, and Martial.
To state the obvious, the squad this year is painfully thin but it was obviously painfully thin last season. When Herrera went down injured, Ole's initial victory march ended with a thud. We had no one available to replace him. The club's executives not only failed to add CMF replacements, they let Herrera go without replacement. The result today is chaos. One proven CMF.
Herrera's loss without replacement has significantly weakened the club. With Matic's shelf life expired, that left us to start the season with one proven Premier League quality CMF. The only rebuilding that has taken place this season is Ole developing young players such as McTominay, Fred, Williams, Rashford, James, Greenwood, and Martial.
To state the obvious, the squad this year is painfully thin but it was obviously painfully thin last season. When Herrera went down injured, Ole's initial victory march ended with a thud. We had no one available to replace him. The club's executives not only failed to add CMF replacements, they let Herrera go without replacement. The result today is chaos. One proven CMF.
So boys! Give him another season right? 
Still any of these ABU Ole-in trolls about?