Its not all Woodward's fault…(don't hurt me)

Foxbatt · Jan 21, 2020

Woodward is to blame for most of the cockups. Look at Klopp. He knew he got LVG for 3 years to rebuild and then for Giggs to take over. He should never have accepted the story of Giggs after three years. When Klopp became available he should have paid off LVG and got Klopp. Then when Jose became available he sacked LVG and got Jose who is the exact opposite of LVG. Then he did not support Jose and sacked him. He then got Ole as an Interim manager which was a good thing itself. Then he made the stupid mistake of making him the permanent manager. Now he needs to sack him and get a world class manager but he won't because a world class manager is not going to accept shenanigans of Woodward.

Colin Clarke · Jan 21, 2020

UpWithRivers said:
Ok lets get this clear. I’m not a Woodward lover. I’m a Man United lover. I think he deserves a sht load of blame. But the point of this thread is to understand or at least try to understand the reality of the situation. I keep seeing everyone jump on the bandwagon of its all Woodward’s fault. The managers and everyone else seems to get away with the blame. So for once and for all lets see what is the truth.

Blame:

Managers – Moyes was a recommendation of Sir Alex and a sht load of other people. Van Gal, Mourinho and Ole as well. Lots of very top professional people called for these signings. A load of the fans called for these signings. How they are recruited? Does Woodward sit there and just decide on his own over a cuppa in the morning? Or does the recruitment of a manger happen via a consensus of the top people at the club? I would think the latter. All were seen as top managers. Yes even Moyes. All were seen as not right for the job after they were hired and again loads of people at the club and outside called for them to be sacked. Yes in hindsight they were all the wrong managers. But does Woodward take all the blame? Or did he make the right decision at the time with the backing and recommendation of everyone around him?

Signings –

Transfer budget - We have spent a sht load of money. He is not exactly penny pinching. And even if he was. Is this down to Woodward? Again. Does he sit there over a cuppa and decide oh fk this Im only spending 50 mill this window. Or is he given a budget by the owners and the finance people? I would think the latter.

Bad signings – again. Who decides this. Is it Woodward? Or is he given directions by the scouting department and the management team? Were those signings Woodward signings or Moyes/Van Gal/Mourinho/Ole signings? Then you have to ask. Why did they all fail? Is it not the responsibility of the manager and coaching team to improve and make players the best they can be? Not one signing has gone on to be a great player for us. Well De Gea- that’s 1. But even he is acting a bit dodgy these days. Who’s fault is this if not the manager and coaching team?

Not getting transfer targets – Why does every believe everything the papers write about our transfer negotiations? Does anyone actually believe the papers know what’s going on the negotiations? This baffles me the most. Oh Woodward didn’t want to spend 5 extra mill for Maguire and now he’s paying 10 mill extra. Oh the Fernandes deal has flopped because he wont spend an extra 4 mill. This is all bullsht paper talk. No one knows. Maybe they asked 100 for Maguire originally? Maybe they are asking 90 mill for Fernandes? Who knows? Why does everyone believe this? The other thing is every single club negotiates and every single club loses out on players because they wont spend that amount on a player. Look at City who lost out to us loads of times – Fred, Sanchez etc. Look at the Scousers. They refuse to pay ridiculous fees.

The point is even if we sack Woodward tomorrow our problems will not go away. There is a failure right through the core of our club. The main problem is lack of a DOF. But it goes deeper than that. And now is the second part of my sacrilege. Its because of our history. There I said it. We are stuck in the past. All the way through the club we are trying to fit square pegs in round holes. We are trying to recreate our history. This is impossible. Even with a DOF it seems we are trying to find a DOF that fits in with Man Utd and our values and our history. We are finding ex players for managerial roles, coaching and even the DOF. It started with Moyes and even though you can say the likes of Mourinho was not a typical man United manager he was still briefed and expected to play the ‘Man United’ way. He was never truly backed according to his philosophy. So why hire him?

We recruit, live and breath based on our old values or old philosophies our history. With every decision its embedded in our thinking. It cannot work. We need to start again at square one. Yes we cant just throw away our history. Im not saying that. Im saying put it aside for the moment. We need to go out and get the best DOF there is. Not based on if they fit our values or our ethos but based on their philosophy and their values and ideas. Then we work to change our way of running a club to fit that philosophy. Its hard I know. But until that happens we will never change. Klopp is a prime example. He came in and systematically changed the way Liverpool have been run. The way the club thinks. Liverpool did the same as we are doing now. They recruited past legends and managers that would keep in line with their history and after 10 plus years stumbled upon a coach that brought his own ideas and philosophy and changed the way the club is run. Sir Alex did this. Yes he carried on the youth from the busby babes but it would be ridiculous to not see how he changed the club fundamentally at all levels. All great managers do this. Guardiola did this but he wasn’t hampered by Cities past. Now you can say were would we get a coach like that. I say we don’t. We get a DOF like that. Times have changed and this is the way to go. The DOF can then recruit managers on the same principles. The problem is not that we change coaches its that we get coaches with different styles who in turn need to recruit a totally different set of players. If we had Van Gal then Ole and then Poch for example. It wouldn’t matter as much as Moyes/Van Gal/Mourinho then Ole. There is no consistency. In this scenario Ole can still be sacked and we can try Poch or whoever and if they fail then someone with a similar style. Then the set of players required by each manager would already be there with one or two changes.

Ok sorry for the long post. Summary – Woodward is an idiot but so are the rest of them.

I agree with you and your rather excellently written post but I fear you missed one thing that really should change at United and that is the owners. No other club owners in Europe have taken the amount of money they have from the club. Over a billion pounds to keep their malls and their pockets bulging. Liverpool nearly went bust under Hicks and Gillett but have been saved by their new owners who aren't going to take a dividend till 2026. We need owners who don't need United as a cash cow. This would allow the club to improve the ground and the squad and would give a D.O.F a budget to bring the club up to the level we should be at.

SlimDizzle075 · Jan 21, 2020

UpWithRivers said:
Ok lets get this clear. I’m not a Woodward lover. I’m a Man United lover. I think he deserves a sht load of blame. But the point of this thread is to understand or at least try to understand the reality of the situation. I keep seeing everyone jump on the bandwagon of its all Woodward’s fault. The managers and everyone else seems to get away with the blame. So for once and for all lets see what is the truth.

Blame:

Managers – Moyes was a recommendation of Sir Alex and a sht load of other people. Van Gal, Mourinho and Ole as well. Lots of very top professional people called for these signings. A load of the fans called for these signings. How they are recruited? Does Woodward sit there and just decide on his own over a cuppa in the morning? Or does the recruitment of a manger happen via a consensus of the top people at the club? I would think the latter. All were seen as top managers. Yes even Moyes. All were seen as not right for the job after they were hired and again loads of people at the club and outside called for them to be sacked. Yes in hindsight they were all the wrong managers. But does Woodward take all the blame? Or did he make the right decision at the time with the backing and recommendation of everyone around him?

Signings –

Transfer budget - We have spent a sht load of money. He is not exactly penny pinching. And even if he was. Is this down to Woodward? Again. Does he sit there over a cuppa and decide oh fk this Im only spending 50 mill this window. Or is he given a budget by the owners and the finance people? I would think the latter.

Bad signings – again. Who decides this. Is it Woodward? Or is he given directions by the scouting department and the management team? Were those signings Woodward signings or Moyes/Van Gal/Mourinho/Ole signings? Then you have to ask. Why did they all fail? Is it not the responsibility of the manager and coaching team to improve and make players the best they can be? Not one signing has gone on to be a great player for us. Well De Gea- that’s 1. But even he is acting a bit dodgy these days. Who’s fault is this if not the manager and coaching team?

Not getting transfer targets – Why does every believe everything the papers write about our transfer negotiations? Does anyone actually believe the papers know what’s going on the negotiations? This baffles me the most. Oh Woodward didn’t want to spend 5 extra mill for Maguire and now he’s paying 10 mill extra. Oh the Fernandes deal has flopped because he wont spend an extra 4 mill. This is all bullsht paper talk. No one knows. Maybe they asked 100 for Maguire originally? Maybe they are asking 90 mill for Fernandes? Who knows? Why does everyone believe this? The other thing is every single club negotiates and every single club loses out on players because they wont spend that amount on a player. Look at City who lost out to us loads of times – Fred, Sanchez etc. Look at the Scousers. They refuse to pay ridiculous fees.

The point is even if we sack Woodward tomorrow our problems will not go away. There is a failure right through the core of our club. The main problem is lack of a DOF. But it goes deeper than that. And now is the second part of my sacrilege. Its because of our history. There I said it. We are stuck in the past. All the way through the club we are trying to fit square pegs in round holes. We are trying to recreate our history. This is impossible. Even with a DOF it seems we are trying to find a DOF that fits in with Man Utd and our values and our history. We are finding ex players for managerial roles, coaching and even the DOF. It started with Moyes and even though you can say the likes of Mourinho was not a typical man United manager he was still briefed and expected to play the ‘Man United’ way. He was never truly backed according to his philosophy. So why hire him?

We recruit, live and breath based on our old values or old philosophies our history. With every decision its embedded in our thinking. It cannot work. We need to start again at square one. Yes we cant just throw away our history. Im not saying that. Im saying put it aside for the moment. We need to go out and get the best DOF there is. Not based on if they fit our values or our ethos but based on their philosophy and their values and ideas. Then we work to change our way of running a club to fit that philosophy. Its hard I know. But until that happens we will never change. Klopp is a prime example. He came in and systematically changed the way Liverpool have been run. The way the club thinks. Liverpool did the same as we are doing now. They recruited past legends and managers that would keep in line with their history and after 10 plus years stumbled upon a coach that brought his own ideas and philosophy and changed the way the club is run. Sir Alex did this. Yes he carried on the youth from the busby babes but it would be ridiculous to not see how he changed the club fundamentally at all levels. All great managers do this. Guardiola did this but he wasn’t hampered by Cities past. Now you can say were would we get a coach like that. I say we don’t. We get a DOF like that. Times have changed and this is the way to go. The DOF can then recruit managers on the same principles. The problem is not that we change coaches its that we get coaches with different styles who in turn need to recruit a totally different set of players. If we had Van Gal then Ole and then Poch for example. It wouldn’t matter as much as Moyes/Van Gal/Mourinho then Ole. There is no consistency. In this scenario Ole can still be sacked and we can try Poch or whoever and if they fail then someone with a similar style. Then the set of players required by each manager would already be there with one or two changes.

Ok sorry for the long post. Summary – Woodward is an idiot but so are the rest of them.

We aren't talking about Rocket Appliances here. the common denominator in all bad things United is Ed Woodward.

mitchmouse · Jan 21, 2020

I agree... I've asked this before but just exactly what do all the board members do for their money? and yes, I include the two knights of the realm in this...

Sylar · Jan 21, 2020

Not all is his fault. And thats true, cos the managers tht oversaw failure lost their job on the whole.
Players who werent or arent good enough are either being shipped out, or in the process (bar one or two).

However, he has overseen the whole thing post 2013. He has been there watching it all unfold. Hes been the one constant in our downward trend on the pitch yet hes the only one in 6 years who has not been punished for it.

Velvet Revolver · Jan 21, 2020

UpWithRivers said:
Ok lets get this clear. I’m not a Woodward lover. I’m a Man United lover. I think he deserves a sht load of blame. But the point of this thread is to understand or at least try to understand the reality of the situation. I keep seeing everyone jump on the bandwagon of its all Woodward’s fault. The managers and everyone else seems to get away with the blame. So for once and for all lets see what is the truth.

Blame:

Managers – Moyes was a recommendation of Sir Alex and a sht load of other people. Van Gal, Mourinho and Ole as well. Lots of very top professional people called for these signings. A load of the fans called for these signings. How they are recruited? Does Woodward sit there and just decide on his own over a cuppa in the morning? Or does the recruitment of a manger happen via a consensus of the top people at the club? I would think the latter. All were seen as top managers. Yes even Moyes. All were seen as not right for the job after they were hired and again loads of people at the club and outside called for them to be sacked. Yes in hindsight they were all the wrong managers. But does Woodward take all the blame? Or did he make the right decision at the time with the backing and recommendation of everyone around him?

Signings –

Transfer budget - We have spent a sht load of money. He is not exactly penny pinching. And even if he was. Is this down to Woodward? Again. Does he sit there over a cuppa and decide oh fk this Im only spending 50 mill this window. Or is he given a budget by the owners and the finance people? I would think the latter.

Bad signings – again. Who decides this. Is it Woodward? Or is he given directions by the scouting department and the management team? Were those signings Woodward signings or Moyes/Van Gal/Mourinho/Ole signings? Then you have to ask. Why did they all fail? Is it not the responsibility of the manager and coaching team to improve and make players the best they can be? Not one signing has gone on to be a great player for us. Well De Gea- that’s 1. But even he is acting a bit dodgy these days. Who’s fault is this if not the manager and coaching team?

Not getting transfer targets – Why does every believe everything the papers write about our transfer negotiations? Does anyone actually believe the papers know what’s going on the negotiations? This baffles me the most. Oh Woodward didn’t want to spend 5 extra mill for Maguire and now he’s paying 10 mill extra. Oh the Fernandes deal has flopped because he wont spend an extra 4 mill. This is all bullsht paper talk. No one knows. Maybe they asked 100 for Maguire originally? Maybe they are asking 90 mill for Fernandes? Who knows? Why does everyone believe this? The other thing is every single club negotiates and every single club loses out on players because they wont spend that amount on a player. Look at City who lost out to us loads of times – Fred, Sanchez etc. Look at the Scousers. They refuse to pay ridiculous fees.

The point is even if we sack Woodward tomorrow our problems will not go away. There is a failure right through the core of our club. The main problem is lack of a DOF. But it goes deeper than that. And now is the second part of my sacrilege. Its because of our history. There I said it. We are stuck in the past. All the way through the club we are trying to fit square pegs in round holes. We are trying to recreate our history. This is impossible. Even with a DOF it seems we are trying to find a DOF that fits in with Man Utd and our values and our history. We are finding ex players for managerial roles, coaching and even the DOF. It started with Moyes and even though you can say the likes of Mourinho was not a typical man United manager he was still briefed and expected to play the ‘Man United’ way. He was never truly backed according to his philosophy. So why hire him?

We recruit, live and breath based on our old values or old philosophies our history. With every decision its embedded in our thinking. It cannot work. We need to start again at square one. Yes we cant just throw away our history. Im not saying that. Im saying put it aside for the moment. We need to go out and get the best DOF there is. Not based on if they fit our values or our ethos but based on their philosophy and their values and ideas. Then we work to change our way of running a club to fit that philosophy. Its hard I know. But until that happens we will never change. Klopp is a prime example. He came in and systematically changed the way Liverpool have been run. The way the club thinks. Liverpool did the same as we are doing now. They recruited past legends and managers that would keep in line with their history and after 10 plus years stumbled upon a coach that brought his own ideas and philosophy and changed the way the club is run. Sir Alex did this. Yes he carried on the youth from the busby babes but it would be ridiculous to not see how he changed the club fundamentally at all levels. All great managers do this. Guardiola did this but he wasn’t hampered by Cities past. Now you can say were would we get a coach like that. I say we don’t. We get a DOF like that. Times have changed and this is the way to go. The DOF can then recruit managers on the same principles. The problem is not that we change coaches its that we get coaches with different styles who in turn need to recruit a totally different set of players. If we had Van Gal then Ole and then Poch for example. It wouldn’t matter as much as Moyes/Van Gal/Mourinho then Ole. There is no consistency. In this scenario Ole can still be sacked and we can try Poch or whoever and if they fail then someone with a similar style. Then the set of players required by each manager would already be there with one or two changes.

Ok sorry for the long post. Summary – Woodward is an idiot but so are the rest of them.

I think you make some good points, problem is there are a lot of things wrong with the club and it seems like the every decision being made is increasing the intensity of this wrongness. I agree with your statement of us being the past. This is something i noticed a long time ago as well, all the teams around us ( with or without history) have adapted to the new era of footballing and we are still in the spirit of the 'man utd way'.

Saw this video in a caf thread a while ago. I dont think this pressure/expectation/requirement to play the united way is recent, it's been there before SAF and it is continuing after him, Just that during his brilliance as a manager cannot and shall not be replicated ever again.

momo83 · Jan 21, 2020

glazed said:
Managers chosen by Ed.

But remember when Jose wanted Alderweireld from Spurs? Ed said no because he was too old to justify a transfer fee. Ed doesn't usually buy players with bad resale value. Free transfers or young players are preferred. And if the right player isn't available, Ed doesn't buy, even if the squad is weak. And Ed puts in a yes man as manager to take the blame. And Ed doesn't employ a DoF because he doesn't want to be over-ruled on the above.

But Ed is just doing what the Glazers pay him to - maximizing profit. In that sense none of this is his fault.

Jose wanted to sell Martial, probably would have sold Rashford. And replaced them with players aged 28-32. On that count we all agreed with Ed. It wasn’t just about Alderweirald it was also about the other players.

glazed · Jan 21, 2020

momo83 said:
Jose wanted to sell Martial, probably would have sold Rashford. And replaced them with players aged 28-32. On that count we all agreed with Ed. It wasn’t just about Alderweirald it was also about the other players.

Jose wanted peak players so he could win stuff. Ed wants young players so he could sell them to clubs who want peak players. It's that simple.

Lynty · Jan 21, 2020

glazed said:
Jose wanted peak players so he could win stuff. Ed wants young players so he could sell them to clubs who want peak players. It's that simple.

I think you're stretching it a bit there mate.

Smores · Jan 21, 2020

momo83 said:
Jose wanted to sell Martial, probably would have sold Rashford. And replaced them with players aged 28-32. On that count we all agreed with Ed. It wasn’t just about Alderweirald it was also about the other players.

There was never talk of selling Rashford that's just a nonsense. We signed a lot of players younger than 25 under Jose so i don't know how this myth still lives on.

Jonno · Jan 21, 2020

roonster09 said:
IIRC he said he wanted CB, didn't name Maguire.

It was well documented all over the media he wanted Maguire.

momo83 · Jan 21, 2020

Smores said:
There was never talk of selling Rashford that's just a nonsense. We signed a lot of players younger than 25 under Jose so i don't know how this myth still lives on.

Did I say that there was talk? Just going by Mourinho history

momo83 · Jan 21, 2020

glazed said:
Jose wanted peak players so he could win stuff. Ed wants young players so he could sell them to clubs who want peak players. It's that simple.

I disagree. We could win a league the Jose way then be back to square 1 the minute he left. This way is good but we’ve got the most clueless manager in world football fecking it up. That’s Ed’s biggest mistake

devilish · Jan 21, 2020

Woodward was responsible of selecting the managers (after Moyes), he was responsible of negotiating salaries and the fees. Sure he has no clue about football but surely he must have learnt about DOFs at this point of his life. I am not saying that its all his fault. I mean he's not the guy doing tactics, keeping players fit or coaching players but he deserves a lion's share of it.

ravi2 · Jan 21, 2020

Here's what Patrice has to say about Woodward:

Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date

Ed refers to himself as our DOF, according to Evra.

glazed · Jan 21, 2020

Lynty said:
I think you're stretching it a bit there mate.

Name the first team players in the 27+ age group we've paid a significant transfer fee for.
Matic
Errr...

There's probably a couple of others I can't think of, but they sure weren't playing on Sunday. Maguire is the oldest transfer we've done recently at 26, and Ed dickered about him.

glazed · Jan 21, 2020

momo83 said:
I disagree. We could win a league the Jose way then be back to square 1 the minute he left. This way is good but we’ve got the most clueless manager in world football fecking it up. That’s Ed’s biggest mistake

A mixture is probably best. SAF was quite happy to pick up a Van Nistelrooy if the occasion demanded it. Hansen was mostly right about winning with kids tbh

caid · Jan 21, 2020

Pretty much everything at the club is broken in some manner so the person running the show has to take at least some of the blame. For failing to address it if nothing else. I'd say our troubles started before Woodward mind you. Replacing Ronaldo and Tevez with Owen and Valencia is pretty mental. Them two being possibly our 2 best signings in the last 12 or whatever years is damning (I suppose Van Persie was probably better). Fergusons next big team was meant to be built around Jones, Smalling, Evans, Cleverley and Welbeck - maybe he'd have done something with them but it was never going to be one of our stronger teams.
Medical Department has seemed pretty broken for a long time. Van Gaal made a pile of changes to our training pitches and by most accounts wasn't impressed. Most managers who've come here have flagged up something that seems pretty damaged. It seems like theres a fair bit of room for improvement in every area.

Josep Dowling · Jan 21, 2020

OP makes a very good point about being stuck in the past. I’ve said many times we need a manager with the modern style of playing which most of the successful clubs are playing. Generally high press and possession retention.

When Moyes was hired we had never had a foreign manager and I’m sure Ferguson wanted to give it to someone British as they never got opportunities with big English clubs.

And the class of 92 in the media really don’t help, actually all ex United pundits. Constant comparison of the Fergie years and how we need to deal with everything. Football has already moved on from what happened 10 years ago, look how unsuccessful the once great Mourinho is now. And Wenger before him.

Ferguson never had a DOF and I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s had some influence on the club not employing one.

eire-red · Jan 21, 2020

Woodward's biggest flaw is ironically his own inability to acknowledge his own flaws. He's not a football man, why should he be in charge of the football side of the club.

The commercial element has been excellent, but we are first and foremost a football club. The greatest leaders, top CEO's at the world's biggest institutions realise they can't know everything, and usually have a top class decision support structure with people qualified to make decisions and recommendations that are often beyond the comprehension of the CEO.

Woodward does not know everything about football, I would even hazard to guess he may know very little. That's not his fault. It may also not be his fault that previous managers have not been able to coach a corerent tune out of squad of players he has provided them with.

What he is liable for, and should be held accountable for, however, is the lack of direction, structure, and vision at this club. It is his failure to lay the foundations of a robust decision system, with best in class personnel in regards to training, recruitment, succession planning etc. That is his failure and will be his ultimate legacy at this club.

C'est Moi Cantona · Jan 21, 2020

Thing is if Moyes was still here we could make a thread about him saying exactly the same thing, he'd be getting savaged no doubt, but not everything would be his fault, reality is though he was just so obviously out of his depth, and was treated as such by the club very quick.

If there is any logic then the same has to apply to Woodward, and has done for a long time now, it is so clear, but he is still here, and we all know the reasons why, non of which are for the good of the club, yet people still argue his corner.

Denis79 · Jan 21, 2020

Foxbatt said:
Woodward is to blame for most of the cockups. Look at Klopp. He knew he got LVG for 3 years to rebuild and then for Giggs to take over. He should never have accepted the story of Giggs after three years. When Klopp became available he should have paid off LVG and got Klopp. Then when Jose became available he sacked LVG and got Jose who is the exact opposite of LVG. Then he did not support Jose and sacked him. He then got Ole as an Interim manager which was a good thing itself. Then he made the stupid mistake of making him the permanent manager. Now he needs to sack him and get a world class manager but he won't because a world class manager is not going to accept shenanigans of Woodward.

"I had talks with other clubs and they didn't sound like a football club," said the German. "It sounded like marketing, image, you need to sign this, you need to sign that. And I thought 'wow, that's not the game I love.'

"It's all part of football, but it cannot be the number one, two, three, four priority. First of all please try to improve the game we play."

Interview with Klopp where he explains why he didn't accept to join some of the richer clubs. Our Woody sold the job as an 'Adult Disneyland' which says a lot about what an idiot he is.

clarkydaz · Jan 21, 2020

Denis79 said:
"I had talks with other clubs and they didn't sound like a football club," said the German. "It sounded like marketing, image, you need to sign this, you need to sign that. And I thought 'wow, that's not the game I love.'

"It's all part of football, but it cannot be the number one, two, three, four priority. First of all please try to improve the game we play."

Interview with Klopp where he explains why he didn't accept to join some of the richer clubs. Our Woody sold the job as an 'Adult Disneyland' which says a lot about what an idiot he is.

the amount of damage he has done to this club is truly staggering

Ranchero · Jan 21, 2020

Another Woodward thread. Carry on. Admins will act or not indiscriminately and without consistency.

passing-wind · Jan 21, 2020

christinaa said:
It's all Woodward's fault.

Mourinho was not backed by him and Mou won the Europa League and managed 81 points with this same team and he was still sacked.

The same Mourinho who signed 11 new players for almost 400 million ?

RUCK4444 · Jan 21, 2020

No one thousand times no.

In any business the buck stops with somebody at the top table. That’s Ed.

He has self appointed himself as the DOF. A feckin banker with no football knowledge appoints himself that position within arguably the biggest club on earth. His ego must be incredible.

On the above alone he must take responsibility for every wrongly appointed manager and every penny we’ve wasted on substandard players.

Not to mention the swapping from one manager to the next with absolutely no plan AT ALL in place to retain a style or ethos for the club to build on.

Just simply hired who was available and threw money at it! Any of us on the caf could have done that, and if I had done so I would take full responsibility.

He’s championed his own position by MASSIVELY underestimating what it requires and he must take full responsibility for what that brings.

He’s been the one mainstay, the self-appointed one, throughout these years of decline.
He’s almost single handedly brought this juggernaut of a club to its knees!

RUCK4444 · Jan 21, 2020

Denis79 said:
"I had talks with other clubs and they didn't sound like a football club," said the German. "It sounded like marketing, image, you need to sign this, you need to sign that. And I thought 'wow, that's not the game I love.'

"It's all part of football, but it cannot be the number one, two, three, four priority. First of all please try to improve the game we play."

Interview with Klopp where he explains why he didn't accept to join some of the richer clubs. Our Woody sold the job as an 'Adult Disneyland' which says a lot about what an idiot he is.

Imagine being responsible for feckin up the interview and losing the best coach in world football, not only failing to acquire his services but worse still basically handing him onto our biggest rivals.

On that basis alone I would hang my head in a shit shower of shame and never ever step foot in Manchester ever again. I’d have an apology to the United fans etched into my headstone.

He’s the worst thing that ever happened to us, probably more damaging than losing SAF.

the chameleon · Jan 21, 2020

RUCK4444 said:
Imagine being responsible for feckin up the interview and losing the best coach in world football, not only failing to acquire his services but worse still basically handing him onto our biggest rivals.

On that basis alone I would hang my head in a shit shower of shame and never ever step foot in Manchester ever again. I’d have an apology to the United fans etched into my headstone.

He’s the worst thing that ever happened to us, probably more damaging than losing SAF.

He’s a shameless scumbag. His skin is thicker than his skull. Hope he gets an overwhelming amount of abuse at stadiums and on the streets. He’s taken the joy away from the fans, while he earns 3 million a year to feck things up.

Adnan · Jan 22, 2020

Falcow said:
His biggest mistake was making a hash of the attempt to hire Klopp. It could be all sunshine now if that had gone well.

Fergie and Gill heading off into the sunset at the same time was a disaster and not Woodwards fault.

Van Gaal name dropped Di Maria in a press conference and said he needed a winger like Di Maria. Blaming Woodward for the signing is utter bollocks.

Mourinho was the biggest waste of space we hired post SAF. He was backed in his short stay at the club to the hilt and won two second rate trophies. His tenure did more damage to us in the long-term than any other manager post SAF. I would've fired the cnut after we limped to 2nd in that one season.

TRUERED89 · Jan 22, 2020

ravi2 said:
Here's what Patrice has to say about Woodward:
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
Ed refers to himself as our DOF, according to Evra.

This is actually unbelievable, what a cnut Woody truly is! No wonder he can’t make regular signings! Or if he does manage it, it takes an age.

Bobcat · Jan 22, 2020

Regarding bad transfers, no that is not all his fault. Managers pick their targets (i assume), but there have been several reports of Woody meddling in tranfers business and i am pretty sure i have read he was the architect behind the Sanchez signing but i cant confirm that

What is his fault though, is how we have ended up with the 2nd highest wage bill in the league with such a relatively poor squad and as an extension, investment in both players and infrastructure has taken a nose dive the last two years. The way we handle player contracts is utterly baffling and it shows there is a complete lack of long term vision at the top

Take Lindgard for example. A player who everyone (and rightly so) deemed not good enough was awarded a new 4-year deal in 2017 worth about 100k/week. Whether or not he was part of Joses plans back then no one knows, but the thing is that his contract with the club was near to expire and if we did not resign him then and there, he could have gone on a free transfer elsewhere. Same with De Gea who now sits at a pretty 350,000k/week because we waited until his contract was nearly expired and was desperate to resign him so he could demand whatever the feck he wanted. Sanchez earning about 500,000k/week with all addons and we still pay about 200,00k weekly for him is just frightening.

At the same time we lost a key player in Herrera to PSG on a free transfer because ED suddenly wanted to play hard ball and we did not meet his demands(who were a bit high though)

There is a lot of talk of how Ed has made the club money though lucrative sponsorship deals, but i would argue our brand is big enough to attract sponsors anyway. What is certain though is that he has lost the club a hell of a lot of money though handing out golden deals to loads of players over the years

Falcow · Jan 22, 2020

Adnan said:
Van Gaal name dropped Di Maria in a press conference and said he needed a winger like Di Maria. Blaming Woodward for the signing is utter bollocks.

Mourinho was the biggest waste of space we hired post SAF. He was backed in his short stay at the club to the hilt and won two second rate trophies. His tenure did more damage to us in the long-term than any other manager post SAF. I would've fired the cnut after we limped to 2nd in that one season.

Say what now.
Think you may have replied to the wrong post.

johanovic · Jan 22, 2020

Offside said:
2009 – United win the league championship for the 3rd season in a row. They reach back to back Champions League finals. They are the World Champions and have the current Ballon D’or winner and the PFA POTY in their side.

It’s from this point the decline starts.

Signings in the years previous to that Summer is similar to what Liverpool have been doing recently but on an even bigger scale. It’s one hit after hit. This is how such a great team was built:

Berbatov
Anderson
Nani
Hargreaves
Tevez
Carrick
Vidic
Evra
Park
Van Der Sar
Rooney
Smith
C.Ronaldo
Saha

Following on from that Summer, the signings become more hit and miss:

Owen
Valencia
Obertan
Smalling
Chicharito
Bebe
Young
Jones
De Gea
Kagawa
Van Persie

We then find ourselves in 2013 winning the league once more. However, we had lost quality in those 4 years since 2009 and as you can see from the list above, it was not adequately replaced. RVP was the main reason we won the league that year. The squad is fairly aged. We have failed to reach the ¼ finals of the Champions League in 2 seasons and it needs refreshing.

It can therefore be said that a small amount of blame is on Fergie’s hands. The quality of the recruitment had declined between 2009 and 2013, in comparison to between 2003 and 2009.

However, the squad were still champions and needed some refreshing over the Summer. Players like Rooney probably did need moving on in all honesty, yet Moyes kept him and didn’t break up the squad at all probably because he didn’t have the balls and thought he would do well enough with a championship winning team. Wrong. He then coaches the team poorly to a disastrous 7th place finish – he is also to blame.

Nevertheless, he still realised that we needed new players in that Summer of 2013, yet we didn’t get any as Woodward completely failed to do so. He was shambolic in that 2013 window and should have gone there and then. In the following years, a change of manager from a mug like Moyes to some of the most highly rated in history, has still not changed the awful recruitment. Van Gaal and Mouiniho were too defensive and maybe a little past their best to bring United back. They also share some of the blame. However, the recruitment from 2013 to 2020 has been beyond diabolical and there is only 1 man who has been the constant through all of it. His signings look like:

Fellaini
Mata
Di Maria
Shaw
Herrera
Rojo
Blind
Falcao
Martial
Schneiderlin
Depay
Darmian
Bastian
Romero
Pogba
Mkhitaryan
Ibra
Lukaku
Matic
Lindelof
Sanchez
Fred
Dalot

Compared to that top list it is utter dross. So whilst Fergie’s latter hit and miss recruitment meant the squad wasn’t in the best state, and then Moyes’ lack of bottle and crap management meant that squad was even more rotten a year later and we were out the top 4 for the first time, Van Gaal and Jose’s crap football meant we didn’t get anywhere - it is still Woodward who has been in charge of recruitment through all those post-Fergie managers and who is responsible for that horror list above. Yes, Van Gaal and Jose will have targeted some of crap, failed to coach them properly and share a lot of the blame, but how do you then excuse windows such as 2014 where we left it all too late, 2017 where we didn’t buy anywhere near enough, 2018 where we didn’t buy anywhere near enough and 2019 which was absolutely laughably bad? That's on Woodward.

All these managers hold a small stake in the shit-show that Ed Woodward is entirely responsible for. They are all just footnotes as far as I’m concerned. None of them were good managers but the squad Ed has assembled and the inability of him to conclude deals, to buy in the positions our managers want him to and his preference to buy players to sell shirts rather than actual footballing reasoning is 80% of the reason we are in the mess we are in today. I also believe he has brought in players that previous managers didn't even want, pretending he has a clue about football.

Finally, when you consider he is the one who brought in these shite managers, it's 100% on him and he needs to accept that. After 7 years of crap with him and the common denominator at what point does he accept that it might be on him?

Agree with your assessment of the signings we have made in the last 7 years and surely Woodward must own a part of that BUT no player is signed by Man Utd unless the manager approves them. Regarding DOF it´s not a model that has worked everywhere and in fact a lot of managers have fallen out with DOF. Woodward signed the checks so to speak but the signings made by Moyes,Van Gaal and Mourinho hardly speaks volume for their judgement in players does it? I liked the 3 signings OGS made last summer.

I also like that he got rid of Sanchez,Darmian,Fellaini,Lukaku,Smalling,Young,Herrera and Valencia with more probably on the way out in the near future like Rojo,Jones,Matic,Lingard and Mata. None of those gone or proably going were going to have a big future impact at United.

If you look at the last 7 years it´s obvious that despite all the money spent the best "signings" have been homegrown in Rashford and McTominay + Greenwood and Willams coming through now. We also have a keeper in Henderson that I belive will go on the be United´s N1 and England N1.
We also have Garner,Levitt,Gomes(going?),Chong(going?) and a little further down the line we have Laird,Ramazani,Mengi,Mejbri plus a few others. Why am I talking about the kids? Because now United must make sure that the right signings are made while making sure to give those youngsters a chance. We have a young team now and seeing Greenwood scoring or Willams going up and down the left flank is a big part of what United are about. What other club has produced players like Rashford,McTominay,Greenwood,Williams and co recently in the PL? None. IF we manage to make smart signings in the next windows while making sure to keep giving these kids a chance I think we are not to far away from getting on track again.

Amerifan · Jan 22, 2020

Castia said:
Jose spent hundreds of millions here including breaking a world record fee on Pogba, he was 100% backed this myth needs to stop.

During Jose’s spell we were one of the top spending clubs in Europe. The board refused to buy Maguire after already spending £85m on Bailey and Lindelof in the previous 12 months which for me at that time was reasonable baring in mind we didn’t know Bailey would be forever injured, he looked class in his first season.

No. Just no. Moyes, LVG, and Jose were backed by the owners but not by the club. Money spent is not necessarily money spent on the manager‘s first choice players. It’s clear that with few exceptions the club were unable to land the players on the manager‘s short lists. The players they did land, like Matic, they paid far too much for. The manager does not set the transfer fee, that’s on the negotiators.

freeurmind · Jan 22, 2020

Yes Woodward is actually a football mastermind being held back by all these poor managers he's appointed and all these average players he's signed.

Castia · Jan 22, 2020

Amerifan said:
No. Just no. Moyes, LVG, and Jose were backed by the owners but not by the club. Money spent is not necessarily money spent on the manager‘s first choice players. It’s clear that with few exceptions the club were unable to land the players on the manager‘s short lists. The players they did land, like Matic, they paid far too much for. The manager does not set the transfer fee, that’s on the negotiators.

You mean the Matic Jose has managed multiple times and wanted to leave Chelsea purely to work with Jose again at United but you’re trying to claim he wasn’t a managers pick?

Give me a break, Moyes bought Fellaini, LvG bought Blind and Memphis 2 players he managed for Holland, the signings are those wanted by the manager that’s not on Ed.

Infact he/the club probably got tired of spunking hundreds of millions on mediocre talent they tightened the purse strings.

Amerifan · Jan 22, 2020

Castia said:
You mean the Matic Jose has managed multiple times and wanted to leave Chelsea purely to work with Jose again at United but you’re trying to claim he wasn’t a managers pick?

Give me a break, Moyes bought Fellaini, LvG bought Blind and Memphis 2 players he managed for Holland, the signings are those wanted by the manager that’s not on Ed.

Infact he/the club probably got tired of spunking hundreds of millions on mediocre talent they tightened the purse strings.

Of course Matic was Jose’s pick, that’s why I listed him. He was clearly worth bringing in in the short run, too, but the massive transfer fee was money that could have been better spent elsewhere. The manager doesn’t set fees. You seem to be confusing spending money with backing the manager, they are not the same thing.

johanovic · Jan 22, 2020

Amerifan said:
No. Just no. Moyes, LVG, and Jose were backed by the owners but not by the club. Money spent is not necessarily money spent on the manager‘s first choice players. It’s clear that with few exceptions the club were unable to land the players on the manager‘s short lists. The players they did land, like Matic, they paid far too much for. The manager does not set the transfer fee, that’s on the negotiators.

Do you honestly believe that Mourinho and Van Gaal were not responsible for the signings made while they were managers? Matic was a favourite of Mourinho and to this day the United manager has the final say on which player to sign a player or not.
Backed by the owners but not by the club? How is that possible? How can a club that signs players for 900 million pounds be seen not supporting the manager?
United have a shortlist of players for every postion and neither you or I know if those players were first choice but do you really belive that any manager gets what he wants all the time? United are competing with Barca,Madrid,Bayern,Liverpool plus the 2 fake clubs PSG and Man City that have shady deal written all over them. So when a player is available do you really think it´s easy in this enviroment to get players. Just look at the squads at City and PSG have assembled and the dodgy financing around those clubs.

Amerifan · Jan 22, 2020

johanovic said:
Do you honestly believe that Mourinho and Van Gaal were not responsible for the signings made while they were managers? Matic was a favourite of Mourinho and to this day the United manager has the final say on which player to sign a player or not.
Backed by the owners but not by the club? How is that possible? How can a club that signs players for 900 million pounds be seen not supporting the manager?
United have a shortlist of players for every postion and neither you or I know if those players were first choice but do you really belive that any manager gets what he wants all the time? United are competing with Barca,Madrid,Bayern,Liverpool plus the 2 fake clubs PSG and Man City that have shady deal written all over them. So when a player is available do you really think it´s easy in this enviroment to get players. Just look at the squads at City and PSG have assembled and the dodgy financing around those clubs.

Its easy to spend money poorly, lots of clubs do it irrespective of the manager. We do know from comments in the press by the managers and the club that our club was unable to land the players on the manager‘s shortlists. They had to look beyond. The club also bought players the managers didn’t necessarily want, which is why so many big signings rarely played. You’re thinking money spent is backing. It isn’t. It’s just money spent.

Hoof the ball · Jan 22, 2020

When you hire Moyes, followed by a possession oriented coach, followed by a pragmatist, little wonder the squad is so imbalanced. That's an issue from the top down. You have to decide how you want to approach the game and then get manager's in who build on that. Period.

Its not all Woodward's fault…(don't hurt me)

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