The logic of "no top manager will get the job so instead of getting other decent managers let's stick on with a manager doing a crap job" is just hilariously bad and doesn't deserve anything bar sarcastic comments. This logic would have never been said if the current manager isn't a club legend.
The “Ole In” Brigade
- Thread starter Lentwood
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
Of course there are some here who care about Ole staying as a manager more than what the club is doing, to the point of slaughtering everything else to make Ole blameless. For them it's OK to slaughter players, board, CEO, medical stuff and everyone else but criticizing Ole means you aren't a true fan but a glory hunter. The irony is so so strong with these people.
And I have many, including regular match goers that wanted him off last season.
Of course there are multiple opinions but surely 14 months are well enough even for the most patient ones to see what’s going on?
Going through the last few pages, it felt like the new line of defence is that Solskjaer is basically doing us a favour by staying here and managing a horror squad that no good manager would dare touch... Maybe he deserves a raise for all his efforts instead of a sacking. Can you imagine being paid 7.5 million annually and being given 200 million to spend just to have so many people jumping on you because you've had the worst results in over 30 years? Unheard of! Absolutely disgusting. Don't you know we don't have enough quality in the squad? It doesn't matter that he had a 6-month free ride and he failed to grasp that Pogba was the only creative midfielder we have in the squad. Don't you know that Lampard has more experienced players to work with? The cheating bastard... he should have let Willian, Pedro and Giroud leave, promote 18 year-olds and have a threadbare squad like ours to even things out.
He's been tempted back by a huge salary. He'll stick there 2 years and be off (that's not what United need as a club right now).
Of course he's a legendary manager, but doubtful he'd get much of a tune out the squad we have got. Fergie apparently thought Ancelotti would be a good replacement in 2013 but wasn't to be. Sometimes it's just the timing isn't right.
Ancelotti wouldn't be a long term option - I strongly think that United need to just stick with Ole (unless things dramatically turn for the worse) and see how some continutity and stability works - after 7 years of starting from scratch every 2-3 years.
You wouldn't swap:
Matic, Lingard, Fred, Martial, Pereira and Lindeloff
For:
Kante, Son, Willian, Kane, Lucas Moura and Vertonghen
I think it must be you who's kidding...
Imagine getting wound up when someone has an opposing view on a football forum haha
Fully agree. Hopefully, Woody has already realized that we are not going anywhere forward under Ole and contacted Poch.
You know ole is one of the most highly paid manager in the league. Dont you?
Any United manager would be.
Convenient you avoid the actually points of my post though...
Nice moving the goal posts in making your argument better. This is the Chelski side you first mentioned that had such a strong core they didn't have to depend on youngsters.
Pedro, Willian, Kante, Jorginho, Giroud, Azpilicuetta, Alonso, Barkley.
This is the Spurs side who you said would walk into our team.
Son, Kane, Moura, Ali, Sissoko, Dier, Vertonghen, Alderweireld, Winks, Lamela, Wanyama.
You then change your plan of attack and pick the best players from each team as a reason why they're better than us. In Oles own words. "the groundsman must have moved the goal 2 inches to the right." you my friend have taken them out of the stadium.
I'm kind of sceptical that more than a handful of those people exist. What I do think is that some people are a bit blinded by nostalgia and hope: Man United legend who seemingly gets the club + pledge to buy youthful players who also get the club = replica of Guardiola at Barca or something similar. There's nothing really wrong with that. I got swept up in it all at this time last year; I even created a post moaning about the all the pre-emptive doom-mongering coming from those predicting Ole would ultimately fail (they were proven right in the end, but I don't regret the post.) After the end of Mourinho's reign and the shit served up by Moyes and LVG, it was the first time in years that I actually looked forward to watching United play.
I was, however, a bit sceptical about giving Ole the contract before the season ended, and sadly I feel my fears have been confirmed. I just feel he's nowhere near the standard required for us to challenge at the top, particularly given how hamstrung he is by our useless board (Ed and co.)
At this point, it's probably worth giving him until the end of the season, as I can't see anyone really stepping in right now (except maybe Pochettino,) but I would hope that planning is under way to find his more qualified replacement by the summer (I have zero optimism in that actually happening - I guess I'm guilty now of pre-emptive doom-mongering.)
He has to be, we’ve got players on £300k + a week. Imagine how undermining it would be to pay the boss £80k a week when Jones is on that?
which? You mean this?
That's very disrespectful towards Carlo Ancelotti, if he's tempted by money alone he won't accept working for Tottenham, and Carlo Ancelotti is known to be a loyal manager, who seldom moves around unless he got sacked.
To claim he can't get tune out of the squad we have is a total disrespect towards him. So he can't get us to working and Ole can?
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I honestly don't know what I think...I can come up with positives and negatives. I wouldn't be averse to Poch - he did wonders at Southampton, but with Spurs he promised much but ultimately failed. Ole is an enigma. You can't write off the fact that he gave us the best three months we've had since Fergie left. And how is itthat we've beaten all the top sides bar Liverpool, but we took points off them, and are the only team to have done so. Is it down to Ole that we don't seem to be able to beat the lower sides? Is it fair to expect Ole to succeed where Moyes, LVG, and Jose failed - I still like Jose, but those last few months with him in charge were just dire.
So what would be the excuses made up for ole if the likes of everton, wolves and sheffield United finish ahead of us this season because I can see it happening at this rate with the form of the other teams compared to ours.
Ole has clearly delivered results that have disappointed reasonable expectations. No one here expected us to win major trophies this, except the EL trophy (we still have a great shot, at least as of this post), but we did expect to dispatch bottom half clubs on a more regular basis.
But in all fairness to Ole, he took over a completely broken squad from Jose, who has somehow managed to escape criticism from the British media for what really was a shambolic job. I had high hoes for us under Jose but I could not have been more wrong about the wisdom of bringing him in.
Finish the season out with Ole, but if Allegri is available -- and he's managed to learn English -- the club would be wise to hire him. We're close enough now that, with the addition of four new players and with a proven winner like Allegri (there are others), we can compete for the PL trophy even as soon as next season. Four players is not a small number but I'm assuming Pogba will be gone and for me Martial just isn't going to cut it.
But in all fairness to Ole, he took over a completely broken squad from Jose, who has somehow managed to escape criticism from the British media for what really was a shambolic job. I had high hoes for us under Jose but I could not have been more wrong about the wisdom of bringing him in.
Finish the season out with Ole, but if Allegri is available -- and he's managed to learn English -- the club would be wise to hire him. We're close enough now that, with the addition of four new players and with a proven winner like Allegri (there are others), we can compete for the PL trophy even as soon as next season. Four players is not a small number but I'm assuming Pogba will be gone and for me Martial just isn't going to cut it.
That 3 months was obtained with pretty much 100% Jose team.
I can just imagine Oles team talk in that period. "just go out and enjoy yourself lads."
The very second we had something to play for (top 4) is when it all went to shit. All well and good winning when there's no pressure on but Ole forgot that pressure is part of the job and basically him and the squad have been bottling it ever since.
It seems to me that many of the arguments pro and con are very general. Like, the squad is decent.. No it's not. OGS is out of his depth. He has no system. Yes he does. And so on.
Let me try some specificity. The problem with the squad is a gaping hole in central midfield. OGS was handed a team at the start of the season that had one proven Premier League CM. And that player, Pogba, has been out injured for most of the season. Under OGS management we ended up with two CMs, Fred and McT. Then McT sustained a long term injury.
I suggest the squad may well be decent with the exception of the huge hole in CM. Well, the strikers aren't scoring. The old adage is a striker is only as good as the service he gets. Without a CM there is little to no service and it certainly becomes extremely difficult to break down the defensive teams. We won't know to what extent they can score until they compete with a decent CM.
The defense is fraught with errors. But, without a decent CM shielding them, they are exposed rather than protected. That exaggerates their errors. We may find that with a three or four man decent CM the current defensive unit is quite solid.
We can only tell if they get a chance to play with a solid CM. Imagine a four man CM of Bruno, Pogba, Fred and McT. That team would dominate central midfield hopefully to the point of breaking down the park the bus teams,. But would it also produce the needed goals? It would be valuable to find out .The defense would have a solid shield. Looks like a very decent squad to me but the only way to tell is to experience it.
At the very least we would have a better idea of what OGS can or cannot do. We would have a better idea of where the squad needs strengthening. Suppose the team ends up looking quite good. Naturally there would be areas that could use improvement but there would still be a huge gaping hole in lack of depth. There are no adequate substitutes at least in CM. What it needs is depth as the injuries to the team's three most important players demonstrate today.
BTW it may be that Matic is not as bad as he looks. Possibly, the shortage of other CMs exposes his lack of pace. Last year the loss of Herrera brought the OGS miracle run to a halt. There were no CM replacements for Herrera. It was at that time when Matic seemed to become a liability.
Let me try some specificity. The problem with the squad is a gaping hole in central midfield. OGS was handed a team at the start of the season that had one proven Premier League CM. And that player, Pogba, has been out injured for most of the season. Under OGS management we ended up with two CMs, Fred and McT. Then McT sustained a long term injury.
I suggest the squad may well be decent with the exception of the huge hole in CM. Well, the strikers aren't scoring. The old adage is a striker is only as good as the service he gets. Without a CM there is little to no service and it certainly becomes extremely difficult to break down the defensive teams. We won't know to what extent they can score until they compete with a decent CM.
The defense is fraught with errors. But, without a decent CM shielding them, they are exposed rather than protected. That exaggerates their errors. We may find that with a three or four man decent CM the current defensive unit is quite solid.
We can only tell if they get a chance to play with a solid CM. Imagine a four man CM of Bruno, Pogba, Fred and McT. That team would dominate central midfield hopefully to the point of breaking down the park the bus teams,. But would it also produce the needed goals? It would be valuable to find out .The defense would have a solid shield. Looks like a very decent squad to me but the only way to tell is to experience it.
At the very least we would have a better idea of what OGS can or cannot do. We would have a better idea of where the squad needs strengthening. Suppose the team ends up looking quite good. Naturally there would be areas that could use improvement but there would still be a huge gaping hole in lack of depth. There are no adequate substitutes at least in CM. What it needs is depth as the injuries to the team's three most important players demonstrate today.
BTW it may be that Matic is not as bad as he looks. Possibly, the shortage of other CMs exposes his lack of pace. Last year the loss of Herrera brought the OGS miracle run to a halt. There were no CM replacements for Herrera. It was at that time when Matic seemed to become a liability.
Why not get Sheringham as the Manager? After all he scored the equaliser and created the goal Ole scored. So he has a bigger hand than Ole in winning the CL.
''but if Allegri is available -- and he's managed to learn English -- the club would be wise to hire him''.
How is it a wise move ? u enjoy watching his style of boring defensive play ?, might as well bring back van gaal.
How is it a wise move ? u enjoy watching his style of boring defensive play ?, might as well bring back van gaal.
The problem with Carlo is that he's the anti Mourinho. He will sit there, he will take the hits, he will work with what he's got until he either says enough is enough or he gets sacked. Berlusconi has removed the backbone out of the guy, which is a shame really as he's a top top manager.
Which explains why he had attracted the attention of most despicable owners/CEO (Roman, Berlusconi, Real and De Laurentiis). The guy will soak the hits.
There are so many threads on Ole to discuss, debate and argue exact same thing!
I'll say it again for the umpteenth time to whoever, do we or do we not have a better team than Sheffield United, Everton, Wolves, Burnley, Newcastle, Southampton, Palace etc
Sheffield, Everton, Wolves, Everton - Currently above us in the league table
Burnley - 1 point below
Arsenal, Newcastle, Southampton - 4 points below
Nobody is expecting a jump to City, Liverpool levels without some time and investment, nobody should be advocating for a manager of Manchester United to be given more time when he only has us sitting 11 points from the relegation zone, and has us behind teams like Sheffield United who only came up from the Championship last season, I don't care who he is, i'm not having it, we having holes in this squad and its not the best squad for sure, but it's better than pissing Newcastle's, Sheffields etc.
Spot on. I would however add Martial to the Rashford and Pogba camp. Just look how hard it was for Rashford to do anything up top when he was playing as a lone striker without Martial or Pogba in the team. He was basically getting the same criticism as Martial is getting now.
Yep that's fair, but he does need to do a bit more himself to get chances to score. Too often he's happy being a playmaker with the ball to feet, rather than being there for a tap in.
I know that. The same players who had just played abysmally against City and Liverpool.
The "never hear anyone in Manchester wanting Ole gone.. just the online lot" kind of ruined the whole post though.
Good post. Lot of talk about our squad in comparison with the likes of Wolves and Sheff Utd. We quite obviously have a lot more talent than those clubs, but there are also undeniable issues that hold this team back.
I'm often dismayed by the inconsistency of the criticism on here. On the one hand we have people (rightly) stating that the creative options we've had available to us for most of the season - ie Lingard and Pereira - are not nearly good enough for this level, and yet we will still be astounded by a performance in which we struggle to create chances and put it all down to coaching. To add to that, widespread criticism of our 'counter attacking' approach in certain fixtures when the main purpose of that tactic is largely designed to make us more dangerous when we lack creative ability in the team. We actually turn an attempt to overcome our shortcomings into a negative.
Meet Julian Nagelsmann, the manager your club wants to hire
Nagelsmann looks to the Premier League for a dose of inspiration. As a manager consumed with finding the edges, he is a keen observer of how those at the top of the game succeed in sourcing and implementing advantages.
“I watch a lot of Liverpool and Manchester City,” he admits. “Last season, City had great flexibility, so many ways to open up the game and interesting positions in ball possession. It’s always fascinating to watch Pep Guardiola teams.
“Liverpool have developed so well, especially in possession and having variety. In the first two seasons under Jurgen Klopp, it was more about counter-attack and creating attacking moments. That’s the same process we are going through now at Leipzig, expanding to not only rely on pressing and counters.
“If you want to be a good manager, you have to watch Liverpool games. What they are doing is incredible. It’s the performances that you can learn from, but more importantly, is what you can take away from their mentality.
“It’s totally crazy when you’re so successful, you’re 22 points ahead of the next team in the league, but you do more and more and more to win games. That is a big message to give to players, especially the young ones.
“They should learn from Liverpool to always be hungry, to be better. It doesn’t matter if you’re nearly the champion, you still win and win and win and win.”
Nagelsmann looks to the Premier League for a dose of inspiration. As a manager consumed with finding the edges, he is a keen observer of how those at the top of the game succeed in sourcing and implementing advantages.
“I watch a lot of Liverpool and Manchester City,” he admits. “Last season, City had great flexibility, so many ways to open up the game and interesting positions in ball possession. It’s always fascinating to watch Pep Guardiola teams.
“Liverpool have developed so well, especially in possession and having variety. In the first two seasons under Jurgen Klopp, it was more about counter-attack and creating attacking moments. That’s the same process we are going through now at Leipzig, expanding to not only rely on pressing and counters.
“If you want to be a good manager, you have to watch Liverpool games. What they are doing is incredible. It’s the performances that you can learn from, but more importantly, is what you can take away from their mentality.
“It’s totally crazy when you’re so successful, you’re 22 points ahead of the next team in the league, but you do more and more and more to win games. That is a big message to give to players, especially the young ones.
“They should learn from Liverpool to always be hungry, to be better. It doesn’t matter if you’re nearly the champion, you still win and win and win and win.”
Here's something to think about,
For all our malaise, it will be better if it's handled by someone more competent.
Player not good enough?
Squad imbalanced?
Deadwood?
Why leave it to ole to rebuild the squad if he's not good enough to utilize the final product. The next manager arent guaranteed to like ole's team (and he doesnt work on peanuts). We might be close to spending another 400m and will due another rebuild once ole's done with his vanity project.
His purchase:
James
Awb
Maguire
Isnt actually title challenging material. At best they're top 4 material. James is bottom table player now that he's found out
For all our malaise, it will be better if it's handled by someone more competent.
Player not good enough?
Squad imbalanced?
Deadwood?
Why leave it to ole to rebuild the squad if he's not good enough to utilize the final product. The next manager arent guaranteed to like ole's team (and he doesnt work on peanuts). We might be close to spending another 400m and will due another rebuild once ole's done with his vanity project.
His purchase:
James
Awb
Maguire
Isnt actually title challenging material. At best they're top 4 material. James is bottom table player now that he's found out
I've not changed the goal posts. I listen all the players from both Chelsea and Spurs that clearly highlight that they have stronger squads than United.
You ridiculed my post and said I must be kidding. So I listed a mix of players from both squads that walk into United's team anyday.
Make your mind up, so Chelsea and Spurs have better squads than Ole is coping with???
My point is that NOBODY is going to do much with the current squad at United. No point sacking Ole to let anothet manager fail with this sqaud. We should let Ole build on what he's trying to do, a long term plan - rather than rip it up and start again, with no guarantee that would achieve anything.
You can't say my experience in real life Manchester are't true. The vitriol and mass hysteria that seems normal on Redcafe does not reflect the mood on the ground here.
What exactly will a new manager most likely Pochettino rip up?
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The long term rebuilding plans that are clearly in place. Getting rid of all toxic shit in the squad, working on the cohesive transfer policy that seems to be in place.
A rebuild takes time, people just need some patience.
Ripping up the plans and starting again every 2 years has hardly worked out well for United since Fergie left.
As for Poch, a guy that won nothing with a far better bunch of players that he'd be working with a United would not guarantee any improvement.
Whoever manages this United would need time and patience to make meaningful changes to United's long term outlook.