Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

devilish said:

Well he was between January and September with Cardiff were he was an absolute train wreck and he's been with us since December 2018. Under his management United suffered the worst start since 1989 and we're currently 12 points away mighty Leicester which is just 2 points less than the gap that separate us from West Ham on the other side. Let that sink in

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Leicester are having a fantastic season (why do you keep typing really weird things) it does your argument no service you just come across as a whiny repetitive child. It's completely sunk in (again weird) we are still competing for a top four spot without our only recognised world class outfield payer in a major rebuilding job.

The squad is improving and is very young (as is the manager) we just had a fantastic result away from home against our toughest challengers for the spot Ole has been set for this season. All in all it shaping up for a great end to the season and encouraging signs for the future.

He hits his target of course he should keep his job and be given the tools to target higher next season.

DFreshKing said:

Leicester are having a fantastic season (why do you keep typing really weird things) it does your argument no service you just come across as a whiny repetitive child. It's completely sunk in (again weird) we are still competing for a top four spot without our only recognised world class outfield payer in a major rebuilding job.

The squad is improving and is very young (as is the manager) we just had a fantastic result away from home against our toughest challengers for the spot Ole has been set for this season. All in all it shaping up for a great end to the season and encouraging signs for the future.

He hits his target of course he should keep his job and be given the tools to target higher next season.

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Leicester is a decent but nothing out of this world, their manager is solid but far from WC and as a club they are far smaller then we are. Yet, Leicester are 12 points away from us. That's pretty much the same gap there is between us and relegation contenders West Ham. Meanwhile Shitty are 13 points away while Liverpool are 38 points away. If you take the EPL table as a guideline we are with the likes of Sheffield United, Everton and Wolves rather then the teams on top.

If we manage to qualify to the CL then I am pretty sure that Ole will be kept. However till the time of writing there's absolutely nothing that suggest that he should be kept. Under him United has had the worst start since 1989 with Leicester (not Shitty, not Liverpool, Leicester) doing way better then we are doing

Looking at the poll, more than 70% want him gone by end of this season.

Fortunately, this show that the majority of the supporters are not just supporting club legend blindly.

More importantly, Man Utd need a positive modern attacking coach. We have enough of negative tactics manager in Moyes, LVG, Jose and Ole.

Please bring back the fun and excitement of watching Man Utd.

DFreshKing said:

Because Poch was sacked while in 14th place with CL finalist squad. If that is not failure then you should all be fully behind Ole with where he is in the league.

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What point are you alluding to? Are you suggesting that based on your nitpicked fact that Ole has better credentials than Poch?

SteveW said:

What are you on about? He's removing unsuitable players and bringing in better ones. Our net spend is low since he's been here and his 4 signings all look really good.

The previous 3 managers spent nearly a billion on players who mostly flopped here.

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Ok so if you're praising net spend, praise Woodward and Judge? Ole isn't negotiating player transfers, he certainly wanted more players last summer that we didn't get. He's not working with a limited budget or a transfer ban, we've spend £200m+ on four players since summer.

My point is neither bashing or praising Ole it's that the 'rebuild' is just a buzzword, I don't see how it's based in reality. We haven't radically changed our style of football, we're still setting transfer records and he's trying to build a team in his image (whatever that ends up looking like) which is the same as all managers who have come before him. Just because his idea is essentially a throw back to the better United years doesn't make it different to the attempted team building of Jose, LVG or even David death-by-one-thousand-crosses Moyes.

One positive for sure so far has been our signings under him, obviously it's early days yet and they've all been in and out of form but I'd agree they look promising. However, where we are in the table and considering the team we have (even with injuries) is not acceptable and we are running out of time to find some consistency. Our run now is tough - Watford, Everton, City, Spurs, Sheffield - let's hope we can 'click' and find a bit of form.

There was about one minute of joy in that Moyes season when Evra smashed it in against Bayern. Ole has provided so many more moments that we'll remember for a long time, we've also looked better under him in the big games and moments. Just seems unneeded to pretend Moyes was better, even if stats might point to Ole being worse (they did at one point, not sure if they still do), I know whose reign I'll look back on with more fondness in years to come.

the chameleon said:

What point are you alluding to? Are you suggesting that based on your nitpicked fact that Ole has better credentials than Poch?

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Nitpicked he was sacked .

he certainly has better credentials this season doing better with a worse squad in the same league. You really want to give Pooh a pass on this season but Throw Ole under the bus for the very same season while even doing better?

The more relevant question is why do you want to replace Ole with some one who was doing worse than him in the same league at the same time with a better squad?

DFreshKing said:

Nitpicked he was sacked .

he certainly has better credentials this season doing better with a worse squad in the same league. You really want to give Pooh a pass on this season but Throw Ole under the bus for the very same season while even doing better?

The more relevant question is why do you want to replace Ole with some one who was doing worse than him in the same league at the same time with a better squad?

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Good post.

devilish said:

Well he was between January and September with Cardiff were he was an absolute train wreck and he's been with us since December 2018. Under his management United suffered the worst start since 1989 and we're currently 12 points away mighty Leicester which is just 2 points less than the gap that separate us from West Ham on the other side. Let that sink in

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We’re 3 points off fourth. Let that sink in.

Now I realise this is hypothetical but fourth is quite possible from here. If we get fourth no-one with any sense will give a shite about Ole’s all-time records for dismal half seasons here, there or anywhere. 4th will be great.

But yes, if we end this season closer to relegation than to Leicester, that will be shocking and, at that point, we’ll all have to have a sit down and let it sink in. Let’s not blow our brains out yet though.

OrcaFat said:

We’re 3 points off fourth. Let that sink in.

Now I realise this is hypothetical but fourth is quite possible from here. If we get fourth no-one with any sense will give a shite about Ole’s all-time records for dismal half seasons here, there or anywhere. 4th will be great.

But yes, if we end this season closer to relegation than to Leicester, that will be shocking and, at that point, we’ll all have to have a sit down and let it sink in. Let’s not blow our brains out yet though.

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That's fair enough

Mainoldo said:

How did Dan James get on?

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Dan James was borderline dogshit, as he has been for quite some time. Now, judging by your somewhat out of the blue question, I'm going to go out on a massive limb and guess that you've seen my nationality and assumed that I'd stick up for my fellow countryman, because I'm one of those 'nasty anti-Martial anti-foreign United fans' when the total opposite is true.

Martial was fecking shite and had he not scored a goal, would be getting 2/10 ratings from everyone on here. Dan James' looking like turd has no bearing on Martial doing the same. Dan James, for the record, now looks like exactly what he is - a Championship winger who was signed as a squad player but has somehow found himself in a starting role despite not being good enough.

There's a Martial FC for a reason - a hoarde of United fans who will defend him no matter what.

I have yet to see a Dan James FC on this forum and would be gobsmacked if one appeared.

Alabaster Codify7 said:

Dan James was borderline dogshit, as he has been for quite some time. Now, judging by your somewhat out of the blue question, I'm going to go out on a massive limb and guess that you've seen my nationality and assumed that I'd stick up for my fellow countryman, because I'm one of those 'nasty anti-Martial anti-foreign United fans' when the total opposite is true.

Martial was fecking shite and had he not scored a goal, would be getting 2/10 ratings from everyone on here. Dan James' looking like turd has no bearing on Martial doing the same. Dan James, for the record, now looks like exactly what he is - a Championship winger who was signed as a squad player but has somehow found himself in a starting role despite not being good enough.

There's a Martial FC for a reason - a hoarde of United fans who will defend him no matter what.

I have yet to see a Dan James FC on this forum and would be gobsmacked if one appeared.

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Wish I did so much research.. but didn’t even know you was Welsh.

There’s a Martial FC because some people appreciate talent and want to see it developed for the benefit of the team. I find it odd when people think fans motives for players is designed for any reason other than a better United. If Martial was to leave I guarantee you 80% of his fan club couldn’t care what he goes on to be.

My issue is you seem to have watched the game and criticised Martial like he was getting chances like the Batman and making a hash of it. If any striker was useless yesterday it wasn’t Martial and I pointed out his partner in crime because he was x times as bad but yet we want to talk about Martial.

Even though I know the poll has been locked for 12 days now I instinctively look to see if the voting has changed, please tell me i'm not the only one, please

Class of 63 said:

Even though I know the poll has been locked for 12 days now I instinctively look to see if the voting has changed, please tell me i'm not the only one, please

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Same here, scroll to the top of the page every time.

I take it back. This Haaland yout is pure RVN. Shame Ole couldn’t get this one over the line.

LisburnWhite said:

Same here, scroll to the top of the page every time.

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Probably depends which way I enter the thread, but i'm usually taken straight to it, if i'm not then I scroll up

DFreshKing said:

Nitpicked he was sacked .

he certainly has better credentials this season doing better with a worse squad in the same league. You really want to give Pooh a pass on this season but Throw Ole under the bus for the very same season while even doing better?

The more relevant question is why do you want to replace Ole with some one who was doing worse than him in the same league at the same time with a better squad?

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We don't have a worse squad. What nonsense are you talking? Tottenham are in a worse position than us. We even spent £145m in the summer. Yes, we've had an injury spell. But some of it is down to Ole's amateur in-game management style like not subbing anyone till the 80th minute or playing an injured Rashford in an FA Cup tie when we have Liverpool in the next game.

Poch is not perfect, but he's certainly done better than Ole apart from this season. It would be lazy conclusion to not pick Poch over Ole based on the fact he could fired. Ole would have also been fired at any other club. Better still, he would never have been offered this job at another top club. This squad we have is definitely on paper good enough to be top 4. The myth that we need a rebuild is rubbish. I will tell you that Tottenham, Leicester, Wolves, Sheffield United and Chelsea don't have better squads than ours. Based on out league position and points we are currently massively underachieving.

What do you think is the end game with Ole? Do you think he will win us a title? Will he eventually figure it out and win the Champions League? This is where Manchester United should be. Not patiently waiting for an inexperienced and one-dimensional manager to finally figure it out. Last time he was given a bit of time, he nearly got Cardiff relegated to League 1.

the chameleon said:

What do you think is the end game with Ole? Do you think he will win us a title? Will he eventually figure it out and win the Champions League? This is where Manchester United should be. Not patiently waiting for an inexperienced and one-dimensional manager to finally figure it out. Last time he was given a bit of time, he nearly got Cardiff relegated to League 1.

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Well, he's on course to get us top 4 and Champions League football, FYI.

redcafe_reader said:

Well, he's on course to get us top 4 and Champions League football, FYI.

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How did you come such a conclusion? How could you be on course for top 4 when you’re not in the top 4?

He’s on course to finish below 60 points.

On your logic every top 8 team is on course for top 4 and champions league.

redcafe_reader said:

Well, he's on course to get us top 4 and Champions League football, FYI.

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A few bad results and we could be looking at not even playing Europa League also....

the chameleon said:

How did you come such a conclusion? How could you be on course for top 4 when you’re not in the top 4?

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Because we just beat the 4th placed team? That was a potential 6 pointer.

Class of 63 said:

Even though I know the poll has been locked for 12 days now I instinctively look to see if the voting has changed, please tell me i'm not the only one, please

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Well, everyone’s got a hobby I guess

InspiRED said:

Well, everyone’s got a hobby I guess

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You obviously have.

Class of 63 said:

Even though I know the poll has been locked for 12 days now I instinctively look to see if the voting has changed, please tell me i'm not the only one, please

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It alaways does really. A couple of good performances and people vote for keeping Ole. A couple of bad ones, they want him out. It's like 2 side are constantly are tugging on the rope.

We need to have it reopened after match day 38. Till then, it's going to be circklejerk

the chameleon said:

How did you come such a conclusion? How could you be on course for top 4 when you’re not in the top 4?

He’s on course to finish below 60 points.

On your logic every top 8 team is on course for top 4 and champions league.

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Top five is champions League as it stands. City are banned remember.

Ole is one of us. He knows what it means to be a United suporter. Why should we fire him and get some one else in who have no idea about the United mythos?

the chameleon said:

How did you come such a conclusion? How could you be on course for top 4 when you’re not in the top 4?

He’s on course to finish below 60 points.

On your logic every top 8 team is on course for top 4 and champions league.

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You obviously think the "logic" of which team is on course to attend the Champions League depends on the current table position only, which didn't make much sense I am afraid.

My logic is based on our current position, our form, other contenders' form, City's ban, the trajectory strength of our squad (when McTom return, Bruno gelled more, possible Pogba return, Rashford return).

We will see who's correct at the end of the season.

Our form - one consecutive, lucky, win,

DFreshKing said:

Nitpicked he was sacked .

he certainly has better credentials this season doing better with a worse squad in the same league. You really want to give Pooh a pass on this season but Throw Ole under the bus for the very same season while even doing better?

The more relevant question is why do you want to replace Ole with some one who was doing worse than him in the same league at the same time with a better squad?

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What? So we are only using this season to judge Poch? Other past achievements are off the table in this debate? Yes, I agree with you that this season is Poch's lowest point in his managerial career, but because of that we should disregard everything else he has done for Southampton and Spurs? A 2nd place finish and a runners up CL spot with a Spurs side not impressive enough for you? What is Ole's greatest achievement to date? A Norwegian league trophy. Hardly impressive IMO. People keep banging on about Poch not winning any cups and that his record against top 4 clubs are horrible. Did you even notice Ole's record against the small clubs and the league in general, never mind just the top 4. I have absolutely no idea why people can wholeheartedly without a single doubt in their mind claim that Ole is a better manager than Poch.

Whatever stick you are using to beat Poch with, transforms into a giant barb wired club for Ole.

Class of 63 said:

18/02/19 - Chelsea 0 Manchester United 2 - FA Cup
30/10/19 - Chelsea 1 Manchester United 2 - League Cup
17/02/20 - Chelsea 0 Manchester United 2 - Premier League

Shocking sequence of results against our Fulham Broadway bitches, Ole out!!

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That's great. Hope he adds to his CV, "3x STAMFORD BRIDGE CUP WINNER".

Micky Targaryen said:

That's great. Hope he adds to his CV, "3x STAMFORD BRIDGE CUP WINNER".

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redcafe_reader said:

You obviously think the "logic" of which team is on course to attend the Champions League depends on the current table position only, which didn't make much sense I am afraid.

My logic is based on our current position, our form, other contenders' form, City's ban, the trajectory strength of our squad (when McTom return, Bruno gelled more, possible Pogba return, Rashford return).

We will see who's correct at the end of the season.

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Bold: Completely false. I mean, even thinking about this, it's wrong. Looking at actual data, it's still wrong.

Last 5 games, we've averaged 1.4 points a game. Interestingly, this is the same for the last 10 games. Extrapolating this out, we would finish on 54.8 points, by whichever form barometer you want, 5 or 10 games. So, let's call it 55 points.

Chelsea, currently 4th, are in the worst form. Mainly due to the swing with us on Monday, if that had gone the other way, we have the worst form. Last 5, they're getting a point a game. Last 10, 1.2 points per game. If extrapolating from 5 games, they end with 53 points. If extrapolating from 10, they finish with 55.4, so, 55. Same as us.

Spurs and Sheff United have both been earning 2 points per game over the last 5. That has them finishing on 64 and 63 respectively. They're earning 1.7 points per game over the last 10. That has them on 60.4 and 59.4 respectively. So, on form, both comfortably ahead of us.

We are 7th. 2 teams still finish above us, that has us, at best, on form, in 6th. Which, even if the City ban stands, is still outside the CL spots.

redcafe_reader said:

You obviously think the "logic" of which team is on course to attend the Champions League depends on the current table position only, which didn't make much sense I am afraid.

My logic is based on our current position, our form, other contenders' form, City's ban, the trajectory strength of our squad (when McTom return, Bruno gelled more, possible Pogba return, Rashford return).

We will see who's correct at the end of the season.

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You’re never on course until the ink is written. It’s idiotic to think like that. We’ve had too many false dawns to make conclusion that implies we’re on course for a certain scenario.

Runaway Sue said:

Ole is one of us. He knows what it means to be a United suporter. Why should we fire him and get some one else in who have no idea about the United mythos?

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If that’s what we’re after we should go into the United museum and hire the guy who does the tours. Personally I’d settle for someone who can coach the team a little bit better.

dirkey said:

Bold: Completely false. I mean, even thinking about this, it's wrong. Looking at actual data, it's still wrong.

Last 5 games, we've averaged 1.4 points a game. Interestingly, this is the same for the last 10 games. Extrapolating this out, we would finish on 54.8 points, by whichever form barometer you want, 5 or 10 games. So, let's call it 55 points.

Chelsea, currently 4th, are in the worst form. Mainly due to the swing with us on Monday, if that had gone the other way, we have the worst form. Last 5, they're getting a point a game. Last 10, 1.2 points per game. If extrapolating from 5 games, they end with 53 points. If extrapolating from 10, they finish with 55.4, so, 55. Same as us.

Spurs and Sheff United have both been earning 2 points per game over the last 5. That has them finishing on 64 and 63 respectively. They're earning 1.7 points per game over the last 10. That has them on 60.4 and 59.4 respectively. So, on form, both comfortably ahead of us.

We are 7th. 2 teams still finish above us, that has us, at best, on form, in 6th. Which, even if the City ban stands, is still outside the CL spots.

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So, Chelsea has a worse form than us. You can't use "if that had gone the other way" because it didn't.
According to your data, Spur and Sheff United have better form than us in the last 5, but if you read what I said, form is just 1 of the reasons. I think Sheff United won't have enough squad strength to finish above us at the end of the season. Spur can, but with McTom return and Bruno getting better, and potential Pogba return I still valuate our chances higher.

So, besides Liverpool and Leicester, among 3 teams fight for 2 slots, I think we will be able to play in the Champions League next season. I don't really want to say more in order to not jinxing us.

I don't know how can you nitpick 1 point and say it's wrong. It's only wrong if I said based on form only, so either you don't argue in good faith or have trouble reading. It's like I said "SAF is the best manager in history based on longevity, title won, champions league won, style" and you said "Completely false! Ancelotti has more champions league won".

As I said, let's see who's right at the end of the season, shall we?

the chameleon said:

You’re never on course until the ink is written. It’s idiotic to think like that. We’ve had too many false dawns to make conclusion that implies we’re on course for a certain scenario.

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What does that even mean? So you can only on course on Champions League football only if you are mathematically safe for Champions League football? Based on that logic Liverpool is not on course on winning the title because "the ink is not written"?

It's not like only we have false dawn, the fact that we are 3 points of top 4 and 2 points of Champions League position mean that this is pretty much the same among all other teams, beside Liverpool and Leicester. I don't really want to say more in order to not jinxing us, let's wait until the end of the season and see who's right. There is no way Ole is sacked before that anyway.

the chameleon said:

You’re never on course until the ink is written. It’s idiotic to think like that. We’ve had too many false dawns to make conclusion that implies we’re on course for a certain scenario.

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If the ink is written, then it's a conclusion, and not on course for anything. So I don't even know what you are arguing about, seems like the notion that we're doing better upsets you for some reason. Nothing else to moan about?

Please can we stop with the comparisons with SAF in the 80s, Klopp etc. This is getting too tiresome. I get it that some people are enamored by Solksjaer, but this daily post after post of clutching at straws, ludicrous pointless arguments is just unnecessary.

redcafe_reader said:

So, Chelsea has a worse form than us. You can't use "if that had gone the other way" because it didn't.
According to your data, Spur and Sheff United have better form than us in the last 5, but if you read what I said, form is just 1 of the reasons. I think Sheff United won't have enough squad strength to finish above us at the end of the season. Spur can, but with McTom return and Bruno getting better, and potential Pogba return I still valuate our chances higher.

So, besides Liverpool and Leicester, among 3 teams fight for 2 slots, I think we will be able to play in the Champions League next season. I don't really want to say more in order to not jinxing us.

I don't know how can you nitpick 1 point and say it's wrong. It's only wrong if I said based on form only, so either you don't argue in good faith or have trouble reading. It's like I said "SAF is the best manager in history based on longevity, title won, champions league won, style" and you said "Completely false! Ancelotti has more champions league won".

As I said, let's see who's right at the end of the season, shall we?

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Yes. I realise form was just one of the reasons. That's why I bolded it, and mentioned it as part of my reply. And indeed, Chelsea have worse form than us. But, if that form stays the same as it is, (which obviously is very unlikely) we'd finish either level, or 1 point ahead. So, that's a coin flip. So to say we're on course to finish in the CL spots based on form, is completely wrong. Because, we're not.

Spurs can ... but with our players coming back, we can do better? Do you not give them the same benefit, given that they're missing arguably the league's best striker?

I agree, Sheff Utd are unlikely to finish above us. But our squad "strength" will be tested by * hopefully * a number of Europa League games, we can't discount that.

Your overall point, I don't agree with it. We're simply not on course to finish in the top 4. Hopefully we'll get there, and I do give us a shot. But, players coming back and form isn't enough. I'm not nitpicking. I'm just pointing out that our form definitely doesn't have us making top 4. I'm sorry, but that's the only factual thing you pointed to. We literally have data on form to extrapolate.

Squad strength .. who knows? But what I love is that you talk about us getting players back, but not other teams.

Absolutely, let's see at the end of the season. Obviously I hope we get there! I just think, using form as even part of your argument is completely wrong, because our form is not good enough.

dirkey said:

Yes. I realise form was just one of the reasons. That's why I bolded it, and mentioned it as part of my reply. And indeed, Chelsea have worse form than us. But, if that form stays the same as it is, (which obviously is very unlikely) we'd finish either level, or 1 point ahead. So, that's a coin flip. So to say we're on course to finish in the CL spots based on form, is completely wrong. Because, we're not.

Spurs can ... but with our players coming back, we can do better? Do you not give them the same benefit, given that they're missing arguably the league's best striker?

I agree, Sheff Utd are unlikely to finish above us. But our squad "strength" will be tested by * hopefully * a number of Europa League games, we can't discount that.

Your overall point, I don't agree with it. We're simply not on course to finish in the top 4. Hopefully we'll get there, and I do give us a shot. But, players coming back and form isn't enough. I'm not nitpicking. I'm just pointing out that our form definitely doesn't have us making top 4. I'm sorry, but that's the only factual thing you pointed to. We literally have data on form to extrapolate.

Squad strength .. who knows? But what I love is that you talk about us getting players back, but not other teams.

Absolutely, let's see at the end of the season. Obviously I hope we get there! I just think, using form as even part of your argument is completely wrong, because our form is not good enough.

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I said form AND several other reasons, that means even if we have worse form than Spur and Sheff Utd at the moment, combined with other reasons I still think we can finish on Champions League football. How can I make it easier for you to understand?

"our form definitely doesn't have us making top 4" - top 4 and Champions League football didn't get decided by form ONLY. I am not sure if you understand yet but whatever, I am done explaining such a simple point anyway. See my example about "It's like I said 'SAF is the best manager in history based on longevity, title won, champions league won, style" and you said "Completely false! Ancelotti has more champions league won'" and try to tell me it's not what you are doing.

"Squad strength .. who knows? But what I love is that you talk about us getting players back, but not other teams." - Besides Spur with Kane, who has players come back as important as Rashford, McTom, and potential Pogba? who has a new player (that can play better and better when he gelled with the squad) as important as Bruno? Of course, we can't measure it, but that doesn't mean it's wrong. Let's see at the end of the season then.