why was De Gea not dropped by Ole for woeful form that resulted in the club missing a UCL place - @passing-wind

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passing-wind

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Change the thread title to why was De Gea not dropped by Ole for woeful form that resulted in the club missing a UCL place. Why despite having a very good number 2, is Romero not given game time. How does it effect Henderson ? To see that De Gea despite being average since the world cup 24 months ago is still favoured by the manager / club, to what extent would he be given a chance to succeed here.
 

Jibbs

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Have been saying this for a while, he should have been sold and not awarded a new contract. There is still time I believe, even a 40 m offer won't be bad, because with each passing year, his value will decline and we will be paying the some of the highest wages in world football to an error prone goalkeeper.
 

Jibbs

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This just has a worrying similarity to when Moyes gave Rooney that mega deal new contract in 2014.

I can see the argument of giving De Gea the new contract and I'm not saying De Gea is definitely in decline but I felt it was weird to reward a player such a huge contract after how incredibly bad he was last season.
This. Like Rooney should have been sold in 2012, ideally De Gea should have been sold in 2018.
 

Kerry Donaghy

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I agree with the 1st part, it is well worth looking at - it may even back-fire but even so, its happening with DDG so we've nothing to lose by going with one of the other GK's. Its unlikely though, and not because the management cant see what the fans see.

On the 2nd part, lets not turn it into yet another Ole bashing thread, he's bound to try and deflect, it would be ridiculous to throw him under the bus
You will struggle to find someone who wants Ole to succeed more than I do, I absolutely love the guy and I was delighted when he got the job.

However, the De Gea situation is getting beyond a joke now.

I understand backing your players and standing by them after individual errors, I get it, but not when you've been trying it for nearly a year and it's not working.

Last season, he gave the whole "he's still the best keeper in the world" speech and the howlers continued to happen, to the point that it was a huge reason why we didn't finish in the champions league places.

If he lets that exact same scenario happen again this year, then he's clearly incapable of learning from his mistakes, and, in my opinion, he has to go.

On top of that, it's the knock on effect, surely other players in the squad are taking note here and thinking "OK, well now I know I can make as many errors as I want and Ole will still pick me".
You honestly think any other 'supposedly' top level club would let this happen?
 

Green_Red

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Why did we give De Gea a new contract? When did you start watching United?
 

Kerry Donaghy

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It is stopping shots. Everything else is irrelevant if the goalie can’t stop shots. When choosing between two goalies with equal shot stopping, you can consider things like playing from the back and such. Just as a striker who can defend is nice, provided they score a lot of goals.
Please tell me you're joking, we're talking about the Premier league here not a pub league, there is much more to both attacking and defending at this level.
You will struggle to find any player that's considered world class these days that doesn't have a good all round game.

If you want to be considered as one of, or, the best then there's not a chance you should be as poor as De Gea is at crucial aspects of playing his position.

For example, nobody could deny that Romelu Lukaku is a world class finisher but we got rid of him because he apparently didn't fit into how Ole wanted to play.

So now, we're trying to play a high press style and push up the pitch a bit more and we have a goalkeeper who is rooted to his line moreso than any other keeper I've ever seen, but fans think it's worth it because he's a good shot stopper (highly debatable also now anyway).

How is this any different?

Do you think we should go back to playing Mourinhio style Park the bus football then just to accommodate our goalkeeper?
 

Jibbs

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Please tell me you're joking, we're talking about the Premier league here not a pub league, there is much more to both attacking and defending at this level.
You will struggle to find any player that's considered world class these days that doesn't have a good all round game.

If you want to be considered as one of, or, the best then there's not a chance you should be as poor as De Gea is at crucial aspects of playing his position.

For example, nobody could deny that Romelu Lukaku is a world class finisher but we got rid of him because he apparently didn't fit into how Ole wanted to play.

So now, we're trying to play a high press style and push up the pitch a bit more and we have a goalkeeper who is rooted to his line moreso than any other keeper I've ever seen, but fans think it's worth it because he's a good shot stopper (highly debatable also now anyway).

How is this any different?

Do you think we should go back to playing Mourinhio style Park the bus football then just to accommodate our goalkeeper?
Great comment.
 

M Bison

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You will struggle to find someone who wants Ole to succeed more than I do, I absolutely love the guy and I was delighted when he got the job.

However, the De Gea situation is getting beyond a joke now.

I understand backing your players and standing by them after individual errors, I get it, but not when you've been trying it for nearly a year and it's not working.

Last season, he gave the whole "he's still the best keeper in the world" speech and the howlers continued to happen, to the point that it was a huge reason why we didn't finish in the champions league places.

If he lets that exact same scenario happen again this year, then he's clearly incapable of learning from his mistakes, and, in my opinion, he has to go.

On top of that, it's the knock on effect, surely other players in the squad are taking note here and thinking "OK, well now I know I can make as many errors as I want and Ole will still pick me".
You honestly think any other 'supposedly' top level club would let this happen?

You're missing the point of my post.

What i'm saying is:

1. Lets not turn this into an Ole bashing thread; and

2. Ole would be wrong to publicly criticise DDG - that was Jose's approach and it was wrong.
 

Kerry Donaghy

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You're missing the point of my post.

What i'm saying is:

1. Lets not turn this into an Ole bashing thread; and

2. Ole would be wrong to publicly criticise DDG - that was Jose's approach and it was wrong.
To be fair, I'm not just Ole bashing for the sake of it, I'm discussing issues on the pitch, and given that Ole is the manager, it's literally impossible to do that without mentioning him, it's relative is what I'm basically saying.

As I've already said, I agree with not publicly bashing your players as a general rule but it's a bit extreme to come out and still call a player "the best in the world" no matter how many errors they make.
If they're making that many errors then they're not the best in the world, fact, so he is basically talking jibberish, what purpose does that serve?

It's pretty basic stuff if you think about it, he's tried publicly backing him many many times now and it hasn't worked so surely it's common sense to try a different approach?

You're making out as if it's an exact science that you never publicly criticise your players and then they'll bounce back, it's not, every situation is different, so why not try something different?

Perfectly parallel and relevant example is how Chris Wilder called Dean Henderson out after his mistake early in the season against Liverpool.
He simply stated the truth that if Henderson wants to play at the top level then he can't afford to make blunders like he did in that game, and guess what, he's been outstanding since that game.

So, it can work.
 

TRUERED89

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FFS. Sure, whatever.
Just because a lot of them don't lead to goals doesn't mean it isn't true. countless times this season he's kicked it straight to an opponent in such a dangerous position from a goal kick, and one of our players had to save his ass over and over again throughout 28 league games.
 

billybee99

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Look, first nobody told anyone how to use the forum, so I suggest you re-read what I wrote really slowly.

There's a thin line between people who are criticizing De Gea's gaff and calling for his head, and people who appreciate that despite going down 1-0 so early, DDG kept us in the game with other top saves until we drew and pressed for a winner. This is a fan;s forum, not glory-hunters who know nothing about the values of the club and are only here to wank when we get a good result, so of course I would be pissed when I see posters just talking shit about probably the only world-class player we have just for the fun of it.

People here think the club was built in 2 seasons. If you don't understand the rebuild process we are currently going through, go support another team. In rebuilds there are tons of ups and downs, from senior players to youth players, but why bring in all the whining over a world-class goalkeeper for a mistake that would not have happened on any other given day, without at least providing proof that he is past it? He made a mistake but 2 goal-preventing saves that kept us in the game.

In any case, the good part is that no matter how many glory-hunters here nag about him, the manager sees his class and the players so all your opinions here wouldn't matter much anyway.
And I quote: "so start appreciating the players we have or feck off from the forum." (Fredo - Mar 2, 2020)
 

Eckers99

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Because people in charge are not knee jerk fans with a short term memory?
I too am absolutely sure that the very people who've been criticised for getting most contract decisions wrong since 2013 know much more than the people on this forum who've spent that time calling them out.

It's almost safer to assume that the club will get these decisions wrong because, well, evidence.
 

-Supreme-

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Have been saying this for a while, he should have been sold and not awarded a new contract. There is still time I believe, even a 40 m offer won't be bad, because with each passing year, his value will decline and we will be paying the some of the highest wages in world football to an error prone goalkeeper.
£40m would be an excellent deal for us.

Realistically I don't think we will get anything above £25m
 

M Bison

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To be fair, I'm not just Ole bashing for the sake of it, I'm discussing issues on the pitch, and given that Ole is the manager, it's literally impossible to do that without mentioning him, it's relative is what I'm basically saying.

As I've already said, I agree with not publicly bashing your players as a general rule but it's a bit extreme to come out and still call a player "the best in the world" no matter how many errors they make.
If they're making that many errors then they're not the best in the world, fact, so he is basically talking jibberish, what purpose does that serve?

It's pretty basic stuff if you think about it, he's tried publicly backing him many many times now and it hasn't worked so surely it's common sense to try a different approach?

You're making out as if it's an exact science that you never publicly criticise your players and then they'll bounce back, it's not, every situation is different, so why not try something different?

Perfectly parallel and relevant example is how Chris Wilder called Dean Henderson out after his mistake early in the season against Liverpool.
He simply stated the truth that if Henderson wants to play at the top level then he can't afford to make blunders like he did in that game, and guess what, he's been outstanding since that game.

So, it can work.
There’s no right or wrong answer in my view, it comes down to personal preference/management style.

My preference would always be to present a United front and deal with issues, such as poor performance, behind closed doors. I didn’t like the way Jose publicly criticised players, I felt it was counter productive.
 

Kerry Donaghy

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There’s no right or wrong answer in my view, it comes down to personal preference/management style.

My preference would always be to present a United front and deal with issues, such as poor performance, behind closed doors. I didn’t like the way Jose publicly criticised players, I felt it was counter productive.
Yes, as I said, so would mine, but if you've done it 5/6/7... times with the same player and they're still making the same errors then it's clearly not the way to go so it would be madness/incompetence to keep doing it.
 

TRUERED89

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For example, nobody could deny that Romelu Lukaku is a world class finisher
Woah I must of missed that part :eek:.

He really isn’t, he’s just a flat track bully (good against shite teams, Casper the ghost against everyone else).

PS abysmal first touch, and no link up/hold up ability..
 

Kerry Donaghy

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Woah I must of missed that part :eek:.

He really isn’t, he’s just a flat track bully (good against shite teams, Casper the ghost against everyone else).

PS abysmal first touch, and no link up/hold up ability..
You've clearly missed the whole point of that post.
 

TRUERED89

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You've clearly missed the whole point of that post.
Yea I probably did, but Romelu being a world class finisher just took centre stage, leading to the rest of the post not even registering with me. By the way I agree with all your past and present De Gea comments, he’s an expensive liability.
 

-Supreme-

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Yes, as I said, so would mine, but if you've done it 5/6/7... times with the same player and they're still making the same errors then it's clearly not the way to go so it would be madness/incompetence to keep doing it.
I don't understand how people fail to see that Ole can be very ruthless IF he has players that are capable of replacing the underperforming ones.

Lingard, Pereira and Young are the prime examples.
 

IronTulip

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I feel people are bit blinkered when it comes to De Gea. He made a good save when CL was played through, nothing exceptional or outstanding with it. As far as top keepers go, you expect most of them to make that save. During LvG and Jose's first year De Gea was inhuman and made about 2-3 ridiculous saves each game it
First year during LVG's reign was the fax machine episode and subsequent contract renewal? He was very poor for the first few months. Tactics were very defensive and yet we seemed to concede on every counter. 2-3 ridiculous saves is pushing it as usually the opposition only had 2-3 chances during LVG's time.

He's had some great games where he's saved us points, but it's been balanced by some howlers too, which are unfortunately getting more frequent.

He currently doesn't have the same focus which got him our player of the season in years past. Was another ridiculous decision by the club to have a 100m pound contract liability.
 

ivaldo

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Just because a lot of them don't lead to goals doesn't mean it isn't true. countless times this season he's kicked it straight to an opponent in such a dangerous position from a goal kick, and one of our players had to save his ass over and over again throughout 28 league games.
We must have an incredible defense then if we have this mess between the sticks giving chances away like their flyers.
 

Kerry Donaghy

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Yea I probably did, but Romelu being a world class finisher just took centre stage, leading to the rest of the post not even registering with me. By the way I agree with all your past and present De Gea comments, he’s an expensive liability.
No worries, I was just talking about his actual finishing, I personally think it is top class, but he lacks in other areas of the game, as you said, and this means he never really gets considered as world class.

Whereas De Gea is a top class shot stopper (apparently anyway, I genuinely think even that's a bit overhyped) but is bang average (being kind) at other elements of goalkeeping, yet is still widely considered world class.

As I've said many times, I just don't get it.
 

FattyFooty

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Apart from a stupid mistake which is nothing to do with his actual ability as a shot stopper, which is what he's known for, he had good game today and us from a certain defeat at the end.
No. That is wrong.

David's job is to prevent goals. Not give them away.

He is supposed to make saves, that is why he is a goal keeper and not an striker.
 

sparky

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He does lose concentration when transfer rumours start or at least that is how it seems. Jose dropped him for that very reason, Ole didn't. It just seems he is not very strong of mind, could be wrong and there could be other reasons. He always has a bad kick in a game. That being said he has been amazing for us and people need to remember that with out him we would have lost a lot more.
 

FattyFooty

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He does lose concentration when transfer rumours start or at least that is how it seems. Jose dropped him for that very reason, Ole didn't. It just seems he is not very strong of mind, could be wrong and there could be other reasons. He always has a bad kick in a game. That being said he has been amazing for us and people need to remember that with out him we would have lost a lot more.
Yeah. We shall never forget. He's been brilliant.

But life goes on, so do football clubs. If you want to progress, you can't live on past glory.

David has not been himself since the WC imo. That's almost 2 years.
 

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He was (and still is) one of the best goal keepers in the world. Had we let him go there would have been countless fans moaning that we let our only world class player leave, another example of the club's decline. I think he should be dropped for a few games, Romero is more than capable of filling in, and see if that helps him regain his form. Ridiculous to consider selling the only player that's been a consistent top class performer since Fergie because he's had a few wobbles (let's not forget he's still made some brilliant saves too).
 

TrueRed79

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Hasn't been the same player since that awful WC that he had with Spain. For whatever reason he's simply not at the same standard for a few years now. That constitutes a decline IMO. Goalkeepers roles have changed in the last few years, mainly distribution. DDG distribution has always been poor but it's got even worse. He needs competition and if he's not up to it, we need to cut our losses with him.
 

horsechoker

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Maybe getting rid of De Gea would've been the right thing to do but would we have replaced him with an equally good or better keeper?

We've had some issues getting deals over the line and I think we could well have ended up with Romero as #1
 

esmufc07

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Change the thread title to why was De Gea not dropped by Ole for woeful form that resulted in the club missing a UCL place. Why despite having a very good number 2, is Romero not given game time. How does it effect Henderson ? To see that De Gea despite being average since the world cup 24 months ago is still favoured by the manager / club, to what extent would he be given a chance to succeed here.
Done
 

OleTheGreat

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He was in decline before he signed it, not sure why we offered him so much money when there are plenty of better keepers out there.

Living on past glories, much like the club itself.
Wow! I cannot believe you guys think De Gea is in decline. What constitutes a decline? Number of clean sheets? Goal difference? Number of mistakes? If you take into account the number of saves he's got in the past couple of seasons when people think he's in decline, you would be surprised because the man has won us multiple matches because of his accuracy and athleticism within the sticks. Also one cannot be enough grateful for what he's done with our defense being so weak for a long time. De Gea should forever be considered as one of the best in the category and he should be here for many more years to come. Sure Henderson has stepped up big time but he cannot take De Gea's place for another few years because it takes consistency and commitment to do what he has. I for one am a huge fan of his and will not let threads like this diminish his achievements. He could've been much bigger had he left to Madrid but he is a proper professional and is doing his job better still. Keep your criticisms to yourself and be grateful we have such a great keeper in our squad. He's world class but human yet!! There shall be no doubts about it!
 
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EwanI Ted

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Does anyone really think that De Gea falling from being arguably the best in the world to merely being very good is the reason we're struggling yet again this season? Other than Fred, McTominay, Bruno, maybe Rashford & Maguire, I think almost every player in the squad has bigger question marks against them than De Gea does.
 

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Wow! I cannot believe you guys think De Gea is in decline. What constitutes a decline? Number of clean sheets? Goal difference? Number of mistakes? If you take into account the number of saves he's got in the past couple of seasons when people think he's in decline, you would be surprised because the man has won us multiple matches because of his accuracy and athleticism within the sticks. Also one cannot be enough grateful for what he's done with our defense being so weak for a long time. De Gea should forever be considered as one of the best in the category and he should be here for many more years to come. Sure Henderson has stepped up big time but he cannot take De Gea's place for another few years because it takes consistency and commitment to do what he has. I for one am a huge fan of his and will not let threads like this diminish his achievements. He could've been much bigger had he left to Madrid but he is a proper professional and is doing his job better still. Keep your criticisms to yourself and be grateful we have such a great keeper in our squad. He's world class but human yet!! There shall be no doubts about it!
Why is he not Spain's #1 when Kepa ( who is #2 at chelsea right now).
 

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My old boss said to me "if you're going to f*ck up, f*ck up big, because it's the small mistakes that drive me crazy". With that in mind the mistake vs Everton doesn't bother me as much. Yes it was a huge mistake but it's not something that will be the norm. DeGeas biggest problem is that he does make a lot of stupid mistakes and I have been calling for him to be out for quite a while. In his younger years he was great because of his natural talent, however he has always struggled with the basics. He has never been good at c commanding his six years box and always struggled with crosses. He also has poor positioning which his agility used to make up for. Now, not so much. So yes, I would be good with selling him. Problem is I can only see Juve or perhaps Inter as possible destinations. We should have sold him to Real Madrid a couple of years ago. But I'm not saying this because of the Everton game. In fact, he has been doing well over the last month or two. However, Henderson is our future. If not next season then the season after for sure...
 

Andycoleno9

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How many threads you people need about De Gea?
He is still in top 10 in the world( top 5 for me). All of you who think that he is shit feel free to name 10 better gk.
 

Smores

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Does anyone really think that De Gea falling from being arguably the best in the world to merely being very good is the reason we're struggling yet again this season? Other than Fred, McTominay, Bruno, maybe Rashford & Maguire, I think almost every player in the squad has bigger question marks against them than De Gea does.
Yeah but people can make endless excuses for why outfield players don't perform, see Martial Goalkeepers are judged to a much harsher standard and barely ever get the same level of credit either.
 

Freeney

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I think that his decline is a bit overstated by some fans but i disagree with the the notion that we should blindy reward someone for past performances. If Henderson performs better than De gea then he plays. The question for the club is whether you sell him now while he may still have a big market or wait until it's too late. In my opinion its not that hard of a decision. You try to sell De gea this summer (To show Henderson the commitment before he can walk for free in a couple of years.) Not only is Henderson a lot younger but he also give you the chance to spend the De gea wages on a quality player or two. If Henderson flops you still have a competent goalkeeper in Romero. The days of dreading a De gea move are long gone in my book.
 
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Alabaster Codify7

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I don't understand how people fail to see that Ole can be very ruthless IF he has players that are capable of replacing the underperforming ones.

Lingard, Pereira and Young are the prime examples.


WHAT????

He gave one a new fecking contract, begged another to sign an extension and the third is still getting more game-time than he deserves.

The narrative is truly being re-written.
 

theklr

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Yeah but people can make endless excuses for why outfield players don't perform, see Martial Goalkeepers are judged to a much harsher standard and barely ever get the same level of credit either.
If Martial missed an open goal , which would be almost the equivalent to DDG mistake, I’m guessing he would get alot of stick too.
 
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