We never seem to learn. All it takes is one loss and it will be "Feck Ole, Poch's the man" again.Sorry to be a downer but threads like these are premature. At least wait til the end of the season to evaluate Ole's first full season. It's like giving Ole the permanent job before the end of last season.
Also, stop jinxing!!
My work here is doneSome people doesn’t learn. It is like we haven’t had a good run before.
As I stated, Ole reminds me of Di Matteo. He is doing decent because he has a good squad. But decent won’t get us back on top, we need an extraordinarily manager for that and either Pochettino or Nagelsman are those managers. False dawns don’t block my perspective
Tbh, I'd rather have these threads then the countless negative ones calling for his head.Sorry to be a downer but threads like these are premature. At least wait til the end of the season to evaluate Ole's first full season. It's like giving Ole the permanent job before the end of last season.
Also, stop jinxing!!
See what i did there?Some people doesn’t learn. It is like we haven’t had a good run before.
As I stated, Ole reminds me of Di Matteo. He is doing decent because he has a good squad. But decent won’t get us back on top, we need an extraordinarily manager for that and either Pochettino or Nagelsman are those managers. False dawns don’t block my perspective
This is what the absence of context does. So apparently SAF never spent money? And Klopp didn't? Compared to what? SAF may have been miserly in spending in a few seasons post-buyout - and was definitely parsimonious when compared with the figures today, but through most of his reign, despite the "Class of '92", United were amongst the highest spenders. We routinely broke transfer records and a lot of the hatred among other fans was how we outspent the other teams. Indeed, Arsene Wenger was initially hailed for having taken the fight to United without having to spend like us. We were the sharks of the PL at that time, right up until the Glazers and Abramovich arrived in quick succession.Sir Alex and Klopp has had success without spending insane amount of money. When you look at the teams with the most money spent on transfer, these managers have had long spells where they were not near the top. Unlike, post Fergie managers where they have been backed and supported by Woodward so much so that United is always either 1st, second or third in the club that has spent the most amount of money. This shows that the credit has a lot to do with Woodward and Glazers continued support of our manager.
Actually, the biggest difference is the results, but hey-ho. I don't even know if it's worth discussing this further with you when you seem to think that managers who employ a low-press vs a high-press and routinely lose vs routinely win these games are even remotely similar. Perhaps you also think Ighalo and Lukaku are similar strikers?Jose approach is reactive, counter attacking football. There is only a few difference between Jose approach and Ole and one of that difference is that Ole tends to high press at times. Other than that, they have more similarities than other progressive managers like Pochettino, Nagelsman and Tuchel. The comparison is more apt than saying Ole emulates Klopp, Pep or Pochettino philosophy.
Exactly. Whether Ole is good enough or not is yet to be seen (I think he isn't but hopefully he will prove us wrong) but I don't understand how anyone can use Matic's performance against Ole. Matic was playing poorly and he admitted he was playing with injury. Ole dropped him or didn't make him automatic first choice player and also Matic got time to get operated and fix his injury issue. Player also responded well for being dropped and playing very well.This needs some context. Matic was playing like shite and no one could argue that. Benching him and giving a signal that he might have to move on if he would not fix it was a correct action to take, not a mistake as Matic clearly responded and came back better. And, we need to sign a similar type of player sooner or later to replace him. I suspect he is trying something like this with a couple of other players at this moment as well.
And, who are the others that he tried to really phase out that became suddenly good again? If anything, he is getting credits for raising most of his players playing level.
I don't know how good Ole will become or if he is just simply having some luck at this moment. We will see but it is the most important skill of great managers.
Why poch?? Man can't even win in big games.Woohoo, stop right there. SAF or Klopp all needed to spend, not sure about Pochettino, the guy recruited 27 players or something in his time at Spurs.
So let's cut this crap. Everyone needs better players. Full stop.
But at equal players, Ole is not bad at all tactically, and to be honest, he's implementing an idea and an identity. That translates into the passion of the players. It's going to pay off soon.
Again, I urge to remember Ole played well in European games against way better opposition with s***** players. With better players? We are going to improve.
Di Matteo is not at all the same in this context.
Also, I really don't understand why Jose gets into that equation. Jose is a guy who is going to play compact and super low. We do not. We mostly play high press and sometimes play low to absorb pressure. This is very different. Jose doesn't counter press, we do as soon as we lose the ball. It seems that we are working even more off the ball to cut the ball passes.
Jose doesn't do that. At best, Jose pushes the DM down to split the CB and play 3 at the back and supposedly pushes the full backs but they don't really push that much because everyone plays low, so... I don't think we play like Jose.
I dont get what is so revolutionary about Poch's tactics and what sets him apart from everyone else. Spurs played high press and counter under him, much like how we want to play now. Sometimes in a 352, sometimes in a 4231 just like we do.No, I want him to succeed. And by his capabilities, succeeding would be getting into the champions league. Then this summer, replace him with either Pochettino or Nagelsman. The problem with Ole is that his brand of football is reactive and similar to Mourinho where there is a big emphasis on counter attacking football. That is not the philosophy I want at United. I want philosophy that is progressive and have us playing good football.
If Ole stays another season, he will need to have an Amazing squad to accomplish anything significant. Which means, more outspending of our rivals. He is not like Klopp, Nagelsman or Pochettino who don’t needs to spends millions just to have a functioning team. Sir Alex was the same, where he doesn’t need to spend crazy amounts to have functioning team. Under Sir Alex, we were not near the top in spending. However, it is different with our current managers. These are the type of managers that will take us to the next level. Not managers who needs crazy amount of money just to have a functioning team. That is where the similarity with Di Matteo lies as he will eventually be found out/has been found out if he doesn’t improve his managerial capabilities.
If we are going to back our manager with huge sums of cash, I rather we give that amount of money to managers who have proven to have done well with limited resources and have a more progressive philosophy.
SAF never beat Pep unfortunately, but Ole’s gotten some good revenge just this season alone..I think Fergie has only beaten Pep once or maybe twice.
But ole has beated Pep three times in one season already.
Upside down world we live in.
SAF’s last team won barely any games 1-0. We were just out scoring everyone that season as we couldn’t keep clean sheets. Not sure where you’ve got that from.(even SAF's final team of 1-0 winners).
.....Many more will see the light soon.....The man's doing well, and after a bad run of form we've done excellent the last few months. Several wins v City this season now, Fernandes is a MEGA SIGNING and we've now got the foundations to go on and build something special.
Feck Poch. Ole's the man.
Sickens me how much they raised their game against us, then completely rolled over for Chelsea yesterday. That’s also a fixture we historically struggle with. I wouldn’t read too much into the one.I still want us to put the lower teams away. Too many 1-1 draws (like at Everton last week). I think we have brighton and b'mouth coming up soon, lets see how we fare against them.
The entire forum would agree with you but that was back near the end of January before Bruno/Ighalo joined us. Our front four starting was Martial, James, Mata and Pereira. I like James as a player, he's got his uses but he's still a clear work in progress and wouldn't start when all our players are back fit. Pereira simply shouldn't be here, he's not good enough and Mata is on his last legs (although looks much better when Bruno is on the pitch). What i'm pointing out here is that the Burnley result was a failure of our squad, not our first team as we had several first teamers out.The Burnley at home game was the most recent, concerning game for me.
Good post. Our form for a prolonged period was terrible with little sign of improvement. Anyone who didn't question Ole's suitability to turn it round were either blind or stubborn or both. We had been utterly dreadful since the PSG game the previous season. I think Ole was pretty lucky to hold onto his job but even the most die hard of 'Ole Out' must at least now acknowledge we are playing some really good football and where you've said Ole should get top four to deserve another season I don't agree.I don't really see the point in apologizing, or saying I was wrong for doubting him. We were genuinely rubbish under him for most of the season, a total mess. I still think anyone who didn't doubt him was doing so purely out of blind faith and bias towards him, there were very few positives to see.
We also still have a really low points total after 29 games (still our lowest ever, I think?) and only last week we struggled against Everton, and only a month ago we couldn't beat Wolves at home, which still leaves me concerned as to our biggest problem under Ole this season. Not our results against big teams, but our results and performances against teams we should beat.
That said, he has done what I thought he was incapable of and turned things around a lot since our lowest of low points around December time and he deserves a lot of credit for that. We're a better team (Bruno played a huge part in that too) and very solid defensively. I still don't think we're a particularly great side to watch but certainly improving.
I still stand by what I always said; if he gets top four and has a decent run in the cups, he deserves another season. Any less, and he doesn't. But I'm fecking delighted with our current form and I really hope he does meet those expectations and shows he is capable of being the main man here, for sure. There's a lot to be optimistic about from the last month, long may it continue.
AmenI don't really see the point in apologizing, or saying I was wrong for doubting him. We were genuinely rubbish under him for most of the season, a total mess. I still think anyone who didn't doubt him was doing so purely out of blind faith and bias towards him, there were very few positives to see.
We also still have a really low points total after 29 games (still our lowest ever, I think?) and only last week we struggled against Everton, and only a month ago we couldn't beat Wolves at home, which still leaves me concerned as to our biggest problem under Ole this season. Not our results against big teams, but our results and performances against teams we should beat.
That said, he has done what I thought he was incapable of and turned things around a lot since our lowest of low points around December time and he deserves a lot of credit for that. We're a better team (Bruno played a huge part in that too) and very solid defensively. I still don't think we're a particularly great side to watch but certainly improving.
I still stand by what I always said; if he gets top four and has a decent run in the cups, he deserves another season. Any less, and he doesn't. But I'm fecking delighted with our current form and I really hope he does meet those expectations and shows he is capable of being the main man here, for sure. There's a lot to be optimistic about from the last month, long may it continue.
What players back fit? Only Rashford if we're being honest as Pogba plays in a different position. He could start in games where we need that cover at RB. His energy and willingness to track back was vital, and will be against good sides. Other games; we could see a front 2 of Rashford and Martial with Bruno behind.The entire forum would agree with you but that was back near the end of January before Bruno/Ighalo joined us. Our front four starting was Martial, James, Mata and Pereira. I like James as a player, he's got his uses but he's still a clear work in progress and wouldn't start when all our players are back fit. Pereira simply shouldn't be here, he's not good enough and Mata is on his last legs (although looks much better when Bruno is on the pitch). What i'm pointing out here is that the Burnley result was a failure of our squad, not our first team as we had several first teamers out.
We've played 10 games since that Burnley game and have been unbeaten, winning 7 and drawing 3. We've been through that run without 2 of our best players in Rashford/Pogba.
That's a fair point. I'm probably thinking in the fact that Chelsea are a relatively inconsistent side still and based on us becoming more consistent under Ole recently we've been closing the gap to them. I also don't think Leicester are out of reach at all either given their big dip in form. I think top four should be considered a very realistic target but if Chelsea and Leicester do hit their early season form again it's understandable if we don't get it.Good post. Our form for a prolonged period was terrible with little sign of improvement. Anyone who didn't question Ole's suitability to turn it round were either blind or stubborn or both. We had been utterly dreadful since the PSG game the previous season. I think Ole was pretty lucky to hold onto his job but even the most die hard of 'Ole Out' must at least now acknowledge we are playing some really good football and where you've said Ole should get top four to deserve another season I don't agree.
If Chelsea continue to beat teams we will struggle to get top 4 but if we continue our current form, finish the season in 5th in good shape, playing good football he should keep his job. The turnaround since Bruno came is amazing.
Half of the posters didn't doubt him though. They were 100% sure he is the worst manager in the league and it was shambles that he hadn't been sacked already. Zero nuance or rationality.I don't really see the point in apologizing, or saying I was wrong for doubting him. We were genuinely rubbish under him for most of the season, a total mess. I still think anyone who didn't doubt him was doing so purely out of blind faith and bias towards him, there were very few positives to see.
We've swapped out Pereira in that lineup with Bruno, we'd swap out Mata with Rashford. The only two remaining would be Martial and James (who clearly needs improving on). We'll certainly bring in a first teamer to occupy the space alongside Martial/Rashford upfront. That will be one of our Summer priorities (hence us wanting Sancho, the ideal player imo).What players back fit? Only Rashford if we're being honest as Pogba plays in a different position. He could start in games where we need that cover at RB. His energy and willingness to track back was vital, and will be against good sides. Other games; we could see a front 2 of Rashford and Martial with Bruno behind.
Nice options to have.
The biggest difference to this Ole side is having the right players. Bruno has clearly injected a level of confidence that has been missing for ages. Ole's man management is also a key factor. The belief he's given to Fred( previously known as Fred the Pointless) is quite brilliant. Matic looks like the player we initially signed. He has also set aside Pereira and Lingard for games we should win, without discarding them entirely.
He has along with the coaches earned huge credit for instilling a belief in the team. Now, we need to get the recruitment right
The worst ate those who claim they dont hate him but I think he is useless. Then they proceed to say, I hope he gladly proves me wrong and I would be the first to put my hands up.Quite a few posters referring to themselves as Ole doubters and in many cases, they weren’t even that at all.
There was no doubt in their minds. He was a useless manager... worst in the league. Just a glorified PE teacher. All sorts of over the top ridiculous hyperbole. Hopefully this will be quite humbling.
You don't think it was rational to want a manager sacked who had won something like 9 games in 30, a win percentage of 28%, had our lowest ever points tally in that time, and had done zero in his ten year managerial career to imbue confidence that he was capable of delivering at the PL level, let alone for the biggest club in England? Please.Half of the posters didn't doubt him though. They were 100% sure he is the worst manager in the league and it was shambles that he hadn't been sacked already. Zero nuance or rationality.
Even the Ole backers would have doubts and most probably still do, but believing he deserves more time is very different to the many posters who act like they have all the answers already and everyone is stupidly blind to it.
I'm aware of that but you did state, 'when players are back fit,' not bringing in new personnel.We've swapped out Pereira in that lineup with Bruno, we'd swap out Mata with Rashford. The only two remaining would be Martial and James (who clearly needs improving on). We'll certainly bring in a first teamer to occupy the space alongside Martial/Rashford upfront. That will be one of our Summer priorities (hence us wanting Sancho, the ideal player imo).
The next issue Ole and the coaches will need to figure out is how to utilise Pogba and Bruno in the same team and get the best out of both. That might not be a long standing issue as Pogba is probably more likely to leave in the Summer. But it's certainly going to come up in the final month of this season.
I mean, you did say that anybody who thought we could challenge under Ole is deluded. Now I am not sure whether we will or not... but if we do, I truly hope you are able to take zero pleasure in it given your view on fans who have actually supported the manager.I do agree that some posters were completely over the top with the abuse of him but that wasn't me so whatever.
Well, I stand by that comment as we started Jones, Williams, Pereira and Mata against Burnley all of whom could be replaced by better players that were injured at that time. We were scraping the barrel somewhat against Burnley and got punished for it.I'm aware of that but you did state, 'when players are back fit,' not bringing in new personnel.
Pogba's gone mate...get used to it.
I stand by that because I'd be absolutely amazed if we ever challenge for the title under him. We're on course for maybe 60-65 points max this season. If he can get us consistently in the top four over the next few years whilst improving the squad I think he'll have done well, though.I mean, you did say that anybody who thought we could challenge under Ole is deluded. Now I am not sure whether we will or not... but if we do, I truly hope you are able to take zero pleasure in it given your view on fans who have actually supported the manager.
When Ole came to Utd, he became our top goalscorer the first year (96/97), having 18 goals and 5 assists in the premier league. Hi linked up really well with Eric. So yes, at one point he was our top striker.Right... so you think Ole was the most talented striker at Utd? Or in the PL at the time?
Or you think Ole is the most talented coach?
Actually own your post and specify what exactly is 'garbage' about the sentence - "just as he did as a player, he brings great highs despite not being the most talented in his position."
Be specific.
