Who is the greater player: Ryan Giggs vs Gareth Bale

Who is the greater player?

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Bebestation

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Okey said:
Erm...that would make Keylor Navas and Victor Valdes 2 of the greatest keepers ever I guess? Sometimes it's about being in the right club at the right time...
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Erm.. Bale literally won 2 of the finals..

The keepers you are talking about aren't particularly sh*t either - playing for Barcelona and Madrid.

And I totally agree with it being at the right club at the right time. Giggs the midfielder wouldn't have existed anywhere apart from United - the 1 extra CL & some of the extra PL's wouldn't be in his trophy hall if he hadn't had SAF literally have the capacity to win the PL's with players like Cleverley. His midfield game was not Pirlo and Xavi, it wasnt even a rui Costa or a seedorf - it was a technically useful player with leadership qualities that a manager like SAF had the capability of getting use out of that he eventually held on for far too long even though he should have replaced with a younger player - which would have helped his following managers. Giggs's longevity and extended trophy hall plays as much reasoning to being in the right place at the right time as does bale or navas or Valdes or literally anyone.

So I agree, all players are about being at the right place at the right time.
 

youngrell

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Bebestation said:
Erm.. Bale literally won 2 of the finals..

The keepers you are talking about aren't particularly sh*t either - playing for Barcelona and Madrid.

And I totally agree with it being at the right club at the right time. Giggs the midfielder wouldn't have existed anywhere apart from United - the 1 extra CL & some of the extra PL's wouldn't be in his trophy hall if he hadn't had SAF literally have the capacity to win the PL's with players like Cleverley. His midfield game was not Pirlo and Xavi, it wasnt even a rui Costa or a seedorf - it was a technically useful player with leadership qualities that a manager like SAF had the capability of getting use out of that he eventually held on for far too long even though he should have replaced with a younger player - which would have helped his following managers. Giggs's longevity and extended trophy hall plays as much reasoning to being in the right place at the right time as does bale or navas or Valdes or literally anyone.

So I agree, all players are about being at the right place at the right time.
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You realise Giggs won PFA Player of the Year a season after his second CL medal? And also got a Balon d’Or nomination. At 35. Playing CM.

You talk as if Giggs was a passenger at United, when in truth he was the only player in all of SAF’s successful teams.
 

Dante

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Giggs has a much better touch, was a better and more creative passer, was much more press-resistant, had much better close control when running at speed, and had much better footballing intelligence which enabled him to play in about 5 different positions at the highest levels of football.

Bale has his own strengths, of course. But people are missing the point when they compare one with the other based only on goal stats. Bale could never have played on left midfield or as a DLP the way that Giggs did.
 

Champagne Football

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It's hard to compare the two considering the role of the winger has changed so much in England over the last 20 years. When Giggs was emerging it was all about trickery on the wing while being able to put a great cross in for the forward. You had all these tricky dribbling wingers like McManaman, Lee Sharpe, Ginola, Kanchelskis. Pires,.... and Giggs in his prime was head and shoulders above all those players.

But in the modern game it became all about pace and stats. The likes of Rashford and Martial would have been nailed on strikers back in the day, but their pace and power attributes means a lot of modern coaches will put them out wide instead. Wingers primarily need to be speed demons today like Sadio Mane and are more involved with scoring goals than traditional wingers who were encouraged to cross more. So Bale is very much a modern winger that fits into the Robben, CR7, Sterling, Rashford category where it's less about trickery and crossing and more about pace and goals.

In their prime, they were both the best in the league at what they did, so it's almost impossible to compare them, and they specialised in different things. Would probably be better to compare Rashford to Bale as they are similar style modern wingers.
 
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ivaldo

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Imagine if Giggs was put on the market in the late 90s. There wouldn't be a team in world football that wouldn't want to sign him.
 

OrcaFat

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I just watched a Bale highlights vid and he looks brilliant on there.

Why is there constant stuff about him not being in the team and Zidane hates him and he’d rather play golf? If he is half as good as that highlights vid made him look, the world’s gone flipping mad.

Also the footage of Bale is so clear and looks like a Hollywood movie but the Giggs highlights vids look like amateur handy-cam of Bigfoot sightings or You’ve Been Framed type of thing.
 

Righteous Steps

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Champagne Football said:
It's hard to compare the two considering the role of the winger has changed so much in England over the last 20 years. When Giggs was emerging it was all about trickery on the wing while being able to put a great cross in for the forward. You had all these tricky dribbling wingers like McManaman, Lee Sharpe, Ginola, Kanchelskis. Pires,.... and Giggs in his prime was head and shoulders above all those players.

But in the modern game it became all about pace and stats. The likes of Rashford and Martial would have been nailed on strikers back in the day, but their pace and power attributes means a lot of modern coaches will put them out wide instead. Wingers primarily need to be speed demons today like Sadio Mane and are more involved with scoring goals than traditional wingers who were encouraged to cross more. So Bale is very much a modern winger that fits into the Robben, CR7, Sterling, Rashford category where it's less about trickery and crossing and more about pace and goals.

In their prime, they were both the best in the league at what they did, so it's almost impossible to compare them, and they specialised in different things. Would probably be better to compare Rashford to Bale as they are similar style modern wingers.
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Giggs is better than Bale for me but he wasn’t head and shoulders above Pires Ginola or Mcmanaman in his prime.
 

yan man utd

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Righteous Steps said:
Giggs is better than Bale for me but he wasn’t head and shoulders above Pires Ginola or Mcmanaman in his prime.
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For me, it could be said that he actually performed all the above roles at different stages of the above
First, he was the ultimate team player and he was part of a system that always worked. I can recall days of him at his mesmerising best from a playmaking free role when he had the ball more than any other player in our team. A playmaker he was for a long time, it’s just that the memory is distorted by the many years of watching him from his explosive best as a youngster and that blistering pace to a central midfielder who was reincarnated.
If we had different players and he played in a different era and system who is to say he would not have played more centrally?
There was a long period of time when he would take the ball from defence to attack and literally relieve us / totally transform the dynamic of a match. He could keep possession esp in tight situations, beat a man/ many men , track back, win the ball, move off the ball but above all create and score. And he is our most decorated

surely no contest
 

He'sRaldo

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OrcaFat said:
I just watched a Bale highlights vid and he looks brilliant on there.

Why is there constant stuff about him not being in the team and Zidane hates him and he’d rather play golf? If he is half as good as that highlights vid made him look, the world’s gone flipping mad.

Also the footage of Bale is so clear and looks like a Hollywood movie but the Giggs highlights vids look like amateur handy-cam of Bigfoot sightings or You’ve Been Framed type of thing.
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That stuff is Real Madrid propaganda. The main thing he's struggled with is injuries, not motivation.
 

OrcaFat

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He'sRaldo said:
That stuff is Real Madrid propaganda. The main thing he's struggled with is injuries, not motivation.
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But why is there propaganda...? Who is it for?

He looks like he should be an automatic choice. And a fan’s hero.
 

yan man utd

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Ryan Giggs was the one consistent choice throughout a period of unprecedented domination of English football for the most decorated team. Gareth Bale has been a world class player but not as integral or remotely as complete a footballer nor has he won as many trophies or in fact been at the top as long. They are both great players but Giggs did more around the pitch and had more technical all round ability which was demonstrated more. Will leave it at that.
 

He'sRaldo

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OrcaFat said:
But why is there propaganda...? Who is it for?

He looks like he should be an automatic choice. And a fan’s hero.
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He complained against Zidane and threatened to leave the club, after scoring the wonder goal off the bench in the CL final. Then, when both Zidane and CR7 left the club at the same time, he failed to fill the void they left and be the main man. That, his injury problems, and Zidane coming back and publicly not wanting him (understandably after the CL final event) led to the complicated situation he now has at Madrid.

Madrid tried to use the propaganda to drive him out of the club in an underhanded way. The truth is his motivation was never the issue, the issues were his fitness and Zidane preferring Isco over him because of it.
 

Lennon7

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Would’ve easily been Bale, but he’s dropped off. Injuries have really fecked him and he’s not the player he was.
 

amolbhatia50k

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OrcaFat said:
I just watched a Bale highlights vid and he looks brilliant on there.

Why is there constant stuff about him not being in the team and Zidane hates him and he’d rather play golf? If he is half as good as that highlights vid made him look, the world’s gone flipping mad.

Also the footage of Bale is so clear and looks like a Hollywood movie but the Giggs highlights vids look like amateur handy-cam of Bigfoot sightings or You’ve Been Framed type of thing.
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OrcaFat said:
But why is there propaganda...? Who is it for?

He looks like he should be an automatic choice. And a fan’s hero.
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Highlights vids :lol:
 

Bebestation

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He'sRaldo said:
He complained against Zidane and threatened to leave the club, after scoring the wonder goal off the bench in the CL final. Then, when both Zidane and CR7 left the club at the same time, he failed to fill the void they left and be the main man. That, his injury problems, and Zidane coming back and publicly not wanting him (understandably after the CL final event) led to the complicated situation he now has at Madrid.

Madrid tried to use the propaganda to drive him out of the club in an underhanded way. The truth is his motivation was never the issue, the issues were his fitness and Zidane preferring Isco over him because of it.
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I dont think Bale's strongest position was ever cutting in from the right. He was a LB who grew on the LM and didnt have the space for LM at Real Madrid for that or CF so played RW.

If I remember correctly- he even ended up playing like an CAM for Wales and I think he even played excellent whenever I saw him because he played like a quick gun with high tempo & energy that defenders struggled to play against in comparison to the RW who sometimes might take too long trying to cut in all the time or make the runs from the right.

He has an absolutely fantastic shot on him & Wales simplified it by putting him centrally and getting all the balls to him - it was amazing to watch.
 
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He'sRaldo

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Bebestation said:
I dont think Bale's strongest position was ever cutting in from the right. He was a LB who grew on the LM and didnt have the space for LM at Real Madrid for that or CF so played RW.

If I remember correctly- he even ended up playing like an CAM for Wales and I think he even played excellent whenever I saw him because he played like a quick gun with high tempo & energy that defenders struggled to play against in comparison to the RW who sometimes might take too long trying to cut in all the time or make the runs from the right.

He has an absolutely fantastic shot on him & Wales simplified it by putting him centrally and getting all the balls to him - it was amazing to watch.
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Yeah his best period at Madrid was when he was Benitez' main man as a number 10. I think if he had played as a 10/winger hybrid at Madrid he would have been even more successful than he eventually was. Which is impressive to say because he was very successful already, even if he was curtailed a lot by injuries.

It's interesting to see people say that Giggs could play midfield while Bale couldn't, meanwhile Bale was actually best as a no. 10, and after that at LW.
 

Renegade

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Dante said:
Giggs has a much better touch, was a better and more creative passer, was much more press-resistant, had much better close control when running at speed, and had much better footballing intelligence which enabled him to play in about 5 different positions at the highest levels of football.

Bale has his own strengths, of course. But people are missing the point when they compare one with the other based only on goal stats. Bale could never have played on left midfield or as a DLP the way that Giggs did.
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Correct me if I’m wrong but wasn’t Bale playing on the left of a 442 for Spurs when he started to blow up? I know his last season for Spurs saw him playing as a 10/free role but It wasn’t until he moved to Madrid he played as part of a forward 3.
I agree he wouldn’t be able to play the central midfield effectively like Giggs did but I don’t think that should be held against him when we compare them. As other wide forward such as Robben,Ribéry,Ronaldo wouldn’t be able to either.
 

RC89

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Giggs did yoga and lasted a good few years. But Bale at his best was better and by a clear margin too.
 

youngrell

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This thread has been a car crash. Putting aside the debate of Giggs vs Bale (because I can see good arguments for both), just the sheer down valuing and under appreciation of our most decorated player is astonishing.

Comments from ‘he was just a very good player’, to questioning his production and contribution to the team, and finally that he was afforded longevity simply through blind loyalty and nothing else is quite unbelievable for a Man Utd forum.

For those of you so in love with stats (and bizarrely trying to use them against Giggs) here’s a few for you to look at:

SAF managed United for exactly 1,500 competitive games. Of those games, he played Ryan Giggs 941 times.

That means 62.7% of all games under SAF featured Giggs, which I’m sure you’ll agree is quite incredible.

When you consider the great man was here 4 years before Giggs even made his debut it gets even more incredible.

1,235 games since Giggsy’s debut = Giggs picked for 76.2% of games he was active for under SAF.

Giggs scored 168 and assisted 308 goals in that period. A goal or assist in 0.505 games.

Which means for 941 games (or 76.2% of SAF’s career at United) Giggs give a 50% guarantee of a goal.

Since Giggs’ debut, the club scored 2,448 goals under SAF. Giggs contributed directly to 19.4% of them - and that of course doesn’t take into account the goals he’d have been involved in without the final shot or pass, of which there a tonnes due to his ball carrying skills up the field.

This is also all games and doesn’t take into account games in which he wasn’t playing, so his production goes up further still (can’t be arsed to work that out atm).

So I can definitely see why Sir Alex kept this passenger around for so long. I don’t think it was because of loyalty.
 

RedRonaldo

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Dribbling/ball control/technique - Giggs
Speed/acceleration - Bale (Bale with more raw pace, but Giggs run pretty much as fast with the ball)
Passing/crossing - Giggs
Finishing/goalscoring - Bale
Corner/setpiece - Giggs
Direct free kick - Bale
Creativity - Giggs (308 assists, simply no match)
Decision making - Giggs
Peak - Bale
Career - Giggs
 

OrcaFat

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RedRonaldo said:
Dribbling/ball control/technique - Giggs
Speed/acceleration - Bale (Bale with more raw pace, but Giggs run pretty much as fast with the ball)
Passing/crossing - Giggs
Finishing/goalscoring - Bale
Corner/setpiece - Giggs
Direct free kick - Bale
Creativity - Giggs (308 assists, simply no match)
Decision making - Giggs
Peak - Bale
Career - Giggs
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Yeah, that’s fair. When we talk about Peak, it would be fun to compare their best ever game (and best 5 games or best 10 games) - I guess Bale would still have the edge because of goals but there were times when Giggs was an unstoppable genius, albeit fleetingly.
 

OrcaFat

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youngrell said:
This thread has been a car crash. Putting aside the debate of Giggs vs Bale (because I can see good arguments for both), just the sheer down valuing and under appreciation of our most decorated player is astonishing.

Comments from ‘he was just a very good player’, to questioning his production and contribution to the team, and finally that he was afforded longevity simply through blind loyalty and nothing else is quite unbelievable for a Man Utd forum.

For those of you so in love with stats (and bizarrely trying to use them against Giggs) here’s a few for you to look at:

SAF managed United for exactly 1,500 competitive games. Of those games, he played Ryan Giggs 941 times.

That means 62.7% of all games under SAF featured Giggs, which I’m sure you’ll agree is quite incredible.

When you consider the great man was here 4 years before Giggs even made his debut it gets even more incredible.

1,235 games since Giggsy’s debut = Giggs picked for 76.2% of games he was active for under SAF.

Giggs scored 168 and assisted 308 goals in that period. A goal or assist in 0.505 games.

Which means for 941 games (or 76.2% of SAF’s career at United) Giggs give a 50% guarantee of a goal.

Since Giggs’ debut, the club scored 2,448 goals under SAF. Giggs contributed directly to 19.4% of them - and that of course doesn’t take into account the goals he’d have been involved in without the final shot or pass, of which there a tonnes due to his ball carrying skills up the field.

This is also all games and doesn’t take into account games in which he wasn’t playing, so his production goes up further still (can’t be arsed to work that out atm).

So I can definitely see why Sir Alex kept this passenger around for so long. I don’t think it was because of loyalty.
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When fit he was one of the first names on the team sheet, for good reason.

There is definitely some polarisation going on in this thread, in support of opposing views. I expect most people realise that both these guys are in the elite bracket and, weighing up their strengths and achievements, there’s little more than a hair between them.

I definitely appreciate Bale more through reading this thread (and watching a few vids) but I’m firmly in the Giggs camp because I lived through his whole journey and, frankly, it was a privilege that quite literally made my life better.
 

Infordin

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One way to answer this question would be to ask yourself: who’s career would you rather have, Bale or Giggs?
 

Rozay

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RedRonaldo said:
Dribbling/ball control/technique - Giggs
Speed/acceleration - Bale (Bale with more raw pace, but Giggs run pretty much as fast with the ball)
Passing/crossing - Giggs
Finishing/goalscoring - Bale
Corner/setpiece - Giggs
Direct free kick - Bale
Creativity - Giggs (308 assists, simply no match)
Decision making - Giggs
Peak - Bale
Career - Giggs
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Contrary to the repetition, which I suspect may be partly lazily formed just because Giggs was the more ‘traditional winger’ and Bale is a ‘goalscorer’ - Giggs was not a better crosser than Bale to me.

People used to complain loads about his final ball I remember. He wasn’t one of the great PL crossers of a ball. Bale had KdB/Trent like delivery. When Bale moved into a front 3, crossing naturally became a leaser feature of his game. But as a LB - he was Trent like

Regarding decision making, perhaps at the latter end of his career, but this is another strength being lazily attributed to Giggs for me. I recall shouting at the telly for years at Giggs trying a stupid backheel at the wrong time, and he was very erratic for much of his career in this department.

Other than that, I agree with the rest. Although tbh, regardless of who scores higher in a particular department, it doesn’t necessarily determine who a better player is. It’s simply about how useful they could be to their team.
 

Rozay

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KirkDuyt said:
Giggs vs Robben is a better one. Giggs vs Bale, obviously Giggs.
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Robben was better too. Although I suspect by the time we run it through a list of specific parameters/metrics - maybe not!
 

OrcaFat

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Rozay said:
Robben was better too. Although I suspect by the time we run it through a list of specific parameters/metrics - maybe not!
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Robben was amazingly good. Perhaps the best of the three.
 

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youngrell said:
You realise Giggs won PFA Player of the Year a season after his second CL medal? And also got a Balon d’Or nomination. At 35. Playing CM.

You talk as if Giggs was a passenger at United, when in truth he was the only player in all of SAF’s successful teams.
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Giggs winning the PFA player of the year was a joke. He started like 10 games that season.
 

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OrcaFat said:
Robben was amazingly good. Perhaps the best of the three.
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Giggs has the longevity though and much less of the injuries. Peak Robben Id say is best of the three. Overal career Giggs edges it. Had Robben scored against Casillas in 2010 Id switch em around.
 

Nanook

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OrcaFat said:
Yeah all them stoopid footballers voting for him
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Look at the FIFA team of the years. I think I remember Iniesta being in it as late as 2017 when he was well past it.

It’s ridiculous that somebody who started 12 league games that season was voted the best player.
 

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youngrell said:
SAF managed United for exactly 1,500 competitive games. Of those games, he played Ryan Giggs 941 times.

That means 62.7% of all games under SAF featured Giggs, which I’m sure you’ll agree is quite incredible.

When you consider the great man was here 4 years before Giggs even made his debut it gets even more incredible.

1,235 games since Giggsy’s debut = Giggs picked for 76.2% of games he was active for under SAF.

Giggs scored 168 and assisted 308 goals in that period. A goal or assist in 0.505 games.

Which means for 941 games (or 76.2% of SAF’s career at United) Giggs give a 50% guarantee of a goal.

Since Giggs’ debut, the club scored 2,448 goals under SAF. Giggs contributed directly to 19.4% of them - and that of course doesn’t take into account the goals he’d have been involved in without the final shot or pass, of which there a tonnes due to his ball carrying skills up the field.

This is also all games and doesn’t take into account games in which he wasn’t playing, so his production goes up further still (can’t be arsed to work that out atm).

So I can definitely see why Sir Alex kept this passenger around for so long. I don’t think it was because of loyalty.
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Cheers, good post.
 
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