How long will Liverpool's dominance last?

golden_blunder · Jun 26, 2020

I don’t think that they will win the title next season. The stars aligned for them this year, everything went for them. It’s been coming though in fairness.

some of their squad players will need replaced - Milner, Shaqiri, Lallana.

next season they will lose mane and Salah to the African nations cup for a chunk of time. No disrespect to the backups but they ain’t the same level. Will they buy with that in mind? I feel like Covid has done them in on the financial front. But they may get better sponsorship funding coming in to offset that now that they are champions.

how long will klopp stay? I feel like he may do another season then look for a new challenge. He’s now won the CL and PL.

OJKernow · Jun 26, 2020

Fully expect Liverpool to be 'up there' and competing for titles over the next 4-5 years at least. The nature of the modern game is that it's highly unlikely they will dominate 100% during that time though, look at the City side which people would say have been the 'dominant' side over the last 5 years, they've 'only' won the league twice in that time.

Massive achievement for Liverpool, and painfully much deserved, but their next test is do they have it in them to defend it? Not many teams have done two in a row, and we know only the real best do three in a row..........

golden_blunder · Jun 26, 2020

JustAGuest said:
What counts as dominance? I expect City to bounce back next season. This has been a strange season where everything has gone their way, especially the way City have kept dropping points.

I don’t. I feel like city squad is aging and needs surgery. Remains to be seen whether pep stays and what investment they put in.

i feel like Chelsea and united will be the ones pushing Liverpool hard next season. Chelsea look like they are investing money on good players and united have an excellent squad with growing belief.

Stocar · Jun 26, 2020

Absolutely deserved title, but this team has no potential for genuine domination. Their underlying numbers are still significantly lower than City's, they relied on incredible amount of scrappy wins (a feat that probably will not ever be replicated), and went out of all other competitions.

Incredibly motivated, perfectly trained, warrior like team that maximized all its talents and took everything (and then some more) from every league game in the past two years. Fair play to them.

Rob · Jun 26, 2020

We’ve had two fantastic seasons resulting in one CL and one PL trophy. I don’t think that’s domination, although the term can be interpreted in many ways. In any case, considering we’ll lose Mane and Salah for a couple of months mid season, I can’t see us winning it again next season. At least not unless we strengthen the squad significantly. It’s also why I was a bit bummed out by the Werner deal falling through, as he was exactly the kind of signing we should be looking at. I also expect both yourselves, Chelsea and City to be much better next season.

Random Task · Jun 26, 2020

Liverpool face a whole new set of challenges next year. Rather than being among the pack chasing a supposedly unstoppable City team, which was certainly the case before the season kicked off, they're now the top dogs who everyone wants to beat. Their aging squad will be another year past their prime, and perhaps lacking the motivation for a repeat performance of the previous season. They won't retain the title.

Meanwhile, the PL's younger, talented squads from United and Chelsea will be another year along in their development, plus they both have the funds to make considerable squad upgrades where necessary. The United squad will have the added incentive of being desperate to stop Liverpool winning it again next season, and if they don't feel that way, Fergie will see to it that they do.

GlasgowCeltic · Jun 26, 2020

golden_blunder said:
I don’t think that they will win the title next season. The stars aligned for them this year, everything went for them. It’s been coming though in fairness.

some of their squad players will need replaced - Milner, Shaqiri, Lallana.

next season they will lose mane and Salah to the African nations cup for a chunk of time. No disrespect to the backups but they ain’t the same level. Will they buy with that in mind? I feel like Covid has done them in on the financial front. But they may get better sponsorship funding coming in to offset that now that they are champions.

how long will klopp stay? I feel like he may do another season then look for a new challenge. He’s now won the CL and PL.

golden_blunder said:
I don’t. I feel like city squad is aging and needs surgery. Remains to be seen whether pep stays and what investment they put in.

i feel like Chelsea and united will be the ones pushing Liverpool hard next season. Chelsea look like they are investing money on good players and united have an excellent squad with growing belief.

So you’re saying it’s Chelsea or Utd for the title? Lampard and Ole to finish above Pep and Klopp?

Steve Bruce · Jun 26, 2020

How long will it last?

They've only just won it last night, surely it takes more than one Premier league title before we talk about dominance?

Dave Smith · Jun 26, 2020

I think they may win it again next year but I am not too sure how much longer after that, it will depend on a number of factors.

First, is that their owners do not go crazy with money. Hence, unless they sell off a Sane/Salah etc then reinvest wisely, I can see Utd and Chelsea catching them up in the next 18-24 months as their front line will be hitting 30 and I do not see them investing this year.

Second, their high line has started to be figured out by teams. This is something I have been slightly surprised hasn't been exploited more this season, however I next season I do not see them winning as many games by one goal as they have this season.

Third is what happens with City. City are still a super team but have a awful defence, if they avoid the CL ban and sort that out they will run the Dippers close next year. If they are banned for two years and lose the likes of Aguero, KBD, Laporte and Sterling and cannot replace them, then I am not sure when they will be back.

Rob · Jun 26, 2020

Random Task said:
Liverpool face a whole new set of challenges next year. Rather than being among the pack chasing a supposedly unstoppable City team, which was certainly the case before the season kicked off, they're now the top dogs who everyone wants to beat. Their aging squad will be another year past their prime, and perhaps lacking the motivation for a repeat performance of the previous season. They won't retain the title.

Meanwhile, the PL's younger, talented squads from United and Chelsea will be another year along in their development, plus they both have the funds to make considerable squad upgrades where necessary. The United squad will have the added incentive of being desperate to stop Liverpool winning it again next season, and if they don't feel that way, Fergie will see to it that they do.

I’ve seen this thing about the age of the squad being posted a lot on here, but I don’t agree with it. Out of the best starting eleven, the oldest is Henderson who just turned 30.

As I already mentioned, I think the biggest problem is that Salah and Mane will both be away for a while mid season, and our current replacements simply aren’t good enough. We’ve been lucky this season in that none of the front three have been injured much. How we’ll cope without our two best attacking players at the same time is anybody’s guess, but I think it’s an issue we need to adress this transfer window if we want to win it again.

Chip Butty · Jun 26, 2020

With Liverpool having an average age of 25.3, younger than those of the top 5 rivals, you'd have to surmise that they will be around for some time.

Stacks · Jun 26, 2020

big rons sovereign said:
I can think of a few. Against us at OT is one, Ashley young standing and watching lallana walk past him to tap in.
Add to that, the goals disallowed against them for absolutely no reason, klopp not being sanctioned in the slightest for his behaviour, running into the pitch, slagging the refs after games etc, mourinho got 3 games for putting a toe on the pitch. No retrospective action against the likes of Robertson.
I'm not saying they don't deserve to win, but the table doesn't reflect the truth.
They've been shite for large swathes of the season but have benefitted from a lot of helping hands.

sounds like the Fergie days..... this is bad news

Fergie's gum · Jun 26, 2020

Always telling when you see the reaction of a team after winning something. Even though they had plenty of time to prepare for this moment, Klopp and players have been over emotional in their reaction. Fergie would refocus the teams target on the next achievement, immediately after the trophy celebration, which was key to the winning mentality of his teams. This reaction from Liverpool seems to me that they feel they have reached the promised land. Maybe wishful thinking on my part, however

VeevaVee · Jun 26, 2020

They won so many games through motivation alone and not good football. That can’t be a recipe for sustained success can it?

Buchan · Jun 26, 2020

Fergie's gum said:
Always telling when you see the reaction of a team after winning something. Even though they had plenty of time to prepare for this moment, Klopp and players have been over emotional in their reaction. Fergie would refocus the teams target on the next achievement, immediately after the trophy celebration, which was key to the winning mentality of his teams. This reaction from Liverpool seems to me that they feel they have reached the promised land. Maybe wishful thinking on my part, however

Genuinely haven’t seen any images or videos of the team celebrating as I’m avoiding it like the plague, but are they really?

Fergie's gum · Jun 26, 2020

Buchan said:
Genuinely haven’t seen any images or videos of the team celebrating as I’m avoiding it like the plague, but are they really?

Klopp and Henderson tearing up in their interviews. Imagine Fergie and Keane/Bruce doing that after winning a trophy

Buchan · Jun 26, 2020

VeevaVee said:
They won so many games through motivation alone and not good football. That can’t be a recipe for sustained success can it?

And the voodoo they place on every opposition attack before each game must be running low, too. Never in the history of the sport have players missed so many gilt-edged chances against a single team in a single season. It was incredible at times.

Buchan · Jun 26, 2020

Fergie's gum said:
Klopp and Henderson tearing up in their interviews. Imagine Fergie and Keane/Bruce doing that after winning a trophy

Christ.

That level of hysteria and hyperbole is unlike them... :rolleyes:

golden_blunder · Jun 26, 2020

GlasgowCeltic said:
So you’re saying it’s Chelsea or Utd for the title? Lampard and Ole to finish above Pep and Klopp?

No I’m saying all 4 are in the mixer next season.
Liverpool will still be favorites for the bookies but like I say how do they cover for Salah and mane being away?

TheNewEra · Jun 26, 2020

Chip Butty said:
With Liverpool having an average age of 25.3, younger than those of the top 5 rivals, you'd have to surmise that they will be around for some time.

The average age is a poor measure of 'around for some time', it's not as simple as taking an average.

The mean can be skewed by outliers for example:

For instance if you have Ronaldo in a team who is 35, and you have 2 players who are 23, you can't say 'the average age of the team is 27 so therefore they will be around for some time'.

If you have some younger players with lesser potential, but you have a few world class players who are older, it doesn't mean that the average age equates to success in that case, because the upper-bound of the team is the true deciding factor of the teams success.

Their top players are 28, not 25. There's also other factors that are uncertain such as how long Klopp says, injuries and so on.

Beachryan · Jun 26, 2020

It'll be interesting for sure. I for one thought that last season everything went too well for them, given xG, decisions and so forth, and that they'd revert to a mean this year. Obviously wrong. That home record is absolutely ridiculous, you almost can't help but win the league with Anfield being that tough.

They also play with a combination of intensity and quality that has teams fully beaten before kick off now. It's not just like we used to be at OT, when a team knew that if we scored first it was over. They're that plus a ridiculous press to deal with.

The only way they'll fade next season is if the 'magic' of seemingly doing more sprints, more frequently and at a higher rate than any other team starts to catchup with them. Or if those cause the muscle injuries it really should. But it is a young squad, clearly motivated.

This time last year I would have been apoplectic but with all that's happened the rivalry doesn't feel so important. Best team in the country wins league, deservedly and by a wide margin.

gajender · Jun 26, 2020

Fergie's gum said:
Always telling when you see the reaction of a team after winning something. Even though they had plenty of time to prepare for this moment, Klopp and players have been over emotional in their reaction. Fergie would refocus the teams target on the next achievement, immediately after the trophy celebration, which was key to the winning mentality of his teams. This reaction from Liverpool seems to me that they feel they have reached the promised land. Maybe wishful thinking on my part, however

Winning was second Nature to Sir Alex and you also have to factor in 30year wait for Liverpool to lift premier league it's quite natural for them to get emotional and atleast cherish the moment, despite proclamations that it's the start of their dominance nobody knows how long they might have to wait for another chance to lift the league trophy.

SouthPredators4 · Jun 26, 2020

Allison, Fabinho, Firmino, VVD, Robertson, Henderson , Mane and Salah have at least 3 years of their peak ahead of them, while TAA, Gomez are far from theirs. They have a solid foundation, with or without Klopp and will be title challengers for the medium term. As much as i hate to admit, i see them winning next year while City replaces a few of their senior players and overtake our title count before we win our 21st.

Paul_Scholes18 · Jun 26, 2020

It should be over next season I bloody hope. We need to make sure we stop them if noone else will.

Mb194dc · Jun 26, 2020

Depends on how long the leagues script writers keep them at the top?

The xg points table gives a more realistic view of their level.

https://understat.com/league/EPL

gajender · Jun 26, 2020

Mb194dc said:
Depends on how long the leagues script writers keep them at the top?

The xg points table gives a more realistic view of their level.

https://understat.com/league/EPL

So according to this City underlying stats are better than Liverpool and Chelsea as well United aren't that far away from Scouser's that doesn't seem right .

Random Task · Jun 26, 2020

Rob said:
I’ve seen this thing about the age of the squad being posted a lot on here, but I don’t agree with it. Out of the best starting eleven, the oldest is Henderson who just turned 30.

As I already mentioned, I think the biggest problem is that Salah and Mane will both be away for a while mid season, and our current replacements simply aren’t good enough. We’ve been lucky this season in that none of the front three have been injured much. How we’ll cope without our two best attacking players at the same time is anybody’s guess, but I think it’s an issue we need to adress this transfer window if we want to win it again.

You're one of the few scousers to face that truth, kudos for that.

Players between 28 and 30:

VVD - 28
Mane - 28
Firminho - 28
Salah - 28
Clyne - 29
Shaqiri - 29
Wijnaldum - 29
Matip - 29

Players 30 and above:

Lovren - 30
Henderson - 30
Milner - 34
Lallana- 32
Adrian - 33

The majority of those players form the core of your first-team, while the rest of them played enough to earn a medal.

That's an aging squad if you ask me.

padr81 · Jun 26, 2020

If we're not in League 2 it'll be over next April.

Seriously though, Chelsea came through were gonna dominate - Nope.
We came through with the Aguero moment and all that money, gonna dominate - Nope
Chelsea bounce back and bar the Mourinho meltdown season should have had 3 in a row, gonna dominate under Conte - Nope
Pep gets 198 points in 2 season, thats it City are gonna dominate forever - Nope
Liverpool win the CL and 1 PL in 2 years, gonna dominate - Nope

As successful and great as Sir Alex was even he couldn't turn the PL into what Serie A, Ligue 1 and La Liga have become. His genius was always staying with the 1 other at the top. He won a lot, he lost a few but he was always there. With the money in England total domination is impossible.

Stocar · Jun 26, 2020

golden_blunder said:
Liverpool will still be favorites for the bookies

I don't think they will, and people will again act like it's something surprising.

big rons sovereign · Jun 26, 2020

padr81 said:
If we're not in League 2 it'll be over next April.

Seriously though, Chelsea came through were gonna dominate - Nope.
We came through with the Aguero moment and all that money, gonna dominate - Nope
Chelsea bounce back and bar the Mourinho meltdown season should have had 3 in a row, gonna dominate under Conte - Nope
Pep gets 198 points in 2 season, thats it City are gonna dominate forever - Nope
Liverpool win the CL and 1 PL in 2 years, gonna dominate - Nope

As successful and great as Sir Alex was even he couldn't turn the PL into what Serie A, Ligue 1 and La Liga have become. His genius was always staying with the 1 other at the top. He won a lot, he lost a few but he was always there. With the money in England total domination is impossible.

And it's a good thing it has to be said.

padr81 · Jun 26, 2020

gajender said:
So according to this City underlying stats are better than Liverpool and Chelsea as well United aren't that far away from Scouser's that doesn't seem right .

We are and we aren't, the crazy openess to our game means we will always perform below our xG, xGA and whatever others stats they make up. So to used to Liverpool until Klopp binned the heavy metal football and learned to be more pragmatic in his approach.

Rob · Jun 26, 2020

Random Task said:
You're one of the few scousers to face that truth, kudos for that.

Players between 28 and 30:

VVD - 28
Mane - 28
Firminho - 28
Salah - 28
Clyne - 29
Shaqiri - 29
Wijnaldum - 29
Matip - 29

Players 30 and above:

Lovren - 30
Henderson - 30
Milner - 34
Lallana- 32
Adrian - 33

The majority of those players form the core of your first-team, while the rest of them played enough to earn a medal.

That's an aging squad if you ask me.

I think you’re reaching here. Alternatively, you could argue that our entire first XI is in their prime years.

Lovren, Lallana, Shaqiri and Clyne don’t play much anyway and are likely moving on.

From the starting XI, Henderson is the oldest having just turned 30 and the rest being somewhere between 20 and 29 or something. 28 is probably the best football age if there is such a thing.

Ronaldo's Mum Eh? · Jun 26, 2020

They will repeat next season. Their defence is incredible. Both fullbacks are just amazing and Van Dijk is a real leader. It sucks but you have to give credit where credit is due. That defence is rock solid and no one is going to break through that.

padr81 · Jun 26, 2020

big rons sovereign said:
And it's a good thing it has to be said.

Absolutely, Juve are about to sack a manager for winning the league and losing the cup final such is the one sided mess Serie A has become.
Bayern have 8 in a row, Juve will soon have 9 in a row. PSG 8 of the last 9, Barca or Real have won 16 or the last 17 (this season included). Celtic have is it 10 in a row?

The premier league has had 5 different winners in the last 10 seasons. There is no domination there.

Stocar · Jun 26, 2020

padr81 said:
We are and we aren't, the crazy openess to our game means we will always perform below our xG, xGA and whatever others stats they make up. So to used to Liverpool until Klopp binned the heavy metal football and learned to be more pragmatic in his approach.

I don't think it's down to tactics as such. Both teams didn't really change that much in the way they play, and people like to read too much into it anyway. Liverpool were super motivated, had all the momentum and everything going in their favour. City were complacent and lacked drive. That's the difference.

Andi Latte · Jun 26, 2020

Historically, Klopp teams have two, maybe 3 years at the top before the style of football starts taking its toll.

I think they will be a good team next season but nowhere near champions, before they start folding the year after, which presumably will be when Klopp leaves.

Without Klopp they are just a mediocre team honestly

Random Task · Jun 26, 2020

Rob said:
I think you’re reaching here. Alternatively, you could argue that our entire first XI is in their prime years.

Lovren, Lallana, Shaqiri and Clyne don’t play much anyway and are likely moving on.

From the starting XI, Henderson is the oldest having just turned 30 and the rest being somewhere between 20 and 29 or something. 28 is probably the best football age if there is such a thing.

Yeah, but the point is those players approaching 30 are more likely to regress than advance in their development. The reverse is true for both the United and Chelsea squads.

Said another way, United will close the gap on Liverpool if nature runs it's course correctly. The addition of Sancho, which is increasingly likely given to recent reports, will act to close that gap further still.

United will be champions next year.

gajender · Jun 26, 2020

padr81 said:
We are and we aren't, the crazy openess to our game means we will always perform below our xG, xGA and whatever others stats they make up. So to used to Liverpool until Klopp binned the heavy metal football and learned to be more pragmatic in his approach.

I think you'll be up there challenging Guardiola has shown he could get it's team up and running as long as he gets the right players , City this season left Guardiola bit short and injuries also played the part but I am assuming City would respond with big summer transfer wise.

RedStarUnited · Jun 26, 2020

Steve Bruce said:
How long will it last?

They've only just won it last night, surely it takes more than one Premier league title before we talk about dominance?

Across the last 2 seasons they have played 69 games and only lost 2, winning 59. They are on a pretty incredible run of league points right now. City only managed to keep up that kind of consistency for 2 seasons before it capitulated this year.

It all depends on who they sign and how well they manage to avoid injuries.

Stacks · Jun 26, 2020

crossy1686 said:
Liverpool have outperformed their xG for a solid season and if xG is worth anything, it states that at some point your luck will run out. Have a read here: https://statsbomb.com/2020/02/being-lucky-and-good-liverpool/

I also saw a detailed Reddit post about where they should finish this season (2nd) based on stats.

In a nutshell, Liverpool in quite a few games, have had half chances and scored them when they really shouldn't have statistically. The same applies for opponents missing solid chances against them. This kind of luck over 3 seasons would be unprecedented as it's already a freak show right now.

City have stayed true to their stats more or less.

3 seasons? I thought they were quite dominant last season and swept both the premier and champions league.

How long will Liverpool's dominance last?

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