How long will Liverpool's dominance last?

Klopper76

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Random Task said:
Yeah, but the point is those players approaching 30 are more likely to regress than advance in their development. The reverse is true for both the United and Chelsea squads.

Said another way, United will close the gap on Liverpool if nature runs it's course correctly. The addition of Sancho, which is increasingly likely given to recent reports, will act to close that gap further still.

United will be champions next year.
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Quoted for fun.

There will be a rebuild needed for us but I don't think the age issue will hit us next season. Players like Alisson (27), Van Dijk (28), Mane (28 & Salah (28) aren't going to become rubbish or start dropping off just because they're one year closer to 30. If they were 30/31 already then I'd be concerned. I actually think we can put another title challenge together next season with what we have (maybe a new CB to replace Lovren and a midfielder on the cheap is needed). I think we're more likely to retain it than United are to win it the 20/21 season.

The real issue we'll have to deal with is how teams evolve to deal with the way we play. Teams always find ways to set up against the champions within a year or two. It's why it's so hard to retain it and why Ferguson was the master. Klopp will hopefully learn from his time at Dortmund and see that he needs to make changes (perhaps adding a creative spark in midfield).

One thing that encourages me is that he's evolved the way Liverpool play during his time at the club. We're a different side in terms of style of play compared to two years ago.

For me, 21/22 is where a rebuild will be needed.
 

He'sRaldo

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Darshan Mody said:
SAF told many a times it's in cycle of 3 to 4 years. They have gone through 4 years with stability and good squad building with luck also favoring (no long term injuries to their key players). Now the hard part will come since the pressure will be on them to retain the title. Not many teams have been able to successfully defend the title. Manchester United, Manchester City and Chelsea have done this in this millenia and next year would show the squads mentality. We know Dortmund has won titles back to back but then it hasn't challenged Bayern after 2012-2013 and 2013-2014(financial capacity may also come here) and then tapered off. Dortmund was stripped with their key players from other teams in Europe. Liverpool has good financials but you never know the players would want different challenge elsewhere.

Also now he has to be ruthless and able to move along players who may be on the fringe. Jurgen Klopp being a good tactician is yet to show the adaptibility in his tactics when players are not at their peak. Considering Mainz and Dortmund as examples.

Jurgen Klopp himself has mentioned that maintaining SAF's consistency will be monumental task but I also would like to see if his Gegen pressing stays for long since football is being constantly evolving and whether the new players they buy are integrated well into the Squad( Kieta has not shown what was in Leipzig)
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I disagree with this, I think he's already adapted his tactics from his Dortmund days. He got rid of his old assistant as well, and if you've been listening to him the past few years he's been playing down the whole "heavy metal football" thing he used to swear by.

His adaptation is also one of the main reasons he's gained such consistency, since they're not as gung ho as before and thus are able to better manage fatigue and injuries.
 

fps

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Random Task said:
You're one of the few scousers to face that truth, kudos for that.

Players between 28 and 30:

VVD - 28
Mane - 28
Firminho - 28
Salah - 28
Clyne - 29
Shaqiri - 29
Wijnaldum - 29
Matip - 29

Players 30 and above:

Lovren - 30
Henderson - 30
Milner - 34
Lallana- 32
Adrian - 33

The majority of those players form the core of your first-team, while the rest of them played enough to earn a medal.

That's an aging squad if you ask me.
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No. Most players who are 28 or 29 are going to be exactly as good next season physically and the season after. Then you may see physical changes though they will have improved in other ways. The issue will be the mentality and how much the other teams improve.
 

padr81

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Stocar said:
I don't think it's down to tactics as such. Both teams didn't really change that much in the way they play, and people like to read too much into it anyway. Liverpool were super motivated, had all the momentum and everything going in their favour. City were complacent and lacked drive. That's the difference.
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Thats a big part but I think the Liverpool of the last 2 seasons are a very different animal in terms of approach to the Liverpool we saw playing heavy metal football. They no longer over commit, they are calm. They play to their strengths. They are by no means a defensive team, they're just no longer bombing everyone into the box and running around like crazed lunatics. They don't gegenpress nearly as much as they used to. Klopp has adapted his tactics brilliantly along with some great recruitment. That combined with motivation is why they have such high point tallies.

Our drop is a high percentage motivational, put Fernandinho is now 34, for all the shit I give Pep about not using him in midfield, he just might not have the legs for it. I expect Liverpool to be better or at least breathing down our necks next season if we are at our best, if we aren't we could well finish below United and Chelsea as well. We're also slow as feck in midfield, something United, Wolves, Liverpool and Chelsea ruthlessly exploited this season. A pacy player can legit run from his own half right through to our CB's without Fernandinho there to break him up.
 

Rob

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Random Task said:
Yeah, but the point is those players approaching 30 are more likely to regress than advance in their development. The reverse is true for both the United and Chelsea squads.

Said another way, United will close the gap on Liverpool if nature runs it's course correctly. The addition of Sancho, which is increasingly likely given to recent reports, will act to close that gap further still.

United will be champions next year.
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Oh, absolutely. You have an exciting team that’s only going to get better. I just disagree with the notion that players recently crowned European and PL champions are going be worse the following season because they are 28.

As I’ve said before, I think losing Mane and Salah for a couple of months will be the biggest problem. And of course prolonged injuries to any of them if we don’t add an attacking player.
 

RooneyLegend

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Andi Latte said:
Historically, Klopp teams have two, maybe 3 years at the top before the style of football starts taking its toll.

I think they will be a good team next season but nowhere near champions, before they start folding the year after, which presumably will be when Klopp leaves.

Without Klopp they are just a mediocre team honestly
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He kept losing Key players previously which isn't the case at Pool. They are going to be around for some time. We need to stand up to the challenge cause clearly you can't trust pseudo big clubs like City to handle their business.
 

OutlawGER

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Irrational. said:
3. Peripheral players stepping up at just the right time. In any other universe, players like Origi and Wijnaldum are not even top four quality - yet time and again they have stepped up at crucial times and got critical goals. The most unlikely fringe heroes. Understated players like Milner stepping in seamlessly and doing a brilliant job. The epitome of professionalism. Almost never missing a penalty.
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I'd put that on Klopp. He somehow has the ability to make specific players punching over their weight. He did the same at Dortmund, where a player like Großkreutz became world champion under Klopp and i'd argue without Klopp, he wouldn't even have made it into the Bundesliga. Heck, after Klopps department he wasn't even good enough for 2nd Bundesliga.
 

Fully Fledged

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Can we at least wait until a club wins back to back EPL titles before we start talking about dominance. It reminds me of the Arsenal unbeatables who quickly turned into beatables.
 

Random Task

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Rob said:
Oh, absolutely. You have an exciting team that’s only going to get better. I just disagree with the notion that players recently crowned European and PL champions are going be worse the following season because they are 28.

As I’ve said before, I think losing Mane and Salah for a couple of months will be the biggest problem. And of course prolonged injuries to any of them if we don’t add an attacking player.
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Klopper76 said:
There will be a rebuild needed for us but I don't think the age issue will hit us next season. Players like Alisson (27), Van Dijk (28), Mane (28 & Salah (28) aren't going to become rubbish or start dropping off just because they're one year closer to 30. If they were 30/31 already then I'd be concerned. I think we can put another title challenge together next season with what we have (maybe a new CB to replace Lovren and a midfielder on the cheap is needed). I think we're more likely to retain it than United are to win it the 20/21 season.
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The Liverpool squad is unlikely to worsen in terms of overall ability, no, but they certainly won't improve in that department either unless the player in question is a particularly rare breed. We begin to lose muscle mass and top speed at about 28, generally speaking, that's a scientific fact. The very best we can hope for at that point is to stagnate and even prolong the inevitable regression with intense training, an athlete's diet, sufficient motivation, and staying within mother nature's good graces. I once worked with a guy who could run the 100 meters in 10 seconds flat right up to the of 35, so it's possible but incredibly rare.

Salah, Mane, and Firmino are all 28. They have each hit the peak of physical fitness and progression and will not improve any further. Martial, Rashford, and Greenwood are 24, 22, and 18 by comparison and have plenty of room to improve all aspects of their game.

In summary, the United squad will improve, while the Liverpool squad will stagnate/begin to regress. We will close the gap.
 

Josh 76

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I can see them wining the title next season. There form in the league for the last 2 seasons has been amazing.

That sort of consistency doesn't just disappear unless there is a major rebuild or the manager goes. None of these are going to happen.

Also who is there to challenge them?
City look done and it's too soon for Chelsea or Utd to take them on over the whole season.

They have this invincibility about them that Utd had with Fergie. That is what scares me. Now that the players have won the CL and PL, the confidence they have is another blow for everyone.

Only hope is if they have a couple long term injuries to any of the full backs, Van Dyke or the front 3.
 

el3mel

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I highly doubt they'll be able to copy such season again. Every thing went great for them. Their performance wasn't that great but they kept on winning by goals in last minutes and stuff. It's not going to happen every season. It wasn't as a brilliant title performance wise as City when they got 100 points.
 

Klopper76

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Random Task said:
The Liverpool squad is unlikely to worsen in terms of overall ability, no, but they certainly won't improve in that department either unless the player in question is a particularly rare breed. We begin to lose muscle mass and top speed at about 28, generally speaking, that's a scientific fact. The very best we can hope for at that point is to stagnate and even prolong the inevitable regression with intense training, an athlete's diet, sufficient motivation, and staying within mother nature's good graces. I once worked with a guy who could run the 100 meters in 10 seconds flat right up to the of 35, so it's possible but incredibly rare.

Salah, Mane, and Firmino are all 28. They have each hit the peak of physical fitness and progression and will not improve any further. Martial, Rashford, and Greenwood are 24, 22, and 18 by comparison and have plenty of room to improve all aspects of their game.

In summary, the United squad will improve, while the Liverpool squad will stagnate/begin to regress. We will close the gap.
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I think that depends on Solskjaer and whether he can develop a consistency at United. So far he's done well in the games against sides further up the table but he seems to struggle against sides further down. You're in a good run of form like you were after he first came in so the question is whether this is a purple patch or the start of something better. There're other factors as well such as injuries, form and all that. Will Pogba still be there or go missing again/leave?

To assume United will close the gap simply because your front three/squad are younger than ours is a bold assumption imo. In a year from now Solskjaer might still be struggling with consistency. Not finishing in the CL places would hurt as well.

We'll see what happens. United finishing in the top four would be a big step forward. It was what started us on the road to the success we've had so far.

On a separate note our favorite thread is gone. :(
 

evil_geko

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I don't think there will ever be one team dominance like before, more and more clubs in the PL are becoming richer and stronger, competition is too strong. They will never replicate this season, too many things clicked together for them to win it like this.
 

Fussball13251

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If they can keep their players. If I were Pep Fabinho would be the next Fernandinho. Andy Roberson would be a solid buy aswell. And Mane.

I think Klopp once said he would leave if he won the league. If he leaves all of these players will be buyable.
 
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TheLord

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Teams have gone from being Champions to finishing outside the top-four. I think Liverpool will be good for one more season - at most. They may win the League again next year, which I cannot deny. But either Chelsea or City will topple them in 2022/23. I am not too convinced about United winning the 38-match League under the Glazers anytime soon.
I don’t know how the Newcastle saga will unfold. They may be competitive in 2-3 years, if the Saudis complete the club’s takeover.
 

romufc

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Josh 76 said:
That sort of consistency doesn't just disappear unless there is a major rebuild or the manager goes. None of these are going to happen.
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Literally what happened to City this season. 2 seasons of consistency and then this.
 

Fts 74

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Truth is no one knows if they will go on and dominate.

Recent history suggests its unlikely with city being the only team to win back to back title's since we did it.i for one won't be worrying about it.

They will start as favourites for sure, but I'll be staggered if injuries and a little bit of luck doesn't catch up with them next season, the run they've had is surely unsustainable.

I'm just hoping we're starting to get it together now, a couple of really good summer signings should certainly see us get a bit closer.
 

Speedy30

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romufc said:
Kompany?
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A great centre back full of experience. They didn't just lose his quality on the pitch, they lost it off the pitch too and whilst they have other great players, IMO, Kompany was the leader in that team.
 

Speedy30

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In reply to the OP, I don't think we'll dominate over the next few years. We'll challenge and possibly win other trophies but there's too many good teams to allow just one to dominate.
 

djembatheking

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There is no dominance yet, they have won one title like Leicester ffs. If they go on to win a few more then maybe we can talk about dominance. Carragher was bigging them up earlier this year to Keano making them out to be the greatest ever and Keano told him to wait until the end of the season to see how many trophies they have won, within weeks they were bombed out of the FA Cup and Atletico beat them home and away in the champions league so it is a bit early to be talking about dominance.
 

Josh 76

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romufc said:
Kompany?
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Laporte.
Sane
Kompany

Then you get the players were aging.
Fernindino
Silva

That's 5 key players.

Can't see Liverpool losing 5 key players next season or players who are aging.
 

Rooney1987

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I think part of this depends on the owners, I've read reports they've been cutting cost with the Red Sox. They could afford 50mil for Werner in this todays market isn't great and if they go 2 years without adding players to the squad they'll get caught.
 

romufc

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Josh 76 said:
Laporte.
Sane
Kompany

Then you get the players were aging.
Fernindino
Silva

That's 5 key players.

Can't see Liverpool losing 5 key players next season or players who are aging.
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So you have a magic ball that can predict injuries?

Silva was ageing from the season before.
Rodri was brought in to replace Fernandinho.

They have only lost Kompany, who actually didnt start games at the start of the season for them.
 

Speedy30

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Rooney1987 said:
I think part of this depends on the owners, I've read reports they've been cutting cost with the Red Sox. They could afford 50mil for Werner in this todays market isn't great and if they go 2 years without adding players to the squad they'll get caught.
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Our only notable addition since our 2018 summer window has been Minamino for £7.5m. I can't imagine that we won't look to improve but any reinforcements will have to be at the right price and Werner was not that as much as I would have loved to see him at Anfield.
 

Pexbo

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Call me optimistic but I genuinely don’t see them retaining it next season.

1. The pressure of being incumbent is much bigger.
2. I think this season took a lot out of them mentally.
3. I don’t see them having the same rub of the green. IN. EVERY. feckING. MATCH.
4. I think City and to a lesser extent ourselves and Chelsea will put a lot more pressure on them and make top 4 more competitive.
5. They need to spend and they don’t have the money.
 

Josh 76

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romufc said:
So you have a magic ball that can predict injuries?

Silva was ageing from the season before.
Rodri was brought in to replace Fernandinho.

They have only lost Kompany, who actually didnt start games at the start of the season for them.
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Read my original post.
I said the only thing that can stop them is a couple of injuries to their key players .

It was Rodri first season in PL. He wasn't a shadow of a player that Fernindino was.

Silva started a lot more games last season than he did this season.

Laporte and Sane out for the season was a major blow.

All I'm saying is City were a lot weaker than they were when they won the league. Can't see Liverpool being weaker next season in the way City were this season (unless of course they have injuries).
 

Speedy30

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Pexbo said:
Call me optimistic but I genuinely don’t see them retaining it next season.

1. The pressure of being incumbent is much bigger.
2. I think this season took a lot out of them mentally.
3. I don’t see them having the same rub of the green. IN. EVERY. feckING. MATCH.
4. I think City and to a lesser extent ourselves and Chelsea will put a lot more pressure on them and make top 4 more competitive.
5. They need to spend and they don’t have the money.
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1. Yes there will be pressure and we'll be the team that everyone wants to beat but the pressure from the supporters won't be there.
2. I'd say that last season took more out of us mentally. Having our best season ever and still coming up short would have seen a lot of teams wilt. We just resolved to get better and we did. We may not replicate the form next year but I don't think it will be our mentality that prevents it.
3. We fight like animals in every match and like Utd in the 90s, we got the rub of the green a lot because we were in the right place to get it.
4. I agree that City will be challenging again next season. They won't want to let us have the title again and the guard of honour on Thursday that they'll give, us will hurt them.
5. We certainly won't make any big money signings but with a manager like Klopp, it's not just the big money signings that have impressed. Robertson for £8m is a case in point.
 

Harry190

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To be fair, this would be their third season going into the 90s. It's practically impossible. They missed out last season but accumulated an enormous amount of points. Don't think they're as dynamic as last year either.
 

Klopper76

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Pexbo said:
Call me optimistic but I genuinely don’t see them retaining it next season.

1. The pressure of being incumbent is much bigger.
2. I think this season took a lot out of them mentally.
3. I don’t see them having the same rub of the green. IN. EVERY. feckING. MATCH.
4. I think City and to a lesser extent ourselves and Chelsea will put a lot more pressure on them and make top 4 more competitive.
5. They need to spend and they don’t have the money.
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Some of those points were made last season as well but I do think it's incredibly difficult to have three consistent seasons of 90+ points so I wouldn't be surprised if there was a drop off even if it's a small one.

I still expect this squad to be up there competing for the league next season but a long term injury to someone like Van Dijk would be a blow. We've been lucky with him so far.
 

Random Task

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Klopper76 said:
I think that depends on Solskjaer and whether he can develop a consistency at United. So far he's done well in the games against sides further up the table but he seems to struggle against sides further down. You're in a good run of form like you were after he first came in so the question is whether this is a purple patch or the start of something better. There're other factors as well such as injuries, form and all that. Will Pogba still be there or go missing again/leave?

To assume United will close the gap simply because your front three/squad are younger than ours is a bold assumption imo. In a year from now Solskjaer might still be struggling with consistency. Not finishing in the CL places would hurt as well.

We'll see what happens. United finishing in the top four would be a big step forward. It was what started us on the road to the success we've had so far.

On a separate note our favorite thread is gone. :(
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We struggled against heavily defensive sides most of the season due to a lack of creativity in midfield. Bruno came in and changed that drastically, transforming us into a genuine force to be reckoned with.

Pogba Bruno

Greenwood Martial Rashford
​
That front five is as strong as any other in the PL in my opinion. Throw in Sancho and another DM (although I'd be content with Fred, Mctom, and Matic for the time being) and we're challenging for the title next season.

PS: Yeah, I'll just have to find another thread to WUM you all in.
​
 

vodrake

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A couple of years back this place was full on suicidal about the Manchester City team that was going to dominate the premier league for an entire generation with no competition. 2 years later everyone's moved on to hyping the next team thats going to dominate for an entire generation, etc etc

Building a team that dominates for more than a couple of seasons at a time is pretty damn hard in the Premier League. Players get older, or lose motivation, managers get overconfident and don't adapt, other teams improve or work out strategies against them. They can stay around the top for a long time, but "dominance" is unlikely.
 
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