For me this is one of the reasons why Olly is saying the CAF is becoming an increasingly boring place to be. It's getting tiresome to almost pretty quickly being branded as a racist or hater if you step out line with the conventional culture on here. I wouldnt compare blacks to homosexuals in the first place. One is a sexual preference, the other is a skin colour. Yeah, I get it, if he had mentioned a game having 3 black main characters and it failed to make the game more interesting, it would certainly seem more racist.
Gaming The Last of Us Part II (PS4)
- Thread starter Neelu
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
Who's branded you a racist or hater?
No, you have it backwards. Olly left because of conversations like this where someone refuses to get what's being said and the need to play devil's advocate to someone who clearly is problematic.
The fact you are getting angry about a conversation about this says it all.
Well, I was more on about that I am not supposed to think that Yahtzee is funny and no one should. Well I do think he is funny. My brother in law is a homosexual jehovas witness christian who refuses to date a man because his God tells him that it's wrong. There is actually nothing more than I would like to for him to say feck it and date a man anyway. I am all for equal rights for gays or transgenders and all that, but I opted out of watching A movie called The Danish girl(im Danish btw) when I found out it was about the story of a transgender man because it simply doesn't interest me.
Why are you explaining yourself to me? I clearly stated I wasn't digging you out. I'm talking purely about that review.
And I also said it's fine to find people funny, but surely he's just as funny if he wasn't being bigotted in that review? I mean, again, WHY does he have to twice bring up those aspects as if they are a negative? And if you calm down and think with a level head, you'll get I wasn't comparing black people to homosexuals as you put it, I asked a very fair question as to why any of that makes any difference at all to the game or the story.
It's 2020, we are supposed to be more progressive and it's only fair questions are being asked and people are being called out. Joking about this is one thing, and there'll be people who'd want to call me out on that (as you know, jokes are bad now!), but actually going on about things like this as a negative is something entirely different. Do you see where I'm coming from there?
If we are going to talk about progressive gaming isn't a about time then that we looked at the problem that nearly all our beloved games and gaming franchises are inherently very violent? It's always centered around combat and killing either humans or other beings. Yet we all enjoy it anyway and the most of us don't walk away from it as violent sociopaths. But yeah you can rightly point it that Yahtzee comes off in that review as less progressive for mentioning the word lesbians twice.
He actually says "minority" the first time, and both mentions are negative.
But you are right, this is the exact kind of conversation Olly left because of. Just not in the way you seem to think.
So I'm going to end it there as it's going to continue to be circular.
Alright
Wow you've moved the goalposts repeatedly during all of this back and forth.
Last edited:
i don't have a problem with Ellie being gay or Abbie being one of those transgender things, it just ruins the game by Ellie being gay and Abbie being a trans thing, not cause they're gay or transfender just cause it like wasn't needed in the context of the thing and stuff but I do respect gays fully cause there's this one guy I work with who's gay and I always say hi to him when I see him.
Transgender things!
shit what are you? 80 years old!?Is a transfender for cars who want to be bikes?
He's taking the piss btw.Transgender things!
Is a transfender for cars who want to be bikes?
I got it
transfender genuinely made me laughAbby isn't even transgender anyway. It's highly likely a person would build up that kind of muscle in that kind of environment. Actually a refreshing depiction of a post-apocalypse person for once.
I already agreed with Redlambs to end it here to avoid a circular discussion.
no it's a transgender person who plays a guitar (fender).Transgender things!
Is a transfender for cars who want to be bikes?
It was actually a typo, and I saw it before I hit the reply button, but it seemed better to leave it there. I regret zilch.
Also I agree with with Redlambs said, annoyingly.
I always thought that Joel was the transfender with Sarah actually being Tommy's. It'll all come out in 3.
Spanner and Redlambs sitting in a tree.
Is too much agenda pushing for me!
Indeed, the reaction to the leaked scenes showed alot of crying gamer bro's & YouTuber's up on where they actually stand on these issues, because if you actually play the game you see the context on Abby's physique.This is where playing a game before you judge it comes in handy.
I saw a post somewhere where they argued Abby shouldn't have that physique and then outlined the likely post-apocolyptic diet, lack of protein and time required to get her pump on to back up their claims.
Was equally impressive and deranged.
Was equally impressive and deranged.
I mean they lived in a stadium and had chickens and cows.
Is there any truth to the claims that reviewers could only receive a copy of the game prior to the release on the condition they gave it a positive review? Is this a real thing in the gaming industry?
Reading this list and why those games were controversial is quite interesting really. I remember playing Postal as a young teenager and finding it entertaining that you could piss on people, then I would set them on fire and then piss on them again.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_controversial_video_games
alright just read about this game. Gotta admit this is pretty fecked up even though I don't mind complete political incorrectness in video games.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RapeLay
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_controversial_video_games
alright just read about this game. Gotta admit this is pretty fecked up even though I don't mind complete political incorrectness in video games.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RapeLay
Last edited:
Highly unlikely. Someone would've come out and said.
But I imagine there are plenty of reviewers who do keep developers sweet by giving positive reviews to stay on that free games, swag and junkets bandwagon. I don't know how you stay impartial when they fly you out somewhere for a weekend, put on food and booze, give you goodies and then you're supposed to review the game. I'd be giving 10s to everything!
Nah that's absolute bollocks. One of the first reviews I watched on embargo day was a very negative one. The same reviewer is currently playing Ghost of Tsushima, another PlayStation exclusive.
To be fair it was a bit odd the other day every reviewer even smaller ones coming out and showing that they playing Ghost of Tshushima.
Pretty much how it works. These guys aren't told outright, but they know where the food is.
It's not about the games and their content that's the big issue, it's how certain people react to certain aspects.
For example, in TLOU 2 people don't give a shit about violence, they don't give a shit there's no black characters. But add in a homosexual?
And no, that's not everyone. But it's some, it's too.many, and that clearly includes "reviewers" too...hence my point earlier. Games don't have to be politically correct, they don't have to be inclusive, but when they are why lose your shit over it? (Rhetorical btw)
Tbh I havn't seen many reviewers(I actually havn't seen any well known reviewers) lose their shit over the fact that 3 of the main character are non-heterosexual, nearly all the hate I can see towards the game is about the poor writing, poor story, poor characters, poor pacing and the fact that Joel is instantly killed off and that you have the play half of the game as Abby so you can explore that she is not any worse than Ellie. I don't actually agree with the hate, i still think its a very good game, but for one of the most hyped games ever it failed on the points where it's predesscor suceeded. The fact that pro homosexuality/transgender agendas are explored in this game is always going to be mentioned because the game made a point of doing so, but I havn't actually seen any actual reviewers hate it for that very reason
Okay Abby's dad is actually black in the first game.
Last edited:
Atleast use the fecking spoiler properly.
Then you clearly didn't understand the conversation earlier. As you DO know at least one reviewer who used "minorities" and "lesbian" as an excuse to hate on the game.
The fact you want to believe it was a joke, that's up to you (and again, since you are so sensitive about it I'm NOT saying I think any less of you for that dude, this is a conversation not an argument where I'm blaming you), but read the whole thing again. He uses minorities and the Lesbian comment at the end as negatives, not as jokes, as ways to explain why he thinks the story has suffered. Because he thinks they threw that stuff in to make things better. This guy knows his audience, he knows who is listening and those comments were for them. Now does that mean ALL his followers are like that? No. But at least be very aware of how this works.
But I know I shouldn't, I know I said I'd stop, but I will point out again: IF SEXUALITY ISN'T A BIG DEAL, WHY DOES IT NEED TO EVEN BE MENTIONED!?!? Why does the fact there are lesbians need to be brought up? Why does that matter over the fact there are straight men, there are straight women, there's an asian dude, there's murder, there's violence, there's animal cruelty and arson and torture...Do you get it yet? Why single out homosexuality! And why the feck should that be considered the taboo subject it's fine to "always be mentioned" as if it's some weird outlier?
This isn't some childish war on "omg! remember when we could just say stuff!", it isn't cancel fecking culture, it's about why gamer-bros think it's ok to single out certain people that fall into certain categories. What's the big deal anyway, especially when the game has bigger problems anyway like the AI which is anything but fecking dynamic
Last edited:
Another poster in the comment section posted this.Then you clearly didn't understand the conversation earlier. As you DO know at least one reviewer who used "minorities" and "lesbian" as an excuse to hate on the game.
The fact you want to believe it was a joke, that's up to you (and again, since you are so sensitive about it I'm NOT saying I think any less of you for that dude, this is a conversation not an argument where I'm blaming you), but read the whole thing again. He uses minorities and the Lesbian comment at the end as negatives, not as jokes, as ways to explain why he thinks the story has suffered. Because he thinks they threw that stuff in to make things better. This guy knows his audience, he knows who is listening and those comments were for them. Now does that mean ALL his followers are like that? No. But at least be very aware of how this works.
But I know I shouldn't, I know I said I'd stop, but I will point out again: IF SEXUALITY ISN'T A BIG DEAL, WHY DOES IT NEED TO EVEN BE MENTIONED!?!? Why does the fact there are lesbians need to be brought up? Why does that matter over the fact there are straight men, there are straight women, there's an asian dude, there's murder, there's violence, there's animal cruelty and arson and torture...Do you get it yet? Why single out homosexuality! And why the feck should that be considered the taboo subject it's fine to "always be mentioned"?
This isn't some childish war on "omg! remember when we could just say stuff!", it isn't cancel fecking culture, it's about why gamer-bros think it's ok to single out certain people that fall into certain categories. What's the big deal anyway, especially when the game has bigger problems anyway like the AI which is anything but fecking dynamic
It didn't come out of nowhere, he explained earlier how being gay doesn't make a character compelling. Whether you agree or not, he seems to be under the impression that they made Ellie a lesbian as a shortcut for developing a compelling character. The final line says that if you made a compelling character arc for mr. sniffle butts, you wouldn't "need" to make him a lesbian. You could, but you wouldn't have to.
Anyway if you familiar with Yahtzee he's negative about almost all games except with a few exceptions like Portal, Shadow of the collosses and Dark Souls. People mostly follow him because of his dark sense of humour.
I AM familiar with him, I read/listen to his reviews. And that quote, once again, makes my point even more relevant if you stopped to actually think about what I've written...
In any case, that changes absolutely nothing about anything I said. You can engage my points, or continue to play devils advocate. Either way, I'm not attacking you I'm merely trying to show you not everything is clear cut, not everything is an attack on humour or political correctness gone mad. Again, for the last time, if you take out both the mentions of "minorities" and "lesbians" the review could go the same way. That alone should tell you something.
The mirror gag in the museum was unsettling. Despite the amazing graphics, it's very easy to cross into uncanny valley.
Also, videogames are never going to be able to do sex right and they should stop trying.
Also, videogames are never going to be able to do sex right and they should stop trying.
Well yes I can agree with you that yahtzee can potentially come off as a slighy racist homophobic bigot and maybe he really is I don't know. The fact that reviewers bring up homosexuality and transgender in this game is quite obviously because apart from the revenge plot then the sufferings of the non-heterosexuals is clearly a theme in this game. In one of the last cut scenes in the ending, Ellie is scolded by a homophopic bigot(who later apologizes) and Lev is sentenced to death because she/he changes gender and his mother kills herself because of it(or how was it she died?). Not bringing it up would be a bit like not bringing up that Blue is warmest colour is about 2 lesbians. They were clearly trying to break new ground as I don't remember any AAA games or loved franchises featuring homosexual and transgender main characters.
Well reading that has spoiled it for me, but it's ok mate as I know it's part of our convo
But still, my point is standing strong. It's okay to bring this stuff up, it's right people talk about it all. But it has to be done in the right way, not mocking, not as if the game suffers from it. Themes of violence, sex, murder...anything are themes, and they are and should be explored. But where it all falls down is when people pick out certain aspects and act as if they are somehow worse than the others, or a stick to beat the game with. That shouldn't happen, especially not to real life groups of people fighting for representation and a fair voice.
Sorry mate, I thought you had completed the game.Well reading that has spoiled it for me, but it's ok mate as I know it's part of our convo
But still, my point is standing strong. It's okay to bring this stuff up, it's right people talk about it all. But it has to be done in the right way, not mocking, not as if the game suffers from it. Themes of violence, sex, murder...anything are themes, and they are and should be explored. But where it all falls down is when people pick out certain aspects and act as if they are somehow worse than the others, or a stick to beat the game with. That shouldn't happen, especially not to real life groups of people fighting for representation and a fair voice.
I guess I just don't look to video games for social/politcal/sexual/racial/ethical progressiveness or video game reviewers for that matter. I guess it depends on the nature of the game and motivation of the gamemakers. Like my favourite side game in The Yakuza games is the cabaret club where you are basically grooming your hostesses to be sex objects but that is nature of the game.
However with games like Muslim Massacre the motivation of the maker was clearly to incite hatred and violence against muslims and that is step too far.
It's cool brother, I know you didn't mean it.
And yeah, we don't tend to look into games for those things and I'm not against that at all. But when reviewers DO, then it's fair game to call them out on it no? As I've said over and over, you take that aspect out of the game and it still plays out the exact same way. So why bring it up, especially negatively?
All that's going to do is make developers think twice in the future, and for what? Because a few morons can't handle the fact that not everyone is like them and so want to claim "agenda pushing"? Nah, that's not how the world should be.
Well its one of the best reviewed games on the PS4 ever and currently the fasting ever selling PS4 game, so I don't really think the developers care what a few bigots say about the game. I think, I have said pretty much all I have to say on the topic.
I've got absolutely no idea what any of that has to do with what we are talking about. But I have tried, despite the confusing push back.
But yeah, I agree with you that you should end it there. I will here too.
Have completed a 2nd run through. I know there is a lot of criticism of the game out there but for me its one of the very best I have played. I love the fact its not what I was hoping for and that its very dark and has things happen in it that I hated. I know many wanted something a bit more fulfilling and with more resolution for some characters. I would have liked a little less Abby and a little more Ellie but a 2nd play through has made that less of a problem for me. Some of the criticism I have seen and read has been well made but some of it just seems like people throwing their toys out of the sandpit because they missed the whole point. I liked the way the story bounced all over the place, character to character and past and present. I think Im probably in the minority for really liking the game and now cant wait for whatever they dream up for a 3rd in the series.