Gaming The Last of Us Part II (PS4)

Gehrman · Jul 2, 2020

I was replying to this

"All that's going to do is make developers think twice in the future, and for what? Because a few morons can't handle the fact that not everyone is like them and so want to claim "agenda pushing"? Nah, that's not how the world should be."

I would say that since The Last Of Us 2 is one the best reviewed games ever on the PS4 and is the fasting selling PS4 game so far, a few bigot's remarks from some reviewers is not going to hold any developer back from making a game that includes homosexuals. And yes if you feel Yahtzee comes across a homophobic biggot in his review, you are free to call him out on it.

I would say based on this article though, he is probably not a stereotypist homophobe.

https://v1.escapistmagazine.com/art...n/8768-Roleplaying-Homosexual-in-Dragon-Age-2

Redlambs · Jul 2, 2020

Shamana said:
I was replying to this

"All that's going to do is make developers think twice in the future, and for what? Because a few morons can't handle the fact that not everyone is like them and so want to claim "agenda pushing"? Nah, that's not how the world should be."

I would say that since The Last Of Us 2 is one the best reviewed games ever on the PS4 and is the fasting selling PS4 game so far, a few bigot's remarks from some reviewers is not going to hold any developer back from making a game that includes homosexuals. And yes if you feel Yahtzee comes across a homophobic biggot in his review, you are free to call him out on it.

I would say based on this article though, he is probably not a stereotypist homophobe.

https://v1.escapistmagazine.com/art...n/8768-Roleplaying-Homosexual-in-Dragon-Age-2

It's a brick wall. It really is.

Sad thing is, you aren't on the side you think you are.

Gehrman · Jul 2, 2020

Redlambs said:
It's a brick wall. It really is.

Sad thing is, you aren't on the side you think you are.

Okay then

Redlambs · Jul 2, 2020

Shamana said:
Okay then

You simply cannot bring yourself to reply to my point properly can you? I've given you enough chances yet every time you just strengthen my point, a point you simply don't understand.

You want to know the sad little truth? It's that you have taken offense to my posts even though I've continually tried to give you the benefit of the doubt. I even ignored the whole "I know a gay person!" trope though I could have ripped you for that alone. The fact of the matter is if it looks like a zebra, sounds like a zebra and runs like a zebra...well you can just go ahead and think it's a zebra... and not a painted horse.

Again, I'm not the reason Olly left, people like you are. People who simply won't look at themselves and change, instead just push back on here because they somehow think hiding who they are and playing devils advocate makes their true feelings and thoughts go away.

All the best. And when I say that, I mean it. Because no matter your retort, I'm still honest in that I don't hold your outdated views against you.

Gehrman · Jul 2, 2020

Redlambs said:
You simply cannot bring yourself to reply to my point properly can you? I've given you enough chances yet every time you just strengthen my point, a point you simply don't understand.

You want to know the sad little truth? It's that you have taken offense to my posts even though I've continually tried to give you the benefit of the doubt. I even ignored the whole "I know a gay person!" trope though I could have ripped you for that alone. The fact of the matter is if it looks like a zebra, sounds like a zebra and runs like a zebra...well you can just go ahead and think it's a zebra... and not a painted horse.

Again, I'm not the reason Olly left, people like you are. People who simply won't look at themselves and change, instead just push back on here because they somehow think hiding who they are and playing devils advocate makes their true feelings and thoughts go away.

All the best. And when I say that, I mean it. Because no matter your retort, I'm still honest in that I don't hold your outdated views against you.

I simply don't take video games or video game comedians very seriously. I don't think really think you know a whole lot about how I relate to non-heterosexuals in my real life. I don't put a great deal of effort coming off as a holy internet keyboard warrior on a Manchester United football forum.

Shane88 · Jul 2, 2020

Redlambs said:
You simply cannot bring yourself to reply to my point properly can you? I've given you enough chances yet every time you just strengthen my point, a point you simply don't understand.

You want to know the sad little truth? It's that you have taken offense to my posts even though I've continually tried to give you the benefit of the doubt. I even ignored the whole "I know a gay person!" trope though I could have ripped you for that alone. The fact of the matter is if it looks like a zebra, sounds like a zebra and runs like a zebra...well you can just go ahead and think it's a zebra... and not a painted horse.

Again, I'm not the reason Olly left, people like you are. People who simply won't look at themselves and change, instead just push back on here because they somehow think hiding who they are and playing devils advocate makes their true feelings and thoughts go away.

All the best. And when I say that, I mean it. Because no matter your retort, I'm still honest in that I don't hold your outdated views against you.

That's the second time you've brought up Olly leaving. Why is it such a big deal?

I liked his posts but the truth is he had some warped view that this place is a hive of right wingers when that couldn't be further from the truth. Redcafe is very left-leaning but because maybe Olly continuously interacted with the relatively small amount of right wingers on here he suddenly thought this place was becoming Stormfront. That's the same for others, I've said this in the other thread but generally there are very few on here who lean to the right but lots of people disagree with them (fair enough, I do too) but because so many pile on, it makes it look they they have this huge presence on the forum when they really don't.

Olly is free to not enjoy this place and leave but I think his leaving shot of implying this place is going down a dark road of nasty views is totally wrong.

AaronRedDevil · Jul 2, 2020

Stack said:
Have completed a 2nd run through. I know there is a lot of criticism of the game out there but for me its one of the very best I have played. I love the fact its not what I was hoping for and that its very dark and has things happen in it that I hated. I know many wanted something a bit more fulfilling and with more resolution for some characters. I would have liked a little less Abby and a little more Ellie but a 2nd play through has made that less of a problem for me. Some of the criticism I have seen and read has been well made but some of it just seems like people throwing their toys out of the sandpit because they missed the whole point. I liked the way the story bounced all over the place, character to character and past and present. I think Im probably in the minority for really liking the game and now cant wait for whatever they dream up for a 3rd in the series.

You are most definitely not in the minority. I swear it looks like, even on here about 80% of the people that have played the game and have their own thoughts. Gave this game a great rating. Feels like most of the hate are from idiots who follow hate like sheep or opinions of certain YouTube reviewers. Feeding into the trend.

Even my friend who hates the agenda pushing sexuality crap. Hes only 8 hours in and hes loving it so far. If you dont like the game and it's just not doing it for you, that's completely fine. But I feel like most of the hate is influenced.

Redlambs · Jul 2, 2020

Shane88 said:
That's the second time you've brought up Olly leaving. Why is it such a big deal?

I liked his posts but the truth is he had some warped view that this place is a hive of right wingers when that couldn't be further from the truth. Redcafe is very left-leaning but because maybe Olly continuously interacted with the relatively small amount of right wingers on here he suddenly thought this place was becoming Stormfront. That's the same for others, I've said this in the other thread but generally there are very few on here who lean to the right but lots of people disagree with them (fair enough, I do too) but because so many pile on, it makes it look they they have this huge presence on the forum when they really don't.

Olly is free to not enjoy this place and leave but I think his leaving shot of implying this place is going down a dark road of nasty views is totally wrong.

Read further back. I didn't bring it up...someone else did to use it against me, in the exact opposite way. Hence why I'm trying to drive home he has got it wrong.

The rest of your post I agree with, take that as you will.

Shamana said:
I simply don't take video games or video game comedians very seriously. I don't think really think you know a whole lot about how I relate to non-heterosexuals in my real life. I don't put a great deal of effort coming off as a holy internet keyboard warrior on a Manchester United football forum.

A very typical response. A response further widening the goal post. You are nothing if not predictable.

I've tried to be friendly, but you are who you are no matter how much you want to pretend. We are done now, all the best.

Gehrman · Jul 2, 2020

Redlambs said:
Read further back. I didn't bring it up...someone else did to use it against me, in the exact opposite way. Hence why I'm trying to drive home he has got it wrong.

The rest of your post I agree with, take that as you will.

A very typical response. A response further widening the goal post. You are nothing if not predictable.

I've tried to be friendly, but you are who you are no matter how much you want to pretend. We are done now, all the best.

Yes I am absolutely sure that you of all people know excatly who I am better than anyone else.

Redlambs · Jul 2, 2020

Shamana said:
Yes I am absolutely sure that you of all people know excatly who I am better than anyone else.

You've made it it clear.

Again, I tried to be friendly and talk and you simply refuse to discuss my points, you've no answers to my questions. It's not worth either of our time to continue so once again, all the best.

Gehrman · Jul 2, 2020

Redlambs said:
You've made it it clear.

Again, I tried to be friendly and talk and you simply refuse to discuss my points, you've no answers to my questions. It's not worth either of our time to continue so once again, all the best.

It's getting off-topic anyway. Sleep well.

Redlambs · Jul 2, 2020

AaronRedDevil said:
You are most definitely not in the minority. I swear it looks like, even on here about 80% of the people that have played the game and have their own thoughts. Gave this game a great rating. Feels like most of the hate are from idiots who follow hate like sheep or opinions of certain YouTube reviewers. Feeding into the trend.

Even my friend who hates the agenda pushing sexuality crap. Hes only 8 hours in and hes loving it so far. If you dont like the game and it's just not doing it for you, that's completely fine. But I feel like most of the hate is influenced.

It is. Via the leaks, via lesser know reviews, via whatever... I have my own reasons for thinking it's not "omg! bestest game eva!" reasons I have already stated and can continue to back up.

Agendas aren't in those reasons though as I've seen none. Nothing. Zip. People who claim that are all the same, no matter how much they want to hide and pretend. Anyone who has actually played the game can see that.

One good thing about all the outrage to come from this, is it shows people for what they are. Those metacritic scores speak volumes :lol:

Redlambs · Jul 2, 2020

Shamana said:
It's getting off-topic anyway. Sleep well.

You too dude. Opinions, right?

Minkaro · Jul 3, 2020

Finished it the other day. Just going to shove everything into a spoiler.

After a few friends’ thoughts and the whole reviewbombing thing I was a bit apprehensive, but I was quite a way in, thinking “this isn’t THAT bad” - pissed about Joel becoming a tool to set the story off after Troy’s performance in 1, he deserved far more than that, but enjoying the gameplay and some of the story.

But then the Tommy/Ellie/Dina scene happened. How are you going to throw away that dream home, that baby, that Dina for revenge? If revenge is what you want, you’ve killed pretty much everyone Abby cares for, so let her deal with that.

Then to make me go through the end of the game only to decide “actually nah” before that I was like 7/10, after it’s more 5/10

It felt like TLOU as directed by George Lucas. It gets to the point where a scene opens on Ellie holding a rabbit she’s hunted, and you expect a flashback to Abby owning it as a pet.

I liked Abby, when she wasn’t murdering Joel. I kind of feel like this being two separate games would work better. Like just focus on Abby and the Seraphites. Don’t have Ellie and Joel involved, don’t even call it TLOU2. Make it a spinoff and flesh out that story. Because honestly Ellie ended up feeling kind of shoehorned in.

The best thing would be to leave it though, really. I don’t think this game needed to happen.

And quadruple feck that infected in the hospital.

ArmandTamzarian · Jul 3, 2020

I was thinking, I would love to play it again but the events going in chronological order (obviously with the flashbacks in their original place) with Ellies

going first then as Abby going through each day. I kind of get the feeling the momentum & pacing might feel a bit better that way instead of playing these huge chunks as either character, on the flip side it might feel a bit all over the place jumping characters that many times though.

Reditus · Jul 3, 2020

Stack said:
think Im probably in the minority for really liking the game and now cant wait for whatever they dream up for a 3rd in the series.

nope I think majority like or love the game. There are always some who go against the grain for one reason or another, just more vocal as it’s such a popular game. I’m well over half way through and it’s one of the finest games I have played so far. Love the story and the characters. Was always going to be hard to follow the 1st but they’ve done a superb job.

It is getting tiresome that various forms of entertainment are increasingly becoming a tool in the ongoing political war. From Last Jedi to Joker and now a video game.

Would be great if people could like and dislike something without an agenda behind it. For what it’s worth I really disliked Last Jedi and loved Joker and this game , so no idea what end of the spectrum that puts me on.

Lay · Jul 3, 2020

Shamana said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RapeLay

AaronRedDevil · Jul 3, 2020

Kinda wish they could do at least 2 mini dlc stories.

Tommys POV going after Abby but end up killing the other people in the gang

After the Ending of TLOU 2

But after the backlash from the eejits before the game even released. We might not get it.

AaronRedDevil · Jul 3, 2020

Lay said:

Erm....

el3mel · Jul 3, 2020

That was actually a nice ending. Stayed away from cliches just like the first game. No complaints about that, except 1 unanswered question.

Where did Dina and the baby go? Don't see any reason for them to leave.

Anyway a very good game. Not a masterpiece or 10/10 though. Since I liked the gameplay much more in the later half of it much more than the first half, I will give it about 7.5. Main downsides are the new ideas in stealth not really that new and poor pacing for the story in many parts, but overall a good game, no doubt about that.

Ainu · Jul 3, 2020

Why are people acting like Abby is some sort of freak of nature or looks like a bodybuilder?

el3mel said:
That was actually a nice ending. Stayed away from cliches just like the first game. No complaints about that, except 1 unanswered question.

Where did Dina and the baby go? Don't see any reason for them to leave.

Anyway a very good game. Not a masterpiece or 10/10 though. Since I liked the gameplay much more in the later half of it much more than the first half, I will give it about 7.5. Main downsides are the new ideas in stealth not really that new and poor pacing for the story in many parts, but overall a good game, no doubt about that.

I assume Dina just went back to Jackson with JJ. There was a letter from Jesse's parents I believe, where they asked them to come back to Jackson or said they'd always have a place there or something. Would make sense to not stay out there alone.

AaronRedDevil said:
Kinda wish they could do at least 2 mini dlc stories.

Tommys POV going after Abby but end up killing the other people in the gang

After the Ending of TLOU 2

But after the backlash from the eejits before the game even released. We might not get it.

One DLC I'd be interested in is

a mix between Ellie's journey to Santa Barbara at the end and where she goes after the ending. I'd love to see Ellie return to Jackson and attempt to repair her relationships with Tommy, Maria and Dina, assuming the latter went there. But it'd have to be a non-combat storyline for me, and a DLC would need combat sections. So they could split it like Left Behind, where we had mostly peaceful scenes with Ellie and Riley and combat sections with Ellie when she was protecting an injured Joel.

In her journal I think she said she crossed Las Vegas on her was to Santa Barbara. Imagine an abandoned Las Vegas full of infected with Naughty Dog's signature attention to detail. I'd be all over that.

el3mel · Jul 3, 2020

Ainu said:
Why are people acting like Abby is some sort of freak of nature or looks like a bodybuilder?

I assume Dina just went back to Jackson with JJ. There was a letter from Jesse's parents I believe, where they asked them to come back to Jackson or said they'd always have a place there or something. Would make sense to not stay out there alone.

One DLC I'd be interested in is

a mix between Ellie's journey to Santa Barbara at the end and where she goes after the ending. I'd love to see Ellie return to Jackson and attempt to repair her relationships with Tommy, Maria and Dina, assuming the latter went there. But it'd have to be a non-combat storyline for me, and a DLC would need combat sections. So they could split it like Left Behind, where we had mostly peaceful scenes with Ellie and Riley and combat sections with Ellie when she was protecting an injured Joel.

In her journal I think she said she crossed Las Vegas on her was to Santa Barbara. Imagine an abandoned Las Vegas full of infected with Naughty Dog's signature attention to detail. I'd be all over that.

Actually on second thought about ending now that I had time to think about it, I am starting to feel Ellie realizing that revenge is pointless and decided to forgive like what she did with Joel and didn't have time to as he died quickly after, this realization came very suddenly and wasn't prepared for enough. Like at the end of the fight she suddenly realized "enough of this I remembered Joel so no revenge!". The moral was good and how they chose to end it was good too as killing Abby would have a cliche, but just thinking about it now it was written pretty poorly just like the rest of the game. Happens abruptly and with no character development at all.

But this streams from the point I talked about earlier : the game decided to focus way, way too much on Abby and her journey, painting her as a real hero and caring about her development that they ended up throwing Ellie out of the window. They spent so much time developing Abby and forcing the player to care about her that they didn't have time to develop Ellie or progress her story, thus her development came abruptly.

The core of the story was decent but it's really poorly written with terrible pacing. They could have done a lot better with the idea but they kinda fecked it up.

Ainu · Jul 3, 2020

el3mel said:
Actually on second thought about ending now that I had time to think about it, I am starting to feel Ellie realizing that revenge is pointless and decided to forgive like what she did with Joel and didn't have time to as he died quickly after, this realization came very suddenly and wasn't prepared for enough. Like at the end of the fight she suddenly realized "enough of this I remembered Joel so no revenge!". The moral was good and how they chose to end it was good too as killing Abby would have a cliche, but just thinking about it now it was written pretty poorly just like the rest of the game. Happens abruptly and with no character development at all.

But this streams from the point I talked about earlier : the game decided to focus way, way too much on Abby and her journey, painting her as a real hero and caring about her development that they ended up throwing Ellie out of the window. They spent so much time developing Abby and forcing the player to care about her that they didn't have time to develop Ellie or progress her story, thus her development came abruptly.

The core of the story was decent but it's really poorly written with terrible pacing. They could have done a lot better with the idea but they kinda fecked it up.

I think you're focusing too much on having heroes and villains. I don't see Abby as a hero and I certainly don't see Ellie as a villain. I'd say I view them pretty much as I viewed Joel at the end of the first one, as deeply flawed and damaged people doing terrible things for reasons I can fully understand and empathize with.

It's interesting that you view Ellie's development as abrupt. To me it felt like it was coming for a long time. The first seeds of doubt were there when she killed Nora and I saw more of it after she killed Owen and Mel. She initially didn't want to leave the farm but felt like she had some sort of obligation to Joel to do so. Then when she finds Abby, if she really still wanted her revenge, it would've been easy. Instead she visibly struggles with it, cuts down Abby, let's her take Lev and almost takes a boat out of there. I think even before she started that fight, she didn't really want it anymore. The flashback isn't there as some sort of sudden realization but just for us as observer, to give it context.

At least that's my interpretation. I'm with you on the pacing, it's the only thing I'm not really satisfied with. Not the quality of the writing though, that was exceptional for the most part for me.

el3mel · Jul 3, 2020

Ainu said:
I think you're focusing too much on having heroes and villains. I don't see Abby as a hero and I certainly don't see Ellie as a villain. I'd say I view them pretty much as I viewed Joel at the end of the first one, as deeply flawed and damaged people doing terrible things for reasons I can fully understand and empathize with.

It's interesting that you view Ellie's development as abrupt. To me it felt like it was coming for a long time. The first seeds of doubt were there when she killed Nora and I saw more of it after she killed Owen and Mel. She initially didn't want to leave the farm but felt like she had some sort of obligation to Joel to do so. Then when she finds Abby, if she really still wanted her revenge, it would've been easy. Instead she visibly struggles with it, cuts down Abby, let's her take Lev and almost takes a boat out of there. I think even before she started that fight, she didn't really want it anymore. The flashback isn't there as some sort of sudden realization but just for us as observer, to give it context.

At least that's my interpretation. I'm with you on the pacing, it's the only thing I'm not really satisfied with. Not the quality of the writing though, that was exceptional for the most part for me.

Look I like having gray characters, but I don't like the game to force me to care about characters to that degree. The game did everything to force me to care about Abby and like her more than Ellie. Everything Abby did was great. Everything Ellie did was wrong up till the end. It was really weird, it's like they know players won't actually like Abby that much so let's try to force them to, let's give her a 10 hours gameplay time, let her save 2 of her enemies, let her let Dina and Ellie live AGAIN after she did in the beginning. This is just way too much for me. I won't be surprised if she ended up being the main protagonist of any 3rd game in the series.

Ellie had a PTSD during her stay in the form, she didn't overcome the shock of her seeing Joel die in her nightmares. She had a second thought immediately after Tommy told her. It was so obvious she didn't decide to throw her quest of revenge at this time but she was forcing herself to try and live peacefully, but once information she simply couldn't anymore, so to spend another journey in Santa Barbara to fight her, and once she was about to kill her, suddenly a vision of Joel came and decides "enough I'm forgiving her". Doesn't make sense when you remember the PTSD she was suffering from in the farm.

I didn't think about that yesterday but now I had time to digest it, I really think they didn't care about Ellie's development as a character to the same degree they cared about Abby's. Ellie should have got more time and encountered some events that would make her have second thoughts about this revenge quest of her imo.

The ending of the first game was much more planned and prepared for, and that's because the game focused its entire plot on developing Joel and Ellie's relationship. At the start he didn't care about her, but as they faced dangers together he started caring about her more and more, till he started considering her as a new daughter. When he went batshite crazy when cannibals group kidnapped her in this great interrogation scene, then comforted Ellie after she killed David, the game put on the principals of the ending incoming, that Joel won't let anyone hurt Ellie and will kill anyone regardless of the outcome, so him killing fireflies to rescue her just came perfectly fine when you think about it.

Now this game focused way too much on different aspects and different plot lines that imo they ended up not developing any of them as good as the main plot line of the first game. They didn't focus that much on developing Ellie's character and changing her views just like what they did with Joe's views on her in the first game, because they were busy developing Abby and showing her as another mirror to Joel in different ways. Yeah fine and all but that's not the main point imo.

Ainu · Jul 3, 2020

el3mel said:
Look I like having gray characters, but I don't like the game to force me to care about characters to that degree. The game did everything to force me to care about Abby and like her more than Ellie. Everything Abby did was great. Everything Ellie did was wrong up till the end. It was really weird, it's like they know players won't actually like Abby that much so let's try to force them to, let's give her a 10 hours gameplay time, let her save 2 of her enemies, let her let Dina and Ellie live AGAIN after she did in the beginning. This is just way too much for me. I won't be surprised if she ended up being the main protagonist of any 3rd game in the series.

Ellie had a PTSD during her stay in the form, she didn't overcome the shock of her seeing Joel die in her nightmares. She had a second thought immediately after Tommy told her. It was so obvious she didn't decide to throw her quest of revenge at this time but she was forcing herself to try and live peacefully, but once information she simply couldn't anymore, so to spend another journey in Santa Barbara to fight her, and once she was about to kill her, suddenly a vision of Joel came and decides "enough I'm forgiving her". Doesn't make sense when you remember the PTSD she was suffering from in the farm.

I didn't think about that yesterday but now I had time to digest it, I really think they didn't care about Ellie's development as a character to the same degree they cared about Abby's. Ellie should have got more time and encountered some events that would make her have second thoughts about this revenge quest of her imo.

The ending of the first game was much more planned and prepared for, and that's because the game focused its entire plot on developing Joel and Ellie's relationship. At the start he didn't care about her, but as they faced dangers together he started caring about her more and more, till he started considering her as a new daughter. When he went batshite crazy when cannibals group kidnapped her in this great interrogation scene, then comforted Ellie after she killed David, the game put on the principals of the ending incoming, that Joel won't let anyone hurt Ellie and will kill anyone regardless of the outcome, so him killing fireflies to rescue her just came perfectly fine when you think about it.

Now this game focused way too much on different aspects and different plot lines that imo they ended up not developing any of them as good as the main plot line of the first game. They didn't focus that much on developing Ellie's character and changing her views just like what they did with Joe's views on her in the first game, because they were busy developing Abby and showing her as another mirror to Joel in different ways. Yeah fine and all but that's not the main point imo.

I'm not going to try changing your mind; we're just going to go in circles. The only thing I'll add is you're overstating how "good" they made Abby look. Her sparing Ellie and Dina? That was a 100% Lev. If he wasn't there, she would've slit Dina's throat in front of Ellie - I mean, her reaction to Ellie saying she's pregnant tells you all you need to know, she was fully committed to that - and no doubt would've killed Ellie after that.

el3mel · Jul 3, 2020

Ainu said:
I'm not going to try changing your mind; we're just going to go in circles. The only thing I'll add is you're overstating how "good" they made Abby look. Her sparing Ellie and Dina? That was a 100% Lev. If he wasn't there, she would've slit Dina's throat in front of Ellie - I mean, her reaction to Ellie saying she's pregnant tells you all you need to know, she was fully committed to that - and no doubt would've killed Ellie after that.

This moment for me just how much they cared about developing her character more than Ellie's that's all. She killed Joel at the beginning of the game even though he saved her life but she became fully committed to Lev because he saved her life to the point of listening to him in such matter. My problem is they just cared about developing Abby much more more than Ellie over the course of the plot, not just the ending as I talked about this even before I finished the game. Ellie should have encountered life changing moments that make her have second thoughts about quest imo. That's all.

Balljy · Jul 3, 2020

el3mel said:
Look I like having gray characters, but I don't like the game to force me to care about characters to that degree. The game did everything to force me to care about Abby and like her more than Ellie. Everything Abby did was great. Everything Ellie did was wrong up till the end. It was really weird, it's like they know players won't actually like Abby that much so let's try to force them to, let's give her a 10 hours gameplay time, let her save 2 of her enemies, let her let Dina and Ellie live AGAIN after she did in the beginning. This is just way too much for me. I won't be surprised if she ended up being the main protagonist of any 3rd game in the series.

Ellie had a PTSD during her stay in the form, she didn't overcome the shock of her seeing Joel die in her nightmares. She had a second thought immediately after Tommy told her. It was so obvious she didn't decide to throw her quest of revenge at this time but she was forcing herself to try and live peacefully, but once information she simply couldn't anymore, so to spend another journey in Santa Barbara to fight her, and once she was about to kill her, suddenly a vision of Joel came and decides "enough I'm forgiving her". Doesn't make sense when you remember the PTSD she was suffering from in the farm.

I didn't think about that yesterday but now I had time to digest it, I really think they didn't care about Ellie's development as a character to the same degree they cared about Abby's. Ellie should have got more time and encountered some events that would make her have second thoughts about this revenge quest of her imo.

The ending of the first game was much more planned and prepared for, and that's because the game focused its entire plot on developing Joel and Ellie's relationship. At the start he didn't care about her, but as they faced dangers together he started caring about her more and more, till he started considering her as a new daughter. When he went batshite crazy when cannibals group kidnapped her in this great interrogation scene, then comforted Ellie after she killed David, the game put on the principals of the ending incoming, that Joel won't let anyone hurt Ellie and will kill anyone regardless of the outcome, so him killing fireflies to rescue her just came perfectly fine when you think about it.

Now this game focused way too much on different aspects and different plot lines that imo they ended up not developing any of them as good as the main plot line of the first game. They didn't focus that much on developing Ellie's character and changing her views just like what they did with Joe's views on her in the first game, because they were busy developing Abby and showing her as another mirror to Joel in different ways. Yeah fine and all but that's not the main point imo.

It's interesting how people see things in different ways, but I guess that is what stories do and people react to them and take them differently. I actually thought the entire story was about Ellie's journey from revenge into getting some sort of ability to put her past behind her. Abby's portion for me was just emphasising the fact there was no good or bad in the game, but just different people with conflicting interests and all with their own purpose to pursue. This showed us that what we were playing for was not necessarily right or wrong and that Ellie was getting conflicted because there was no easy answer.

I agree that the ending was not so focused as the first one but I personally thought that suited the story as Ellie had fought off her demons not by killing Abby, but by finally realising that killing Abby wouldn't give her what she wanted and closing the circle to avenge Joel's death. That in itself is quite layered so an "Ellie is happy now" ending would have been completely out of place.

If there is going to be a 3rd game I think it will have to focus on Ellie's immunity and I think could be set many years after this game as Ellie will obviously not be as action orientated due to her injuries.

Ainu · Jul 3, 2020

el3mel said:
This moment for me just how much they cared about developing her character more than Ellie's that's all. She killed Joel at the beginning of the game even though he saved her life but she became fully committed to Lev because he saved her life to the point of listening to him in such matter. My problem is they just cared about developing Abby much more more than Ellie over the course of the plot, not just the ending as I talked about this even before I finished the game. Ellie should have encountered life changing moments that make her have second thoughts about quest imo. That's all.

Well, she killed a pregnant woman while her own girlfriend was pregnant. These are the moments you have to question your life decisions. :lol:

el3mel · Jul 3, 2020

Balljy said:
It's interesting how people see things in different ways, but I guess that is what stories do and people react to them and take them differently. I actually thought the entire story was about Ellie's journey from revenge into getting some sort of ability to put her past behind her. Abby's portion for me was just emphasising the fact there was no good or bad in the game, but just different people with conflicting interests and all with their own purpose to pursue. This showed us that what we were playing for was not necessarily right or wrong and that Ellie was getting conflicted because there was no easy answer.

I agree that the ending was not so focused as the first one but I personally thought that suited the story as Ellie had fought off her demons not by killing Abby, but by finally realising that killing Abby wouldn't give her what she wanted and closing the circle to avenge Joel's death. That in itself is quite layered so an "Ellie is happy now" ending would have been completely out of place.

If there is going to be a 3rd game I think it will have to focus on Ellie's immunity and I think could be set many years after this game as Ellie will obviously not be as action orientated due to her injuries.

I don't have problem with how it ended actually, this ending is fine, and stayed away from cliches, but on second thought just thought it wasn't prepared for enough seeing her actions throughout the game.

Ainu said:
Well, she killed a pregnant woman while her own girlfriend was pregnant. These are the moments you have to question your life decisions.

The problem is they didn't show much of a reaction on her on her actions. She mercilessly killed defenseless Nora, Owen and pregnant Mel in cold, then she returned to theater and thought about that like for few seconds when she saw Dina, then was prepared to continue his quest like nothing happened ?

dannyrhinos89 · Jul 3, 2020

Just finished it,

A solid 8/10 from me.

Paxi · Jul 3, 2020

Organic Potatoes said:
I have an older one, but the current model looks amazing and somewhat future proof as these things go.

Regarding the game, spoilers are everywhere now. Be wary, my friends.

Ainu said:
I got the LG C9 65 inch just last week and I absolutely love it. When I put on Death Stranding it was a night and day difference from the 1080p SDR TV I had before. Needless to say The Last o Us 2 is glorious on it. It's a lot of money but well worth it in my opinion.

Garethw said:
Is there a risk of screen burn with the C9? My little boy watches a lot of CBeebies that has the logo in the corner. Am I better off keeping away from OLED?

This tv looks amazing though.

RedDevilRoshi said:
What a coincidence! I just purchased the LG C9 about 5 mins ago from John Lewis. Opted for the 55 inch as the bedroom is too small for anything bigger. Cannot wait till it arrives! Built for next gen too

Ainu said:
Yeah the burn-in risk is always there with OLEDs, but you'd have to pretty much have that logo on screen for like 1000+ hours. If you don't go overboard with brightness, keep all the anti-retention measures turned on and don't leave it on unattended for long periods, I don't think it should ever become an issue.

I've made it to Seattle now and that forest area just before it is simply breathtaking. I've genuinely never seen anything that looks this good in video games, and that includes on PC. How are they getting this out of a PS4 Pro? It feels like it shouldn't be possible.

I couldn’t quote anymore because whatever format for the iPhone wouldn’t allow me but to those that I did quote - guys; — this OLED thing is the fecking balls. Jaw dropping. I’ve come from a mid range LCD tv which are quite superb really but this is just otherworldly.

pratyush_utd · Jul 4, 2020

Sometimes people just forget its just a video game

Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date

She was Abby voice character if i am not wrong.

Solius · Jul 4, 2020

pratyush_utd said:
Sometimes people just forget its just a video game

Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date

She was Abby voice character if i am not wrong.

People are fecking insane man. All of those people need genuine mental help.

AaronRedDevil · Jul 4, 2020

pratyush_utd said:
Sometimes people just forget its just a video game

Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date

She was Abby voice character if i am not wrong.

What a bunch of dumb cnuts. It’s not like she wrote the bloody game. Wish there was a way to Find these scum and ban them from games for life. This is just a disgrace.

Amarsdd · Jul 4, 2020

pratyush_utd said:
Sometimes people just forget its just a video game

Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date

She was Abby voice character if i am not wrong.

I really don't understand what actually goes through these people's head. And tbh I'm not surprised either.
There's actually a couple of people arguing that Abby is a bad character and the writing is bad in the replies. Again, what is actually going on in their head?

Gehrman · Jul 4, 2020

pratyush_utd said:
Sometimes people just forget its just a video game

Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date

She was Abby voice character if i am not wrong.

I bet if we replaced Abby with this hot chick in the game we wouldnt have all the outrage.

Shane88 · Jul 4, 2020

This game is never-ending.

Gringo · Jul 4, 2020

Wait. Abbys character model looks eerily familiar to me for some reason. I thought it was based on an actress but Laura Bailey is completely different.

pratyush_utd · Jul 4, 2020

Gringo said:
Wait. Abbys character model looks eerily familiar to me for some reason. I thought it was based on an actress but Laura Bailey is completely different.

It's based on cross fit athelete Colleen Fotsch. Laura Bailey is voice actor.

Ainu · Jul 4, 2020

Just what the hell is wrong with some people? I can't wait for the day that people are truly held responsible for all the shit they get up to on the internet. Sending death threats on the internet has become so normalized. "I will find u and I will kill your kid for that just wait for that". There has to be genuine punishment for stuff like this.

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