Rank the English talent

Solius · Jul 7, 2020

There's no doubt a lot of talented young English players around at the moment. I was wondering how everyone would rank how good they think they'll become?

I want you to put them in the category you think they'll reach at the very peak of their career.

I've gone for 22 as the cut-off ages so players aged 22 make it, plus Henderson just because goalkeepers often develop a bit later. Added a few extra Utd players too because you know, it's a United forum.

https://tiermaker.com/create/english-talent-22-and-under-489239

Sort them at that link and post your results. You can upload using imgur

Solius · Jul 7, 2020

This is mine from having a quick go. The three in Poor doesn't necessarily mean I think they'll be crap but it's in relation to the rest of them.

duffer · Jul 7, 2020

Can't believe you didn't sneak Lingard in there. I'm not angry, just disappointed.

Ødegaard · Jul 7, 2020

I have bad eyesight, and I don't know all of those talents. Any easy way to provide names as well?

pacifictheme · Jul 7, 2020

I wouldn't have Rashford on the same level as sancho

Solius · Jul 7, 2020

Ødegaard said:
I have bad eyesight, and I don't know all of those talents. Any easy way to provide names as well?

The Brighton player is Tariq Lamptey. The two I have from Utd with the white backgrounds are Laird and Mengi. CHO and Tomori for Chelsea in my Good. Any others let me know.

Solius · Jul 7, 2020

nokillingmoths said:
I wouldn't have Rashford on the same level as sancho

Let's see yours then big boy.

pacifictheme · Jul 7, 2020

Nah can't be arsed but I assume you posted yours to start discussion.

Fosu-Mens · Jul 7, 2020

Dancfc · Jul 7, 2020

Based on their potential ceiling

I don't know who these 3 are (probably do but not in a split second) if one's Garner then world class.

Maluco · Jul 7, 2020

Solius said:
This is mine from having a quick go. The three in Poor doesn't necessarily mean I think they'll be crap but it's in relation to the rest of them.

It’s so hard to know when players are at such different stages of development, and even within that, will have bursts of progression at different times. Some of these won’t push on at all.

I think Saka looks a tier above all the other options in Excellent, although I would be tempted to move them all down rather than move him up. Possibly leaving James there too.

I would agree with most of the rest. I think Mount is the best of the Chelsea youngsters. They don’t look the same without him and few others on the list can say that, so maybe move him up too. Lamptey has looked excellent in recent games for Brighton, but not enough yet to put him on that tier.

I don’t see Abraham as a Chelsea player in 2-3 years, so might even move him down, but yeah, this is very close to what I would choose and an interesting discussion.

SirAnderson · Jul 7, 2020

I'm seeing this "generational" talent all over these days. Almost out of nowhere, everyone knows and can identify this. Boggles my mind really.
But hey, seems lots of people are able to see it. Would like to know, when did people realize what Ronaldo and Messi were one of a kind and generational talents for their time? When they were teenagers? Or more as they shared the top accolades year after year.

SirAnderson · Jul 7, 2020

duffer said:
Can't believe you didn't sneak Lingard in there. I'm not angry, just disappointed.

That would require him to actually have talent...poor or otherwise. :nervous:

Dancfc · Jul 7, 2020

SirAnderson said:
I'm seeing this "generational" talent all over these days. Almost out of nowhere, everyone knows and can identify this. Boggles my mind really.
But hey, seems lots of people are able to see it. Personally, when did people realize what Ronaldo and Messi were one of a kind and generational talents for their time? When they were teenagers? Or more as they shared the top accolades year after year.

I called Messi being as good as Maradona (or in that type of company) in 2007.

Think it's safe to say him and CR7 are a further level up from generational, think Mbappe may end up there aswell.

King Andow · Jul 7, 2020

Dancfc said:
Based on their potential ceiling

I don't know who these 3 are (probably do but not in a split second) if one's Garner then world class.

Hudson-Odoi?

Maluco · Jul 7, 2020

SirAnderson said:
I'm seeing this "generational" talent all over these days. Almost out of nowhere, everyone knows and can identify this. Boggles my mind really.
But hey, seems lots of people are able to see it. Would like to know, when did people realize what Ronaldo and Messi were one of a kind and generational talents for their time? When they were teenagers? Or more as they shared the top accolades year after year.

I am no expert, but I don’t think you have to be to identify that Greenwood is very special, for example.

I think just watching a few games he has started and remembering he is only 18 is enough.

Harry190 · Jul 7, 2020

How can you have more than one generational talent? Can't use words and then pretend they mean something other than they are.

Stacks · Jul 7, 2020

Solius said:
This is mine from having a quick go. The three in Poor doesn't necessarily mean I think they'll be crap but it's in relation to the rest of them.

Who is the City player and why is he above Jadon Sancho?

Revan · Jul 7, 2020

It is really hard for me to see the difference between World class and generational talent where you put many players in Generational Talent level.

I thought that Generational Talent is more reserved for players you think might end in top 3-5 in the world (for a few seasons), in which case I would put only Sancho and Greenwood there. Foden, Rashford and TAA in world class (TAA is already world class, actually together with Kane and Sterling, I would say he is the only WC English player right now), and the rest probably a bit lower.

DWelbz19 · Jul 7, 2020

Skills · Jul 7, 2020

SirAnderson said:
I'm seeing this "generational" talent all over these days. Almost out of nowhere, everyone knows and can identify this. Boggles my mind really.
But hey, seems lots of people are able to see it. Would like to know, when did people realize what Ronaldo and Messi were one of a kind and generational talents for their time? When they were teenagers? Or more as they shared the top accolades year after year.

Well shouldn't there by definition be only 1 generational talent. As in once in a generation type of player.

KirkDuyt · Jul 7, 2020

What is the definition of a generational talent? Messi? If so, none of the English talents fit that bill. Or are we speaking someone like Rooney, Robben, RVP? If so, Im still not convinced any of em will reach it. Sancho's looking promising of course and Greenwood is doing some nice things, but generational has lost its meaninga bit if you ask me.

Skills · Jul 7, 2020

Stacks said:
Who is the City player and why is he above Jadon Sancho?

Foden

DWelbz19 · Jul 7, 2020

Skills said:
Well shouldn't there by definition be only 1 generational talent. As in once in a generation type of player.

In each position, perhaps? A generational winger - Sancho and a generational right back - Trent.

duffer · Jul 7, 2020

Generational talent for me is Messi, Ronaldo, Zidane, Maradona, Cruyff, Best, etc.

None of those on the list are close at the moment.

RooneyLegend · Jul 7, 2020

Harry190 said:
How can you have more than one generational talent? Can't use words and then pretend they mean something other than they are.

Have to agree with this. I don't see any of them being the sort of footballers that have the extreme qualities needed to be a generational talent.

Revan · Jul 7, 2020

Harry190 said:
How can you have more than one generational talent? Can't use words and then pretend they mean something other than they are.

I don’t necessarily agree. Both Ronaldo and Messi are generational talents, as were Xavi and Iniesta (overlapping with these two), maybe Pirlo and Ibrahimovic too. Luis Ronaldo and Zidane were also generational talents despite playing at the same time, and you might add Henry and Ronaldinho (though his peak was short) there.

I guess it is not defined, but I always thought (by always I mean in the last few years when the term was invented) that generational talent is someone who is all-time great, who wins or challenges for multiple Ballon D’Ors and who is regarded as one of the best in the world. Which is different from World Class who are also great, but not on that category. For example, Ronaldo and Zidane were generational talents but RVN and Scholes were ‘only’ world class.

It is very hard for a defender/keeper to be generational talent IMO. Maybe I would put only Backenbauer, Baresi and Maldini in that level.

Crashoutcassius · Jul 7, 2020

SirAnderson said:
I'm seeing this "generational" talent all over these days. Almost out of nowhere, everyone knows and can identify this. Boggles my mind really.
But hey, seems lots of people are able to see it. Would like to know, when did people realize what Ronaldo and Messi were one of a kind and generational talents for their time? When they were teenagers? Or more as they shared the top accolades year after year.

joao felix was a generational talent last summer. many crazy ones before, eg renato sanches. ridiculous enough... personally I'm not even convinced mbappe is that

Solius · Jul 7, 2020

Harry190 said:
How can you have more than one generational talent? Can't use words and then pretend they mean something other than they are.

It’s not to be taken too seriously mate. Also have you heard of the golden generation? The class of 92 was also of similar vein.

RooneyLegend · Jul 7, 2020

Revan said:
I don’t necessarily agree. Both Ronaldo and Messi are generational talents, as were Xavi and Iniesta (overlapping with these two), maybe Pirlo and Ibrahimovic too. Luis Ronaldo and Zidane were also generational talents despite playing at the same time, and you might add Henry and Ronaldinho (though his peak was short) there.

I guess it is not defined, but I always thought (by always I mean in the last few years when the term was invented) that generational talent is someone who is all-time great, who wins or challenges for multiple Ballon D’Ors and who is regarded as one of the best in the world. Which is different from World Class who are also great, but not on that category. For example, Ronaldo and Zidane were generational talents but RVN and Scholes were ‘only’ world class.

Scholes, RVN, Xavi, Iniesta, Pirlo and Ibra were never generational footballers.

Dancfc · Jul 7, 2020

King Andow said:
Hudson-Odoi?

The star attacker of the most dominant academy side for decades.

RedRonaldo · Jul 7, 2020

None of them are generational talents. Maybe 2 or 3 of them can be defined as world class talent.

To me only players like Messi, Ronaldo, Mbappe, L.Ronaldo can be defined as generational talent. Those only happen once or twice in a decade.

Canucantona20 · Jul 7, 2020

This will be a fun thread to read in 5 years

Revan · Jul 7, 2020

RooneyLegend said:
Scholes, RVN, Xavi, Iniesta, Pirlo and Ibra were never generational footballers.

I thought that Iniesta and especially Xavi were near that. In the list of all-time great midfielders, Xavi happens to be quite often. Some might even say that he is the best registra of all time, and the most dominating midfielder ever.

I would say that Pirlo and Ibra (also Henry) were 'almost' generational talents (clearly better than the usual World Class players, but probably not as good as all time greats). Agree about RVN and Scholes, they were world-class players but nowhere near all-time greats.

So, my ranking for the last 25 years would be:

Generational talents: Messi, C. Ronaldo, Zidane, L. Ronaldo, Xavi
Top-tier world-class: Ronaldinho, Maldini, Henry, Iniesta, Ibrahimovic, Pirlo
Middle-tier world-class: Shevchenko, Nedved, Modric*, Buffon, Figo, Schmeichel, Cafu, Roberto Carlos, Ramos, Nesta
Bottom-tier world-class: Scholes, Giggs, Busquets, Deco, Ballack, Neuer, De Gea, VDS, Casillas, Terry, Rio, Vidic, Cole, Evra, Eto'o, Neymar, Bale, Rooney, Robben, Ribery, Schweinsteiger, Totti, Del Piero, RVN, RVP, Owen**, Suarez, Torres, Forlan, Sneijder, Pique, Puyol, Alves, Maicon, Batistuta, Lampard, Gerrard, Aguero, D. Silva, Hazard, Beckham

* Primarily based on his Ballon D'Or, but also considering longevity and UCL wins + WC2018.
** Because of his short longevity, he barely makes the list despite being a Ballon D'Or winner.

Of course, I might be missing many, and many players might be one tier higher/lower depending on the person who does the list.

Robbie Boy · Jul 7, 2020

DWelbz19 said:

This is probably the most likely outcome.

The holy trinity 68 · Jul 7, 2020

DWelbz19 said:

This is pretty identical to what I would choose. I just couldn’t be arsed to do my own.

altodevil · Jul 7, 2020

Greenwood top tier :houllier:

Solius · Jul 7, 2020

altodevil said:
Greenwood top tier

I know right. Everything he’s shown at just 18 definitely doesn’t at the very least point in that direction :houllier:

RooneyLegend · Jul 7, 2020

Revan said:
I thought that Iniesta and especially Xavi were near that. In the list of all-time great midfielders, Xavi happens to be quite often. Some might even say that he is the best registra of all time, and the most dominating midfielder ever.

I would say that Pirlo and Ibra (also Henry) were 'almost' generational talents (clearly better than the usual World Class players, but probably not as good as all time greats). Agree about RVN and Scholes, they were world-class players but nowhere near all-time greats.

So, my ranking for the last 25 years would be:

Generational talents: Messi, C. Ronaldo, Zidane, L. Ronaldo, Xavi
Top-tier world-class: Ronaldinho, Maldini, Henry, Iniesta, Ibrahimovic, Pirlo
Middle-tier world-class: Shevchenko, Nedved, Modric*, Buffon, Figo, Schmeichel, Cafu, Roberto Carlos, Ramos, Nesta
Bottom-tier world-class: Scholes, Giggs, Busquets, Deco, Ballack, Neuer, De Gea, VDS, Casillas, Terry, Rio, Vidic, Cole, Evra, Eto'o, Neymar, Bale, Rooney, Robben, Ribery, Schweinsteiger, Totti, Del Piero, RVN, RVP, Owen**, Suarez, Torres, Forlan, Sneijder, Pique, Puyol, Alves, Maicon, Batistuta, Lampard, Gerrard, Aguero, D. Silva, Hazard, Beckham

* Primarily based on his Ballon D'Or, but also considering longevity and UCL wins + WC2018.
** Because of his short longevity, he barely makes the list despite being a Ballon D'Or winner.

Of course, I might be missing many, and many players might be one tier higher/lower depending on the person who does the list.

Xavi is completely misplaced on that list. No way he belongs in that company. Those players are thrill a minute, and he was not. Gosh, how is he higher than Dinho? Didn't you see them in the same team? I also feel there's too many separations in your classing system. You have Batistuta two divisions below Henry and Ibra which doesn't make sense. Won't even get started on the players missing.

SirAnderson · Jul 7, 2020

Crashoutcassius said:
joao felix was a generational talent last summer. many crazy ones before, eg renato sanches. ridiculous enough... personally I'm not even convinced mbappe is that

Hence why I say, people just band the word "generational" talent on whoever the next shiny player is. I think it needs to be earned after they show a quality, that no one in their current generation possesses maybe. But seeing a definition now, it speaks also of potential not realized as well, so not sure how to deal with that. A former "potential" generational talented player? A bit silly if you ask me.

Rank the English talent

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