“We don’t need him we have”

Berbasbullet · Jul 11, 2020

spiriticon said:
I agree we need competition for the good of the club. But with competition you always have losers, and the loser is likely to be unhappy.

But what I am saying is that even if I wanted to have 30 world class players in my squad, natural human behaviour will probably limit that to around 11 players anyways..

Has anyone said they wanted 30 world class players?

Of course there are losers and that’s how you have the best players.

It reminds me a little of the posters who were against signing RVP because it would hold back Welbeck, what a ridiculous assertion that was (and I was one of them :lol:

)

Van Piorsing · Jul 11, 2020

432JuanMata said:
Anyway we have a seriously strong starting 11 at the moment but our backups are a lot less in quality mainly in the attacking sense. If we qualify for CL next year we will have 55+ games we need a strong squad.
We should try sign Sancho and play the front 3 who are in form and it can be rotated.

It's exactly what SAF would do. Cole, Yorke, Sheringham, Solskjaer. It worked then and it will work now in 4-3-3 system. No matter how many we conceded, we could always outscore opponent... and who knows this better than Ole himself.

We should get our super subs and start stuffing teams even more.

spiriticon · Jul 11, 2020

Berbasbullet said:
Has anyone said they wanted 30 world class players?

Of course there are losers and that’s how you have the best players.

It reminds me a little of the posters who were against signing RVP because it would hold back Welbeck, what a ridiculous assertion that was (and I was one of them )

So you're just gonna fob the losers off and say 'tough luck, be happy on the bench'..and you actually expect them to be happy about it?

Berbasbullet · Jul 11, 2020

Van Piorsing said:
It's exactly what SAF would do. Cole, Yorke, Sheringham, Solskjaer. It worked then and it will work now in 4-3-3 system. No matter how many we conceded, we could always outscore opponent... and who knows this better than Ole himself.

We should get our super subs and start stuffing teams even more.

Err don’t lie he only had Yorke and Cole and they played 55 games

Berbasbullet · Jul 11, 2020

spiriticon said:
So you're just gonna fob the losers off and say 'tough luck, be happy on the bench'..?

No there will be rotation like I said many times, as have loads of games. Jesus Christ :lol:

and chances to break into the team when bad form and injuries.

spiriticon · Jul 11, 2020

Berbasbullet said:
No there will be rotation like I said many times, as have loads of games. Jesus Christ

And so you're going to drop a player in form and doing well... just so rotation can happen? An expect them to be happy about it?

Berbasbullet · Jul 11, 2020

spiriticon said:
And so you're going to drop a player in form and doing well... just so rotation can happen? An expect them to be happy about it?

Neh you’re right I’ll run them into the ground make them play 50 games, league cup, fa cup, the lot.

spiriticon · Jul 11, 2020

Berbasbullet said:
Neh you’re right I’ll run them into the ground make them play 50 games, league cup, fa cup, the lot.

If they are world class they will want to play every game to pad their stats. You can be sure of that.

Bebestation · Jul 11, 2020

My problem about our squad is balance.

We cant have a squad and a front line that has 5 right footed players (Rashford, Sancho,Martial,James, Ighalo) and 2 left footed players in Greenwood and Chong.

I'm all for getting Sancho but we need atleast one more left footed players in my opinion to have the perfect squad depth of the front line.

City had right footers sterling, Jesus, Aguero, de bryune.
Left footers in bernado silva, mahrez, david silva, foden and Sane who just left.

Liverpool have right footers in mane, firmino, origi, minamino, Chamberlain
They have left footers in Salah, Shaqiri and Elliot. I can see why Klopp went for Shaqiri on a free even though he isnt anything to cry home about- and to be fair I wouldn't be surprised if they get another left footed player this year like Havertz if they have the money for it since they have been linked.

Berbasbullet · Jul 11, 2020

spiriticon said:
If they are world class they will want to play every game to pad their stats. You can be sure of that.

okay pal, I’m gonna step out now, but all I leave with is that I’m glad the the management will certainly see things my way, hence why are in for Sancho.

EwanI Ted · Jul 11, 2020

spiriticon said:
Anywhere where they'll start more games? Juventus? Barca? Atletico? Inter? Dortmund? Munich? Ajax? Who knows?

We should still get Sancho nevertheless, but I think it would be a big job to keep all 4 main players happy for more than a couple of years

You think a player sat on our bench would be in the first team with no competition for places at Barca, Bayern or Juve? Really?

Phil · Jul 11, 2020

I'm fairly certain our management does understand form, fatigue, injuries etc. That's the key thing.

spiriticon · Jul 11, 2020

Berbasbullet said:
okay pal, I’m gonna step out now, but all I leave with is that I’m glad the the management will certainly see things my way, hence why were in for Sancho.

There is no laughing. It is a problem. A really good problem, but a problem nonetheless.

I'm all in for Sancho too, hell I'd love it. But all I say is.. "Why would a La Masia bred, world class player like Thiago leave Barca?"

TrustInJanuzaj · Jul 11, 2020

Bebestation said:
My problem about our squad is balance.

We cant have a squad and a front line that has 5 right footed players (Rashford, Sancho,Martial,James, Ighalo) and 2 left footed players in Greenwood and Chong.

I'm all for getting Sancho but we need atleast one more left footed players in my opinion to have the perfect squad depth of the front line.

City had right footers sterling, Jesus, Aguero, de bryune.
Left footers in bernado silva, mahrez, david silva, foden and Sane who just left.

Liverpool have right footers in mane, firmino, origi, minamino, Chamberlain
They have left footers in Salah, Shaqiri and Elliot. I can see why Klopp went for Shaqiri on a free even though he isnt anything to cry home about- and to be fair I wouldn't be surprised if they get another left footed player this year like Havertz if they have the money for it since they have been linked.

Seems a slightly pointless argument, both Sancho and Martial are good on their left foot and I reckon Bruno is more than capable of scoring with his left as well. Then Greenwood as we all know is equally comfortable on his left and right foot. There is plenty of diversity across that frontline without needing a Robben.

spiriticon · Jul 11, 2020

EwanI Ted said:
You think a player sat on our bench would be in the first team with no competition for places at Barca, Bayern or Juve? Really?

They would, but it's just a question of where they are mostly likely to start. If its United, they'll stay. If it's somewhere else, they go. It's human nature right?

InfiniteBoredom · Jul 11, 2020

Lingard, James and Mata played more than 4000 PL minutes between them, this season.

I just don’t get this ‘we can’t keep 4 players happy with 3 positions’. We clearly can. Look at our 08 team, Ronaldo, Rooney, Tevez, Giggs, Park, Nani. The first 4 all played loads even though Ronaldo and Rooney were pretty much undroppable.

spiriticon · Jul 11, 2020

InfiniteBoredom said:
Lingard, James and Mata played more than 4000 PL minutes between them, this season.

I just don’t get this ‘we can’t keep 4 players happy with 3 positions’. We clearly can. Look at our 08 team, Ronaldo, Rooney, Tevez, Giggs, Park, Nani. The first 4 all played loads even though Ronaldo and Rooney were pretty much undroppable.

And this is where perception is perhaps a bit slightly skewed I think. And for good reason.

We must realise that we don't have the master man-manager that is Sir Alex anymore. He was really amazing in that aspect.

Is Ole on the same level of man-management? I don't know, but hey ho let's find out.

Strelok · Jul 11, 2020

spiriticon said:
And so you're going to drop a player in form and doing well... just so rotation can happen? An expect them to be happy about it?

Yes pretty much this.

SAF usually did the same. I remember reading somewhere that he would come to a player's room and tell him he'd need him not this match but the next match and asked him to be ready for it. It helped the player to better prepare for the next match and to feel that he's valued by the manager. He didn't get to play this match not because he's not good or train not hard enough but because he's needed for another match.

simplyared · Jul 11, 2020

Can't understand why this is even up for discussion. The way things are looking right now it would be Martial who would have to step down for Sancho imv. Maybe meaning Rashford would need to move to a more central roll. Or why not all four on the pitch if they're all playing well? I could see Rashford dropping further back as an example.

EwanI Ted · Jul 11, 2020

spiriticon said:
They would, but it's just a question of where they are mostly likely to start. If its United, they'll stay. If it's somewhere else, they go. It's human nature right?

You think we’re going to be so good that our bench is better than their first team?

Ish · Jul 11, 2020

We definitely need quality out wide - especially on the right and Sancho fits the bill. 4 players for 3 positions is great, there’ll be more than enough games for all. Especially considering if we don’t sign a AM quality backup for Bruno (Pogba can always be pushed up) - Sancho can be deployed there, or because the front 4 could all interchange, it would give OGS the possibility of going 4-4-2.

Theres a fine balance to be had with squad management and you can never have too many great players. You obviously run the risk of someone not being happy if they don’t get enough game time, but the flip side is competition can also be healthy. We’re currently one injury away from a serious drop in quality - especially in attack.

RedRob · Jul 11, 2020

People forget how much squad depth there was in the 1998-99 squad. Butt played as many league games as Scholes that season for instance. Blomquist started as many league games as Giggs. Stam was the only centre back to start more than 20 league games. People think that all the rotation took place up front, but it ran throughout the squad.

spiriticon · Jul 11, 2020

EwanI Ted said:
You think we’re going to be so good that our bench is better than their first team?

Any of Martial, Rashford, Greenwood and Sancho would probably get into the first team of most teams yup.

I think it is that damn good and I am excited if we do end up with all four. But my only doubt is how long can we keep them all at the club for before one of them starts to itch for 'something better'.

Let's face it, we are unlikely to win the league in the next couple of seasons so we really need them to stay and be part of the plan for the long term

EwanI Ted · Jul 11, 2020

spiriticon said:
Any of Martial, Rashford, Greenwood and Sancho would probably get into the first team of most teams yup.

I think it is that damn good and I am excited if we do end up with all four. But my only doubt is how long can we keep them all at the club for before one of them starts to itch for 'something better'.

Well that gave me a good laugh at least.

spiriticon · Jul 11, 2020

EwanI Ted said:
Well that gave me a good laugh at least.

Which part? Do you think our strikers are shit or do you really think players like Sancho will come to United all in love and will never leave again?

The romanticism for football is the bit that makes me laugh sometimes. Modern players are here until they stop getting played as much as they want, or they get more money elsewhere.

Globule · Jul 11, 2020

It's not that weird a concept. If you have 3 quality attacking players that seem to play well together you do have to question whether spending massive money on another top player that is expected to take one of their starting positions is wise. Rotation is necessary, but not all games are equal - the best players expect to start in the biggest matches.
Then there's the matter of the fee. It's not like we're an almost complete puzzle missing a vital piece. There are plenty of areas where we can strengthen. Using that money on a star player where we already have 3 potential star starters could feasibly be eating into funds that would help strengthen the squad in more areas.

That said, I would be ecstatic if Sancho came and, based on his playing career with us, I think Solskjaer will know how to keep all 4 of them happy.

onetwo3oclock4oclockrock · Jul 11, 2020

If we make it to the finals in EL and FA-cup, we will have played 65 official matches this season. Now, if we have 4 players rotating on 3 positions, each player given an equal amount of game time, they would all play 48 games. I would say that should be more than enough to keep them all happy.

Mourinhonista · Jul 11, 2020

Berbasbullet said:
No they won’t, the amount of mid week games we have will give them loads of chances, and there will be general rotation.

3/4 will start most of the games and the big games. My guess would be that one will be left unhappy and ask to leave. United really shouldn't be paying about 150 mil. for this scenario to happen, better do a loan deal for someone cheap to cover. Worked fine with Ighalo. Lingard, Pereira and Mata should all leave.

Globule · Jul 11, 2020

RedRob said:
People forget how much squad depth there was in the 1998-99 squad. Butt played as many league games as Scholes that season for instance. Blomquist started as many league games as Giggs. Stam was the only centre back to start more than 20 league games. People think that all the rotation took place up front, but it ran throughout the squad.

The key in this post is the names of the players you're mentioning. Blomqvist was not Giggs, so playing second fiddle is understandable. At the moment, Greenwood is only recently breaking into the team and is still young, so I think it will be okay for now, but if all 4 reach the heights we're hoping for, it's going to be a lot tougher to balance things out. Telling a star player that he's benched in a CL quarter final against Barcelona, but it's okay because he's going to start the next match against Stoke in the League Cup is not going to be enough.

EwanI Ted · Jul 11, 2020

spiriticon said:
Which part? Do you think our strikers are shit or do you really think players like Sancho will come to United all in love and will never leave despite being benched?

The bit where you said they would have a guaranteed first spot in any of the best teams in Europe and have no competition for their place.

onetwo3oclock4oclockrock · Jul 11, 2020

Globule said:
Blomqvist was not Giggs, so playing second fiddle is understandable. At the moment, Greenwood is only recently breaking into the team and is still young, so I think it will be okay for now, but if all 4 reach the heights we're hoping for, it's going to be a lot tougher to balance things out. Telling a star player that he's benched in a CL quarter final against Barcelona, but it's okay because he's going to start the next match against Stoke in the League Cup is not going to be enough.

Both Solskjær and Sheringham was benched in the 99 CL final. In the 08 CL-final Giggs himself was benched, with Ronaldo, Tevez and Rooney in the starter. We need top quality outside the starting 11 top be a contender for the big titles.

Annihilate Now! · Jul 11, 2020

onetwo3oclock4oclockrock said:
Both Solskjær and Sheringham was benched in the 99 CL final. In the 08 CL-final Giggs himself was benched, with Ronaldo, Tevez and Rooney in the starter. We need top quality outside the starting 11 top be a contender for the big titles.

Not necessarily... See: Liverpool.

Thought it obviously wouldn't hurt!

Berbasbullet · Jul 11, 2020

Mourinhonista said:
3/4 will start most of the games and the big games. My guess would be that one will be left unhappy and ask to leave. United really shouldn't be paying about 150 mil. for this scenario to happen, better do a loan deal for someone cheap to cover. Worked fine with Ighalo. Lingard, Pereira and Mata should all leave.

Jesus Christ this thread is a train wreck. Liverpool are an example of WHY you need depth, hence why they chucked away every competition but the prem and CL.

Mourinhonista · Jul 11, 2020

Berbasbullet said:
Jesus Christ this thread is a train wreck. Liverpool are an example of WHY you need depth, hence why they chucked away every competition but the prem and CL.

Those are the big ones, everyone at United would love to win them again, winning the FA Cup could lead to the manager being fired, it happened before...

#07 · Jul 11, 2020

Sancho would be a fantastic option, and we need more depth in case one of our forwards gets injured. However, Liverpool's cover for key players is Origi and Shaqiri. Good players yes but not £100m players. Squad harmony is vital to a title challenge. A big money player is going to want to start. After what happened when we brought Alexis in I would have thought people would be more cautious, especially with Mason banging them in from the inside right position.

Ramshock · Jul 11, 2020

You need two top class for every position

Infra-red · Jul 11, 2020

If Sancho is signed, he'll eat in to the playing time of all of Martial, Rashford and Greenwood. That's fine. Having four good players for three positions is nothing like overkill, indeed it is a prerequisite if we want to challenge for anything next season.

Handré1990 · Jul 11, 2020

meamth said:
I don't get it. 2 world class players in each positions? I struggled to maintain their happiness in FM, let alone real life!

See the benchmark team now, Liverpool doesn't have 2 world class players in each positions.. the team just work as a team, and that's good enough to win titles.

Signing Sancho is fine, but don't be surprised if Martial or Rashford left sometime in the near future.

Liverpool have barely had an injury to their 3 starting attackers, that’s not normal, in fact it’s very rare to see nowadays.

youmeletsfly · Jul 11, 2020

Greenwood, Martial and Rashford will have slumps, injuries, they don't really work together vs certain defensive setups and so on.
People not wanting a world class player here because it might hinder a good prospect are nuts, fanboys or batshit crazy.

The first simple answer is, more quality options are better than less options in general.
The second simple answer is : if Pep can keep 5-6 attacking players happy for 2 years in a row I think Ole should manage 4.

Verminator · Jul 11, 2020

I view getting Sancho as an economical option, as it means we also have cover in the AM role and forward line, so cheaper than buying a decent backup forward and decent backup AM.
I also expect that injuries will stretch us at some point, and quality could be maintained.
Also, rotation is a real requirement, and what we currently have in attack and AM is Lingard, James, Mata, Perreira. So I hope noone is advocating buying £30m'ish journeymen, to improve our bench!

Finally, if the worst fears of these posters is realised, and one player is left out so much that they choose to leave, then we will have lost the worst performer, and have the opportunity to improve.
If this player is so amazing that this would be a painful departure, then the fee that we will receive will be great compensation, and come in handy for buying their replacement.

“We don’t need him we have”

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