Our Defence - Has it actually been fixed?

The backline is the real reason we can't compete for a title yet. Okay or fine is not winning premier leagues. The goals we have conceeded are so poor. Setpieces have been bad this season. I don't mind conceeding but not comical goals/horrendous errors. We have trouble building from the back. Lindelof and Maguire are too slow and passing isn't good enough. De Gea can't play out from the back and delivery isn't good enough, not enough assists and quality.

If you want to play from the back you need speed, AWB has it but the rest lack it. Leadership is lacking, two CB's don't take enough responsibility. It's safety first and it forces mistakes.

It won’t be fixed until Lindelöf isn’t 1st choice

Red00012 said:

It won’t be fixed until Lindelöf isn’t 1st choice

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couldn’t be more right.

I was really hoping axel would take his place. I’m sure ole was thinking the same. But OGS just doesnt have any luck with injuries.

Outside of Jadon Sancho, finding a top class centreback partner for maguire is absolutely crucial

Just need to fix the bottle and find Lindelof who is stronger and can head the ball properly as well.

The defence and goalkeeper is far from fixed, it’s the first area we should address in the summer imo, you can’t consistently win matches if you can concede at any moment.

Another annoying thing is how our CBS always seem to head the ball back into danger. Opposition defenders seem to get it out of danger. Vidic was very good at getting it out.

Is it too late in the season to try a Bailey & Maguire partnership for a run of games?

It took Klopp 3 years to fix his defense. 1 year was never gonna happen.

Bojan11 said:

Another annoying thing is how our CBS always seem to head the ball back into danger. Opposition defenders seem to get it out of danger. Vidic was very good at getting it out.

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I don't think that applies to Maguire at all. That's his biggest strength in my view. Winning aerial battles and clearing danger in the air.

UNITED ACADEMY said:

It took Klopp 3 years to fix his defense. 1 year was never gonna happen.

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He fixed it by making three key signings.

We already made two and both of them haven’t set the world on fire.

Bojan11 said:

He fixed it by making three key signings.

We already made two and both of them haven’t set the world on fire.

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So 1 more then.

UNITED ACADEMY said:

It took Klopp 3 years to fix his defense. 1 year was never gonna happen.

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Maybe but this Klopp thing is quickly becoming similar to how everything was about Pep when Jose was here. We aren't trying to shadow our rival's weaknesses

Anyway Klopp was actually heavily mocked for not prioritising defenisve stability for as long as he did. Also I'm pretty sure Klopp bought VVD before 3 years. Think a year and a half or two then replaced Karius

m1tch said:

Is it too late in the season to try a Bailey & Maguire partnership for a run of games?

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Unless we go into a full-sabotage mode, Bailly should be on the bench.

The only defender I am comfortable with being in the team long term is AWB. Unfortunately we are stuck with Maguire but Lindelof and Shaw need to be upgraded on in the next 3 windows.

We've had a decent defence all season, arguably as good as anybody elses in the league, but it's still lacking obviously. Main thing we lack in is our defending from set pieces, which is just brutal and has cost us loads of times.

Since the restart I'd say Wan Bissaka has been our weakest defender tbh. Normally as good as anyone 1v1, he's been a bit sloppy defensively (but better going forward).

Hawks2008 said:

The only defender I am comfortable with being in the team long term is AWB. Unfortunately we are stuck with Maguire but Lindelof and Shaw need to be upgraded on in the next 3 windows.

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Really? I find that signing a bit bizarre to be fair. On one hand, Ole sells Smalling cause he cannot build, and then signs AWB who is pretty bad at it.

I mean, he is 21 and might get better, but he is by far our worst defender when it comes to passing the ball.

bosnian_red said:

We've had a decent defence all season, arguably as good as anybody elses in the league, but it's still lacking obviously. Main thing we lack in is our defending from set pieces, which is just brutal and has cost us loads of times.

Since the restart I'd say Wan Bissaka has been our weakest defender tbh. Normally as good as anyone 1v1, he's been a bit sloppy defensively (but better going forward).

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And it is weird. We have such a tall team, but somehow are bad at defending from set-pieces, and relatively useless at scoring from them.

Revan said:

And it is weird. We have such a tall team, but somehow are bad at defending from set-pieces, and relatively useless at scoring from them.

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Yup for sure. Though I feel like our attacking set pieces have gone up a few levels and are decent ever since Bruno came in, his delivery is very decent. Defensively though is still our biggest issue. Always a threat.

For some reason my post didn’t appear before - never mind!
Let’s look at it from the oppositions point of view. I like Maguire but the combo of Lindelof, Matic and him does not work!
You need someone who is aggressive and dynamic to compensate for the more tactical play of Matic and maguire

the centre of the spine behind the attack is simply not mobile, aggressive or reactive enough .
Pogba and Maguire would look 100 times better with someone who is combative and aggressive. Let’s remember Keane and Scholes and vidic and Ferdinand or Bruce and pallister.

how the feck can we be out played by Southampton?

makes no sense! I watched as they bunched up against us .. outnumbering is in areas as we kept a very basic but too rigid shape. We can score at will but their pressing intimidated our centre backs and instead of everyone coming back as a team and scrapping it out as a unit and keeping ball we were just clearing it like we would as boys

we were out thought and out fought.Highly disappointing

It was like one step forward 2 back. This is Manchester United not Colchester! Give me a break!

Revan said:

Really? I find that signing a bit bizarre to be fair. On one hand, Ole sells Smalling cause he cannot build, and then signs AWB who is pretty bad at it.

I mean, he is 21 and might get better, but he is by far our worst defender when it comes to passing the ball.

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Mate it’s an effing joke
Smalling was our best defender- we would never have conceded that goal if he was playing. He is better than Lindelof and any of the rest - AT DEFENDING
He and Maguire would be good - who would you rather play against??!

The amount of abuse Lindelof gets is insane, he had a great game, but still somehow some posters here blame him for the goal. Yes he lost his man AFTER the header, its easy for that to happen, if anything we should blame Matic for letting the Saints get that header.

Our defense is fine, we need a controling midfield its unacceptable that we end up clinging from our posts in the last minutes at home just because we subsitute two of our midfielders.

bosnian_red said:

We've had a decent defence all season, arguably as good as anybody elses in the league, but it's still lacking obviously. Main thing we lack in is our defending from set pieces, which is just brutal and has cost us loads of times.

Since the restart I'd say Wan Bissaka has been our weakest defender tbh. Normally as good as anyone 1v1, he's been a bit sloppy defensively (but better going forward).

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Majority of the team in the league have bad defense, using them as a benchmark won't take us far in Europe.

We can improve a lot on our defense, anyone who thinks our defense is decent is bonkers. They're too prone to making individual mistakes and conceding stupid goals. A good defense doesn't keep having brainfarts the entire season and concede basically a goal a game.

A DM and CB needs to be bought IMO who can both help us advance play against a high press and help us enforce the press going forward in attack. So'ton pressed high and cut off easy passing lanes which exposed a number of our defensive players on the ball and we couldn't get out which cut off the supply to some of our talented attackers.

Our backline is also suited to playing a deep defensive line due to their physical/technical limitations and can't be deployed like how Klopp deploys Van Dyke, Gomez etc in a high line on the half way line daring the opposition to beat them in a foot race which is a huge advantage. They're also better at beating the press from deeper due to having players who can dribble the ball at pace which breaks lines and beats the press. We can't do that with our current regulars. A CB who is adept at breaking lines and the press via a surging run needs to be targeted IMO.

And then to compound matters we have Matic as the DM who is good on the ball but what good is it being good on the ball if you're immobile and cumbersome on the ball when surrounded by quicker players. A DM who is adept at playing in a high-line and against the press should be targeted.

Until that is rectified we will keep on having the same issues IMO. We'll have a good defensive record but we'll be approaching games against quality teams like a Burnley team would.

Revan said:

Really? I find that signing a bit bizarre to be fair. On one hand, Ole sells Smalling cause he cannot build, and then signs AWB who is pretty bad at it.

I mean, he is 21 and might get better, but he is by far our worst defender when it comes to passing the ball.

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Yeah but i think he is so good a the defensive side that it makes up for it and he still has time to develop an adequate attacking game.

Shaw Lindelof and Maguire are just mediocre.

Hawks2008 said:

Yeah but i think he is so good a the defensive side that it makes up for it and he still has time to develop an adequate attacking game.

Shaw Lindelof and Maguire are just mediocre.

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Dunno, I think being able to build is very important nowadays. Actually I think that Shaw has easily been our best defender this season.

Revan said:

Dunno, I think being able to build is very important nowadays. Actually I think that Shaw has easily been our best defender this season.

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Shaw? Seriously? He's meah defending wise and he's totally useless when going forward.

Hawks2008 said:

The only defender I am comfortable with being in the team long term is AWB. Unfortunately we are stuck with Maguire but Lindelof and Shaw need to be upgraded on in the next 3 windows.

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Shaw has easily been our best defender for months now so I have no idea why some keep criticizing him.

Revan said:

Dunno, I think being able to build is very important nowadays. Actually I think that Shaw has easily been our best defender this season.

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Yeah fully agree, he is the only one I fully trust.

m1tch said:

Is it too late in the season to try a Bailey & Maguire partnership for a run of games?

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Bailey has pace but just about as poor as Lindelof on header. Positioning is worse IMO.

The defence is poorly thought. The Maguire-Lindelof-Matic trio are possibly the slowest DM and CBs in football. Which makes it vulnerable to quick counters. With AWB as RB we've got a top defensive fullback. However in such circumstances you'll expect an wingback on the right rear flank. Instead we've got Shaw whose basically useless (meah in defending, zero contribution when going forward etc). The fact that neither LVG nor Mou seem to understand the concept of a successful EPL CB didn't help. We're left with a pack of injury prone CBs whose shit in air and are therefore unsuited with United.

United need at least a CB that is fast and is good in air. I would go for Konate.

Revan said:

Dunno, I think being able to build is very important nowadays. Actually I think that Shaw has easily been our best defender this season.

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Cnaiür urs Skiötha said:

Shaw has easily been our best defender for months now so I have no idea why some keep criticizing him.

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Shaw is painfully average and does nothing to a high level. He isn't a defensive monster like AWB while also having 0 impact on the attacking side. Yeah AWB is no Dani Alves but i don't think he hinders us that much going forward either.

Shaw is ok, but he's just ok and this is his ceilling at this point. In the next 12 months I would be looking to replace him with either an incoming player or giving Williams the role if he continues to prove himself

Hawks2008 said:

Shaw is painfully average and does nothing to a high level. He isn't a defensive monster like AWB while also having 0 impact on the attacking side. Yeah AWB is no Dani Alves but i don't think he hinders us that much going forward either.

Shaw is ok, but he's just ok and this is his ceilling at this point. In the next 12 months I would be looking to replace him with either an incoming player or giving Williams the role if he continues to prove himself

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I have never seen a fullback that plays its as safe as Luke Shaw. You are correct in describing AWB as a defensive monster but he racked 4 assists this season. Shaw had 0 assists this season and 7 assists throughout his entire career. So he's meah defensive wise and a liability when going forward. In few words his contribution to the team is close to nil.

Hawks2008 said:

Shaw is painfully average and does nothing to a high level. He isn't a defensive monster like AWB while also having 0 impact on the attacking side. Yeah AWB is no Dani Alves but i don't think he hinders us that much going forward either.

Shaw is ok, but he's just ok and this is his ceilling at this point. In the next 12 months I would be looking to replace him with either an incoming player or giving Williams the role if he continues to prove himself

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He is a monster at tackling (one of the best I have seen), but I don't think he is a defensive monster. His positioning is meh (which is why he has to tackle so much), and is very weak in the air. Of course, he is very young so I have no doubt that he'll improve on that aspect. His attacking play (not necessarily the final pass which actually is decent), worries me a bit more.

I think that currently, Shaw is a quite better player.

SAFMUTD said:

The amount of abuse Lindelof gets is insane, he had a great game, but still somehow some posters here blame him for the goal. Yes he lost his man AFTER the header, its easy for that to happen, if anything we should blame Matic for letting the Saints get that header.

Our defense is fine, we need a controling midfield its unacceptable that we end up clinging from our posts in the last minutes at home just because we subsitute two of our midfielders.

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Agreed.

I don't rate Lindelof but he had a great game last match. That can't be denied.

Imo the injure of Williams fecked up our organisation against the corner. If Williams was not injured it's him who should mark the Sou #20 player not Lindelof. And Lindelof should have stayed in the middle. Anyway it was a great delivery from that cnut Ward Prowse. I fecking hate Sou now tbh. Bunch of cnut tried to kick our players all over the place and no one seemed to do a thing about that.

Maguire is not a defender, he's a DM.

There, I said it.

I actually like Maguire and Lindelof and some of the criticism is way over the top. That being said, I dont think they make the best partnership. They're both quite passive, which isn't a criticism, but not the best for a pairing. We really miss some aggression in the middle, to balance the passive nature of Maguire. I think this is why so many people are keen to see Bailly. Problem being with Bailly though is that he's actually pretty awful. He's car crash and no better than Phil Jones.

This issue is then compounded by Matic being just as passive too, which is where a DM in the ilk of Rice could really help. He gets tight and is aggressive in the tackle. He approaches the game, rather than waits for it to come to him. We also know that we probably need a pure DM to regularly play with Pogba and Bruno in the team together. So for me, to "fix" the defence we actually sign a midfielder. Or at least if we can only sign one, the priority should be DM over CB.

Is Tuanzebe injured?

There are matches when you need your defense to get you the points, last night was one of those matches and we crumbled under pressure. Yes Lindelof did not cover himself with glory, but for feck sake, Matic I think it was, must win that header at the first post. Absolutely criminal goal to concede.

Incredible that ddg barely gets a mention here. He really does live a charmed life on the back of some great saves he made a few years ago.

First of all, puts Pogba right in it with another stupid pass, leading to their first goal. If he can’t pass, just hoof it ffs.
Then, as per, he stands rooted to his line whilst a corner whistles past him in his 6 yard box. We’ve become so conditioned to this now, it barely rates a comment. Schmikes, VDS and dare I say Henderson would’ve come right out and punched it clear. Watched Sheff Utd vs Chelsea and this guy actually takes command of his immediate area and doesn’t leave it to his defenders to cop the flak every time some midget bundles the ball in, under his nose. The guy is terrified of leaving his line but who in their right mind would pay this fanny $350/400 Grand p/w to keep chucking it away? We’re stuck with him because Ed had one o& his moments and gave him a 15 year contract. Insane.

Denis' cuff said:

Incredible that ddg barely gets a mention here. He really does live a charmed life on the back of some great saves he made a few years ago.

First of all, puts Pogba right in it with another stupid pass, leading to their first goal. If he can’t pass, just hoof it ffs.
Then, as per, he stands rooted to his line whilst a corner whistles past him in his 6 yard box. We’ve become so conditioned to this now, it barely rates a comment. Schmikes, VDS and dare I say Henderson would’ve come right out and punched it clear. Watched Sheff Utd vs Chelsea and this guy actually takes command of his immediate area and doesn’t leave it to his defenders to cop the flak every time some midget bundles the ball in, under his nose. The guy is terrified of leaving his line but who in their right mind would pay this fanny $350/400 Grand p/w to keep chucking it away? We’re stuck with him because Ed had one o& his moments and gave him a 15 year contract. Insane.

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Do you really believe that? His probably the most criticised starter alongside Lindelof this season. The majority want Henderson back next season.