You guys are falling for Cold War 2.0 propaganda
Uighurs seek genocide charges against Beijing
- Thread starter esmufc07
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
None whatsoever.
Can i do anything about it ? No.
Can you do anything about it ? No.
Does our country want to do anything about it ? No.
Is the UN doing anything about it ? No.
Instead of saying this is wrong, that is wrong why don't you offer a solution ? Tell me what should the Uigher do.
Start thinking realistically rather than emotionally.
When muslim countries don't care then why should others ? The others wont do anything unless there is something in it for them.
Do Islamic countries themselves care?
It would be nice if the chinese citizens themselves starting caring about fundemental human rights.
Part of issues like this is obviously what gets reported and by whom. I've looked for hints, but didn't find much that casts serious doubt on what's commonly accepted about the situation in Xinjiang. (Details are always trickier, of course.) What is it you're thinking of?
Last edited:
I'm not talking about countries caring. Countries don't act on emotion and only care if there is any benefit in it for them. I'm talking about people and people don't care.
Wow what a silly response. You should be ashamed.
Keep on living in fairyland.
Come on, you must realize this comment on its own is inherently inadequate. The only person who has any idea what you're saying here is you, for the rest of us it could mean anything from "China is completely innocent" to "China is utterly guilty". Explain and/or back up your point.
(Alternative reply:
)I am implying what I said about people. For countries not to act is a different reason but people don't show much empathy or care. You have folks on here saying they should realistically give up their identity instead of fighting against it. People don't care specifically because of who it is that is impacted and I am talking about general population.
Keep on living with an agenda.
We must first start with some initial points because context and all that jazz. China is seen by the US and its lapdogs in "the west" as an economic and geopolitical rival. The US will do anything, and I mean anything, to ensure that their place on top of the perch is unchanged and unchallenged. It's not too controversial on here to say that the US has repeatedly lied time and time again to invoke foreign intervention on nations that they don't like, with every single case having disastrous consequences. One only needs to go back a few years: Syria, Libya, Iraq. I think we're all aware enough of those situations as they are today. It is also not too controversial to say that the US has armed and trained Islamic fundamentalist groups to advance their geopolitical agenda, which has been going on since at least the 70s. Hmm, I wonder how that all turned out these days?Come on, you must realize this comment on its own is inherently inadequate. The only person who has any idea what you're saying here is you, for the rest of us it could mean anything from "China is completely innocent" to "China is utterly guilty". Explain and/or back up your point.
(Alternative reply:
Now what the feck does this have to do with China? Well there is a pattern developing here: US sponsoring Islamic terrorists to destabilize countries; Islamic extremism in the Uyghur community; the controversy surrounding this to destabilize China — an economic and geopolitical rival of the US. Other than the issue with Islamic fundamentalism, what else does the Xinjiang region have that's so significant — being an important geographical piece of the Belt and Road Initiative. The trade implications of that are nonetheless significant and threatens the US' perch and influence over the world that it likes to have. We have our presumptive motive.
Now onto the Uyghur stuff. Let's take a look at a few of these "sources" that media outlets keep referencing.
Adrian Zenz
I'll defer to this copypasta
and this copypasta
to give you an idea of who this guy is.
Nation Endowment for Democracy (NED)
US-funded organization, created during the current Trump presidency in 2018, interfering in elections around the world. You can read more about them here.
Istiqlal TV
Another copypasta
Radio Free Asia
A propaganda arm established by the busy bees at the CIA.
Omir Bekali
A Kazakh Uyghur, he provided a witness testimony to his treatment by Chinese authorities. That's cool and all, but he and the media who cite him shows no bruising, no scars, and no corroboration of his story. The claims from his testimony are dubious at best with details like being taught the dangers of Islam even though there are millions of Muslims living peacefully and the fact that China has over 39,000 mosques — 25,000 in Xinjiang alone (up from 9000 in 1984).
Rushan Abbas
A supposed human rights "defender", she is a known CIA asset who worked in Guantanamo Bay, overseeing the illegal detainment and torture of Muslims. Should also be noted that she worked under George W. Bush, whose invasion of Iraq based on lies that led to up to over 1 million dead Iraqis, most of whom Muslim and civilian. Why would someone who cares so much about Muslims be implicated in all of this?
Various US "intelligence" sources
Ah yes, the trustworthy US intelligence services. We can trust them right? They would never lie to drag us into a conflict right? It's like the geopolitical equivalent of "my Manc mate said".
There are many more, surely, but these are the main ones I wanted to bring up. Now onto the supposed claims of genocide among others.
1.5 million Uyghurs detained
This claim came from Adrain Zenz, the crazy end-times evangelical guy. Quoted from this article:
Forced rape/abortion
When the fecking Sun reports this, you should already be skeptical. Seems strange when one is aware of this.
Nazi-like concentration camps
Say what you want about the source media network, but I'll take this over the anecdote of one guy (with no photo or video evidence of his torture) or some picture in the front of who knows what or some random picture of an empty house. And I'll damn well take this over what any US State Department goon has to say.
And let's not forget how the beacon of democracy and freedom, the US, handles Islamic extremism: invade countries on false pretenses, drone strike civilians, Guantanamo Bay, the Blackwater murders, forced removal of other nations' leaders, economic terrorism through sanctions that literally starve innocent people... the list goes on. Another reminder that the US also funds Islamic terrorism. What a use of taxpayer money? feck providing income to residents to combat COVID, feck giving healthcare.
Another copypasta
Also more related sources:
https://www.thenews.com.pk/latest/422970-pakistani-diplomat-narrates-visit-to-chinas-xinjiang
http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2019-07/13/c_138222183.htm
http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1159357.shtml
Say what you want about these ^^, I'm just offering alternatives.
Brainwashing with CPC propaganda
Another copypasta because effort
With the last part, I have conflicting thoughts about that. One hand, I can see it from the Chinese perspective where unity is extremely important for them to develop the nation more and improve the living conditions so that there is prosperity instead of despair that leads to extremism — the results over the past 70 years speak for themselves. On the other hand, I've grown up with similar concepts drummed into me since childhood with being in a military family and community and with the propaganda they teach in school like reciting the pledge of allegiance. I also accept that I view this from a western/American rebellious perspective.
Xinjiang being a 1984-esque dystopia
Found this from another source as I don't know Chinese. Not sure when this was exactly recorded, mind. Also I'm getting unexpected ads even though I have a built-in adblock on this browser. Make of this what you will.
"Crack down" of Uyghur language or whatever ridiculous claim associated with the language
Kind of odd if there is this notion that the language is banned or that it is restricted when the official language of the Xinjiang province is, you guessed it, Uyghur. That also makes it a governmental language. How exactly is it that the government can both “crack down” on Uyghur language speakers and also use the Uyghur language?
Banning of beards
This should be obvious by now that this claim is complete bullshit.
"Crack down" or banning of practicing Islam
Also a great cooking channel if you're into that
There are many more to discuss but I'm leaving it at that. The US who are leading this racist campaign against China should maybe look at their own wrongdoings, with the rest of the west joining in on the reflection.
@Florida Man if you are in any way suggesting this is just U.S propaganda against China then I wouldnt be surprised if youre a flat earther as well.
There is a girl at my work who escaped that region and can never go back. The rest of her family is stranded and they hardly have any contact.
She says she didnt even know what normal life was and assumed having government control your life was normal.
The situation is worse than whats reported but if you wanna play conspiracy theories go for it.
There is a girl at my work who escaped that region and can never go back. The rest of her family is stranded and they hardly have any contact.
She says she didnt even know what normal life was and assumed having government control your life was normal.
The situation is worse than whats reported but if you wanna play conspiracy theories go for it.
Thanks for taking the time to put that together, very interesting. I hear a lot on social media about China’s practices in that region but the sources always seem very dubious (as you point out, Zenz is often cited and he has zero credibility), and the claims so sensational your instinct is to doubt their veracity anyway. I have no doubts the Chinese government is capable of committing atrocities and human rights abuses, and I’m still unsure what the reality of the situation is in Xinjiang. I am 100% sure that the worst thing to do right now would be to swallow Western media claims about China without further investigation though.
Cue genocide of tibetans was just a media hoax.
Then its incumbent upon China to let the media in for an unbiased inspection. If they remain secretive of their activities we are perfectly within our rights to assume the worst.
Ignoring the conspiratorial nonsense, whataboutism, wilful negligence and lack of care fettered throughout that post, which in a hopeful reading is perhaps due to China’s successful obfuscation and/or your perceived geographical/ideological/social distance from where this is happening, that part is particularly disturbing (“the results over the past 70 years speak for themselves”). I will give the benefit of the doubt you didn’t mean that in the way it initially came across because as someone who has friends who have suffered greatly as a direct consequence, the results came at a cost of a great deal of suffering.
The West has achieved a lot at a cost to many others and this should be condemned (by those living here and abroad) but the same must be applied to others. If there is even a slight indication something like this is happening in China, or anywhere else then a full investigation should be welcomed by the alleged perpetrators. I hope that it is not happening, and that this is a Western hoax.
This politicisation, polarisation and side taking is so harmful, and so tiring. Of course the US are opportunistic parasites and are using this and exaggerating everything they can but come on, they’re people (the Uyghurs), they at least deserve to be heard and the situation looked into by unbiased, outside sources. Right now, the Uyghurs should be the focus, not the bullshite spewed by the US and the CCP.
Last edited:
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
If you really want another point of view, you may want to know how Chinese media (i.e. CCP propaganda) describe these events. They claim all Uighurs are terrorists and they send them all to so-called re-education camps, which are basically brainwashing campaigns. Here's one of the promotion videos if you are interested.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/23/fashion/uighur-forced-labor-cotton-fashion.html
So many organizations falling for cold war propaganda, @Florida Man ?
So many organizations falling for cold war propaganda, @Florida Man ?
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
People of Tibet have already faced this in and nothing has happened for decades. Sikhs of Afghanistan have faced this and nothing has changed for them. Yazidis have faced this and nothing has changed for them. Same goes for Kurds, Yemen , Libya and countless other ethnic population. I dont think Uighurs will get any respite because no one actually cares. China is way too powerful.
Funnily, I only had to read and watch US media to convince myself that this is indeed a new Cold War.Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
^^former Colin Powell Chief of Staff, Lawrence Wilkinson
I love how the USA is getting on their high horse on this one. After decades and decades of US and Western foreign policy that essentially aimed to Westernise the entire planet they decide that what China is doing are abhorrent human rights injustices. Its a bit like Hitler telling you not to make fun of Jewish people.
Well Trump told Xi that sending the uyghurs into concentration camp is bloody great idea and that he should keep doing it.
So you would rather that US citizens do not speak out about it?
What are you talking about? Much of this thread has been about why other powers, in particular the US, haven’t done anything. We are more concerned with Hong Kong and the South China Sea.
Nothing against US citizens having an opinion on anything which is why I was carful to include the West in my comment, round it nicely. It would be good if people werent so easily swayed by propaganda, that would be very helpful.
So what China isn't doing isn't abhorrent human rights injustices?
Anyway my grandfather was forced to watched his family friends being excuted by Mao zedongs soldiers for being christian during the cultural revolution before he and my father were thrown unto the streets in India, so I didn't grow up with great sympathy for communist China, Maoism or communism.
How Turkey is sending Muslim Uighurs back to China without breaking its promise
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...-uighurs-back-china-without-breaking-promise/
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...-uighurs-back-china-without-breaking-promise/
This might be an interesting read on the topic
https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/07/24/the-lethal-folly-of-humanitarian-interventionism/
Amazing video.
None of the articles in NYT or John Oliver's video really address the issue in depth.
The US have been doing something about it in the form of sponsoring terrorism to destabilize Xinjiang, and to a greater extent, China. Also doing something about it in the way you’re implying would imply that the US actually care about Muslims, which if Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine, Libya, Syria, and Yemen are anything to go by...
It’s not by accident.
The ones being sent back are the ones that are truly brainwashed (ISIS) not the regular people. People who believe that they're waging a holy war by blowing themselves up.
Are you sure that you're replying on this article and not the one about Turkey posted by another?
My bad - I meant to reply to the Telegraph article.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...-uighurs-back-china-without-breaking-promise/