Does Ole have it in him to drop De Gea for the last 2 PL games?

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Excellent last post there @SteveW

And @BenitoSTARR get over yourself man, I’m not blaming DDG for our latest defeat and nor are many others, he was at fault for his shite keeping though and his consistent calamity James-esque 2 years.

You wouldn’t hear me say a bad word about De Gea even 1 year + into this slump because he wowed me for years, but now it’s beyond a joke, if he’s not throwing a ball into his own net at Vicarage Road, he’s playing a 1-2 with an Everton striker at Goodison, or letting Messi score with the weakest shot of his entire career, else letting Mount beat him with an even weaker shot.

It’s come to a point where I’m fully expecting De Gea to put us in the shit, and I would trust Romero much more for a couple of games where his confidence isn’t completely shot.

What I think makes less and less sense is sticking with out of form players, not the caf. You sound like you’d give everyone a lifetime contract and play em regardless.
 

BenitoSTARR

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Excellent last post there @SteveW

And @BenitoSTARR get over yourself man, I’m not blaming DDG for our latest defeat and nor are many others, he was at fault for his shite keeping though and his consistent calamity James-esque 2 years.

You wouldn’t hear me say a bad word about De Gea even 1 year + into this slump because he wowed me for years, but now it’s beyond a joke, if he’s not throwing a ball into his own net at Vicarage Road, he’s playing a 1-2 with an Everton striker at Goodison, or letting Messi score with the weakest shot of his entire career, else letting Mount beat him with an even weaker shot.

It’s come to a point where I’m fully expecting De Gea to put us in the shit, and I would trust Romero much more for a couple of games where his confidence isn’t completely shot.

What I think makes less and less sense is sticking with out of form players, not the caf. You sound like you’d give everyone a lifetime contract and play em regardless.
Aww cute. Sounds like you need to get over yourself a little.

I disagree with your assessment of one player and you appear to have had a hissy fit. If you have an agenda against De Gea that’s up to you I am arguing that it is entirely stupid to suggest playing an inferior GK for the last 2 matches. That is reactionary and this thread’s time of creation is testimony to the reactionary nature of this thought.

He’s not really out of form the whole team until January was out of form and slogging through games. It sounds like you’d sell everyone before January.

Of course I wouldn’t give out lifetime contracts what a bizarre and irrational thought. Almost as irrational as benching De Gea for the last two games.

You appear to want to insult me and I’m not sure why. I simply have a different opinion to you. Perhaps you should consider why you get so angry when someone is supportive of Manchester United players and doesn't look to condemn them so readily. It’s ok to make mistakes and players will. I think you maybe need a time out to calm down.
 

BenitoSTARR

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What I find interesting is nobody is asking me what should happen beyond those two games...
 

SAFMUTD

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Did anyone heard about his statement on De Gea? Its clear he wont bench him. Maybe Ole is too much of a nice guy and thinks benching him would be like throwing him under the bus. But he should, no player no matter who should retain his place after performing at such poor level. That affects the competition between the squad, Romero knows no matter how good he performs or how poor De Gea does he wont play. Thats a pretty poor message to send.

I dont know about the rest of you but Im tired of hearing "he still one of the best, he knows he should be better, etc" No mate, he used to be one of the best, currently he is not and this should not be treated as if it was a one time accident, its a recurrent thing.

xG for De Gea in 2017-2018? -18 goals, that means he received 18 goals less than the average keeper would receive. His xG for 2018-2019 and 2019-2020? 0. That means he is bang average, he receives exactly the goals an average keeper would, with the difference that he does some spectacular saves and some spectacular fecks ups. So if anyone thinks Romero or Henderson are above the average keeper, then they should start before De Gea.

I preffer having a solid keeper, that doesnt save anything spectacular but doesnt feck up with easy saves. Specially when playing against top sides/crucial games in which De Gea tends to make most of his mistakes.
 

SteveW

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You're mistaken, I'm not moving on from it at all. It's a valid point.

You made the point that Dalot not playing is akin to De Gea being dropped, it isn't. I had to explain it to you why it's such a ridiculous comparison and you admit as much here then by stating "everybody knows Dalot is terrible". One was at one point considered the best in his class at what he does, Dalot has barely even feckin played professional football.

Why compare them then? :lol:
You're mistaken, I'm not moving on from it at all. It's a valid point.

You made the point that Dalot not playing is akin to De Gea being dropped, it isn't. I had to explain it to you why it's such a ridiculous comparison and you admit as much here then by stating "everybody knows Dalot is terrible". One was at one point considered the best in his class at what he does, Dalot has barely even feckin played professional football.

Why compare them then? :lol:



The relevancy is the same as above, best in class at one point.

The relevancy is that in the world of football, managers will afford players a period of time to address their issues, be they personal or professional. He's been afforded that time as I've stated as such in previous comments. But with 2 games to go now, it aides no one to change keeper and causing such unrest in the camp with such sweeping decisions to oust a player with his record so suddenly.



So you agree then that Romero doesn't exactly fill you with confidence?

There's nothing to suggest that he will handle the pressure? He's played as a back up and faced the likes of the mighty Tranmere, Rochdale and Colchester and Derby.

I'll just remind you as well in the last round of the FA Cup vs Norwich, he conceded a similar goal to Mount's yesterday from long range.



Aside from Sampdoria, I don't believe he's ever been a consistent #1 for any club and there's likely good reason for that.

Again, with 2 games left... I think making sweeping decisions is not the time to do it.

Get through the season and then make first team calls like who your #1 is.
Let's recap.

You made the point that Ole shouldn't drop De Gea for Romero because it would likely piss off the spanish/latina players in the squad. I pointed out that a]Romero is Argentinian and part of that group, b] footballers don't think that way because they are grown professionals and not teenage cliques.

I used TFM playing his first game in 3 years ahead of Dalot and Bruno seemingly being fine with it as an example. The point being that Bruno didn't get annoyed because his mate wasn't picked. I used Rashford not getting the hump over Lingard being frozen out as a second example just to make it really easy for you to understand the point being made.

However you still failed to understand and tried to turn it into some comparison between De Gea and Dalot's ability and reputation citing De Geas 400 appearances etc. I didn't think that you would be capable of missing the point so badly and assumed you were purposely trying to distract from your original stupid point. I said I've no interest in that discussion because everyone knows Dalot is crap and its not a comparison I was making in the first place. But you carry on asking why I made the comparison and then bizarrely tried to argue that Dalot was at one point considered "best in class at what he does" without giving any indication of what it is he actually does.

If you want to talk about Dalot so much here is as much as I have to offer. I've zero interest. I couldn't give a shite about him. He's a bad player who will be sold soon. He's not fit to wash Ethan Laird's boots as far as I'm concerned.

Re De Gea I'm sick to death of this ridiculous argument that he needs time and he deserves to keep his place because he used to be so good in the past. So I pre-empted it by making the point that despite being so good in the past De Gea has been out of form for over 2 years now and it can't be just expected to suddenly come right in the next couple of days. I pointed to recent errors and criticisim of his technique from former players. I explained that the next two games are simply too important to risk such an out of form goalkeeper and we need to focus on getting the results as opposed to letting an out of form player use them to try and find himself. And I made the point that having hundreds of appearances is of little use if it won't translate into performances right now.

Of course you just ignored all this and regurgitated the exact same argument that he was so great and has a billion appearances and blah blah blah blah blah. As if I'd never even typed anything. Why did I even bother?

Re Romero, I didn't want to waste time having you try to frame it like I was saying Romero was a great keeper so I made it clear I didn't think he was. I explained that I'd still trust him over De Gea not because of his quality but due to his confident personality and history of performing well on big occasions such as in the World Cup for Argentina. To make the point clear I contrasted it to De Geas shaky performances for his country over the years even when he had been playing well for United.

Of course, you come back with the supposed gotcha that Romero is not a top keeper and couldn't nail down the number 1 spot at previous clubs. I'd literally just said Romero is nothing special. You didn't even engage with my actual argument about him likely being in a better mental state to handle the importance of the games.

So I'm not going to engage any further with you because you don't respond to the arguments being made. I think you actually ignored them on purpose. You just make straw man arguments and argue with random words in my posts. You've made zero effort to argue in good faith. Talking with you feels like arguing on twitter and I don't want to see any more of your posts so I'm putting you on ignore.
 

billybee99

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And the rest?

What of Bruno? Fred? Periera? Dalot?

It's Ole's way of handling things and I'm applying the same logic to it.

One thing Ole shouldn't be questioned on is his man management skills to date, he's done a very good job of it thus far.
They are a Portuguese speaking contingent. They are not Spanish. I'm not sure how benching DDG would miff the "Spanish contingent" as you call them when Mata is the only other Spaniard at the club.
 

SteveW

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They are a Portuguese speaking contingent. They are not Spanish. I'm not sure how benching DDG would miff the "Spanish contingent" as you call them when Mata is the only other Spaniard at the club.
What makes it even better is that Romero an Argentinian would actually be a Spanish speaker himself. But supposedly they'd all get the hump if he played a couple of matches.
 

andy dufresne

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This is not rocket science is it lads and oops , sorry , lasses too. De Gea has to be dropped and either given the rest of the season off or alternatively , we have to get rid of him in the close season and whilst trying to get as much money as possible for him , the greater priority is finding a replacement who is clearly confident enough and of a stature to play week in , week out , for us for a number of years to come. I like Romero , don't get me wrong and I like Henderson too for differing reasons but surely the answer has to be Kasper Schmeichel who for me , fits the bill perfectly. Sure , I understand folk are going to say , he made a howler last week and is not as good as his father (but who was , I ask you) however he is a top class goalkeeper who I feel would leave Leicester to come and play for United. He has that build and confidence , some may say arrogance about him (which is good for a goalkeeper , I always feel) he is decent shot stopper , ok with his feet , not the best but better than De Gea for sure and would not be over-rawed by Old Trafford and for playing for the biggest club in England - I rest my case .
 

Strelok

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This is not rocket science is it lads and oops , sorry , lasses too. De Gea has to be dropped and either given the rest of the season off or alternatively , we have to get rid of him in the close season and whilst trying to get as much money as possible for him , the greater priority is finding a replacement who is clearly confident enough and of a stature to play week in , week out , for us for a number of years to come. I like Romero , don't get me wrong and I like Henderson too for differing reasons but surely the answer has to be Kasper Schmeichel who for me , fits the bill perfectly. Sure , I understand folk are going to say , he made a howler last week and is not as good as his father (but who was , I ask you) however he is a top class goalkeeper who I feel would leave Leicester to come and play for United. He has that build and confidence , some may say arrogance about him (which is good for a goalkeeper , I always feel) he is decent shot stopper , ok with his feet , not the best but better than De Gea for sure and would not be over-rawed by Old Trafford and for playing for the biggest club in England - I rest my case .
You must be smoking smth heavy mate.
 

Adnan

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Romero has played in much bigger games than De Gea in his career and should be trusted for the remaining games in the league and in Europe.

 

BenitoSTARR

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Hissy fit? Do you know what a hissy fit is?

And "insult", where have I insulted you?
Yes and comparing him to David James’ calamities is entering into hissy territory.

You insult me by suggesting I need to get over myself and then imply I’d give everyone in the squad a lifetime contract.

I happen to think it would be idiotic to put De Gea on the bench in our last two games. Do you believe Romero should start them?

I also believe Romero should have started the FA Cup game and should start out Europa games too.

I then believe at the end of the season we need to set up a clear succession plan for De Gea that may involve Henderson (though I have my doubts about his distribution) I do not believe De Gea should be removed from his position yet. I think his experience and the fact he’s saved us far more than any other player in the squad since SAF retired for me gives him enough credit until next season to see if he’s good enough or if this dip is his new level.
 

sillwuka

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I think Ole knows he's made a mistake by not playing Romero in the semi final, if Romero drops those clangers then De Gea comes in next game and saves the day against West Ham.

Now, if he plays Romero and he makes any sort of mistake against West Ham then Ole will come under fire plus the fallout of dropping DDG. Lose/lose situation unless we win of course..
 

Ronaldo's ego

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West Ham aren’t going to pepper our goal and hopefully come the Leicester game all we need to do is keep it tight. We need a safe, calming presence in goal and De Gea is not that at the moment. It shouldn’t be a question whether the manager has it in him to drop a keeper who’s been out of form for 18 months, that’s laughable. De Gea has no right to be aggrieved if he didn’t play another game this season.
 

lsd

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Fergie has said if he had the decision again to drop Leighton for the Cup Final he wouldn't do it as it killed Leighton's
career .

He has to keep faith in De Gea right now as it is just too big a risk not too.

If he plays Romero and it backfires against West Ham what does he do then as De Gea will be shattered as well plus the pressure he will come under for making a call that went wrong at this time ?

Not to mention if it comes down to the Europa then and he can't trust either keeper.

The West Ham game is not going to end our season but dropping De Gea and Romero messing up will most likely finish us .

De Gea for this game and if he really does screw it again then at least he left Ole with no choice at all for Leicester
 

RedDevil@84

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Funny how caf hates Jose for throwing players under the bus, but then wants Ole to do that. The manager is supposed to shield his player from such ridiculous opinions in media and fans. It is a different thing, if the player is hopeless, or bad in training or has serious attitude issues or manager is convinced the player's mind is elsewhere. But no sane manager should just throw out players for individual mistakes alone.

On phasing out De Gea and bringing in Henderson or anyone else, that is a long term strategy and it will be done over a period of time, but not suddenly with 2 games remaining.
 

Amir

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People seem to take it almost personally if people criticise De Gea. The fact is that he hasn't been up to scratch for over a year now. Making the odd great save is great, but that's the thing about being a goalkeeper - it's not about being brilliant in certain moments, but also being solid nearly all the time. If you aren't doing that, and you give away a cheap goal for every one or two truly brilliant saves, then you are not your doing your job well.

He won't be dropped, so the threat is academic, but his form is clearly a worry because the improvement upfront could be ruined by what's happening at the back.
 

BenitoSTARR

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It’s a real issue on the CAF the short term views people hold are shocking.

It shows a complete lack of understanding of management.
 

Amir

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I don't know why DdG is getting all the blame for such a lousy performance. Maguire was equally abject. There wasn't a good performance in the whole team. I mean sure, he's not as good as he was. But he's got enough credit in the bank to see out the season.
We weren't good, but sometimes teams - good teams - don't play well and still win. Keep it at 0:0 into the second half, and who knows what happens. Give away two goals, and it's over. All we needed really was for De Gea to be solid, not even great or anything, up to those goals.

The fact that he played badly isn't horrible - it happens, you have an off day, move on. Problem is he's been having them for a while now and it's costing us a lot.
 

billybee99

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Yes and comparing him to David James’ calamities is entering into hissy territory.

You insult me by suggesting I need to get over myself and then imply I’d give everyone in the squad a lifetime contract.

I happen to think it would be idiotic to put De Gea on the bench in our last two games. Do you believe Romero should start them?

I also believe Romero should have started the FA Cup game and should start out Europa games too.

I then believe at the end of the season we need to set up a clear succession plan for De Gea that may involve Henderson (though I have my doubts about his distribution) I do not believe De Gea should be removed from his position yet. I think his experience and the fact he’s saved us far more than any other player in the squad since SAF retired for me gives him enough credit until next season to see if he’s good enough or if this dip is his new level.
2 years is not "a dip" in form. He has been sub par since the World Cup in the summer of 2018. That is a very long time.
 

baskinginthesun

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If Ole had a week to think about it he may drop him for 1 game or so (in the middle of the season, however). But, with only 2 days to go until the next match it would be near impossible to drop him and completely feck the team chemistry.

In the same premise, shouldn't Maguire and Lindelof both be dropped as well because they had a few mistakes yesterday as well? The difference is the DDG is the absolute last line of defense and more noticeable when he makes a mistake.

Keep De Gea in goal for the rest of the season, there is no point dropping him right now.
 
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This situation is similar to the one that Fergie regrets...

Loved Sir Alex but he made mistakes glad that Ole isn’t making the same one.
It was only a regret on a personal level, for the club it was a cracking decision.
Sealey deserved it too, so often the reserve goalkeeper is overlooked and what an important part of Fergie keeping his job he was in 1990 and even in the Cup Winners Cup victory :drool:
 

DannyDee

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VDS and Schmeichel made clangers as well but Fergie did not drop them because they were brilliant GKs but he did drop De Gea for Lindergard early on and then De Gea came good.
De Gea is in the top three GKs we have had and Ole is not going to drop him.
Fergie said one of the reasons why they went for De Gea was his temperment so we will see if he can bounce back from that horror show.
Also a big difference between dropping a potentially slightly overwhelmed young keeper (De Gea was 21/22 at the time) adapting to a new league, and dropping an established 29-year-old goalie who is proven in the league.
 

F-Red

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This is not rocket science is it lads and oops , sorry , lasses too. De Gea has to be dropped and either given the rest of the season off or alternatively , we have to get rid of him in the close season and whilst trying to get as much money as possible for him , the greater priority is finding a replacement who is clearly confident enough and of a stature to play week in , week out , for us for a number of years to come. I like Romero , don't get me wrong and I like Henderson too for differing reasons but surely the answer has to be Kasper Schmeichel who for me , fits the bill perfectly. Sure , I understand folk are going to say , he made a howler last week and is not as good as his father (but who was , I ask you) however he is a top class goalkeeper who I feel would leave Leicester to come and play for United. He has that build and confidence , some may say arrogance about him (which is good for a goalkeeper , I always feel) he is decent shot stopper , ok with his feet , not the best but better than De Gea for sure and would not be over-rawed by Old Trafford and for playing for the biggest club in England - I rest my case .
It's not rocket science, but grammar is. Schmeichel, at the age of 33, should not even be thought of, considering our current roster of goalkeepers.
 

BenitoSTARR

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2 years is not "a dip" in form. He has been sub par since the World Cup in the summer of 2018. That is a very long time.
And if that is your view I accept your opinion however it doesn’t validate Romero in goal for the last 2 pl games.
It was only a regret on a personal level, for the club it was a cracking decision.
Sealey deserved it too, so often the reserve goalkeeper is overlooked and what an important part of Fergie keeping his job he was in 1990 and even in the Cup Winners Cup victory :drool:
He regretted and would I have changed it.

You drop De Gea these last 2 PL games you don’t play him again.
 

BenitoSTARR

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why?

It’s 2 fecking games of football man. I’d drop him, then start him in the Europa. Why should keepers be undroppable when in poor form?
It shows no confidence in him, throws him to the papers and shatters the relationship. Likely resulting in more speculation and disruption to the squad than just backing a world class performer on his day.

It’s not just two games it’s the decisive games for Champions League football. You drop him you are sending a message that you don’t trust him to get us over the line.

You don’t drop him you back him to the end of the season and give him a chance to prove people wrong.

I’d start Romero in Europa. That’s his competition.
 

croadyman

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What I find interesting is nobody is asking me what should happen beyond those two games...
Romero should stay in for the remainder of this campaign and bring Henderson back this summer to challenge De Gea for the no 1 spot because he is too comfortable right now.
 

BenitoSTARR

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Romero should stay in for the remainder of this campaign and bring Henderson back this summer to challenge De Gea for the no 1 spot because he is too comfortable right now.
I’d be happy for Romero to play our Europa fixtures and Henderson to come and compete with De Gea next season.
 

croadyman

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Fergie has said if he had the decision again to drop Leighton for the Cup Final he wouldn't do it as it killed Leighton's
career .

He has to keep faith in De Gea right now as it is just too big a risk not too.

If he plays Romero and it backfires against West Ham what does he do then as De Gea will be shattered as well plus the pressure he will come under for making a call that went wrong at this time ?

Not to mention if it comes down to the Europa then and he can't trust either keeper.

The West Ham game is not going to end our season but dropping De Gea and Romero messing up will most likely finish us .

De Gea for this game and if he really does screw it again then at least he left Ole with no choice at all for Leicester
He will probably still keep goal for Leicester even if he has yet another gaffe adding to an already extensive library of them from the past year at least.

I am not saying Romero is the long term answer because he simply isn't and being number 1 could be too big for Henderson next season. However surely he at least deserves an opportunity to prove he can be the main man.
 

Jim Beam

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He won't bench him, maybe, just maybe for Leicester if he makes another feck up as it is not the last game and a decider.

But, I do feel he needs a bench. Maybe it will help him and get him in the right state of mind. After all, the way he responded in his first season after being benched for a while was brilliant. It is not the same, but people sometimes need a kick in the ass.

Oh well, we'll see..
 

glazed

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The fact that he played badly isn't horrible - it happens, you have an off day, move on. Problem is he's been having them for a while now and it's costing us a lot.
That's a fair assessment tbh.
 

humdinger

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Should drop him but probably won’t. Unfortunately when DDG starts making big mistakes he doesn’t bounce back and tends to go on a run of chucking them in his own net.

He was hugely responsible for us missing out on top 4 last season when he got the jitters. Hope history doesn’t repeat itself.
 

WR10

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If you're playing chess that would be a dumb move. What's your end goal here? It would be to sell him for a premium. Dump him after those mistakes and that's a sure way to shave off 10-20% of his selling price. Regardless, when De Gea is good - he's really good. With potential 'finals' coming up for us, we're going to need him at really really good. He generally bounces back. However, by no means am I saying keep him long term. He must go. Someone posted a stat showing he is in his own stratosphere of mistakes leading to goals amongst keepers in the PL. That is enough to get him fired.
 

Eddy_JukeZ

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If you're playing chess that would be a dumb move. What's your end goal here? It would be to sell him for a premium. Dump him after those mistakes and that's a sure way to shave off 10-20% of his selling price. Regardless, when De Gea is good - he's really good. With potential 'finals' coming up for us, we're going to need him at really really good. He generally bounces back. However, by no means am I saying keep him long term. He must go. Someone posted a stat showing he is in his own stratosphere of mistakes leading to goals amongst keepers in the PL. That is enough to get him fired.
The days of selling De Gea at a premium are long gone.