Introducing playoffs in the Premier League

Buchan

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The play-offs are entertaining to watch from a neutral’s perspective but incredibly harsh on the teams who routinely finish 10+ points ahead of 7th place yet lose out over a two-legged tie or a one-off match at Wembley.

I’d scrap them in the Championship, never mind introduce them to the Premier League.
 

Jaqen H'ghar

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No.

The season is already too long, with top teams likely having commitments in other cup competitions, and their international players having commitments with their national teams during the break.
 

Denis' cuff

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We really don’t need contrivances to make even more money for PL, Sky etc whilst burdening players with ever more games. WC/European qualifiers, extended competitions, CL groups and qualifiers, club fundraiser pre-season matches...

No
 

iHicksy

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What's the point of having league standings if the 7th placed team can get into the CHAMPIONS LEAGUE. The competition has been diluted enough as it is. Doesn't need mid table teams competing in it.
 

Wonder Pigeon

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The poor old Europa League is already undermined enough by having 3rd placed Champions League teams dumped into it, having teams qualify as a result of losing in league play-offs would further kill that competition in the public eye.

The league playoffs in England at least were brought in to restructure the number of teams in the leagues and stuck around after. Yeah they're exciting but I'm not sure that's a good enough starting point to bring them in for European qualification, what necessitates it as a better system than is already in place?
 

Pav1878

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Been a long time advocate of playoffs for the last CL place and I came across it discussed on Twitter the other day so thought I'd throw it out there to see if I'm alone.

Purists that I come across seem to be against the general idea of playoffs, but i see it as a way of adding way more excitement and actually prolonging the competitive nature of the league.

I'd quite like to see a 4 team playoff for the last spot (4th-7th). 1 legged ties, with highest placed teams getting home advantage. Final at Wembley or something (or maybe even abroad.. :raises eyebrow: )

This has the following advantages:

1. Would make for a really exciting playoff tournament at the end of the season.
2. Would prolong the competitive nature of the league as teams perhaps as low as 10th would still have something to play for towards the end of the season (so way fewer dead rubbers)
3. Yet more TV revenue
4. A little more PL variety in the CL.

Its a bit if a weird concept, almost treating CL qualification as a trophy, but the money of the CL makes it worthy. Just look at how much of the discussion on here lately has been around "making top4" lately.

Thoughts?


Maybe even a playoff for the last relegation spot too. But I'm not sure if that would be a bit too hard to watch, and probably a bit morbid given what's at stake..
Think it's a really interesting idea and the positives you list there sound great.

Would certainly mean less dead rubbers and the premier League I'm sure would love any excuse for more revenue.

I wouldn't rule it out personally.
 

Lay

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No because the team that finishes 7 in the EPL is usually shit but not shitter than the rest. The top 6 teams usually are miles ahead
 

Mr. Ant

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Well to be fair the PL has too many clubs of a similar quality and there is just no way anybody outside of City and maybe Liverpool for a couple of years will be able to finish top 4 every season. You can add Newcastle to the list when the oil money kicks in.

We will probably see a lot more clubs start to take the Europa league much more seriously.
 

Superunknown

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I am 100% against playoffs of any kind. I loathe the idea of it in the Championship already and would hate to see them introduced into the Premier League.

The Championship table right now. One more game to go:

1st - Leeds - 90pts
2nd - West Brom - 82pts
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
3rd - Brentford - 81pts
4th - Fulham - 80pts
5th - Nottingham Forrest - 70pts
6th - Cardiff City - 70pts
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
7th - Swansea City - 67pts

It is worth noting that Cardiff have a GD of 7 and Swansea have a GD of 6.

Swansea, with a big win and Cardiff with a loss would push Swansea into 6th, therefore the promotion spaces. There is a scenario here where the team who are 7th going into final day could still end up playing Premier League football next season. How on earth can that possibly be right or fair? If the table stays as it is right now, Brentford will miss out on second by 1 point and they could still not go up. Similar-ish case for Fulham. It's utter nonsense and not fair.

The playoffs devalue the hard work of the teams who have worked to get into those better league positions. Brentford are currently 11 points clear of Cardiff. Why should they have to play additional games after already playing 46? If you finish third, you go up. If you don't, then you stay put. We need less contrivances in football, not more. This is just an example of football made for TV and money, rather than for the good of the game and in the name of fairness. Yes, I understand that not all things are fair in football or life, but it doesn't mean we have to go out of our way to make things more trivial and difficult. It disadvantages the teams in the higher positions (in this case, third and possibly fourth - since Fulham could still finish third on the final day) and it gives an incentive for teams who, frankly, haven't earned it. Why should the 6th best teams (according to the table) be playing Premier League football next season?

The same logic applies for the Champions League. If you have finished in the Champions League spots, then you've earned the right to play in the competition. (let's put aside the argument over how many spots there should be for a moment). I hope that we never have to see such a thing in the Premier League.
 

RU Devil

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Not a fan. Imagine being 4th, and then getting knocked down into the Europa League. Playoffs do make the Championship rather interesting for the neutral, but I'm sure most of the top teams in the EPL would be against as they have the most to lose. They already have a large slate of games & don't want to add more pressure at the end of the season. Besides, does any other association allocate CL/Europa spots via playoff? I know some UEFA spots are via cup competitions (which is a type of playoff), but not by playoff like the Championship.
 

njred

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The end of football as we would know it. Americanized with commercial breaks to follow.
 

Sandikan

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The "champions" league is already watered down with 4th becoming a thing.

Imagine if a team in 7th managed to scrape in!
 

PSV

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This is all fun and games until you realize FA Cup and EFL Cup still grants access. Would turn this into a bigger mess than it already is (with teams not knowing whether they've qualified come the end of domestic season, ie. 7th this year).

No thanks.
 

Chief123

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Ironic that you should mention playoffs.

we could have a bizarre situation which no one has really mentioned yet.

if we beat West Ham 5-3 and Leciester beat us 1-0, then we will have to have a play off with leciester again to decide 4th spot!

because we would be on same points, goal difference, goals scored, goals conceded and same head to head results!!
 

Patchbeard

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I am 100% against playoffs of any kind. I loathe the idea of it in the Championship already and would hate to see them introduced into the Premier League.

The Championship table right now. One more game to go:

1st - Leeds - 90pts
2nd - West Brom - 82pts
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
3rd - Brentford - 81pts
4th - Fulham - 80pts
5th - Nottingham Forrest - 70pts
6th - Cardiff City - 70pts
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
7th - Swansea City - 67pts

It is worth noting that Cardiff have a GD of 7 and Swansea have a GD of 6.

Swansea, with a big win and Cardiff with a loss would push Swansea into 6th, therefore the promotion spaces. There is a scenario here where the team who are 7th going into final day could still end up playing Premier League football next season. How on earth can that possibly be right or fair? If the table stays as it is right now, Brentford will miss out on second by 1 point and they could still not go up. Similar-ish case for Fulham. It's utter nonsense and not fair.

The playoffs devalue the hard work of the teams who have worked to get into those better league positions. Brentford are currently 11 points clear of Cardiff. Why should they have to play additional games after already playing 46? If you finish third, you go up. If you don't, then you stay put. We need less contrivances in football, not more. This is just an example of football made for TV and money, rather than for the good of the game and in the name of fairness. Yes, I understand that not all things are fair in football or life, but it doesn't mean we have to go out of our way to make things more trivial and difficult. It disadvantages the teams in the higher positions (in this case, third and possibly fourth - since Fulham could still finish third on the final day) and it gives an incentive for teams who, frankly, haven't earned it. Why should the 6th best teams (according to the table) be playing Premier League football next season?

The same logic applies for the Champions League. If you have finished in the Champions League spots, then you've earned the right to play in the competition. (let's put aside the argument over how many spots there should be for a moment). I hope that we never have to see such a thing in the Premier League.
I do complete see where you're coming from here, but the play-offs in the football league keep those divisions interesting and competitive right til the end for a large number of teams (and the fans of those), as even teams in the bottom half at Christmas know that they can still snatch a place in the play-offs with a good run.

In the Premier League it is different because there is European qualification available to teams down to 6th (or usually 7th depending on the cup winners). The Championship and other lower leagues wouldn't have that competitive edge all season long without having play-offs.

Would be interesting to know what proportion of 3rd/4th/5th/6th placed teams have gone up historically since they began though!
 

Withnail

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God no. You'd be raging if you got 4th only to be pipped in a one-off game to the team who came miles below you in 7th.

I don't agree with play-offs in general. League position should be final. It's a cynical money-making exercise imo.
 

Giggsy13

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No. You’re at risk of losing quality teams going to champions league. I can understand the excitement of a playoff however, the guarantee of 4 places for premier league teams would be under threat. We only have 4 places because of our performances in Europe. UEFA could change that to 3, if the English clubs get knocked out in the group stages year after year, which would be a risk if a 7th place team is allowed to go instead of a 4th place team that’s earned the right.
 

Rado_N

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No, playoffs are fundamentally unfair and if anything they should be removed from the lower leagues not added into the PL.

As a neutral I enjoy the spectacle of the lower league playoffs but they’re just not fair.
 

RedDevil@84

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No. The purpose of the long league season is to establish clear positions. No need to further devalue the hard work over a season.

What next, take the top 4 and conduct a semifinal and final and decide the champions?
 

crossy1686

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Why would we have a play off for CL places when we have a system that rewards the top 4 over the course of a season anyway? Throwing that out for people's enjoyment of final day drama is bollocks, you could be the 4th best team all season and rock up to a CL play off final with half your squad out and get battered. Then some shit team that finished 7th qualify for the CL and get spanked for 6 games against far superior opposition.

You haven't thought this through one bit.
 

Dave Smith

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The only change I would make is to get rid of GD/head to heads and have a play off if teams are equal on points. Personally, I have never felt GD is all that fair as some teams can smash a team who are having a bad night/bad patch that then completely puts them out of sight i.e. Leicester v Southampton. For me, any teams that finish equal on points with something to be decided i.e. Title, CL/EL spot, relegation should play off if they end up on the same points.
 

ninjaskill

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No, although I wouldn’t mind a playoff being used over goal difference or head to head for say 1st 4th or 17th if teams in those spots have the same number of points
 

Cat1989

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We'd have to change the name of the Champions League to "The Champions, and some other shit teams that finished 7th, League"
It’s already watered down as it is having 3/4th placed teams in the “Champions” League, but yeah I agree the play offs for
It would be a ridiculous idea.
 

adexkola

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Horrible idea

How about we kick non-champions out of the CL, instead of giving more non-champions a chance to play in a tournament created for champions ffs
 

12OunceEpilogue

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Been a long time advocate of playoffs for the last CL place and I came across it discussed on Twitter the other day so thought I'd throw it out there to see if I'm alone.

Purists that I come across seem to be against the general idea of playoffs, but i see it as a way of adding way more excitement and actually prolonging the competitive nature of the league.

I'd quite like to see a 4 team playoff for the last spot (4th-7th). 1 legged ties, with highest placed teams getting home advantage. Final at Wembley or something (or maybe even abroad.. :raises eyebrow: )

This has the following advantages:

1. Would make for a really exciting playoff tournament at the end of the season.
2. Would prolong the competitive nature of the league as teams perhaps as low as 10th would still have something to play for towards the end of the season (so way fewer dead rubbers)
3. Yet more TV revenue
4. A little more PL variety in the CL.

Its a bit if a weird concept, almost treating CL qualification as a trophy, but the money of the CL makes it worthy. Just look at how much of the discussion on here lately has been around "making top4" lately.

Thoughts?


Maybe even a playoff for the last relegation spot too. But I'm not sure if that would be a bit too hard to watch, and probably a bit morbid given what's at stake..
Playoffs are definitely exciting and limiting the amount of dead rubbers at the end of a season is a laudable objective, but I think we already do that in our league with the CL and EL places. Teams as low as tenth are already interested in finishing as high as possible as a good run of form in the last few months can see them rise into EL contention.

I do find the stance that play offs are fine for 3rd-6th in the lower leagues to go through but would be wholly inappropriate for potential CL teams interesting. I suppose I also hold that view as I tend to think what we have now is tried, tested and proven to work well. Maybe you could argue that the PL top four tend to be the strongest teams financially that could make the most of CL qualification the following season, while the seventh placed side sneaking in through a playoff would be more likely to 'waste' the opportunity, and that the top quarter of the Championship is made up of sides with more congruous financial situations. But yeah it's quite an interesting discussion, as are many of the more venomous replies in this thread :lol:
 

Pexbo

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Also, goal difference should be decided by 3 minutes of multi ball where 100 footballs are dropped onto the field by helicopter and it’s up to the teams to score as many as possible while conceding as few as possible
 

Chipper

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I don't see the need.

Championship - 2 up, 4 in the playoffs, 3 relegated. So something happens to 9 out of 24 teams in the end, which is 37.5% of them. That's with playoffs and then there's the teams trying to make the playoffs who just miss out and those who are in a relegation battle but survive. Plenty of teams playing for something late into the season and that's the point of them.

Premier League - 4 CL places, 1 EL place, 3 relegated. Something happening to 8 teams or 40% of them already, plus the teams involved in the race for European spots but fall short and those who just about manage to stay up. Then in reality there's often more EL spaces up for grabs due to league position because of who wins the cups. We already have the reason why they exist in the Championship, with a big proportion of the teams playing for something late into the season.
 

SAFMUTD

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Im from Mexico, mexico has this system. Is shit.

Of course you get the exciment of playoffs but thats what the cups are for. Implementing this system in the league will do nothing but to lower the quality of the espectacle shown everyweek. Teams dont put that much effort nor invest so much as they know they dont need to be the best, just among the top 8 or whatever to have a chance.
 

Carl

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Why would we have a play off for CL places when we have a system that rewards the top 4 over the course of a season anyway? Throwing that out for people's enjoyment of final day drama is bollocks, you could be the 4th best team all season and rock up to a CL play off final with half your squad out and get battered. Then some shit team that finished 7th qualify for the CL and get spanked for 6 games against far superior opposition.

You haven't thought this through one bit.
Nothing wrong with your first para. Why end it like that though? Everything you mentioned has been discussed already, its hardly a hidden mechanic I wasnt aware of :lol:

To counter, as said in the OP, this could work because of the quality of the PL. 7th placed this year is likely going to be Spurs. Far from out of place in the CL.
 

Carl

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Horrible idea

How about we kick non-champions out of the CL, instead of giving more non-champions a chance to play in a tournament created for champions ffs
The CL would be so much worse off if it was actually only champions that qualified.
 

fps

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No, there are too many matches in a season as it is, let the players have some rest and the fans some time to miss the game.
 

Gazza

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The main driver for play-offs in lower leagues is to make as much of the season meaningful for as wide a range of teams as possible. I don't think that driver exists in the Premier League because there is already the carrot of qualification for European football, be it Champions League or Europa League.
That's the crux of it right there
 

bond19821982

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No, basically what @balaks said.
For the record, the championship/league 1 playoff is also is a bad idea. The table doesn't lie and it's your performance for a season. You just cannot let your hardwork go because of couple of bad matches in the end.

Or do everything like a play offs. Let the top 6 teams end of the season fight for the title. Why should just the top 2 teams get a free pass ?