What's happened to De Gea?

Strelok · Jul 20, 2020

AFC NimbleThumb said:
Steady on lad. @Bojan11 made a remark about a player who has been underperforming for 18/24 months; don’t claim to know what kind of person he is off of a flippant sentence.

I’ve attended games at countless grounds in home ends, a number at OT - sit in one when a player makes a mistake leading to a goal & clown would be a compliment.

You’re right this isn’t black & white, we live in the real world & getting emotional over that word in that context is pathetic.

You’re more than happy to call players you don’t rate anything but the ones you do are off limits. @Bojan11 isn’t the one with the issue here.

What is the stuff with @Bojan11 ?

Glad that at least you agree with that, no more the calling Lingard a clown is the same with calling DDG a clown. Well that means now we came back to the discussion of whether DDG should deserve some respect or not. Before we'd dig into more details about his time here. Do you agree DDG should deserve some respect for this alone?

Strelok said:
Remember the fax machine? It's clear af that he wanted to go to Real Madrid then was refused to let go. Most players would lose their shit and do shit things in a situation like that. But DDG, he showed his outstanding professionalism, stayed and did his job as nothing happened. That alone would deserve some respect imo.

AFC NimbleThumb · Jul 20, 2020

Strelok said:
What is the stuff with @Bojan11 ?

Glad that at least you agree with that, no more the calling Lingard a clown is the same with calling DDG a clow. Well that means now we came back to the discussion of whether DDG should deserve some respect or not. Before we'd dig into more details about his time here. Do you agree DDG should deserve some respect for this alone?

Time to move on.

You’re talking at me as if I made the comment, the fact you’re asking what this has to do with @Bojan11 [the member that called him a clown] shows you have no clue where this originated & are getting upset over an issue you’re not well versed on.

We don’t agree on much lad but let’s agree to disagree & get back to reviewing his performances.

Strelok · Jul 20, 2020

AFC NimbleThumb said:
Time to move on.

You’re talking at me as if I made the comment, the fact you’re asking what this has to do with @Bojan11 [the member that called him a clown] shows you have no clue where this originated & are getting upset over an issue you’re not well versed on.

We don’t agree on much lad but let’s agree to disagree & get back to reviewing his performances.

Could you quote his post please? I really do not wish to have to go through like ten pages to find it.

And no, I knew you're not the one who called him a clown. We're discussing about whether it's ok to calling him names in general. Give the man some respect, he deserve it. That's my point.

izec · Jul 20, 2020

We are fecked. Ole will give him another go next season IMO. With a GK like that, the season starts with a massive handicap for us.

GiddyUp · Jul 20, 2020

Champagne Football said:
You'd really have to wonder how we ended up paying him £370,000 per week, despite his performances being poor for a year beforehand.

Was that Ole's decision? Woodward decision? Madness

Sentimentality has fecked this club over a lot over the last 10 years.

matherto · Jul 20, 2020

I wonder if it's an eyesight problem.

Rolaholic · Jul 20, 2020

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clarkydaz · Jul 20, 2020

Remember a few weeks back Keane ripped him apart, i dread to think what he says next time asked about DDG

Random Task · Jul 20, 2020

Rolaholic said:
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It wasn't that long ago that fans saw De Gea as one of the best keepers we ever had (some would argue the undisputed best), but his standard has dropped so low over the last couple of years that legacy is legit under threat.

Regression is one thing, a natural thing, but how do you go from being a world-class keeper to a calamitous liability in the space of 18 months? That's right, you don't.

I think, and I could be wrong, that our DDG has been Space Jam'ed.

RedFish · Jul 20, 2020

His level was ridiculous. Maybe he just lost a tiny bit of motivation, but enough to lose that edge. I swore at the time he deserved our undying love, and that may be true, but he can still have that, and be our no 2 or more likely at another club.

Ronaldo's ego · Jul 20, 2020

He needs to stop oiling his gloves

Kamprad · Jul 20, 2020

He needs a mental coach. This is all in his head.

hobbers · Jul 20, 2020

It's definitely all down to complacency. Plain as day.

Before he was playing to break into the Spain squad and get his dream move back to Spain, to Barca or Madrid. Now he's got himself a fat contract, no prospect of a move anywhere, not much competition from Kepa to worry about.

What he really needs is an extended stint on the bench watching someone like Henderson get an opportunity. But obviously that's just not feasible with modern keepers. If we bring Henderson back and ditch De Gea for a run of games we're basically putting De Gea on the transfer list, and on those wages he will have no suitors. Conversely if we don't give Henderson another good season long loan opportunity, bring him back and force him to sit on the bench watching De Gea, he'll just force a move away.

WR10 · Jul 20, 2020

Rolaholic said:
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Let's expand this a little bit more. His decline has been nothing short of remarkable.
In that season (2017/18) De Gea errors leading to a goal: 0. Who were the worst keepers that season? Peter Cech with 6 and Begovic with 5. Peter Cech effectively ended his career that season.
Season after (2018/19) De Gea ended 2nd in errors leading to 4 goals given away. Begovic won that one with 5 and that effectively ended his career finally.
This year? De Gea is back at 2nd with 4 goals given away in the PL alone.

So not only has he been bang average in his shot-stopping (based on that xG save ratio) for the past 2 seasons but he has been fecking up as much as keepers did in their retirement seasons.
If you're wondering, De Gea's total tally in the premier league is 13 goals chipped in for brain farts. 8 out 13 have been in the past 2 seasons.

If this is not easy grounds for termination, I really don't know what is.

SadlerMUFC · Jul 20, 2020

Scholsey2004 said:
There's the fact that he doesn't take crosses as well. Things like that have been excused because the shot stopping was so good. Now it's not.

It was never excused for me. That's the basics of the position and being a keeper for most of my life, I've been pointing out his short comings for a long time. I was probably the only one (or one of) who was disappointed when the fax machine was "broken". Can you imagine what it must be like to be a defender with him behind you? No wonder we camp out so deep half the time. Our defense don't trust our keeper...

mitchmouse · Jul 21, 2020

The Sun claims DDG will be dropped for the West Ham game (they are also claiming City want Sanchez, so make of this what you will)

Devil81 · Jul 21, 2020

Watching the goals back again I can excuse the first just about but the second is just unbelievable. Its surely the most bread and butter of saves for any keeper. Shot from distance, average pace at diving arms length. I don't know how he's let that in, I really don't.

If we're totally honesty we want him to do better with all three of those goals but the second is Karius standard of feck up.

You only have to look at his reaction after each one, no spirit left in him at all. He looks a broken man, I've been saying it for months this isn't an ability issue it's a mental issue, the kid needs to speak to a shrink as these mistakes are going to end his career. You only have to look at Joe Hart, although he wasn't of the same level as De Gea he took the Pep rejection that bad he became a complete calamity wherever he's been. West Ham and Burnley dropped him and results improved.

Ole could and maybe should have replaced him on Sunday, he's surely got to do it tomorrow. I personally would be disappointed if he was not, he deserves dropping.

Water Melon · Jul 21, 2020

Been putting in horrific perfotmances lately. Needs to be benched. Has been given a very long time to catch his top form back, but the longer he plays the shittier he is getting.

Alemar · Jul 21, 2020

Is it possible to play Henderson in Europa League this season? Loan ends earlier than EL restarts, apparently

2 man midfield · Jul 21, 2020

Alemar said:
Is it possible to play Henderson in Europa League this season? Loan ends earlier than EL restarts, apparently

That would be silly imo. Hendersons been on loan for about 3 years, does he even know any of the United lads that well? Throwing him straight in without at least a pre-season seems like suicide to me.

Pavl3n · Jul 21, 2020

crossy1686 said:
Have a listen to this. Starts at the 25th minute if you want to skip

thanks for that

Schmeichel's Cartwheel · Jul 21, 2020

Alemar said:
Is it possible to play Henderson in Europa League this season? Loan ends earlier than EL restarts, apparently

No. The Europa squad is already registered.

Nikelesh Reddy · Jul 21, 2020

DoomSlayer said:
What does he excel at right now? Used to be the best shot-stopper in the world, but that's clearly not the case anymore. So what makes him a world class GK?

At his best,his shot stopping ability....His ability to cover all his angles in an efficient way...His 1v1 Goalkeeping made him world class.David never had the imperious personality of a Schmeicel or a Manuel Neur....David’s strength was his remarkable shot stopping and his calm personality.A lot of defenders don’t like to play in front of a showboater(Schmeicel,Neur).

He still keeps making remarkable saves,but obviously he’s losing his concentration at critical moments now.Maybe it’s just a rough patch and we need to just be patient and let him play through this period....Or maybe he’s having to adjust to being a GK who doesn’t have to make a lot of saves in a game(as Schmeicel believes)....

Either way,we need to be very careful before taking a decision here,because I don’t think Dean Henderson’s good enough to be a ManUnited goalkeeper....David’s been world class for so long,he certainly deserves to be given the benefit of doubt,atleast for now...

Zen86 · Jul 21, 2020

He’s not been the same since he got his fat contract. I don’t think his heart is in it anymore, it probably would’ve been best for all parties if he made his move to Madrid in hindsight.

NinjaZombie · Jul 21, 2020

Random Task said:
It wasn't that long ago that fans saw De Gea as one of the best keepers we ever had (some would argue the undisputed best), but his standard has dropped so low over the last couple of years that legacy is legit under threat.

Regression is one thing, a natural thing, but how do you go from being a world-class keeper to a calamitous liability in the space of 18 months? That's right, you don't.

I think, and I could be wrong, that our DDG has been Space Jam'ed.

The only plausible explanation. :lol:

iHicksy · Jul 21, 2020

If interested a user by the name of Huurtz on reddit has created a fantastic comparison between De Gea and Henderson for goals conceded this season and has even included the video link to each one for a fair comparison:

izec · Jul 21, 2020

I don't think it is just a mental issue. He is slower now, and some routine saves he makes look like worldies because of his slower reaction. Someone said eyesight issues, that would be more logical to me. It is definitely something that can't be resolved quickly or that will go away automatically. If he didn't regain some form back after the lockdown, no summer break or vacation will make it better if it is an issue over years and seasons.

I think he needs to sit down with the staff and some other experts and be honest about it. Maybe it is something he hides and is ashamed/afraid to speak about.

Adnan · Jul 21, 2020

If we didn't have Henderson we would be scouring the globe for a new keeper right now.

groovyalbert · Jul 21, 2020

I mentioned it in the De Gea thread, but if you look at the amount of games he's played since Fergie left, it's pretty mad. I think he's only missed something like 10 league matches since the start of the 13/14 season.

It's pretty obvious that his decline started at the 2018 world cup where, after having been expected to finally establish himself as Spain's rightful number 1, he had a stinker. Although he has been better for us than he was then, he's never got close to his pre-world cup standards and is now at his lowest since he first arrived.

I think he needs to take a step back and have some time off. I know we've just had lockdown, but if it is mental exhaustion then that was hardly the time to sort that stuff out. I think he could also do with potentially retiring from international football in order to just focus on his game/club career. For whatever reason, international football has never really worked for him.

He is still young for a goalkeeper, and has more than enough about him to recapture form. It is not unusual for goalkeepers to have moments like this in their career. Neuer had a fall from grace but has steadily improved, and Schmeichel had a similar blip albeit towards the end of his career.

We've got a great keeper for the future on our books, and De Gea has done so much for us/has so much natural ability for us to simply call it time. People calling for a sports psychologist may be on to something, but I would also be interested in knowing what's going on with him and our seemingly revolving door of goalkeeping coaches.

Withnail · Jul 21, 2020

harms said:
The last time Romero had played week in week out was in 2012/13. To give you some perspective, this was the season when we had won the PL. After that he had lost a starting place in recently promoted Sampdoria and never played as a first choice in club football since.

His international career is quite impressive, although he never got even a remotely decent competition. Still, for the entirety of career there he was always an error-prone goalkeeper.

He’s a fantastic second choice keeper and he has been mostly brilliant for us given the chance but he’s not good enough to be our number 1, he never was and he never will be. His “experience” is very much in question as well. Considering what Henderson had achieved already, there is a possibility that he’ll become United’s number 1 for years, so there’s no real argument for benching him for Romero.

It’s the same as when fans had argued that Lindegaard was a better first choice than De Gea. Some players that perform well in secondary roles should get proper credit for that, but, at the same time, we shouldn’t overrate them – it’s a very specific role and the requirements for it are very different compared to the requirements for a first choice keeper.

P.S. as for the international career, for some context – Marcos Rojo is currently on 61 caps for the same Argentina side and he was a starter in their runners up World Cup campaign in 2014, same as Romero. Heck, he even got in the All Star XI somehow.

Great post.

Be careful what you wish for, Romero is not the answer.

tenpoless · Jul 21, 2020

Bring back Emilio Alvarez.

Lj82 · Jul 21, 2020

iHicksy said:
If interested a user by the name of Huurtz on reddit has created a fantastic comparison between De Gea and Henderson for goals conceded this season and has even included the video link to each one for a fair comparison:

The point about weak wrist is very true for the last two games. For most of the goals conceded he got his hands to the ball. He lacked conviction in the saves be tried to make. I don't know if he will ever get it back. I'm worried about pinning our hopes on Henderson though.

izec · Jul 21, 2020

tenpoless said:
Bring back Emilio Alvarez.

Justice for Emilio

Jaqen H'ghar · Jul 22, 2020

Roane said:
If DDG is benched and Romero takes over financially wouldn't we be where we are?

I mean both players get paid whichever one plays and surely the bonus payments for playing, winning etc would be same too or even less if contract based and Romero gets them

Romero deserves his chance. I for one feel more confident with him in goal

If we can shift DDG the all good. But if not then financially we lose more with his mistakes

Excellent point.

Jaqen H'ghar · Jul 22, 2020

sglowrider said:
Ole needs to tread carefully -- we don't need another Ozil/Sanchez situation here

Were already there by the looks of it.

The Oracle · Jul 22, 2020

Almost 6 years now since he last saved a penalty in the league.

May as well just award the goal, instead of going through the formality of taking the penalty kick.

TMDaines · Jul 22, 2020

The Oracle said:
Almost 6 years now since he last saved a penalty in the league.

May as well just award the goal, instead of going through the formality of taking the penalty kick.

I swear he does the same thing every time and just falls down casually. There’s no belief there on penalties, which is ridiculous considering his overall shot stopping.

m1tch · Jul 22, 2020

You know how a centreback would take goalkicks when a keeper picked up an injury, well would the rules allow us to put an outfield player between the sticks for penalties?

TheHeya · Jul 22, 2020

Quoting someone from the match day thread I’m sure he dives away from the ball every time there’s a pen.
Was the last time he saved one the one against Arsenal/RvP?

JB08 · Jul 22, 2020

TheHeya said:
Quoting someone from the match day thread I’m sure he dives away from the ball every time there’s a pen.
Was the last time he saved one the one against Arsenal/RvP?

Lukaku penalty for Everton at Wembley.

Over 4 years ago.

What's happened to De Gea?

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