Pretty much but time will tell I suppose.
Solskjaer & Staff Management Skills | Are they too soft?
- Thread starter RDCR07
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
Which one of you still think that Ole supporting his players in public means he's soft on the training field? Speak up so I can correct your opinion.
Wow. Just Milner from his first ever team is still an ever present! I didn’t realise it was so dramatic!
OGS may or may not be the right long term bet for us. But regardless it shows you how much evolution and tile is required for a manager to get what he truly needs to win this league.
You look at that bench and there's no one to bring anything new at any time. He has no choice but to play his first 11. The team that has made sure we are even in the top 4 fight to begin with. You can't rotate when you know the rotatees(aye)will for sure lose the match.
Not everything is black and white just because you feel stressed. Gets us into the top 4 race and immediately you see sth you don't like he's clueless and lacks tactical nous. I wish I could see your perspective honestly i'm so curious as to what brings about this line of thinking
Not everything is black and white just because you feel stressed. Gets us into the top 4 race and immediately you see sth you don't like he's clueless and lacks tactical nous. I wish I could see your perspective honestly i'm so curious as to what brings about this line of thinking
I adore Ole like any United fan but us letting go the opportunity to sign Poch and clinging on to Ole will come back to haunt us.
We don’t know because none of us actually have anything to do with the running of the club. But looking for any old excuse when the team doesn’t win by three goals isn’t a good look.
Yeah. The worst part is we have a very, very talented squad right now. It's not often you have such a good mix of youth and experience bursting onto the scene.
Anyone remember post match argument between GNev and Keano, think it was after game with City, where GNev basically said likes of Fred had given it their all, or that's how good they are.
Keano argued they should do more but GNev basically said that is their best.
Reason I bring this up is that GNev was spot on. What's the point of berating players who are playing at their best but their best is just not good enough.
Maybe likes of Jose had a point picking on certain players because they were the only ones who he felt could do more. Or maybe he couldn't accept that this was it.
To progress Ole needs to make huge changes but his hands were tied from the off with some of the signings and wage of likes of Sanchez.
Keano argued they should do more but GNev basically said that is their best.
Reason I bring this up is that GNev was spot on. What's the point of berating players who are playing at their best but their best is just not good enough.
Maybe likes of Jose had a point picking on certain players because they were the only ones who he felt could do more. Or maybe he couldn't accept that this was it.
To progress Ole needs to make huge changes but his hands were tied from the off with some of the signings and wage of likes of Sanchez.
Fannying around in our own box is not giving the best. He let's them do whatever they want on the pitch and just sits there. Sure he says he doesn't rant but as a manager you got to be more active on the touch line.
I don't think he is soft. I just think he doesn't have the capacity to manage a huge club.
We lack mental tenacity. Personalities like Roy Keane and Ferguson brought a sense of 'constructive fear' into the dressing room - a fear that made you perform because you just had to. There wasn't an alternative because the moment you are on that pitch, you are giving it every ounce of your waking energy and determination. We don't have that for now.
For now? We haven’t had that for even one game since Fergie left. It kinda falls on the players too. It has more to do with the winning mentality throughout the team rather than being feared of a player.
That’s bullshit. You can’t rotate cause they will lose the match for sure? We played our strongest XI and still dropped 4 points AT HOME in 3 games. Before Pogba and Bruno were available the likes of McTominay and Fred were playing well and they had improved their game and gained confidence. You can’t play them for 20 minutes every other game and then start them one game in like 5-6 games and expect to perform the same way. Of course their performances would drop. But the slow integration of just one of them with our strongest team even every other game would have still kept them sharp.
I get that Ole should have used Fred and Mctominay as bodies to just rest Bruno or Pogba but they definitely can't be used as impact subs when we need to score. I mean do people forget how we struggled to break down low blocks without Bruno and Pogba
This a funny thread. Ole is calm and cool and this a bad thing? Perhaps he saves it for when it's necessary. The fellas look tired. They need to show up on Sunday, big time. Not sure we truly have a 'leader'. Maguire isn't bad. Bruno, for me, if he stays a while, is a better choice for captain as he's more quality. Ole has put the players in their best positions, thus they can have the most success. Not much more a manager can do. And who do we bring on to spice things up? D James is a squady; J Lingz is dogshite; Mata is old and slow; Igahlo, that's it. The boys need to perform, that, is, it! Can't wait for Sunday. On a side note, how about Pogba's save? What reflexes!
Yes and Ole has had a huge role in getting the squad to where it is in just two transfer windows. I am more excited to see what he can do with the team in two years.
On this thread though, yes I feel our team can be too over/under confident during games and it needs a mix of encouragement and scolding during the games to keep it in the right mental frame. Being aloof, Ole behaves as if these are battle hardened seasoned players but they aren't. Yet.
He has, no doubt. However, I just don't think he has it in him to take the team to the next level that a top class manager can. That's just my gut feeling based on what I've seen so far and I sure hope I am wrong. I don't think he has that aggressive/ballsy attitude to really make things happen when the going gets tough.
Personally, I think the reason Ole is quiet or plays the same lineup 50 times without changing it much is because he doesn't have the deep knowledge of knowing what other combinations would work out there. He sticks to a tactic that has worked and hopes for the best I feel.
Don't wanna take anything away from Ole. Best manager since SAF and has done very well in bringing our squad to a level that we're ready to make the next step. I'm tired of being ridiculed by opposition fans though so I sure as hell hope he can do it and prove me and the haters wrong.
I mean Salah and Mane weren't highly rated when Liverpool bought them.
No one batted an eye when those 2 were bought.
You can mean all you like. I first responded to a post that made out klopp just made mediocre players thrive. Ignoring the fact he had to more or less buy a new starting 11 to make thrive
I'm not convinced by the whole "standing on the touchline yelling at our players is best" line. I'm neither here nor there with that and there are too many variables to work with when you consider whether or not if it's effective.
One thing I will say though is that suddenly we are able to score goals now that Ole is here. Rashford and Martial are having superb seasons and Greenwood has emerged this year as a player for us. So, there are positives there and things are happening behind the scenes that are showing an improvement.
I do think a lot of this does come down to personnel. We've had Moyes, Van Gaal, Mourinho and now Ole here, with various different management skills and various different results. We've seen a difference with Pogba and Fernandes in midfield and with that attacking trio of Rashford, Martial and Greenwood. So, this leads me to believe that we need better quality footballers at the club that fit in with our system and ideas. Van Gaal tried to implement his system and it worked at times, but ultimately it wasn't the one for us. You could see what he was trying to do and maybe with different footballers he would have seen more success longterm.
Somewhat on/off topic and partially anecdotal, but I have been teaching for over 10 years now. My teaching style has changed a lot throughout the years. There have been times where I've used the "shouty" approach, or barking out instructions, or quietly and calmly given out my directions, etc. The most important thing that I have learned is to adapt and be flexible. You find what works for what's in front of you and adapt accordingly. Ole will have to do the same. If he was to bark instructions at Pogba and Martial for 90 minutes, I am not convinced at all that this would work. We have to remember that the footballers that existed 20 or 30 years ago are of a different mindset to the ones of today. Attitudes and approaches have changed, so we can't necessarily do what Fergie would've done and hope for the same result.
Can Ole improve? Yes, for sure.
1. Better substitutions. Importantly, I feel that he often makes these too late into the game for the players to make a serious impact. It shouldn't be at a pre-set or pre-determined time. If he feels at the 58th minute that something needs to change, then change it then. This is one area where he can be a bit more "aggressive" and I don't think that he will be criticised too much for it, because it shows him doing something proactively.
2. Rotate his squad more effectively to avoid fatigue and overusing players. I can see why he would start with his preferred players, but there are times where players will go off the boil and you need some added freshness from the rest of the squad. It's a squad game. I think it's important that Ole keeps these players hungry and the way to do that is to show them that there will be times where they will be thrown in. The other side of this is that the longer you leave players out, the more disinterested they become and the negative effect that this has on the squad as a whole.
3. Vary the tactics and change accordingly. So, what I mean by this is that if one tactic isn't working in a game, adapt to the problem and look for solutions to this. There have been times where it's felt like the 60-80th minute of matches have been pointless because no subs have been made and we've tried the same thing over and over and seen the same result.
One thing I will say though is that suddenly we are able to score goals now that Ole is here. Rashford and Martial are having superb seasons and Greenwood has emerged this year as a player for us. So, there are positives there and things are happening behind the scenes that are showing an improvement.
I do think a lot of this does come down to personnel. We've had Moyes, Van Gaal, Mourinho and now Ole here, with various different management skills and various different results. We've seen a difference with Pogba and Fernandes in midfield and with that attacking trio of Rashford, Martial and Greenwood. So, this leads me to believe that we need better quality footballers at the club that fit in with our system and ideas. Van Gaal tried to implement his system and it worked at times, but ultimately it wasn't the one for us. You could see what he was trying to do and maybe with different footballers he would have seen more success longterm.
Somewhat on/off topic and partially anecdotal, but I have been teaching for over 10 years now. My teaching style has changed a lot throughout the years. There have been times where I've used the "shouty" approach, or barking out instructions, or quietly and calmly given out my directions, etc. The most important thing that I have learned is to adapt and be flexible. You find what works for what's in front of you and adapt accordingly. Ole will have to do the same. If he was to bark instructions at Pogba and Martial for 90 minutes, I am not convinced at all that this would work. We have to remember that the footballers that existed 20 or 30 years ago are of a different mindset to the ones of today. Attitudes and approaches have changed, so we can't necessarily do what Fergie would've done and hope for the same result.
Can Ole improve? Yes, for sure.
1. Better substitutions. Importantly, I feel that he often makes these too late into the game for the players to make a serious impact. It shouldn't be at a pre-set or pre-determined time. If he feels at the 58th minute that something needs to change, then change it then. This is one area where he can be a bit more "aggressive" and I don't think that he will be criticised too much for it, because it shows him doing something proactively.
2. Rotate his squad more effectively to avoid fatigue and overusing players. I can see why he would start with his preferred players, but there are times where players will go off the boil and you need some added freshness from the rest of the squad. It's a squad game. I think it's important that Ole keeps these players hungry and the way to do that is to show them that there will be times where they will be thrown in. The other side of this is that the longer you leave players out, the more disinterested they become and the negative effect that this has on the squad as a whole.
3. Vary the tactics and change accordingly. So, what I mean by this is that if one tactic isn't working in a game, adapt to the problem and look for solutions to this. There have been times where it's felt like the 60-80th minute of matches have been pointless because no subs have been made and we've tried the same thing over and over and seen the same result.
Not the best day to say Klopp did not make mediocre player thrive isn't it?
Jordan Henderson has been voted Player of the Year.
Anyone who thinks Ole is the same level as Klopp or Pep is having a laugh.
How do you describe a mediocre player? As in how would you class a player as mediocre?
mate I have to agree with you and bojan11
What are the tactics? (Simply buy the best players)
we ll spend 500 million and there will be people still saying it is the players fault!
Watching our defence do an impression of the titanic in slow motion coupled with vast chasm between a slo mo one gear Pogba And ‘the designated scorer or assist provider of ALL goals - Bruno’ is like watching the Big lebowski- ‘the plane has crashed into the goddam mountain lebowski!’
How have we come to this?
we are Man Utd
well said.
while I hope we get over the line on Sunday let’s not kid ourselves that Ole is anywhere near klopp. Klopp transforms rab c nisbett into the best left back in the world, a North African magic carpet into alladins cave and pulls play boy rabbits out of red hats
meanwhile we give contracts to mummies in coffins, Preach About time travel into a successful future via the Gary Neville teleportation system (which worked well in Spain ) and a belief that we should nurture novice managers in an incubator before they are ready for real life - while at the same time employing them as manager
baby face assassinate me please
Everyone is entitled to there opinions, i guess that's the point in these type of forums, but one thing i have learned from the caf is that 99.99999% of us know absolutely feck all truly about football management and constantly get shown up in the end, Ole might be exactly what we need and in 1-2 years might lead us to a title, or he might not, regardless, we don't have a clue, so I will support the man until the higher up's decide otherwise,
My personal opinion is, of course, i would have like to have seen a bit more from this team so far with Ole in charge, but i see very positive signs of where he can take us, and there's clear evidence we have progressed rather than regressed over the last year which i will take at this point.
My personal opinion is, of course, i would have like to have seen a bit more from this team so far with Ole in charge, but i see very positive signs of where he can take us, and there's clear evidence we have progressed rather than regressed over the last year which i will take at this point.
He seems to be getting ripped apart a lot for not rotating. I strongly suggest people go look at the starting lineups since the league started back up. Most clubs were making maybe 1-2 changes and if there were more it was forced changes like Jesus for Aguero for example.
We lost 1 game since the restart, ironically a game we did rotate in. Hindsight is wonderful thing. Whose to say if we rotated heavily we would’ve won those games without Bruno, Martial et al? To his credit when we did have a huge lead the big 5 were always taken off.
We lost 1 game since the restart, ironically a game we did rotate in. Hindsight is wonderful thing. Whose to say if we rotated heavily we would’ve won those games without Bruno, Martial et al? To his credit when we did have a huge lead the big 5 were always taken off.
That’s a load of shit
and why even have to mention thinking Ole is on the same level as klopp or pep
Absolutely not. SAF cannot even remotely be compared to the touchline lunatics like Pep or Klopp. SAF didn't constantly shout like them, nor was he so hands-on as people like Lampard and Jose are, constantly shouting instructions. He spent most of the time sitting and observing and when he did descend from his seat, the players knew they had to buck up. I think Evra once spoke, that when they saw SAF standing on the touchline, the players knew they were in trouble and immediately redoubled their efforts. This wouldn't have the same effect if he was constantly standing and raving on the touchline like Pep.
I think LVG once said that if the manager has to constantly shout instructions during the match, that means he hasn't prepared the players well enough during the week. As much as I disliked the man, I have to agree with this statement of his.
Constantly shouting on the touchline is no measure of management skills. SAF seldom shouted at his players mid-match and it worked out alright for him.
I didn’t say I wanted Ole at the touch line the whole 90 mins. But when our performances drops during the game or when we keep giving the ball and can’t string passes together it’s good to show them how it’s unacceptable. Like you said just the presence might change the mindset of players and they could push harder.
I wonder if Ole tells Pogba to always dribble in positions that can lead to conceding. Or Matic to hog the ball for so long. I feel like the team are just playing based on their individual ability rather than well drilled tactics most of the time. We do have tactics though but I wouldn't call us a well drilled team
Last edited:
Henderson the man who would never make as a top player according to SAF. That's why he didn't buy him. A man who played over 70 games for Sunderland, is not really classed as a top world class player.
Sorta right. Think about it. If your weakness is turning quickly with the ball the thing is you get the ball out of feet quickly instead of inviting pressure. If it happens once or twice it’s fine. But it happens every game and we lose possession every game. That’s a reason to yell at that player surely? I’m sure SAF did that.
I agree really it be good to get up now and again but with these water breaks they get a chance every 20minutes now anyway.
mckenna is often on the sidelines so is carrick
Nonsense
I mean, this is the same manager who fecked off Lukaku and Sanchez, as well as Smalling without a shred of regret... When the supposed tough guys like LvG and Jose were all too willing to give their ilk chance after chance despite flattering to deceive more often than not.
They weren’t his signings. Lukaku did alright last season given how poor the team was. Sanchez I agree was not performing. But if that’s your argument, are you forgetting he kept playing Lingard earlier this season even though he has been shit for a while now. It’s only after Bruno came in he got neglected. He has made 21 appearances in the league this season and doesn’t have a goal or assist to his name. He has made 37, yes THIRTY-SEVEN appearances all season with 2 goals and 2 assists.
It's been stated that Ole wanted both Lukaku and Smalling to stay.
Neither were the likes of Smalling and Jones for LvG and particularly Mourinho.
Who would you have played instead of Lingard? As much as you would have liked it, we aren't going to pick 10 players at the start of matches. Also, have you seen Lingard much since Bruno came in?
Actions speak louder than words. He didn't play Lukaku much when he came in and Smalling knew the writing was on the wall when Maguire came in. Likewise, Jones but nobody was silly enough to be in for the latter.
What makes me laugh is the warped negative view of Smalling. I like Maguire but, give me a break - you honestly document as a True Manchester United fan You would rather Lindelof and Maguire ?
seriously!
have you ever played football?
the way anyone would look at it is who would you rather face as a centre forward ? Maguire and Lindelof or Maguire and Smalling?
I know who I would choose to run/jump against!
anyone would.
it is a total and utter disgrace how Smalling - our best defender has been alienated. Sabotage/ sheep mentality whoever you are you should be ashamed of yourselves and you are either a cheat or totally ignorant if you stand by your campaign.
Either way - how many centre backs do we have to buy to get a good one? You either laugh or cry
seriously!
have you ever played football?
the way anyone would look at it is who would you rather face as a centre forward ? Maguire and Lindelof or Maguire and Smalling?
I know who I would choose to run/jump against!
anyone would.
it is a total and utter disgrace how Smalling - our best defender has been alienated. Sabotage/ sheep mentality whoever you are you should be ashamed of yourselves and you are either a cheat or totally ignorant if you stand by your campaign.
Either way - how many centre backs do we have to buy to get a good one? You either laugh or cry
Fair point for the most part. I would have Smalling over Lindelof. Not only does he have more pace but he is also better in the air. Only drawback is he isn’t good on the ball, not even as good as Lindelof is.