Total lack of respect for an absolute club legend (another Ole thread)

bond19821982 · Jul 24, 2020

No one is targeting Ole the player and he has fecking earned his stature at this club. Similarly Ole the manager would be criticized or scrutinized until he earns it.

Deal with it dude. Klopp was ridiculed as fraud here. So until Ole achieves something he will be labeled as a failed Cardiff manager and rightly so. If you getting hurt by this, then cafe is not the place for you.

ThatsGreat · Jul 24, 2020

Very difficult to make your opposition to the manager known without resorting to insults. Otherwise all threads here would be a poll with yes/no options without a textbox.

RUCK4444 · Jul 24, 2020

bond19821982 said:
No one is targeting Ole the player and he has fecking earned his stature at this club. Similarly Ole the manager would be criticized or scrutinized until he earns it.

Deal with it dude. Klopp was ridiculed as fraud here. So until Ole achieves something he will be labeled as a failed Cardiff manager and rightly so. If you getting hurt by this, then cafe is not the place for you.

This is the CAF mentality in a nutshell. What the feck constitutes a failed Cardiff manager? Living in Cardiff myself I can tell you that almost every manager in their existence is a failed manager :lol:

Klopp or Pep would not have kept that Cardiff team in the PL. It will be the same if they are promoted through the playoffs now, any manager will struggle to keep them up.

bond19821982 · Jul 24, 2020

RUCK4444 said:
This is the CAF mentality in a nutshell. What the feck constitutes a failed Cardiff manager? Living in Cardiff myself I can tell you that almost every manager in their existence is a failed manager

Klopp or Pep would not have kept that Cardiff team in the PL. It will be the same if they are promoted through the playoffs now, any manager will struggle to keep them up.

Thats not the fecking point dude. If you didn't get it, I am helpless.

Gehrman · Jul 24, 2020

MalcolmTucker said:
Why do people keep going on about point totals? If you want to go down that route then Pep's City and Klopp's Liverpool are better than any of SAF's Man Utd teams. You think that's true?

Position is all that matters. Klopp came 4th in his first full season, one point ahead of 5th, Ole is currently in 3rd, one point ahead of 5th.

Their domestic season's were better, but not overall better when you include Europe. Finishing 2nd with 97 points tells you more about the quality of the team than finishing 2nd with 82 points like we did with Mourinho.

RUCK4444 · Jul 24, 2020

bond19821982 said:
Thats not the fecking point dude. If you didn't get it, I am helpless.

No it's exactly the point and links back to the OP. You just called Ole (club legend) effectively nothing but a failed Cardiff manager. How else or what else did you mean?

bond19821982 · Jul 24, 2020

RUCK4444 said:
No it's exactly the point and links back to the OP. You just called Ole (club legend) effectively nothing but a failed Cardiff manager. How else or what else did you mean?

Sorry dude. You guys are on a different league. No point in arguing. Just carry on with your agenda.

RedDevil@84 · Jul 24, 2020

My general opinion is criticism is welcome, abuse is something which is not. Now it doesn't matter if it is a club legend like Ole or a non-club legend like Jose.

RUCK4444 · Jul 24, 2020

bond19821982 said:
Sorry dude. You guys are on a different league. No point in arguing. Just carry on with your agenda.

I'm not arguing. Your the one labelling him, I would say it is you with the agenda.

I'm fond of Ole, obviously as a player we all are, but it doesn't blind my perception of what I see off and on the pitch. I simply look at where we were and where we are heading now.
I'd be as defensive about any manager who were in his position if they had ticked the same boxes Ole has for me.

Conversely I think the Ole-Out brigade are the ones that let pride or thought's of 'better options' blind their opinion more so than the people who defend him.

Foxbatt · Jul 24, 2020

What a ridiculous thread. Most people criticise him for his handling of the team. People don't criticise him personally maybe apart from one or two.
We have always criticised our managers and players and a lot worse than what Ole is getting here. Players who were bigger legends than Ole has been shouted with f words etc during matches.
I don't see Ole's criticism getting personal here at all compared to what Moyes, LVG or Jose has faced here.
I am not a newbie from the era of Fergie. I have seen from Sir Matt to Ole now. The fact he was an ex player gets him an easier ride than any other manager before him.
He should rightly be criticised for his failings and praised for his success. He is going to get criticised more simply because he is doing a job and getting paid for it and people normally don't get praised for simply doing your job.

Denis79 · Jul 24, 2020

There is a difference between criticism and disrespect, some can't see that on both sides of the argument. Some of the fans who want Ole out tend to go over the top at times and whatever Ole does is never good enough but at the same time the people who want him to stay can't handle any criticism going his way, even valid discussions and questions asked are always dismissed as if the man is flawless. It's very polarized even though the truth is somewhere in the middle.

bond19821982 · Jul 24, 2020

RUCK4444 said:
I'm not arguing. Your the one labelling him, I would say it is you with the agenda.

I'm fond of Ole, obviously as a player we all are, but it doesn't blind my perception of what I see off and on the pitch. I simply look at where we were and where we are heading now.
I'd be as defensive about any manager who were in his position if they had ticked the same boxes Ole has for me.

Conversely I think the Ole-Out brigade are the ones that let pride or thought's of 'better options' blind their opinion more so than the people who defend him.

It does blind you or atleast the OP. Just can't take any criticism and start complaining about it. You guys are letting your emotions override the reality.

I am criticizing Ole the coach but you assumed that against Ole the person. The term "failed Cardiff manager " is a phrase that was widely used here just like Klopp was labeled as a fraud. You again assumed there to suit your agenda. No one fecking cares what Pep or Klopp can do to Cardiff (that's not the point ). You argued again, that's the point .

And yes, as things stand I have no trust in Ole to take us forward. If that's labeled as lack of respect, then be it.

Can't fecking believe how immature are we .

Maluco · Jul 24, 2020

Criticism is fine, so long as credit is given when due, but insults are never ok. 95% of the posters on here know this.

At the same time, I think “he is giving his life for our club” is a load of rubbish. He is the manager of Manchester United because he cares, but also because it’s a very good position for Ole Solskjaer to be in. He is ambitious, just like any other manager. He is not “giving his life” to United. He has been gifted the privilege of managing the best club in the world.

With that responsibility comes certain pressures, and criticism when certain targets aren’t achieved. That’s the nature of any high-powered career, and it doesn’t get much bigger than the role he is in.

He loves it though, and it’s an excellent job for him personally. So, while we are grateful for his service and dedication to a club we also love, lets not go overboard with that particular narrative.

Cardboard elk · Jul 24, 2020

Some of the criticism has been of the belittling kind and some with making fun of his looks etc. That is immature and not worthy of his status in the club imo.

I for one believe 100% in his project, but maybe that is because I can see what he wants and what he needs to get there. He needs some more time and some players. thats it really. If you go back to changing manager now, you do not only take away that future success but you risk a lot more than you do by giving Ole the time he needs and follow the plan. In my eyes he has done what he said and is on target with the development. Unbeaten in the league since January and still people are out for blood. People forget how the state of the club and squad was 1,5 years ago. This is going in the right direction. Thats all that matters because if that trend continues then we will ultimately have the wanted success again. It is just that some people are not the patient type.

cyberman · Jul 24, 2020

Denis79 said:
There is a difference between criticism and disrespect, some can't see that on both sides of the argument. Some of the fans who want Ole out tend to go over the top at times and whatever Ole does is never good enough but at the same time the people who want him to stay can't handle any criticism going his way, even valid discussions and questions asked are always dismissed as if the man is flawless. It's very polarized even though the truth is somewhere in the middle.

Its the moving of the goalposts that annoys me. A lot of posters were claiming he wasnt good enough to coach attacking players, to develop our forward players in and around the box.
Now that he has, its all put down to Bruno so the aspect thst needed a top coach to implement is suddenly the easiest thing in the world if you just buy a quality player.
He has brought through Mason beautifully and has developed Martial into an excellent number 9, he has aso brought the consistency out of Rashford that many here said couldn't happen.
All those hundreds of posts claiming hes only a counter attacking manager are now forgotten about. We cant bring that up

youmeletsfly · Jul 24, 2020

What, respecting a legend?
He was a legend as a player mates, 20 years ago. He will always be respected for that.
Now he is back as a manager, is respected by fans but is not liked by fans for his absolutely lunatic press conferences (moyes like) and for being a below average coach.

He should be firstly judged by his performances as a manager and yes, I agree, most idiots on the forum go over the top.

But him being a club legend should have 0 impact on the analysis of his performance as a coach. As a coach he should be treated the same as Moyes or any other "Stranger" that became a United manager. When did United fans become so fecking soft?

el3mel · Jul 24, 2020

cyberman said:
Its the moving of the goalposts that annoys me. A lot of posters were claiming he wasnt good enough to coach attacking players, to develop our forward players in and around the box.
Now that he has, its all put down to Bruno so the aspect thst needed a top coach to implement is suddenly the easiest thing in the world if you just buy a quality player.
He has brought through Mason beautifully and has developed Martial into an excellent number 9, he has aso brought the consistency out of Rashford that many here said couldn't happen.
All those hundreds of posts claiming hes only a counter attacking manager are now forgotten about. We cant bring that up

There were also posts that were slaughtering our players non stop and saying Leicester had better squad than us to justify the bad form and now after one signing (Bruno) we have become the 3rd best squad in the league according to a thread here. Why not bring those as well ?

So let's take it easy.

edcunited1878 · Jul 24, 2020

elmo said:
Ok, so we'll just compare him with Sheffield, Wolves and Leicester than.

Before the start of the season, would anyone think that these would be the clubs that we would be competing for a spot in Europe?

It's easy to coach when all your players are fit and healthy, the real test is when you're missing players and they're unfit and Ole has shown that he's clueless at rotating players to keep them fresh.

We're on our way to our worst year yet in terms of points in the league and yet you've people saying it's not Ole's fault and it's the lack of quality in the team.

How the feck did Ole not change the system to fit the players we have in the first place? Our points total in 2019 was basically bottom half of the table standard and that's just unacceptable for our standards.

Because just like Jose did, fitting your system to the players is a short term solution. He stuck to what he and the coaches thought is the best way forward as an identity to give them the best chance at winning in the short term and long term knowing how young their team is. LVG had a dedicated system, it was quite boring and mundane, but at least he stuck to something and it was clear what he was trying to do. Same with Ole, he's stuck with something for his first full year which has taken advantage Martial and Rashford and now Greenwood.

And Ole and the players gave themselves a chance, some how, by making use of their talents and qualities. The team was boosted after Bruno came into the side, when Rashford was hurt, but was steadied by Fred, Matic, Bruno, Martial...then Rashford came back into the fold as did Pogba after the lockdown.

Now it's the crunch time of the season, the squeeky bum time. You have to roll out the best players as much as possible and understand that this suffering is part and parcel of the process of learning how to win.

Our points total in the beginning of this season was shit, but that's done and that was a growing pain. United didn't have the quality and there were still growing pains and learnings as a young, unproven, but yes talented side nonetheless.

edcunited1878 · Jul 24, 2020

Mainoldo said:
So if he had the City and Liverpool job in its current state. Those clubs would be okay? I’d be more included to think if he was in charge they would be catchable. Just an honest opinion too.

I don't totally understand your comment, but I think if Ole had City's squad, he'd be top 3 because they are top quality players even if they have their issues especially in defense. I don't think Ole is a better manager than Pep or Klopp, which is fine. But those two managers have a better squad than United and the players, for the most part, are experienced players.

USREDEVIL · Jul 24, 2020

ThatsGreat said:
Very difficult to make your opposition to the manager known without resorting to insults. Otherwise all threads here would be a poll with yes/no options without a textbox.

No it's not. Instead of name calling or insults, just focus on criticizing the decisions and style of play. That's all anyone's asking.

Mainoldo · Jul 24, 2020

edcunited1878 said:
I don't totally understand your comment, but I think if Ole had City's squad, he'd be top 3 because they are top quality players even if they have their issues especially in defense. I don't think Ole is a better manager than Pep or Klopp, which is fine. But those two managers have a better squad than United and the players, for the most part, are experienced players.

If Ole had City’s squad they wouldn’t make the Champions league spots. They play a certain way because or Pep. Ole couldn’t replicate that. He’s also have KDB playing in the two of a pivot or Rodri and Fernandinho in the two with KDB as the 10. They’ve had CB issues too. Pep because of this has used Fernandinho in there a lot. Ole wouldn’t have done that and it would have been Stones and probably someone from the reserve. so they’d really struggle at the back also. Believe me without investment it wouldn’t have looked good for Ole.

Bobcat · Jul 24, 2020

Rafaeldagold said:
I think you don’t want to look at the realistic signs.

He had an awful awful start to the season, picked up from Jan with Bruno playing amazing & upping everyone else’s game.

Bruno off the boil= no good performances anymore.

Ole relies way way too much on the individual brilliance of our good players (Rashford, Martial, Bruno, Greenwood lately) Rather than just tactical brilliance & having us dictating games .

Our last few games have been absolute rubbish with no plan from the manager (as he relies on individuals to win us games) & seen us not dictate or dominate games against Southampton & West Ham (& look sloppy & shakwy against Bournemouth) not mentioning the embarrassing Chelsea loss.

So please don’t try to say it’s all rosey, it most certainly isn’t & we should demand a better manager just like we expect our team to improve with better new players, why don’t we want the best manager we can get??

Every single manager, past, present and future relies on indvidual brilliance at this level. There is SO much more to management than purely tactics.

Id argue that 90% of management is squad building and motivational/leadership skills. The fact that his front three, Fred, Shaw etc look better now is something he deserves credit for.

Also, if indvidual game tactics played such a huge role, then National fotball would not be dominated by the same 8-10 big Nations every single tournament year after year. Id also argue tactics plays a much bigger part in NT fotball, because National teams only train together a couple of times a year, where as clubs do it daily

Saying the past bad games are just down to shit tactics is simplistic. Players are knackered, which is legit criticizm imo because he should have rested key players more

Eckers99 · Jul 24, 2020

Denis79 said:
There is a difference between criticism and disrespect, some can't see that on both sides of the argument. Some of the fans who want Ole out tend to go over the top at times and whatever Ole does is never good enough but at the same time the people who want him to stay can't handle any criticism going his way, even valid discussions and questions asked are always dismissed as if the man is flawless. It's very polarized even though the truth is somewhere in the middle.

Sensible post. As a lover of Ole the player, I do have much more patience for him as manager. It's clear how much he lives and breathes this club and how desperate he is to get us back on top. That doesn't mean I don't flinch when he makes poor substitutions or overuses the same players. He's not a perfect manager, there aren't any. Klopp and Guardiola included.

But anyone who fails to see our upward trajectory is blind to the pretty apparent bigger picture. We're a much more exciting side these days and another successful transfer window should be enough for us to be, if not challengers, then a firmly top 4 side. With the potential to get much, much better within 2 or 3 seasons.

Revan · Jul 24, 2020

MalcolmTucker said:
Why do people keep going on about point totals? If you want to go down that route then Pep's City and Klopp's Liverpool are better than any of SAF's Man Utd teams. You think that's true?

Position is all that matters. Klopp came 4th in his first full season, one point ahead of 5th, Ole is currently in 3rd, one point ahead of 5th.

For UCL qualification yes. Number of points is a good way to measure progress and the relative strength from season to season.

To be fair, even without checking the number of points, it is easy to see that this year the competition for UCL has been weaker. Spurs sacked the manager midseason, Arsenal have been bad even for Arsenal standards, Chelsea sold their best player at the middle of a transfer ban and when they hired a newbie manager (real newbie, not Ole with a decade of experience newbie). The fact that we might still miss UCL shows how poor we have been over the course of the season.

Honest question, do you think that this form of this year (the entire season) will be enough to get qualified next season in UCL (or last year for that matter). It is a historically weak competition for UCL, no ifs and buts. The number of points just quantifies it.

Revan · Jul 24, 2020

Zlatan 7 said:
I think the consensus among match going fans is to support and not abuse. Right? That’s why Moyes was getting clapped and sung, we were getting beat In one match and right through the halftime sang David Moyes red army. That is support, not weird.

a thread saying that respect wouldn’t go a miss with a club legend when criticising him, because he is Not above criticism, that’s not weird.

Their money, their choice. They can do whatever they want and they have supported United more than I ever did.

On a personal note, I find it a bit bizarre and that type of behavior is essentially accepting and even celebrating mediocrity. Even more bizarrely, that seems to be selective. For example, Fellaini (signed by Moyes) gets booed, but Moyes gets applauded. Shitting on LVG and Mourinho was fine, but not on Ole (or Moyes for that matter). So, I don't think there has been such consistency in that aspect.

In any case, there is no such thing as abuse with regard to Ole. He is getting criticized, not abused. In an online forum. Which he does not check. If people really cannot get over with it, they really have problems.

VeevaVee · Jul 24, 2020

Critique is all good. People being over the top dickheeds? Just the way the internet has gone and it’s tiresome.

Ekeke · Jul 24, 2020

Leethal said:
I'm sick of it.

More or less every thread I open, people are openly having pops at Solskjaer. It's incessant. And frankly, embarrassing.

This man has given more-or-less his entire fecking life to this club. Never ONCE has he put Ole first. It's always been the club.

He came to the club as a player, spent the majority of his time on the bench, (despite having outstanding performances week-in, week-out), and he could easily have moved on to another club, like Tottenham, where he was a nailed on starter with a larger earning capacity. Instead, he stuck around and gave his all - knowing full well he was always going to be a substitute. He loved the club.

He came into the job as manager with the club at the lowest state it's been in in some 25+ years. He never knew he was going to be permanent manger; he came in to "help"- which is what Ole does and always has done for this club. When he arrived, from top to bottom, the club fecking stunk. The players didn't want to be here, gave half arse performances, the football was terrible to watch, the club was in total disarray with it's player acquisitions, and we were in free-fall. Despite all of this, Ole came in, steadied the ship, completely reversed the culture within the club, bought "United" players, promoted youth, and restructured the club to how it was in our most successful era.

It's a rebuilding process. Get the culture right within, and the football will follow. Only a complete idiot can say that we haven't progressed this season. The level of entitlement on this forum is ridiculous. He's been here a season and a half, and in that time we have progressed massively.We have people on this forum calling him an "idiot", and wanting us to bring in their new manager of the month flavour. Jose and Van Gaal were two of the most successful and decorated managers prior to joining us - how did they fare? We've seen tangible progress with Solskjaer - which is more than I can say for his predecessors - and look at the state of the club when he received it relative to Jose, LVG and Moyes. But let's just change the manager and roll the dice on an unproven Manchester United manager yet again?

We're moving in the right direction. Give the man a fecking break.

No.

His playing career has nothing to do with his managerial career. Stop judging managers based on what they did as players.

Bobcat · Jul 24, 2020

bond19821982 said:
It does blind you or atleast the OP. Just can't take any criticism and start complaining about it. You guys are letting your emotions override the reality.

I am criticizing Ole the coach but you assumed that against Ole the person. The term "failed Cardiff manager " is a phrase that was widely used here just like Klopp was labeled as a fraud. You again assumed there to suit your agenda. No one fecking cares what Pep or Klopp can do to Cardiff (that's not the point ). You argued again, that's the point .

And yes, as things stand I have no trust in Ole to take us forward. If that's labeled as lack of respect, then be it.

Can't fecking believe how immature are we .

Gimme a break. Calling him "failed Cardiff manager" has loads of intent behind it and is exactly the kind of disrespectful nonsense OP was refering to as you are going out of your way to label him in a derogatory manner.

The comparisons with Klopp are also off the mark. One is managing us, the other our biggest rival

edcunited1878 · Jul 24, 2020

Mainoldo said:
If Ole had City’s squad they wouldn’t make the Champions league spots. They play a certain way because or Pep. Ole couldn’t replicate that. He’s also have KDB playing in the two of a pivot or Rodri and Fernandinho in the two with KDB as the 10. They’ve had CB issues too. Pep because of this has used Fernandinho in there a lot. Ole wouldn’t have done that and it would have been Stones and probably someone from the reserve. so they’d really struggle at the back also. Believe me without investment it wouldn’t have looked good for Ole.

I'd say Ole with City this year would make CL spots. City have lost 9 times in the league, United only 8. Both teams have their obvious shortcomings, but they also have quality and City has more of it. They also have more consistent, experience quality in Sterling, Aguero, Mahrez, B. Silva, D. Silva, KDB, and others.

Without investment for the club, not just specifically for Ole, United would be even worse. Ole has significantly improved Rashford's goal output, transformed Martial into a very complete and competitive 9, nurtured Greenwood, has mixed up the midfield throughout the year to compensate for Pogba being out for so long, ineffective CAM/10 pre-Bruno, injury and form uplift and downturn between Matic, McTominay, and Fred. Shaw arguably played his best season in terms of consistency and reliability. Maguire and AWB were exactly what the club needed and more. Those are the types of signings that were needed for years now, but only got addressed 12 months ago by Ole.

United have to continue to invest in the starting XI and the squad, regardless if it was Ole, Moyes, LVG, or Jose. And it's really never been about the amount of money spent by United, it's how poor it was spent under previous managers to Ole within a 4/5 year span. Those players were never good enough to begin with, nor did they have the potential or mentality to really be United players.

Mainoldo · Jul 24, 2020

edcunited1878 said:
I'd say Ole with City this year would make CL spots. City have lost 9 times in the league, United only 8. Both teams have their obvious shortcomings, but they also have quality and City has more of it. They also have more consistent, experience quality in Sterling, Aguero, Mahrez, B. Silva, D. Silva, KDB, and others.

Without investment for the club, not just specifically for Ole, United would be even worse. Ole has significantly improved Rashford's goal output, transformed Martial into a very complete and competitive 9, nurtured Greenwood, has mixed up the midfield throughout the year to compensate for Pogba being out for so long, ineffective CAM/10 pre-Bruno, injury and form uplift and downturn between Matic, McTominay, and Fred. Shaw arguably played his best season in terms of consistency and reliability. Maguire and AWB were exactly what the club needed and more. Those are the types of signings that were needed for years now, but only got addressed 12 months ago by Ole.

United have to continue to invest in the starting XI and the squad, regardless if it was Ole, Moyes, LVG, or Jose. And it's really never been about the amount of money spent by United, it's how poor it was spent under previous managers to Ole within a 4/5 year span. Those players were never good enough to begin with, nor did they have the potential or mentality to really be United players.

He’s brought in two good players and they have performed well. But question for you as I ask myself this all the time. What’s the actual plan for what style of football we want to play.

He’s brought Maguire the ball playing CB. But it’s quite clear him and Lindelöf don’t go well as a partnership as they don’t complement each other. Therefore we will have to invest again. In all honestly I can’t even tell you who is the better of the top. Clearly Maguire won’t be dropped due to price. But I wouldn’t say he’d be the automatic starter if we brought a CB to complement them.

AWB great defensively but not good enough technically on the ball. Therefore are we planning on our full back not to be utilised on the overlapping or involved in the build up play further up the field? To this question I’ll say yes especially if we give say Sancho the freedom not to track back. However do you reckon this is what Ole see’s?

Same question around the midfield. I think it was clear he wasn’t worried about buying one as he was going to go with the double pivot and he seen Bruno as a Pogba replacement instead of what he became.. because of the shite show Lingard and Andreas produced. Question is how does he see this midfield now. Bruno is his 10. But Pogba in a double pivot isn’t working and quite frankly never has in the Prem.

Eddy_JukeZ · Jul 24, 2020

Leethal said:
How was Klopp faring when he joined Liverpool? How did Liverpool look 18 months into Klopp's tenure?

Pep is another case: He inherited a star studded team, with an open check book. It's completely unfair to compare any manager to Pep. Pep wasn't happy with his full backs? So I think they spent something stupid like 100-150m on full backs since Pep joined.

I mean Liverpool 18 months in looked to have made more progress than we did under Ole. They got 4th in a more competitive top 4 fight with more points.

Pep didn't inherit a star studded team. They barely beat out Van Gaal and us for 4th for heaven's sake. They only got by virtue of a superior GD.

Pep isn't the only manager in history to have money to spend on his teams.

Eddy_JukeZ · Jul 24, 2020

Red_toad said:
This sounds exactly like the heralded Poch some fans haven’t a boner for.
I never wanted Ole as boss, as I knew exactly how an element of our fans react to dropping a few points or going out of a cup competition they look down upon.

I never mentioned Poch nor do I want him.

So I legit have no clue why you've brought him up.

He'sRaldo · Jul 24, 2020

This is the sort of thread that makes people vehemently supporting Ole look bad.

We keep saying don't look at his legend status when judging him as a manager, this is proof that some just can't see past it and are thus too biased to make an accurate assessment.

Glorio · Jul 24, 2020

If you're arguing that the notion in the OP is wrong. I.e. you think Ole doesn't get disrespected, he only gets justifiably criticised, just search "Ole is an idiot" or similar, and let the data speak. You won't look too far for matching results.

There's a saying: you don't bicker over who the best swimmer is next to a pool of water

A lot of Ole fans get precious about the manager because he's one of ours and it seems a weirdly large number of folks only criticise him and never acknowledge the good he's done. Especially considering the progress we've seen as the season has progressed over time.

The whole point about rebuilding is that it is progress over time, so it would be misleading to lump performances across the whole season as equal data points, you want to be following the performance trend over time.

Folks quote a 200M spend:
- First consider the net spend (i.e. how much he had to recover in sales and wages to make those signings)
- Also consider the fact that he didn't spend all of that over the summer did he? He spent it over the course of the season.
- And even if everything was spent at the start, new and old players would not be expected to gel and show their best as a team from day 1 (this is not FIFA). So again, you should see if there is a trend of improvement over the course of the season. In this case, these is.

AFC NimbleThumb · Jul 24, 2020

He'sRaldo said:
This is the sort of thread that makes people vehemently supporting Ole look bad.

We keep saying don't look at his legend status when judging him as a manager, this is proof that some just can't see past it and are thus too biased to make an accurate assessment.

Words.Out of.Mouth.

He’s now our manager; his history with the club as a player is irrelevant.

Judge a man based on the role he’s in as we judged him when he played; you don’t go round saying players are crap but he may one day do a job as coach so let’s be nice to him.

Eddy_JukeZ · Jul 24, 2020

I'm glad that Giggs will likely never be the manager.

It'd be 10x worse than it is now. Some people never separate the manager and player when it comes to Ole. Can't imagine how much worse it'd be for Giggs.

lolok · Jul 24, 2020

amolbhatia50k said:
Stop being so sensitive. A Manchester United manager should be highly scrunitised. Ole is no different. People here pretend as if he is to United what Messi is to Barcelona. And even then the person should be critiqued as just another manager.

This X 1,000. So it's ok to scrutinize players, but not the manager? The manager who with a win will end up with 66 points, which is the same number of points as last year even after crazy amounts of spending. The manager who has made quite a few suspect tactical decisions the past 4 games. Ole has the luck of the Irish, because he could backdoor his way into the CL with a meager 64 points. The same # of points Moyes got and finished 7th.

Maybe it's been the past 7 years of suck, that has brought everyone's expectations down. But we are Manchester United and we should be fighting for titles, not the Arsene Wenger 4th place trophy. I know Rome wasn't built in a day, but in the end, results matter. With a win, we will have 66 points, the same as last year.

At Manchester United, we expect World Class players and a World Class manager.

United have gotten 65 points in their last 42 EPL matches. After Ole's hot start, which was probably attributable to Jose being gone-- the results just haven't been there.

You think it's bad now OP--- if United lose to Leicester who are missing 5 KEY players on Sunday--- RedCafe is going to lose it's $h!t. But Sunday it's fate for Maguire to finally head in a goal on a corner in the 90th minute to scrape a draw.

el3mel · Jul 24, 2020

Eddy_JukeZ said:
I'm glad that Giggs will likely never be the manager.

It'd be 10x worse than it is now. Some people never separate the manager and player when it comes to Ole. Can't imagine how much worse it'd be for Giggs.

It might happen one day, why not ?

Zlatan 7 · Jul 24, 2020

lolok said:
This X 1,000. So it's ok to scrutinize players, but not the manager? The manager who with a win will end up with 66 points, which is the same number of points as last year even after crazy amounts of spending. The manager who has made quite a few suspect tactical decisions the past 4 games. Ole has the luck of the Irish, because he could backdoor his way into the CL with a meager 64 points. The same # of points Moyes got and finished 7th.

Maybe it's been the past 7 years of suck, that has brought everyone's expectations down. But we are Manchester United and we should be fighting for titles, not the Arsene Wenger 4th place trophy. I know Rome wasn't built in a day, but in the end, results matter. With a win, we will have 66 points, the same as last year.

At Manchester United, we expect World Class players and a World Class manager.

United have gotten 65 points in their last 42 EPL matches. After Ole's hot start, which was probably attributable to Jose being gone-- the results just haven't been there.

You think it's bad now OP--- if United lose to Leicester who are missing 5 KEY players on Sunday--- RedCafe is going to lose it's $h!t. But Sunday it's fate for Maguire to finally head in a goal on a corner in the 90th minute to scrape a draw.

Man Utd 1999 - 79pts
Leicester 2016 - 81pts

man, how shit was that treble winning team.
fecking points, points, points, they can’t be compared across seasons

Revan · Jul 24, 2020

Zlatan 7 said:
Man Utd 1999 - 79pts
Leicester 2016 - 81pts

man, how shit was that treble winning team.
fecking points, points, points, they can’t be compared across seasons

Comparing teams (in points) that played 2 decades apart is ridiculous. Comparing them in two years (like this United vs that of last year) it is totally legit. I mean, show a single argument why that might be wrong, or how suddenly the league became so much more competitive during this year and if that is the case, then how Liverpool walked it with 7 games remaining.

Total lack of respect for an absolute club legend (another Ole thread)

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