Finishing 3rd, 33 points off PL winners, and no Trophy (yet) is utter rubbish and shouldn't be celebrated...

First half I'm ole's critics

But fair is fair, he finished 3rd while my limit for United Manager is 4th (5th due to him being a legend). As with Mourinho, no if and buts, a 3rd is a 3rd and he deserves to be given next season and we'll see from there.

I'm glad to be proven wrong, but this is only the beginning, next season we will see how far we've come

I enjoy watching this team and like them. Definitely the most fun I’ve had watching United since Fergie.

Not celebration but I’m looking forward next season. The right investment is crucial.
Happy for Ole because he gambled with thin squads and paid off.

It's not utter rubbish. It's below par but the team are on the way up. Who's celebrating? "No Trophy" eh? Europa cup is not done yet.

Wrong headline.

I think that given how atrocious we looked last season and the start of this, the celebrations are mainly due to relief and the fact we are clearly moving in the right direction!

However, I hope Ole gave the players a bit of a roasting after the game and made it clear that third is by no means an achievement for this club and the fact that they all need to step up next season! I’d be very worried if there was celebrating in the dressing room as we need to move beyond that mindset!

I get that people are scared at the fact standards have dropped in terms of what people are pleased with but that’s what happens in football - it’s all about context.

The fact is being 9th in December 14 points behind Leicester and 10 behind Chelsea with Arsenal, Sheffield Utd, Spurs, Wolves all ahead of us - to finish above them all and only behind the clearly superior top 2 is a good achievement and very promising for the next few years.

It’s definitely concerning that expectations are so low, but we adapt to a new reality and take every little celebration when we can. That’s what football is about so to speak.

Saying that, I fully agree. We had the third best team in the league in August and finished third in a slightly dodgy way helped by the pandemic, so all in all exactly what is expected. There is absolutely nothing to celebrate and it was the least we could expect, the competition is weaker than ever. Chelsea slightly better than expected but with a piss poor defensive unit, Spurs and Arsenal much worse than anticipated for sure. Leicester delivered the goods, Wolves to a certain degree as well, Everton hopeless.

This is certainly not a good season yet, but let’s not forget that we’re still in the Europa. If we win it, then we’re successful. We finished 2nd under Mourinho, won the Europa League and scored just as many goals as this season. No competition.

Rhyme Animal said:

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/celebrations.456448/

And Crossy, don't stoop to the personal insults mate - you're better than that, and besides, how can I have no mates when you're my pal?

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This is true mate, you know I love you really. Keep on keeping on.

P.S. I missed that thread, I'll have a gander.

Rhyme Animal said:

Yeah, but my point is that the far more recent and relevant of those examples - Klopp - didn't really have 'a couple of seasons of pain'...

He reached a European final in his first half season, and then finished 4th and reached another European final in his first full season!

This narrative is dangerous and has to stop.

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This you?
Ole has done the first part of the text you highlighted, hopefully he can do the latter! Either way, to get us back into the top four having sacked off most of the deadwood left by Jose and Van Gaal is great progress for now.
It’s clear to see people are happy because he’s done a lot of the things people on here wanted for years. Martial and Rashford playing together banging goals in (with greenwood as an added bonus) Pogba back playing and more committed than when he fell out with Jose, Bruno being the creative spark we’ve lacked for years.
The progression is there to see and that’s all we’re asking for, keep getting better and we’ll eventually get to where we belong.

Tbh, from DDG going into tears against New castle to finishing 3rd is a remarkable turnaround. After Bruno signing, utd are unbeaten in PL. For once, utd players showed character and nerve to get the job done in the final day. Without top 4, all the recent good work would have been wasted. People like me are not celebrating 3rd place finish but really excited about the future for the first time post SAF especially if Woodward delivers a good window. It is an opportunity to close the gap that probably would not have been possible without yesterday's result.

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Bore off and find someplace else to moan.

Our goal this season wasn't winning the league. It was to finish top 4, and achieved that it.

I think playing the CL next season is worth celebrating!

I'm thrilled that we managed to claw back a 14 point gap and achieve third in the final 10-12 matches of the season. We went unbeaten in 19 or 20 games in the process.

That is objectively impressive. And it shows progress.

Crack on with a few astute signings and I'll be optimistic about the new season, something I haven't felt in many years.

That, however, is a far cry from "celebrating".

Offside said:

I get that people are scared at the fact standards have dropped in terms of what people are pleased with but that’s what happens in football - it’s all about context.

The fact is being 9th in December 14 points behind Leicester and 10 behind Chelsea with Arsenal, Sheffield Utd, Spurs, Wolves all ahead of us - to finish above them all and only behind the clearly superior top 2 is a good achievement and very promising for the next few years.

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On top of that, we showed excellent levels of consistency, with a 19 match unbeaten run in all comps. Not to mention our current unbeaten run in the league that will carry over to next season. The progress we've shown from the start of the season to the end is what has the majority of fans excited. Onwards and upwards.

The irony of making this topic while we're still in the Europe League with a decent chance of winning the trophy is something that made me chuckle mind.

It's been a great season since the break.

We can all have high expectations but a sense of entitlement doesn't guarantee you anything. The reality is in football there are hundreds of other clubs vying for success, just because United once had SAF for 26 years doesn't mean we're automatically guaranteed further success.

The world has changed. Look at how long Liverpool had to wait. Look at teams like Spurs and City now. If you want success now you have to build and earn it.

We’ve survived to fight another day. A strong finish to the season with clear improvements, plus the addition of Bruno, third place finish and a chance in the Europa. It’s a foundation that can be built upon whereas finishing 5th would’ve devastated our chances of adding genuine quality to the team.

I completely forgot a very telling stat in my long'ish post:

The only team to take a point off Manchester United in the top5 this season is Liverpool. Chelsea, Manchester City and Leicester we all beat back to back.

Rhyme Animal said:

Check our points from last season...

Check our points from Moyes' season...

There are plus points sure, as there were at previous times during this endless rebuild (@Tom Cato ), but real, objective, tangible progress? Not really.

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But the bottom line is we finished third compared to last season and still have a shot at the Europa.

Again it’s not like we’re on the verge of winning a league title I get that but if we have a good summer window we could at least start closing the gap.

Rhyme Animal said:

I'm reading lots of posters essentially celebrating what has been one of the crappest seasons overall in years, and it's hypocritical imo as well as a little pathetic.

This has been a fecking crap season, dippers winning the PL, no trophies yet and with Utd closer in points to relegation zone than to the top of the PL.

I've seen multiple posters claim this is their favourite season post Fergie (!!??). Since Fergie retired we've...

Finished 2nd - 19 points off winning the PL

Won an FA Cup

Won the Europa League

Won the League Cup

How the feck is finishing 3rd, no trophy, 33 points off the top, 32 points off the relegation zone now something to be fecking celebrated?

Ole should no doubt keep the job after securing CL footy, but please, please don't put this manager's plight above that of Utd itself, because it's an easy slide into mediocrity.

There are plus points about this season - few decent signings, one really special signing, more goals - but there's nothing that any fan of Man Utd should be actively celebrating.

It was a crap season, and the attitude should be, 'must do better next time', not 'that'll do', and certainly not, 'yay, what an achievement!'.

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Needs more doom and gloom

First, great to have you posting back on the forum, as I told you earlier, you are one of my favorite posters here.

Second, you will get slaughtered for this, but I agree about one thing and that there's nothing really to celebrate about finishing 3rd with 66 points and anyone doing this need to get a grip. We are United. There were some here mocking the idea of talking about 2nd under Mourinho, however I expect them to not stop talking about 3rd for the next year or so.

However considering the circumstances of the season, it looked near impossible for us to even finish 5th at one point so we did really, really well to turn on the tables in second half and jump over both Chelsea and Leicester, and Ole and the players deserve credit for that.

Our overall form post the restart gives big hope for us that if we manage to copy this form over a full course or a season, we might be in for something very good. Our form post restart in the league was 6 wind and 3 draws, and which is very close to a title winning form.

It has been a crap season but ended very well and gives us something to look forward to next season. I'm pleased with Ole and the players currently.

Rhyme Animal said:

I'm reading lots of posters essentially celebrating what has been one of the crappest seasons overall in years, and it's hypocritical imo as well as a little pathetic.

This has been a fecking crap season, dippers winning the PL, no trophies yet and with Utd closer in points to relegation zone than to the top of the PL.

I've seen multiple posters claim this is their favourite season post Fergie (!!??). Since Fergie retired we've...

Finished 2nd - 19 points off winning the PL

Won an FA Cup

Won the Europa League

Won the League Cup

How the feck is finishing 3rd, no trophy, 33 points off the top, 32 points off the relegation zone now something to be fecking celebrated?

Ole should no doubt keep the job after securing CL footy, but please, please don't put this manager's plight above that of Utd itself, because it's an easy slide into mediocrity.

There are plus points about this season - few decent signings, one really special signing, more goals - but there's nothing that any fan of Man Utd should be actively celebrating.

It was a crap season, and the attitude should be, 'must do better next time', not 'that'll do', and certainly not, 'yay, what an achievement!'.

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It’s the best season overall since SAF. That is cause for optimism.

Rhyme Animal said:

The thread is about people celebrating this season at this point - https://www.redcafe.net/threads/celebrations.456448/

Title should say 'No Trophy yet' to be fair though.

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It's not finishing third that has us celebrating (not sure that's even the right word), it's that for the first time in six long years, we look like we're moving forwards with a young competitive side.

It's an exciting time to be a United fan, and God knows we haven't had much to be excited about for years.

Get on board

We have a weak squad, we've had to rebuild and fight our way back through the season.

Against all odds we've caught and overtaken Chelsea and Leicester, what's not to like?

We deserve to be happy with the way the team has put together an amazing unbeaten run, we got an FA semi final and potentially could win the Europa league.

Yes we all want to be challenging for 1st position but our team just isn't at that level yet, so baby steps. Getting top 4 was the priority this year and we did it.

Rhyme Animal said:

The thread is about people celebrating this season at this point - https://www.redcafe.net/threads/celebrations.456448/

Title should say 'No Trophy yet' to be fair though.

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Why shouldn't people celebrate. The players and Managing Staff deserve credit for getting us to 3rd. I've honestly enjoyed watching us play football again, that alone is reason for celebration.

Onwards and upwards, now the club have to back Ole and we push the expectation bar up another level for next season. I actually think we'll win Europa Cup as well, which will be a great confidence boost for the lads. If nothing else with the pressure off and a bit of a break our players should be able to bring back that gorgeous football we had a few weeks back

I think this current team needed to find stability before going for the bigger objectives. Having been in freefall for the past few years and with none of us knowing when the club will start to look like the United of old, this finish may not be the final product but at least it serves the dual purpose of giving the club a platform to kick off from while also giving the players a mental boost going into what will be an equally tough next season.

We're not celebrating third place, we're celebrating the start of a progression towards bigger things.

Also, trying to extrapolate anything from our points finish is decidedly difficult given that our season has been the textbook definition of a mixed bag. We've had a horrible beginning and an incredibly strong finish. Those two are absolute polar opposites. There's no telling if our form falls back to average or if our current form carries over to next season. If it does carry over to next season, then that right there is title winning form.

What did the OP predict MU would finish?

Rhyme Animal said:

It really isn't...

This is basically what I'm warning against in the OP.

Now, if we win the Europa, then it's at least up there with previous recent seasons - but as it stands, it isn't. It isn't close to our best season post Fergie.

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For the first time people are looking forward to our games. It's the first time we've put a squad together that looks like it could go somewhere. I'm not sure how you can't look at some of our play and not be excited. It's clearly better than it has been since SAF.

People are obviously not celebrating 3rd. People are celebrating the progress that 3rd represents that saw the club catch up on the top sides while going undefeated for 14 games in the league and opens up for the future with more money and attraction that the champions league provides.


The opening post does nothing more than portray the thread maker as out of touch with the clubs predicament before the club now turned things around and got 3rd.
It isn't that standards have dropped for what fans want. The club has dropped and we as fans can choose to break it down by being miserable or help build it with accepting the situation being a challenge and praising when progress is made and faith is partly restored on the way back to where we all want it to be.

Red Company said:

Great, great post!

*Starts Applauding*

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Thank you! That was nice of you to say

Absolutely agree with the sentiment of the post but we need to apply some context. Given where we were pre covid this is a very good achievement post Covid and incredibly important for the club.

It’s not like the club are rushing to give ole a contract extension. Next season we will need to be challenging for the title.

Rhyme Animal said:

There are plus points about this season - few decent signings, one really special signing, more goals - but there's nothing that any fan of Man Utd should be actively celebrating.

It was a crap season, and the attitude should be, 'must do better next time', not 'that'll do', and certainly not, 'yay, what an achievement!'.

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Reality check; we are not the United of old. We no longer set the standard. We have a lot to learn about what it takes to do that.

We finished 6th last season. We looked at risk of a serious spiral of decline earlier this season. Given where we began, we have shown a big improvement in a number of critical areas and we've given ourselves a springboard. We look a proper team again, albeit on that's thin in places. Should we return to the top, we will look at this season as when those foundations were laid. We have something great to look forward to next season, although I think we're still 2 years off a serious title challenge.

We should have ambition yes, but let's recognise positives where we see them.

Rhyme Animal said:

It really isn't...

This is basically what I'm warning against in the OP.

Now, if we win the Europa, then it's at least up there with previous recent seasons - but as it stands, it isn't. It isn't close to our best season post Fergie.

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So what's the point in starting a thread saying our season is utterly rubbish and comparing it to other seasons when it's not even finished?

As it stands, it's our 2nd best season post-SAF in the league. We reached the semi-finals in the two domestic competitions, hardly an 'utterly rubbish' showing.

At least wait and see how we do in the Europa league, which we're favourites to win, before making attention seeking posts.

It's worth reading these two threads:

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/next-season-expectations.446710/
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/mid-season-assessment-and-your-expectations.452391/

That should give you a sense of perspective when you analysis us finishing 3rd. Most were negative about our chances of finishing top 4 before the season began, pretty sure that would be even worse when Pogba's injury hit and ruled him out for months.

Rhyme Animal said:

It really isn't...

This is basically what I'm warning against in the OP.

Now, if we win the Europa, then it's at least up there with previous recent seasons - but as it stands, it isn't. It isn't close to our best season post Fergie.

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Winning the Europa won’t make a blind bit of difference, though. Your issue, and I think it’s been pointed out to you before, is that you see things in black and white. A Europa win would be nice but it won’t really change the bigger picture.

We’ve never finished a season in this sort of form. We’ve never been scoring goals as easily. We’ve never had a squad of players so obviously in tune with the management. We’ve never had a player like Greenwood kicking on within the first team. We’ve never had a player like Bruno in the form like he is. Not really; not so consistently.

People are happy because the bigger picture is significantly happier. We finished second under Mourinho and I wanted him out before that summer. I watched the circus at Sevilla. I endured the dour, dismal football that lacked identity after two full years in the gig. Look at point tallies and final standings all you want; it tells half the story. I look at that second place and see a manager who had already jacked it in by February. What transpired thereafter only confirmed what I already knew was to happen. I was far from the only one, too.

There’s a reason more supporters are clearly quite happy with how the season has unfolded and there’s a lot more to it than just Ole being manager. Yes, there’s an inherent will to see him succeed (or at least there should be) but he’s the only manager we’ve had post-Ferguson that actually does the things that appear to make the most sense. I mean, just look at the turnover of players in that time. He gets it.

Honestly, with the right summer window (which is on the board now) things are going to get better. Try and enjoy it.

Rhyme Animal said:

Standards have dropped though.

The combination of the cretinous Woodward and the (genuinely) lovable Ole have equaled the perfect storm for standards dropping lower than at any previous point in recent years.

That's why so many are so happy - because of the low standards.

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What do you mean by 'standards'. If you mean 'ambition' - I don't think that has changed and I agree we need to keep our ambition high. But if you mean 'all the big and little things that we need to do excellently every day' - we're still miles off that. Liverpool and City unfortunately set those standards. But we have started to close some of those gaps this season, and that's a good thing.