The key to these transfers is not saving £10/£15m its getting them done early so that the player can settle down in his new surroundings and the manager can start planning for the season knowing what he has at his disposal
Jadon Sancho| Staying at Dortmund for now
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
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I'm also not convinced this will happen. But to play both sides.... If it is true that he misses England and wants to play in the PL, then Man United is the obvious choice. He was a youth player at city, so I assume his family is based there. United now offer Champions League football. United also have a number of young players too. I've seen from his Social Media that he's often hanging around with friends who are wearing United shirts, so I'd say that's his crowd.
The other options if we wants CL football with an English team are Man City and Liverpool. And if either one went balls-deep to get him, I'd imagine they'd become favorites. But towards the end of his time at city he refused to train and didn't leave on the best terms. This was under Guardiola still, so i'd be surprised if that's a happy marriage. Also for all of city's spending, I think their record buy is still well short of what Dortmund would want for Sancho.
Liverpool - the chance to join the champions. Close to home. If they went for it, again, I can see them quickly becoming favorites. But again, I don't think Klopp is the type who'd want to spend such a chunk of his budget on one player. Especially as then, Sancho would have to be a starter when fit and it breaks up his trio of Salah, Mane and Firmino who have won him both a CL and PL in the last year. All are still in their 20's too.
I've written a lot here. So any feedback on what I said?
Once bitten twice shy.
How many transfers have we seen that look to be in this "formality" stage where all we're talking about "the personal terms are agreed, it's just the last details with the club" or "he'll probably have a medical on X date" - for it then to just completely fall through.
I could probably sit here listing them for 30 minutes and still forget some. Last summer there was a space of 2 weeks where De Ligt looked like a genuine target, Dybala looked like it was going to get done in a swap for Lukaku, Morata was practically done - talk of a medical, terms agreed with Madrid etc at various stage, then one day poof. Griezmann is maybe the most similar to this one, where it seemed we were just waiting for CL qualification, the player was desperate to join us... then one day the stories out of nowhere came out that United "had no interest" - and that was that.
Wouldn't surprise me at all if this follows the same pattern where something goes wrong behind the scenes, United get fed up of Dortmund not lowering the price or something. Then the "United are looking at other targets after failing to reach a breakthrough with Dortmund over the fee for Jadon Sancho." briefs.
Are some people still suggesting Sancho doesn't want to join United despite the very strong reports in all areas of the media personal terms have been agreed for some time?
Literally the only factors to potentially hinder the deal are a) United not getting CL football and b) the fee.
First has been secured and the fee looks to be where we are heading now. No club tries to agree a fee for a player that doesn't want to move. I mean that's common sense to everyone surely?
Literally the only factors to potentially hinder the deal are a) United not getting CL football and b) the fee.
First has been secured and the fee looks to be where we are heading now. No club tries to agree a fee for a player that doesn't want to move. I mean that's common sense to everyone surely?
CL Football, more money, his home country, playing with friends from the national team, family and real friends on his doorstep.
What is there not to like for Sancho?
Now do the same for Dortmund...
Today's gonna be a big day. I feel it in my feelings 
I bloody hope so. Would be nice to have some big news to break up the week!Today's gonna be a big day. I feel it in my feelings
Sancho doesn't look a player suited to Guardiola's system and if I'm not mistaken Guardiola openly saying "Sancho wasn't up to the challenge" means he's v likely not to buy him and Sancho himself is well within his right to say "feck off then mate".I'm also not convinced this will happen. But to play both sides.... If it is true that he misses England and wants to play in the PL, then Man United is the obvious choice. He was a youth player at city, so I assume his family is based there. United now offer Champions League football. United also have a number of young players too. I've seen from his Social Media that he's often hanging around with friends who are wearing United shirts, so I'd say that's his crowd.
The other options if we wants CL football with an English team are Man City and Liverpool. And if either one went balls-deep to get him, I'd imagine they'd become favorites. But towards the end of his time at city he refused to train and didn't leave on the best terms. This was under Guardiola still, so i'd be surprised if that's a happy marriage. Also for all of city's spending, I think their record buy is still well short of what Dortmund would want for Sancho.
Liverpool - the chance to join the champions. Close to home. If they went for it, again, I can see them quickly becoming favorites. But again, I don't think Klopp is the type who'd want to spend such a chunk of his budget on one player. Especially as then, Sancho would have to be a starter when fit and it breaks up his trio of Salah, Mane and Firmino who have won him both a CL and PL in the last year. All are still in their 20's too.
I've written a lot here. So any feedback on what I said?
Liverpool can't afford Sancho at that fee and it would make terrible sense to do so. The last area on their pitch they need to improve on is a creative forward on the right.
Not many
Yeah he was a solid target until it was reported he was set on elsewhere. He was a solid target for us, PSG, Juventus. We were always outside favourites in a deal, because De Ligt had no affiliation with England over the other clubs, and we weren't even in the Champions League. That is nothing like Sancho.
Pretty much of all of these are wrong. 1) It was reported that Dybala was offered by Juventus as a swap route, we were never into Dybala before that and thats why it came as such a surprise. Nothing was agreed between us and Dybala either, again which makes it completely different to Sancho. Dybala simply didn't want to leave Juventus and come to England. 2) Morata we never had fees agreed with Madrid and we clearly wanted Lukaku more, which is why he was signed before Morata went on to Chelsea. It was obvious that he was a backburner target, again nothing like Sancho. 3) Griezman at the time decided to stay with Atletico to help them with the transfer ban and move on the next year. He missed his own chance. Again, not like Sancho. We never had fees or personal terms agreed re. Griezmann. And unlike Sancho, Griezmann wanted to stay an extra year after the transfer ban news.
Sanchos pattern is not like the players you named. The only pattern its falling similar to is AWB and Maguire. And probably Bruno from January too.
"Clubs far apart", "Personal terms agreed", Player wants move", "Fee agreed".
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Absolutely man. This one has a different feel about it for me too, like no denial about at a transfer from either side (only denial was about a fee) and the news from a few sources over the last couple of days that both sides are working hard to come up with an acceptable fee / structure of payments show it's definitely a go-er. Be brilliant to see the words 'Fee Agreed' today!
Today is the day we put in another bid and get rejected.
This will be done and dusted before the end of next week, though.
This will be done and dusted before the end of next week, though.
It all sounds to good to be true.
It all sounds to good to be true.
Agreed, it's been a while since we've had a "clear run" at someone and they look like they want to come. When you think of De ligt last year, we ultimately ended up disappointed as he chose someone else, so it's a nice change. I think the main thing for Dortmund is they like to get replacements sorted before they go ahead. When you look at how quickly the wrapped up Meunier when Hakimi wasn't an option, so I'm looking for Dortmund news to be the green light for me
Vs weaker teams, we probably can play one of them as the #10 in a 4-2-3-1 but you probably want your midfield to be Fred/McTominay in that situation. Vs tougher teams with the assumption Bruno is unavailable, you probably push Pogba into the Bruno role.
Fergie had some massive outlays. Rooney and Rio Ferdinand were both record transfers for a teenager and a defender at the time made, a less successful example is the outlay for Veron. Ferguson's last truly great value buys were probably Vidic and Evra (and you could argue RVP, but that was an older player forcing a transfer to a particular team with one year left). The only real foundational piece he bought for us near the end was De Gea, which was a very expensive purchase for a goalie at the time. A lot of the great 07/08 team we either paid significant amounts at the time for, for key players (Rooney, Tevez Loan fee, Ferdinand), Ronaldo was really cheap in retrospect, but that was a massive fee for an unproven teenager in the market at the time or were homegrown. Even guys from within the league like Carrick we paid pretty high amounts relative to current transfer fees. The only real value buys who were in that first 11 were Vidic, VDS and Evra. Even squad options like Nani, Anderson, Hargreaves were quite expensive.
It's just the overall transfer market has exploded in the past 15 to 20 years. We are talking about a world (at least pre-covid) where comparable young players to Sancho have gone for about the same (Joao Felix, Dembele, Mbappe). Now, the post-Fergie regime hasn't earned blind faith for massive outlays on transfers. But, then again, that hasn't earned blind faith on value purchases either. The best purchase post Fergie value to pound is probably Martial, which was considered a massive fee at the time.
1. Environment.
a. Back closer to home. England.
b. United and Ole foster young players, giving majority of them chances after chances generally even if they perform poorly and being inconsistent. Welcoming environment.
c. Easier to get game times and be part of best 11 here than at other clubs. Pool's front 3 clicks too much to make changes, and Chelsea had their influx of ridiculous many new attacking players. He also had his previous story with City, so maybe less likely want to go there.
d. Had good friends and teammates here. Welcoming environment.
e. Will be part of our young squad. If he's idealistic, he would want to join and be part of this huge potential squad.
2. Competitions
CL football and EPL, best tough league to prove himself more and get greater reputations. Nothing else for him to prove with Dortmund isn't it.
3. Trophies
Time to win other trophies. Bayern is too far ahead there to win league. Better chances with United for EPL now with Bruno.
4. Miscellaneous
Money, salaries and lucrative contracts. Also his name will receive huge boosts just by being a 'United player' if he seeks grater fame in social media.
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That said, he's still very young, advantage of age. No need to rush. Wouldn't surprise me if he decided to stay at Dortmund even if they are known as selling clubs. Possibly he want to win Bundesliga first before jumping ship.
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Yeah, Dortmund has found the perfect middle ground in the market. They are a constant CL team, develop young talent, and sell them off. They keep good veterans around, its not like its only youth, but its not guys on massive wages, its people who want to play for Dortmund and in some cases go back. They attract top young talents with tons of offers to go to them, knowing they will get time and experience, and then be able to make there move to a big/rich club in 1 to 3 years time where they will get massive wages.
Like some have said, there isn't a lot of options so I think United can get the price down a bit. Around 85 million is still a huge fee, especially in this climate and Jadon's contract is getting closer to ending where it will be Sane money next year or nothing the year after.
Problem for United though as time goes on is other clubs will come into play next year and situations could change at other English clubs or he could be convinced to try Spain but right now the United move is pretty much the only one, the player wants to join, United are offering a large fee so it's up to Dortmund to come out of 2018/19.
Problem for United though as time goes on is other clubs will come into play next year and situations could change at other English clubs or he could be convinced to try Spain but right now the United move is pretty much the only one, the player wants to join, United are offering a large fee so it's up to Dortmund to come out of 2018/19.
We tend to break nice things.
Anyone having any doubts whatsoever about the Sancho deal should know one thing and one thing only, covid happened.
Dortmund are not in a position to act majorly tough in negotiations. It is clear they want a substantial amount and they will get it rightly so. But eventually they’ll have to accept the best we can offer. Even if it’s not as per their expectations.
This deal will not take too long. Should be announced by next week latest.
Dortmund are not in a position to act majorly tough in negotiations. It is clear they want a substantial amount and they will get it rightly so. But eventually they’ll have to accept the best we can offer. Even if it’s not as per their expectations.
This deal will not take too long. Should be announced by next week latest.
Hope you're right, because if Solskjaer identifies a target, I want him to get him.
I do think you're talking about the failed moves in hindsight though, rather than how they were being reported at the time. For example, Morata was not once mentioned as a backburner target at the time, especially with £60-70m being the fee reported. When we agreed the fee for Lukaku, it was out of the blue.
Guys a genuine star. He’s had double figures in goals and assists two seasons running.
Players who got at least 10+ goals and 10+ assists this season: Messi, Sancho, KDB, Bruno Fernandes (two leagues), Salah, Gnabry, Oyarzabal.
Players who got at least 10+ goals and 10+ assists last season: Messi, Hazard, Bruno Fernandes, Sancho, Nicolas Pepe, Di Maria, Dries Mertens, Sarabia
So... yeah.
There was never the same sustained reporting, for this amount of time, with any of those people, they had an air of unreality about them.I'm also not convinced this will happen. But to play both sides.... If it is true that he misses England and wants to play in the PL, then Man United is the obvious choice. He was a youth player at city, so I assume his family is based there. United now offer Champions League football. United also have a number of young players too. I've seen from his Social Media that he's often hanging around with friends who are wearing United shirts, so I'd say that's his crowd.
The other options if we wants CL football with an English team are Man City and Liverpool. And if either one went balls-deep to get him, I'd imagine they'd become favorites. But towards the end of his time at city he refused to train and didn't leave on the best terms. This was under Guardiola still, so i'd be surprised if that's a happy marriage. Also for all of city's spending, I think their record buy is still well short of what Dortmund would want for Sancho.
Liverpool - the chance to join the champions. Close to home. If they went for it, again, I can see them quickly becoming favorites. But again, I don't think Klopp is the type who'd want to spend such a chunk of his budget on one player. Especially as then, Sancho would have to be a starter when fit and it breaks up his trio of Salah, Mane and Firmino who have won him both a CL and PL in the last year. All are still in their 20's too.
I've written a lot here. So any feedback on what I said?
Once bitten twice shy.
How many transfers have we seen that look to be in this "formality" stage where all we're talking about "the personal terms are agreed, it's just the last details with the club" or "he'll probably have a medical on X date" - for it then to just completely fall through.
I could probably sit here listing them for 30 minutes and still forget some. Last summer there was a space of 2 weeks where De Ligt looked like a genuine target, Dybala looked like it was going to get done in a swap for Lukaku, Morata was practically done - talk of a medical, terms agreed with Madrid etc at various stage, then one day poof. Griezmann is maybe the most similar to this one, where it seemed we were just waiting for CL qualification, the player was desperate to join us... then one day the stories out of nowhere came out that United "had no interest" - and that was that.
Wouldn't surprise me at all if this follows the same pattern where something goes wrong behind the scenes, United get fed up of Dortmund not lowering the price or something. Then the "United are looking at other targets after failing to reach a breakthrough with Dortmund over the fee for Jadon Sancho." briefs.
Compared with other top sides, there is a Sancho shaped hole on the right side of United’s attack. If he wants to come back to England they are by far his best option, especially with Chelsea having secured other targets.
But it quickly transpired (even when Lukaku came) that he was the target for us and Morata was left behind by choice (not obligation).
We gazumped Chelsea to get Lukaku so the Morata example there is not relevant to Sancho. Unless of course we are looking to take another right winger away from a club who is better than Sancho is, which I find highly unlikely.
When he said “it’s over”. I basically correlated that to him saying it’s a done deal.Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
The conviction in his tone is quite reassuring!
FYI the other players he mentioned that we should target were a CM such as Partey, Saul or Ndidi. As well as a CB such as Koulibaly or Ben Godfrey from Norwich.
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There's no doubt in my mine we're getting Sancho, it's just a question of how much he's costing us. With another two signings to follow ( hopefully ) we may just fight for top 3 if we can keep away from injuries. Our bench not exactly solid in that department.
COME ON YOU REDS .
COME ON YOU REDS .
Not sure if you're joking but it means nothing like that. He's basically saying "game over" as in the opposition won't have any chance.When he said “it’s over”. I basically correlated that to him saying it’s a done deal.Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
The conviction in his tone is quite reassuring!
Rio getting excited doesn't really add any weight to it, he's been on the Sancho train for a long time (It'll happen though)
Aye, it makes a nice change. I wanted us to get De Ligt last year but I did think that he didn't seem sure and it always felt he might end up picking another club to move to. He's coming, it's a matter of time broAgreed, it's been a while since we've had a "clear run" at someone and they look like they want to come. When you think of De ligt last year, we ultimately ended up disappointed as he chose someone else, so it's a nice change. I think the main thing for Dortmund is they like to get replacements sorted before they go ahead. When you look at how quickly the wrapped up Meunier when Hakimi wasn't an option, so I'm looking for Dortmund news to be the green light for me
Obviously just having a laugh mate! Anything to satisfy the muppet inside me
Aye, it makes a nice change. I wanted us to get De Ligt last year but I did think that he didn't seem sure and it always felt he might end up picking another club to move to. He's coming, it's a matter of time bro
Was the De Ligt "saga" really only last year? It feels a lifetime ago.
Word.
I am not even feeling the excitement. It is obvious we will sign him. We have let everyone that cares to know that we are after him. I can't remember the last time that happened and we did not sign the player. Now both clubs are talking. It might take time but this deal will happen.
It also means we can play 2 in the middle if we are pummeling lower sides for a breakthrough.When he said “it’s over”. I basically correlated that to him saying it’s a done deal.Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
The conviction in his tone is quite reassuring!
FYI the other players he mentioned that we should target were a CM such as Partey, Saul or Ndidi. As well as a CB such as Koulibaly or Ben Godfrey from Norwich.
A CB cant just shift over if they have Martial and Greenwood making their runs in the box and its not like we will get outnunbered in midfield since their DMs will be back covering the ball into the front 2 anyway.
Arsenal did this very well against us last season in the Xhaka weird goal game. It isolates the defence into 1 v 1 battles all across the line.
City have a poor defence Now compared to their best!
I love the fact we won’t have to wait 2 months for this signing if it will ever happen. We should know in the next 2 weeks.
I would personally love to see us play with 2 Strikers in Martial & Greenwood.
Greenwood is probably more comfortable finishing with both feet but I think Martial can also comfortably finish with his weaker foot. Specially in 1v1 situations against the Goalie.
Anyways my point is their interchangeability would be a nightmare for both the CBs.
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— Twitter API (@user) date
Ridiculous add ons it is then
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— Twitter API (@user) date
He left City for Dortmund. Just to put this tweet into context
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