SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

11101

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https://www.boston.com/news/health/2020/07/27/coronavirus-heart/amp

"Two new studies from Germany paint a sobering picture of the toll that Covid-19 takes on the heart, raising the specter of long-term damage after people recover, even if their illness was not severe enough to require hospitalization.

One study examined the cardiac MRIs of 100 people who had recovered from Covid-19 and compared them to heart images from 100 people who were similar but not infected with the virus. Their average age was 49 and two-thirds of the patients had recovered at home. More than two months later, infected patients were more likely to have troubling cardiac signs than people in the control group: 78 patients showed structural changes to their hearts, 76 had evidence of a biomarker signaling cardiac injury typically found after a heart attack, and 60 had signs of inflammation.

These were relatively young, healthy patients who fell ill in the spring, Valentina Puntmann, who led the MRI study, pointed out in an interview. Many of them had just returned from ski vacations. None of them thought they had anything wrong with their hearts."
How does that compare to other respiratory diseases? It's known that simple flu causes some degree of heart damage and inflammation.
 

Pogue Mahone

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How does that compare to other respiratory diseases? It's known that simple flu causes some degree of heart damage and inflammation.

https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/40/3/415/303135

Smaller study but no clinically significant cardiac complications in these 30 patients with influenza.

Would need to see full publication from press release above though. Devil is always in the detail.
 

11101

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https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/40/3/415/303135

Smaller study but no clinically significant cardiac complications in these 30 patients with influenza.

Would need to see full publication from press release above though. Devil is always in the detail.
I wouldn't expect the CDC to publish it on their website if there wasn't something behind it:

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/highrisk/heartdisease.htm#

If you Google it there are dozens of reputable sources that discuss it.
 

Pogue Mahone

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I wouldn't expect the CDC to publish it on their website if there wasn't something behind it:

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/highrisk/heartdisease.htm#

If you Google it there are dozens of reputable sources that discuss it.
That link is basically telling us that people with pre-existing cardiac conditions are at greater risk of a bad outcome from flu. Getting very sick from a viral illness puts the CV system under stress. We know the same thing happens with covid because of the much higher mortality rate for people with “underlying conditions”.

This is different to what is implied in the article shared by @redshaw where young people with no history of heart disease end up with structural/biochemical changes due to damage to their heart. Myocarditis is a known complication of flu but relatively rare. The scary thing in that article was the very high incidence of cardiac damage. Like I said, though, we’re just reading a press release. The full publication might tell a different (less worrying) story.
 

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Is the rate heading towards an upwards trend again?
For deaths it's slightly higher than last week by 8, only 3 days in mind. Looking like it might be very similar to last week. The whole trend has been each week lower than the last.

Cases were more in the 600 range but have moved up to more days with 700-800. Overall this month has fattened out, we're stuck in this 600-800 cases range.
 

Anustart89

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Presumably case numbers much higher in March to April than April to July? Hence more deaths.

I’ve read those reports from Italian doctors talking about patients being less sick but had assumed it was down to less vulnerable people being affected. Would be delighted if there was any evidence that the virus really is getting weaker but am yet to see any. Apologies if this comes across as shitting on your positivity!
Anecdotal from my side but the cytokine storms we saw in March/April were nowhere to be seen in May/June, so I'd probably agree with that. It's in line with what the professor from Bergamo said as well.
 

Pogue Mahone

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Anecdotal from my side but the cytokine storms we saw in March/April were nowhere to be seen in May/June, so I'd probably agree with that. It's in line with what the professor from Bergamo said as well.
Great news!

Any theories being discussed about why you’re seeing this change in disease severity? Younger/fitter people presenting? Or something else going on?
 

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And the daily number of new cases is showing a significant increase.
We are not even at the end of the beginning.
If you actually read into the data its hardly alarming, less scare mongering would be great.
 

golden_blunder

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Didn't hear a thing, unsure if that's a good thing or not. I woke up to find the metal door handle ripped in half outside and my back gate open. Luckily the type of lock I have defeated them or they got disturbed and scarpered. The police reckon they are after car keys and vehicle theft is on the massive increase since lockdown.
Get an Arlo system

Oh and jam one of these under your back gate at night. It’ll split their eardrums

Silverline 898104 Door Stop Alarm 1 x 9V (PP3) https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B015HMKRVC/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_e1DiFbK9Z3MH7
 
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dwd

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Get an Arlo system

Oh and jam one of these under your back gate at night. It’ll split their eardrums

Silverline 898104 Door Stop Alarm 1 x 9V (PP3) https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B015HMKRVC/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_e1DiFbK9Z3MH7
I already had a Ring Doorbell so I've whacked an outdoor camera to go over the gate today along with some of these which are surprisingly really bright (so far):

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07T8NBH6L/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

That door stop thing looks good, my gate opens outwards though so I don't think I can use it? Have you ever forgotten it was there before and deafened yourself?
 

golden_blunder

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I already had a Ring Doorbell so I've whacked an outdoor camera to go over the gate today along with some of these which are surprisingly really bright (so far):

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07T8NBH6L/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

That door stop thing looks good, my gate opens outwards though so I don't think I can use it? Have you ever forgotten it was there before and deafened yourself?
Ah right, good setup.
Yeah I’ve deafened myself and the family a few times alright. They are fantastic for the price. I have a few about 5 years and still working great
 

Champ

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We're testing more people, that's the reason for the increase.
Not strictly true, considering the testing figures is still hovering around the 150k mark which is where it's been for the last month and a bit.
 

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Not strictly true, considering the testing figures is still hovering around the 150k mark which is where it's been for the last month and a bit.
9000 extra tests in a week & 200 additional cases. It looks relatively flat. Plus there is a big shift in pillar one to pillar one testing in the volumes over the past month, which would indicate more community testing and in turn more people being tested in those numbers.

64% of today's cases was from Monday testing, only 5% from yesterday's tests.
 

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Dogs are in insane demand in Ireland right now. Most good breeders stopped breeding during lockdowns but the number of people wanting puppies sky rocketed so puppy farms have been exponentially increasing prices and scumbags have been stealing people's dogs and selling them for €2k. It's a massive problem at the moment.

We were looking for a puppy and the breed used to be around €500 for one. Right now they're €2500ish so we are just going to wait til next year rather than risk one from a puppy farm or stolen.
 

Anustart89

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Great news!

Any theories being discussed about why you’re seeing this change in disease severity? Younger/fitter people presenting? Or something else going on?
The patients have been around the same age as the ones in the beginning. I've no idea to be honest as to what's been causing the lower severity.

Our hospital only has one patient being treated for active Covid disease right now, and all cohort units have been closed for now, so it's pretty much back to normal in our area.
 

Pogue Mahone

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The patients have been around the same age as the ones in the beginning. I've no idea to be honest as to what's been causing the lower severity.

Our hospital only has one patient being treated for active Covid disease right now, and all cohort units have been closed for now, so it's pretty much back to normal in our area.
There comes a point at which enough anecdotes start to become evidence. It’s fascinating how we’re hearing medics from all over the world with similar stories. Fascinating and really encouraging. Hopefully we start to see some proper observational data soon, confirming what you’re seeing.
 

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Dogs are in insane demand in Ireland right now. Most good breeders stopped breeding during lockdowns but the number of people wanting puppies sky rocketed so puppy farms have been exponentially increasing prices and scumbags have been stealing people's dogs and selling them for €2k. It's a massive problem at the moment.

We were looking for a puppy and the breed used to be around €500 for one. Right now they're €2500ish so we are just going to wait til next year rather than risk one from a puppy farm or stolen.
Wtf. How fecking low can someone be stealing a dog from a family :/

Getting a dog is a really big commitment, so it is interesting that there is a surge in demand, it seems like it is a "spur of the moment" sort of thing. I am sure there must be plenty of dogs in rescue centres also looking for good homes.
 

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Record 700+ new infections in Victoria, mainly not unknown community transmission but old people's homes are getting badly hit and why the daily death toll is climbing - 13 yesteday in Victoria. NSW is getting 10-20 new cases per day with 2-4 being community transmission of unknown source which is worrying. Qld https://www.theguardian.com/austral...08bb338d7088f3#block-5f2222dc8f08bb338d7088f3

Qld have shut their borders if you live in Victoria or greater Sydney after 2 fecking idiots travelling back to Brisbane lied at the Vic/NSW border and again at the NSW/Qld border to get home, then didn't self isolate and have now tested positive. I suspect they will be hung drawn and quartered if Covid gets free in Qld again.
 

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I've worked with Gigi at a previous job - the economist on the program - very intelligent person and a great teacher but rather US in her economic views re Covid.

The majority of people want elimination to be the goal.
 
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Australia Covid discussion on Q&A. Little appetite for opening up yet with added criticism of Sweden https://www.theguardian.com/austral...mish-macdonald-labels-swedish-model-heartless.
Calling Sweden, who took in about half a million refugees during the crisis “heartless” is a bit rich, coming from Australia with their asylum policy is hilarious.
Australia has no problem condemning people to death in that situation. The feckers detain people on PNG and other islands for fecking years rather than grant them asylum.
As for “elimination”, at what cost? At what point do you consider the health of the rest of country? Not least the children.
How long have the Victoria kids been in a forced lockdown since March? When were they last in school? In sport?

And surely care home residents in Victoria have also been isolated right? In Sweden people go in care homes so late that the average life expectancy is 2 years, the reason they aren’t being taken for ICU is that they are judged to not be able to survive it.

I’d argue heartless is condemning non-Australians the way the Aussie government does and having no consideration for the rest of society during a pandemic much more heartless than a country that does it’s best to think of the health of everyone, including non-Swedes.
 
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Don’t get me wrong here, NZ did a great job and I wish all countries could have done likewise, but they were always a special case, one of the most isolated countries in the World to start with. (new Zealand even care about non-NZlanders and appear to agree that Australia are rather scummy in regards to this)
For Australia to emulate that will cause so much more hardship as it already has.
Australia couldn’t stop patting themselves on the back just a matter of weeks back and look at it now, unbelievably in a worse spot currently than a country that didn’t lock down at all. Worse with cases and incredibly higher numbers in ICU already, with the Aussie ICU numbers likely to grow looking at todays case numbers and the trend.
That shows what a nightmare this virus is to eradicate.
 
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Skills

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Bloody hell. That’s scary.
I think I had it in March/April, and since then I've been getting bouts (3-4 days at a time) where I'm getting a tight chest/shortness of breath. Been fine the vast majority of the time - but its noticeable because it feels exactly like the time I think I had the thing (that shortness of breath lasted over 2 weeks then).
 
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I think I had it in March/April, and since then I've been getting bouts (3-4 days at a time) where I'm getting a tight chest/shortness of breath. Been fine the vast majority of the time - but its noticeable because it feels exactly like the time I think I had the thing (that shortness of breath lasted over 2 weeks then).
Sounds tough that, can you train as normal?
 

Champ

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9000 extra tests in a week & 200 additional cases. It looks relatively flat. Plus there is a big shift in pillar one to pillar one testing in the volumes over the past month, which would indicate more community testing and in turn more people being tested in those numbers.

64% of today's cases was from Monday testing, only 5% from yesterday's tests.
We were testing more people at the beginning of June, yet cases were lower.
 

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The situation has been worsening in India. I think we started off a bit behind other countries like Brazil & Russia but given our size and population density it has really kicked in - 52000 cases yesterday. And my state in particular hasn't been handling this crisis well. Private labs hadn't been allowed to test initially, and when they did and reported positive cases the state government warned them against providing 'false' data. Testing rates are quite abysmal too. However, they did a serological test for antibodies at a locality nearby and results indicated that 37% of the population tested was infected at some point.

Knowing that those who were more or less asymptomatic could face issues at a later point is quite scary. Herd immunity is probably a myth. I suppose we can't consider ourselves immune if antibody presence decreases in a matter of months.
 

Stack

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Don’t get me wrong here, NZ did a great job and I wish all countries could have done likewise, but they were always a special case, one of the most isolated countries in the World to start with. (new Zealand even care about non-NZlanders and appear to agree that Australia are rather scummy in regards to this)
For Australia to emulate that will cause so much more hardship as it already has.
Australia couldn’t stop patting themselves on the back just a matter of weeks back and look at it now, unbelievably in a worse spot currently than a country that didn’t lock down at all. Worse with cases and incredibly higher numbers in ICU already, with the Aussie ICU numbers likely to grow looking at todays case numbers and the trend.
That shows what a nightmare this virus is to eradicate.
I always find this a weird claim.
"One of the most isolated countries in the world".
Sure we are an Island nation and a 10 hour flight from the USA and of course longer for Europe. We are however highly connected with the world during normal times.
But the core of the result we got came from a very restrictive lockdown put in place early and maintained for as long as the govt could get away with it. Closing the border was absolutely an advantage we had, but the isolation claim really is just a case of diverting away from the true reality of what happened here. I spent 5 weeks in total only being permitted to go to the supermarket or go for a walk in my local streets for exercise. My mother and sister live just 15 kms away but under our restrictions I wasnt allowed to go visit under those restrictions. Maintaining the viruses elimination from the community relates very much to our border restrictions but the reason we got to where we are is not because of isolation. Also on the isolation front NZ has just recorded 5 months in a row of trade surpluses, one month being a record month. Clearly for a country thats so "isolated" we are still maintaining international contact. Also just now on our news our domestic spending is at July 2019 levels so our internal economy is at this point working hard at recovery.
But please stop the "one of most isolated country on earth" sillyness.
 

Verbalkint

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I always find this a weird claim.
"One of the most isolated countries in the world".
Sure we are an Island nation and a 10 hour flight from the USA and of course longer for Europe. We are however highly connected with the world during normal times.
Fair point I'd say. No matter how geographically isolated, it doesn't mean squat if you have daily flights in and out. I was very happy to see how yoru country handled it though. Admirable.
 

Stack

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Fair point I'd say. No matter how geographically isolated, it doesn't mean squat if you have daily flights in and out. I was very happy to see how yoru country handled it though. Admirable.
Look in all honestly we got lucky on a number of fronts. At this point in history we have a PM who communicates well and puts peoples welfare at the forefront. We acted early relative to the diseases progress in NZ because we saw what was happening in Italy which had been forced to deal with the virus before we did. We had exceptional weather in Autumn here which made lockdown far more bearable. The sad thing is and I was guilty of this early on is that national pride turns this into some sort of perverted competition.
 

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Calling Sweden, who took in about half a million refugees during the crisis “heartless” is a bit rich, coming from Australia with their asylum policy is hilarious.
The same people also hate our government's treatment of refugees - you can dislike more than one thing. Plus it was brought up in the context of an economist saying we should follow Sweden's model rather than bagging Sweden for fun. Personally I think our government are a moral vacuum. Many of them individually make my skin crawl, Peter Dutton who is in charge of the offshore gulags the most but #scottyfrommarketing isn't far behind.

Australia has no problem condemning people to death in that situation.
See above comments. It is despicable. I've tried to vote these bunch of cnuts our at every opportunity.

As for “elimination”, at what cost? At what point do you consider the health of the rest of country? Not least the children.
The rest of the country has mostly already eliminated covid. The economic hits are coming primarily from Victoria. Elimination is the best economic strategy for Australia although the outbreak in Victoria will make that a challenge. As for the cost the majority view (I think 63% last time I saw) was that an economic hit is worth saving as many lives as possible and the other negatives are necessary to save lives. Under 20 cases per day and NSW (a right wing state government) are seriously considering lock-down again. In the end the cost of lock-down economically and socially, not to mention morally, is far less than the alternatives. I wish we had gone harder and earlier like NZ - who are covid free and open barring the borders.

How long have the Victoria kids been in a forced lockdown since March? When were they last in school? In sport?
Schools are open unless they have an infection, then they get closed for a deep clean. I think junior sport is about to be postponed again in Victoria after recently starting again. Pro sport, or the big ones at least, have moved interstate.

And surely care home residents in Victoria have also been isolated right? In Sweden people go in care homes so late that the average life expectancy is 2 years, the reason they aren’t being taken for ICU is that they are judged to not be able to survive it.
Victoria are struggling with this although complicated by the fact that the private homes are regulated by the federal government and it is the private homes that are being hit. I suspect they are struggling to get people out fast enough and the Australia public will not tolerate this so someone will pay - hopefully the government at the polls if old people are made to pay with their lives. Then again right wing voters often have short memories it seems. I think the difference is here they might have no choice but to leave people in the homes very soon - it wasn't a deliberate policy decision.

Plus covid is reducing life expectancy by 14-17 years (not 2) here and I doubt that is because we put people in old people's homes earlier than Sweden.

I’d argue heartless is condemning non-Australians the way the Aussie government does and having no consideration for the rest of society during a pandemic much more heartless than a country that does it’s best to think of the health of everyone, including non-Swndes.
The majority view here is that Sweden and other countries like the US and UK (with added incompetence) took a deliberate choice to trade lives for the economy and that choice is unacceptable to the majority here.