Madeleine McCann

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Someone saw a man in Spain and it could be that Man! Yep another £1m for the slush fund!
Don’t really think calling a fund to find out what happened to an innocent little girl a “slush fund” is really appropriate.
 

RedTillI'mDead

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Don’t really think calling a fund to find out what happened to an innocent little girl a “slush fund” is really appropriate.
Let's be honest the chances of success disappeared about 10 years ago. If a child isn't found within 5 days the odds of coming back alive drop off a cliff.

So appropriate or not, it's still a fund to keep people in a job or being spent other such ways.

I'm not convinced £12m had been a sensible use of investment. The opportunity cost of spending that in hospitals would be tons of saved lives.
 

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An extra £300k in the hunt for Madeleine. Surely the only way she is found now is if she recognised her eyes etc or had some far flung memory of that fateful night.

I just don’t think any more money thrown at it will bring any results. I feel for the parents of other kids who never got the attention that Madeleine got.

I really hope she is found safe but I just cannot see it.

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I've always said that the money shouldn't matter, but that's only the case if there's a genuine reason for it. What can they do with the 300k that they haven't already? What will that allow to happen? Where did the 300k number come from?
 

ivaldo

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An extra £300k in the hunt for Madeleine. Surely the only way she is found now is if she recognised her eyes etc or had some far flung memory of that fateful night.

I just don’t think any more money thrown at it will bring any results. I feel for the parents of other kids who never got the attention that Madeleine got.

I really hope she is found safe but I just cannot see it.

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I have sympathy for the parents (let's just assume they are entirely innocent), because they're doing what any other parent would do. They'll take every penny they can get in the search for their daughter. Still, there's no credible reason for this additional funding. There's been no break through, no significant new evidence or a new angle to explore. That money could be used far, far more effectively. After 12 years and £11mil, they're still pumping money into this case. It's crazy.
 
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sullydnl

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Do they not have to give some sort of justification for where they allocate resources if it is public money?
 

Port Vale Devil

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Do they not have to give some sort of justification for where they allocate resources if it is public money?

The Met have asked for more money to pursue active lines of inquiries.

I am sure they have to ask every 6/12 months for extra funding. It just seems they are getting nowhere with this and just keep pumping more cash into it.
 

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It's awful what happened but let's be honest here - if we look at the number of kids who go missing every year ( A child disappears in UK every three minutes EVERY three minutes a child disappears in the UK. - The UK database.com ) - you have to ask why has this one case been highlighted so much and why has so much cash been thrown at it? I'd love to think they will find the girl but I can't see it ever happening now sadly.
 

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It's awful what happened but let's be honest here - if we look at the number of kids who go missing every year ( A child disappears in UK every three minutes EVERY three minutes a child disappears in the UK. - The UK database.com ) - you have to ask why has this one case been highlighted so much and why has so much cash been thrown at it? I'd love to think they will find the girl but I can't see it ever happening now sadly.
Although that statistic should be worrying for everyone, its important to note that its actually a child reported missing every 3 minutes which includes kids who have wandered off, kids who are found again shortly afterwards and of course includes teenagers who are much more likely to run away of their own volition.

There's around 50 cases of non-parental abduction each year, with an average age of 11. It's extremely unusual for small kids like McCain to be taken thankfully.
 

matherto

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It's awful what happened but let's be honest here - if we look at the number of kids who go missing every year ( A child disappears in UK every three minutes EVERY three minutes a child disappears in the UK. - The UK database.com ) - you have to ask why has this one case been highlighted so much and why has so much cash been thrown at it? I'd love to think they will find the girl but I can't see it ever happening now sadly.
If the other parents had the resources and connections that the McCanns did/do then I'm sure we'd be hearing about them too.

The family is extremely fortunate that they do. It's that simple really. It's not a case of other searches being neglected, just that this one has money behind it whereas the majority of the others don't.
 

UnrelatedPsuedo

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It's awful what happened but let's be honest here - if we look at the number of kids who go missing every year ( A child disappears in UK every three minutes EVERY three minutes a child disappears in the UK. - The UK database.com ) - you have to ask why has this one case been highlighted so much and why has so much cash been thrown at it? I'd love to think they will find the girl but I can't see it ever happening now sadly.
Because she vanished.

It wasn’t just a worried person calling to report a lost child in a supermarket.

A child does not disappear in the UK every 3 minutes. Its less than one abduction a week if we compare apples to apples.

Edit : someone else already pointed this out.
 

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This case is still very strange. The parents were rich, so it made sense the kidnapper would ask for a large sum of money as ransom at some point.

Predators / human traffic mafias usually target poor / dysfunctional family's children, because people tend to take those cases of missing childs as a "normal thing" of their social or economic environment and the media will not do an immediate cover, unless there are reporters of a sensationalist TV near-by "listening" to the police radio transmission.

I know there are sick bastards everywhere, but not a single evidence was left, no eye-witnesses, nothing. It was a very clean kidnapping. Either the person who did this worked there, or was hosted at the place, since nobody saw any suspicious activity.
 

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What is the evidence she's alive?
There isn't any evidence either way. I know that sometimes children appear years and years later, having been abducted and then somehow managing to escape or raise the alarm - however, they are generally older when they are abducted and they know that they aren't with their family.

A child taken at 3 years old would be unlikely to remember much (if any) of her previous life 12 years later, I suspect.
 

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I think, at this stage, even finding a body would be a huge relief for the parents. At least that would give them closure. Dunno what that means re police resources. I presume the missing person doesn't have to be assumed alive in order to continue trying to discover what happened to them.
 

altodevil

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Sounds like we are reaching the end now. With this allotment cellar and Bruckner dropping his parole bid.
 

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I don't want to think about what might have happened to that poor little soul
 

Tel074

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I have sympathy for the parents (let's just assume they are entirely innocent), because they're doing what any other parent would do. They'll take every penny they can get in the search for their daughter. Still, there's no credible reason for this additional funding. There's been no break through, no significant new evidence or a new angle to explore. That money could be used far, far more effectively. After 12 years and £11mil, they're still pumping money into this case. It's crazy.

That's just it they are not entirely innocent. They may be innocent of her kidnapping or murder but they are guilty of child neglect on a level as a parent that I can't even comprehend
 

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That's just it they are not entirely innocent. They may be innocent of her kidnapping or murder but they are guilty of child neglect on a level as a parent that I can't even comprehend
I feel sorry for them, even though they don't come across as especially likeable.

Mid 80s or so, I was guilty of leaving my children in a holiday camp park chalet. Because it was the done thing, and there was a camp patrol.... 'baby crying in Chalet No. 10' etc. Now I was a new mum, but looking back, that was no excuse. Nearly every parent on that holiday was doing the same thing. And had been doing so safely for years, and when you know that, you are lulled into a false sense of security. There was never criticism, or campaigns, to have this neglect stopped. And it was neglect - but at the time, it didn't seem so. Sounds ridiculous now and I don't know how I, or any of those other mums, could have done it. But we did. I can't explain it - because I could be a gold medal winner for worrying about 'what if...' scenarios. But for some reason, we all 'knew' it was safe. But it wasnt. We were just lucky. So the McCanns were neglectful and it turned out to be the worst mistake of their life - but I'll bet anything that they didn't think they were taking any risk, because on holiday it's like you're in a safe bubble - or it was. Because of Madeleine, I doubt many, if any, parents leave their children unattended these days. The possibility of a kidnap is probably rare - but choking on vomit, fire, suffocating etc - they're distinct possibilities. It was madness, but at the time it felt safe.

That's why I feel sorry for the McCanns. They learned the hard way.
 

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Read a report few days ago. Portuguese lady said that she saw a group of teenagers speaking German outside a shop and that one of them had the distinctive feature in her eye.
Suppose she could be mistaken and it could be a pure coincidence but supposedly the chances are extremely rare to have the eye condition. Could she be alive with German speaking parents?
 

Livvie

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Read a report few days ago. Portuguese lady said that she saw a group of teenagers speaking German outside a shop and that one of them had the distinctive feature in her eye.
Suppose she could be mistaken and it could be a pure coincidence but supposedly the chances are extremely rare to have the eye condition. Could she be alive with German speaking parents?
I saw that too.
 

ivaldo

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That's just it they are not entirely innocent. They may be innocent of her kidnapping or murder but they are guilty of child neglect on a level as a parent that I can't even comprehend
Its pretty evident what I was discussing I think. It was neglect, but that is far removed from having an active role in the kidnapping of their child. So often the focus is on the parents and what they did wrong, and I dare say I'm as guilty as any of that, but it truly is horrible to think what happened to that innocent, sweet girl. I don't think anyone can look at it logically and believe Madeline is alive. I too am a parent. Speculating on what happened in those last, horrific moments of her life would haunt me forever.
 

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I feel sorry for them, even though they don't come across as especially likeable.

Mid 80s or so, I was guilty of leaving my children in a holiday camp park chalet. Because it was the done thing, and there was a camp patrol.... 'baby crying in Chalet No. 10' etc. Now I was a new mum, but looking back, that was no excuse. Nearly every parent on that holiday was doing the same thing. And had been doing so safely for years, and when you know that, you are lulled into a false sense of security. There was never criticism, or campaigns, to have this neglect stopped. And it was neglect - but at the time, it didn't seem so. Sounds ridiculous now and I don't know how I, or any of those other mums, could have done it. But we did. I can't explain it - because I could be a gold medal winner for worrying about 'what if...' scenarios. But for some reason, we all 'knew' it was safe. But it wasnt. We were just lucky. So the McCanns were neglectful and it turned out to be the worst mistake of their life - but I'll bet anything that they didn't think they were taking any risk, because on holiday it's like you're in a safe bubble - or it was. Because of Madeleine, I doubt many, if any, parents leave their children unattended these days. The possibility of a kidnap is probably rare - but choking on vomit, fire, suffocating etc - they're distinct possibilities. It was madness, but at the time it felt safe.

That's why I feel sorry for the McCanns. They learned the hard way.
I was left alone as a kid sometimes. I remember little groups of us kids sitting in the car with crisps and pop while the adults were in the pub. Our parents weren’t getting drunk, they were just socializing with other adults, and were certainly not drink driving. Someone would come and check on us from time to time, it didn’t feel like neglect, it was just how the world was at that time. Nowadays it would be enough to get all our parents locked up and shamed in the national papers.

Is the modern way better? I’m not sure. We were certainly a lot more independent and were actually looking forward to growing up, whereas now for kids who are treated as the centre of everything, growing up seems to seem like a horrible idea.
 

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I certainly spent a lot of time in the bowling alley arcade when I was five or six and my parents were doing their league nights. My slightly older sister was about, too, though maybe that's different?
 

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Its pretty evident what I was discussing I think. It was neglect, but that is far removed from having an active role in the kidnapping of their child. So often the focus is on the parents and what they did wrong, and I dare say I'm as guilty as any of that, but it truly is horrible to think what happened to that innocent, sweet girl. I don't think anyone can look at it logically and believe Madeline is alive. I too am a parent. Speculating on what happened in those last, horrific moments of her life would haunt me forever.
In 13 years of her being missing I've never actually brought myself to think how Maddie would have met her end and what unspeakable things that she almost certainly went through. I’d say I’ve got a pretty strong stomach but I literally block everything out in regards to what would have transpired in her final moments. I just can’t. The sheer horror of it. I’m not a parent but I can imagine this thought of being far more difficult when you think of another child suffering through whatever it is that she went through. I really cannot understand how anyone could do such a horrific thing to a child. May her soul rest in eternal peace and as negligent as the McCann’s were, I hope they finally get some closure.
 

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I was left alone as a kid sometimes. I remember little groups of us kids sitting in the car with crisps and pop while the adults were in the pub. Our parents weren’t getting drunk, they were just socializing with other adults, and were certainly not drink driving. Someone would come and check on us from time to time, it didn’t feel like neglect, it was just how the world was at that time. Nowadays it would be enough to get all our parents locked up and shamed in the national papers.

Is the modern way better? I’m not sure. We were certainly a lot more independent and were actually looking forward to growing up, whereas now for kids who are treated as the centre of everything, growing up seems to seem like a horrible idea.
I certainly spent a lot of time in the bowling alley arcade when I was five or six and my parents were doing their league nights. My slightly older sister was about, too, though maybe that's different?
Times have changed. When I was growing up kids often had totally unsupervised areas outside pubs for kids especially in holiday places like Wales. Fewer people would do what the McCann's did these days, even though they were within sight of the hotel room, especially since Madeline disappeared but I can't help but think much of this blaming is to help people believe that their own kids are safe.
 

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When that case happened, I thought to blame the parents and I express my opinion in that sense, but then I realized that what my parents let me do when they brought me camping in remote areas is insane. Going by bike km and km and spend the day, selling mushrooms on the road when my sister and cousin were 6 and me 3 just for fun as the profit was simbolic (My shit sister paid me 1 cent) as we had any notion of money. We were jumping literally to the cars to stop them. Going to fresh water rivers and swim (without knowing how to swim properly) since I have memory. Playing around till night till go home alone. And much more things unsupervised. I am talking of the 80/90. And they allowed me because my parents grow one in a isolated farm and the other in the outskirts of a town with fields around so they had the same perception how I had to grow. For them it was normal and how they had grown up and their friends also. And of course it was not just me, I was doing that with at least some other kid(s). They neglected us? possibly. We had the best of our time? I can guarantee that yes. What it happened to Madeleine was an accident that the parents are punished enough and it was news because it was something that doesn't happen that often (that is why is news)

Thinking on how you grew up and I am sure you have several stories also, we were just not unlucky (that is not like being lucky)

Hope they can find solace one day
 
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golden_blunder

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I said at the time it was fairly common practice of people going on holidays to leave their kids alone at various times. Or at least it was until that point. I got shouted down because people were angry and at the McCanns especially. Understandable but this could have happened to any family. They will regret it for the rest of their life. I think that’s enough punishment for them. I hope that they get closure some day.
 
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Kentonio

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When that case happened, I thought to blame the parents and I express my opinion in that sense, but then I realized that what my parents let me do when they brought me camping in remote areas is insane. Going by bike km and km and spend the day, selling mushrooms on the road when my sister and cousin were 6 and me 3 just for fun as the profit was simbolic (My shit sister paid me 1 cent) as we had any notion of money. We were jumping literally to the cars to stop them. Going to fresh water rivers and swim (without knowing how to swim properly) since I have memory. Playing around till night till go home alone. And much more things unsupervised. I am talking of the 80/90. And they allowed me because my parents grow one in a isolated farm and the other in the outskirts of a town with fields around so they had the same perception how I had to grow. For them it was normal and how they had grown up and their friends also. And of course it was not just me, I was doing that with at least some other kid(s). They neglected us? possibly. We had the best of our time? I can guarantee that yes. What it happened to Madeleine was an accident that the parents are punished enough and it was news because it was something that doesn't happen that often (that is why is news)

Thinking on how you grew up and I am sure you have several stories also, we were just not unlucky (that is not like being lucky)

Hope they can find solace one day
Yeah, I can't help but wonder whether this modern thing of kids being watched all the time will ultimately prove more harmful than helpful. I'm sure it prevents a lot of accidents and the occasional horrible case like the McCain one, but surely it must have a serious impact on things like kids social development, learning processes and development of independent decision making and action. If there's always a parent around to tell you what to do and not do, then does that reduce kids desire to experiment? Or maybe make it stronger and make poor decisions more likely when they eventually do leave the oversight of their parents? I'd love to read a study on it if any exist.

I also remember hurting myself a fair bit as a kid. Trying stupid things, climbing things and falling etc. I think it gives you a feeling for responsibility and consequences. If I hurt myself doing something dumb, friends would just laugh and I'd quickly learn some things are bad ideas. I'm not sure if having a parent there immediately being all 'OMG! Are you ok?! Let me take care of you!!' would have been helpful. Not that mine would have done that of course anyway. They've have told me not to be so dumb next time. :lol:
 

Sarni

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When that case happened, I thought to blame the parents and I express my opinion in that sense, but then I realized that what my parents let me do when they brought me camping in remote areas is insane. Going by bike km and km and spend the day, selling mushrooms on the road when my sister and cousin were 6 and me 3 just for fun as the profit was simbolic (My shit sister paid me 1 cent) as we had any notion of money. We were jumping literally to the cars to stop them. Going to fresh water rivers and swim (without knowing how to swim properly) since I have memory. Playing around till night till go home alone. And much more things unsupervised. I am talking of the 80/90. And they allowed me because my parents grow one in a isolated farm and the other in the outskirts of a town with fields around so they had the same perception how I had to grow. For them it was normal and how they had grown up and their friends also. And of course it was not just me, I was doing that with at least some other kid(s). They neglected us? possibly. We had the best of our time? I can guarantee that yes. What it happened to Madeleine was an accident that the parents are punished enough and it was news because it was something that doesn't happen that often (that is why is news)

Thinking on how you grew up and I am sure you have several stories also, we were just not unlucky (that is not like being lucky)

Hope they can find solace one day
Same here, I thought I was actually quite heavily supervised when I was young compared to my friends and still thinking about it, it seems that my childhood was full of very risky moments. When I was 8 parents would have let me spend entire day outside, we would take bikes and ride far away from home into the woods, we just had to return before dusk - once I've turned 13 I wouldn't even have to return before dusk, I could pretty much stay outside until 11 as long as they knew where I was. And as I say, compared to most kids my curfew was actually quite strict.

It's very easy these days to blame people for everything they do and say it's their fault when things go wrong but life is just an endless cycle of mistakes. It's very harsh to tell people off every time they make one, especially when they are already paying a very high price.
 

Tom Van Persie

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Read a report few days ago. Portuguese lady said that she saw a group of teenagers speaking German outside a shop and that one of them had the distinctive feature in her eye.
Suppose she could be mistaken and it could be a pure coincidence but supposedly the chances are extremely rare to have the eye condition. Could she be alive with German speaking parents?
German investigators seem convinced she was unfortunately murdered. And wasn't Bruckner telling people in the shop he worked in that she was dead? Who knows though. Anything is possible until they find the body or get a confession.
 

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Same here, I thought I was actually quite heavily supervised when I was young compared to my friends and still thinking about it, it seems that my childhood was full of very risky moments. When I was 8 parents would have let me spend entire day outside, we would take bikes and ride far away from home into the woods, we just had to return before dusk - once I've turned 13 I wouldn't even have to return before dusk, I could pretty much stay outside until 11 as long as they knew where I was. And as I say, compared to most kids my curfew was actually quite strict.

It's very easy these days to blame people for everything they do and say it's their fault when things go wrong but life is just an endless cycle of mistakes. It's very harsh to tell people off every time they make one, especially when they are already paying a very high price.
"We".

I grew up the same. As long as I was home for tea my parents never knew where I was, but they knew i was with friends, and often in built up areas. Sometimes they might leave me in the car whilst they went somewhere, but it was always with other kids around or in busy areas. They would never leave me alone, away from anybody else, in the dark, for such a long time. And that was in the 80s when there weren't so many people around doing things like this. To do what they did in 2007 is absolutely neglect and more than just a simple mistake.
 

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"We".

I grew up the same. As long as I was home for tea my parents never knew where I was, but they knew i was with friends, and often in built up areas. Sometimes they might leave me in the car whilst they went somewhere, but it was always with other kids around or in busy areas. They would never leave me alone, away from anybody else, in the dark, for such a long time. And that was in the 80s when there weren't so many people around doing things like this. To do what they did in 2007 is absolutely neglect and more than just a simple mistake.
Were there really less people around doing things like this? There have always been horrific kidnappings and murders, do we have any evidence that it became more prevalent in the 2000's? I'd have guessed the opposite personally.
 

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"We".

I grew up the same. As long as I was home for tea my parents never knew where I was, but they knew i was with friends, and often in built up areas. Sometimes they might leave me in the car whilst they went somewhere, but it was always with other kids around or in busy areas. They would never leave me alone, away from anybody else, in the dark, for such a long time. And that was in the 80s when there weren't so many people around doing things like this. To do what they did in 2007 is absolutely neglect and more than just a simple mistake.
That's a good point but often I'd be returning home myself, having separated from other kids a while before. I'd hardly ever be too far away from home alone though.
 

Sarni

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Were there really less people around doing things like this? There have always been horrific kidnappings and murders, do we have any evidence that it became more prevalent in the 2000's? I'd have guessed the opposite personally.
There are loads of stories about kidnappings/murders of children in 70s, 80s and 90s to be honest. Still are, only difference is it's much easier to catch the guy today than it was 20 or 30 years ago.