Manchester United B team vs Liverpool B team

The Boy said:

A lot is made at the moment of the fact that you can not mount a titlke challenge next season because the back up players on the bench are not good enough and the minute you get injuries to the first team the drop off is massive. But is it so different for Liverpool, especially now Lovren has gone. In fact Liverpool are so stretched at the back that I've had to [play Milner in the team twice! If he can do that Liverpool's midfield is OK, their attack is a massive drop off though from their usual line up.

Adrian
Williams Matip ?????? Milner
Ox Keita Milner
Shaqiri Origi Minamino
​

You on the other hand have a much stronger defence, in the midfield your also quite strong but could be lacking a bit of creativity in attack.

Romero
Dalot Bailly Jones Williams
McT Fred
Mata Lingard James
Ighalo
​

I think Liverpool probably have the best first eleven in the league, but Klopp has been bloody lucky with injuries over the last two seasons as the drop off to the B team is at least as bad as yours if not worse. I'd be interested to see who would win between these two line ups!

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I agree. The depth argument for Utd is purely because we don’t have enough quality in attack. You look at those two teams and our midfield and defence are far better. James and Ighalo are decent but there’s just a lack of gold dust. If Utd sign Sancho then suddenly that second team contains one of Rashford, Martial or Greenwood which instantly turns that second string into a more dangerous team. If we were to add some cover for Bruno (e.g. Grealish) then we are laughing as suddenly there’s also creativity in reserve. Utd will surely strengthen further this summer and are building a really exciting team.

Final point, couldn’t agree more on your assessment of Liverpool’s injury record, it’s been nothing short of remarkable that their whole first team has remained injury free for 2 seasons of 50 plus games. Surely they can’t go again for a third season unaffected. I suspect they will drop for more points next year as I don’t see them strengthening much in the market.

The Boy said:

A lot is made at the moment of the fact that you can not mount a titlke challenge next season because the back up players on the bench are not good enough and the minute you get injuries to the first team the drop off is massive. But is it so different for Liverpool, especially now Lovren has gone. In fact Liverpool are so stretched at the back that I've had to [play Milner in the team twice! If he can do that Liverpool's midfield is OK, their attack is a massive drop off though from their usual line up.

Adrian
Williams Matip ?????? Milner
Ox Keita Milner
Shaqiri Origi Minamino
​

You on the other hand have a much stronger defence, in the midfield your also quite strong but could be lacking a bit of creativity in attack.

Romero
Dalot Bailly Jones Williams
McT Fred
Mata Lingard James
Ighalo​

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Poor Milner.

There isn't a lot in it when it comes to squad depth and ours will likely be better if Sancho and a couple more come.

I don't know how significant that will end up being though. Liverpool have been pretty fortunate with injuries in the last couple of years and have a system they know works, I'm still not entirely convinced we do. Bruno and Pogba, for example, are both great individually but the midfield has looked unbalanced in certain games. We'll need to find a way to tighten that up if we're serious about challenging.

Add a CB, Sancho, a DM and maybe another attacking midfielder (Grealish?) then that B team would have Lindelof over Jones, one of Martial, Rashford or Greenwood in attack, Matic over McT or Fred and Grealish over Lingard. That'll be almost peak City tier depth.

Think that could be achievable by end of summer next year.

The Boy said:

I think Liverpool probably have the best first eleven in the league, but Klopp has been bloody lucky with injuries over the last two seasons as the drop off to the B team is at least as bad as yours if not worse.

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This is the key. Liverpool have been very fortunate with injuries. Playing a second string team for one or two games, you can get away with it but when a player is out for months, the team would struggle a bit more.

Liverpool have done well not to have more injuries or players fatigued, as the drop off from there first 11 is huge.

Bwuk said:

Liverpool have done well not to have more injuries or players fatigued, as the drop off from there first 11 is huge.

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Liverpool has been extremely lucky with injuries. I don’t think they’d want too much credit for that, since correct training and restitution is a competence most teams has these days, so any great ‘skill’ in avoiding injuries in that scale would most likely be illegal.

Mata still shoved out to the right

Our squad is stronger in depth. Our squad players did well when the likes of Pogba, Shaw and Martial were out. They even won us important points over the season, to keep us just enough to float in top 6. I doubt many Pools' B team players can do that bar few eg. Milner and Origi. Their keeper is good, as does the midfielders (Keita, Milner). Our keeper is good, good one FB, very good two CMs, good striker and a good half-a-season winger.

Their best 11 is better and fitter for the whole season. How they are able to keep their best 11 generally fit is just ridiculous amount of "lucks" and good fitness preparation? Individually their players have good fitness on their own. Part of it also has to do with their midfielders doing the most heavy-works every game, and they have good like-for-likes in case any CMs get injured.

Our best 11 though have higher risks of getting injured and to miss out games than theirs. Bruno and Maguire are thankfully great addition fitness wise. AWB also had good fitness but the others though.. are known for their injuries. Lindelof and Rashford have good fitness record normally. Martial, Greenwood and Pogba tend to go missing at times out injured. Shaw is a risk. Matic can't last playing repetitive games for many months.

Wonder how it compares to other teams?

City: Bravo, Mendy, Garcia/Stones, Otamendi, Cancelo, Fernandinho, Foden, Gundogan, Mahrez, Jesus, Torres?
Chelsea: Caballero, Alonso, Tomori, Christensen/Zouma, James, Jorginho, RLC/Gilmour, Barkley, Mount, Hudson-Odoi, Giroud/Abraham
Spurs: Gazzaniga, Davies, Foyth, Tanganga, Aurier, N'Dombele, Winks, Lo Celso, Moura/Lamela, Sessegnon, Parrott
Arsenal: Martinez, Kolasinac, Luiz, Mari/Sokratis, Maitland-Niles/Soares, Torreira, Willock, Ozil?, Saka, Nelson, Martinelli

Probably got a lot wrong here, not much of an expert on the other B teams.

People are missing the fact that Klopp has the ability to make inferior players look better than they are with his tactics and instructions, just like Fergie did with us. We, on the other hand, still rely very much on individual quality (especially in attack) and that's why we often struggle when our star players are out.

And I still don't get the notion about Liverpool being extremely lucky with injuries. All title winning teams basically play the same team week in week out throughout the season. Staying fit is a key to success and this is achieved by rotation, training etc. Luck is just part of it and it's not the most decisive factor.

What I get from that is where rotation is really needed (midfield) for their style Liverpool have lots of excellent options. They’ve also done well to buy players who don’t get injured often and keep them all fit.

hmchan said:

People are missing the fact that Klopp has the ability to make inferior players look better than they are with his tactics and instructions, just like Fergie did with us. We, on the other hand, still rely very much on individual quality (especially in attack) and that's why we often struggle when our star players are out.

And I still don't get the notion about Liverpool being extremely lucky with injuries. All title winning teams basically play the same team week in week out throughout the season. Staying fit is a key to success and this is achieved by rotation, training etc. Luck is just part of it and it's not the most decisive factor.

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I agree.

We struggled with injuries this season because we didn't rotate our star players for fear of losing games. We need to get better at getting the best out of rotation options; especially evident towards the end of the season when we overplayed the first 11 while leaving the backups rusty and ineffective.

City and Chelsea have very deep squads - but that's basically it in the Premier League. Liverpool (on paper) have a huge drop off between their first XI and their reserves, so do we, so do sides like Leicester, Spurs, Arsenal etc (and we arguably have a better first XI than all of those). The issue we've had for years is that we can largely do a bit of shuffling in defence, or even up front, without too much drop off - but the backups for Pogba and Fernandes represent a huge drop off in terms of performance. Part of why I'd love to see us get Grealish.

Probably no need to have Milner in that team twice, as Curtis Jones looks a decent prospect.

Agree that they've been extremely lucky with injuries.

Also about Liverpool injuires

InterFan1998 said:

Dont they get a decent amount of injuries? I dont follow EPL religiously, but it seems Fabinho, Allison, And Matip have been out for months. Henderson has missed a number of games, Mane some, even Salah a few. Not to mention Keita is almost always injured.

Liverpool are very physically fit so I think they actually have more injuries than average. Atalanta in Italy are one of the fittest teams and they hardly get any injuries except for a few centre backs at times. Come to think of it, Liverpool's centre backs also get a crazy amount of injuries over the last few years.

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He'sRaldo said:

Also about Liverpool injuires

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Out of 31 league games this season (excluding the last 7 as they've crowned champion), Liverpool actually have 10 matches where Mane, Firmino and Salah haven't started together, let alone the injuries in midfield and defence. They just seem unaffected because Klopp blends other players (e.g. Origi and Ox) in pretty well. Imagine we have 1/3 season with our star players out, fans wouldn't wait to use that as an excuse to explain our huge drop.

Would like to see an analysis of the number of days missed due to injuries between our XI and theirs.

Need some luck but the lack of injuries can also be down to good recruitment with extensive study done on players injury track records before signed and Liverpool seem to have good fitness/strength and conditioning coaches in place.

Curtis Jones walks into that Liverpool B Team, OP

I think part of it is psychological and the winning mentality that they have now created as a team. Salah could miss a game but somebody else will step up and the team's performance level remains high. They definitely have the sort of fear factor that we used to have,

We could see the same thing under Sir Alex. Sometimes you'd look at the team sheet if we had some of our best players missing and it would be concerning, but we'd still find a way to win and consistently grind out good results even when rotating the squad or with players injured.

Liverpool are becoming almost the victims of their own success in this regard, when you have such untouchable starters it's hard to attain quality depth as they know there's little scope to break in. Arsenal (early 00's) and Pep's Barca are 2 other example's of teams that had the same issues, you end up with little choice but to find filler that know their place, one's that could fill in for a one off but would not be able to do it for a period of time.

CM and VVD's CB partner are the only area's of their team where a player doesn't own the spot under lock and key, it's no coincidence that they are the areas where they have the most depth.

Dancfc said:

Liverpool are becoming almost the victims of their own success in this regard, when you have such untouchable starters it's hard to attain quality depth as they know there's little scope to break in. Arsenal (early 00's) and Pep's Barca are 2 other example's of teams that had the same issues, you end up with little choice but to find filler that know their place, one's that could fill in for a one off but would not be able to do it for a period of time.

CM and VVD's CB partner are the only area's of their team where a player doesn't own the spot under lock and key, it's no coincidence that they are the areas where they have the most depth.

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I think its more that their owners are riding their luck by wanting to save money with Klopp making average players overperform by a big margin. As others have said, that B team looks crap on paper but as we`ve seen in various cup matches this season they actually played decent football despite resting stars. Although overall it remains a problem for them I would say, you cant compete on three fronts with such a drop in quality through the squad, good coaching will only get you so far.

I think United have the third/possibly second best depth in the league, depending how one rates Chelsea. On the other hand, City`s depth is crazy. No wonder they`ve walked the league cup each year, on paper that B team would probably finish top 6 in the Prem on its own.

Liverpool don’t really tend to get injuries though whereas we get loads.

hmchan said:

Out of 31 league games this season (excluding the last 7 as they've crowned champion), Liverpool actually have 10 matches where Mane, Firmino and Salah haven't started together, let alone the injuries in midfield and defence. They just seem unaffected because Klopp blends other players (e.g. Origi and Ox) in pretty well. Imagine we have 1/3 season with our star players out, fans wouldn't wait to use that as an excuse to explain our huge drop.

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Yep, it's Klopp's strength after all. Our injuries excuse does ring hollow at times, as it gives off the impression one can't challenge without a star-studded bench, when it's clearly possible to do so.

The Boy said:

A lot is made at the moment of the fact that you can not mount a titlke challenge next season because the back up players on the bench are not good enough and the minute you get injuries to the first team the drop off is massive. But is it so different for Liverpool, especially now Lovren has gone. In fact Liverpool are so stretched at the back that I've had to [play Milner in the team twice! If he can do that Liverpool's midfield is OK, their attack is a massive drop off though from their usual line up.

Adrian
Williams Matip ?????? Milner
Ox Keita Milner
Shaqiri Origi Minamino
​

You on the other hand have a much stronger defence, in the midfield your also quite strong but could be lacking a bit of creativity in attack.

Romero
Dalot Bailly Jones Williams
McT Fred
Mata Lingard James
Ighalo
​

I think Liverpool probably have the best first eleven in the league, but Klopp has been bloody lucky with injuries over the last two seasons as the drop off to the B team is at least as bad as yours if not worse. I'd be interested to see who would win between these two line ups!

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Liverpool have been lucky with injuries but you are massively overrating the Man Utd squad in this post.I don't blame you, you're a Brighton fan so I doubt you will have seen many of our games. However, those of us who were (un)fortunate enough to watch Man Utd get beaten by Bournemouth and Watford etc have a better sense of where we are as a squad.

I am not familiar enough with Liverpool's defensive reinforcements to make much of a judgement on them. I do rate Bailly and Williams on our end however.

In terms of midfield, Keita isn't fantastic but he's definitely comparable to Fred and McTominay. Milner, despite his age, is far more streetwise and versatile than either too.

As for Liverpool's back up attackers, its hard to make a case with a straight face that ours are better than theirs. Mata is a long way past his best by date. He can barely keep up with the pace of Premier League football and has become excessively conservative in possession. In truth, he'd be doing United a favour if he left this summer and got off the wage bill. There's no way Mata can give you anything close to what Shaqiri can, in terms of 1v1s with a full back. Jesse Lingard has been out of form for two years. Oxlade-Chamberlain is easily and obviously the better player at this moment. Daniel James has a lot of potential but basically hasn't had a good game since Christmas. Although, granted, Minamino hasn't pulled up many trees since joining Liverpool. Ighalo does a job for you, does he do it better than Origi though? I'd like to think Ighalo could do to Barcelona what Origi did to them in the 2019 European Cup semi final. I wouldn't bet on it though.

It is massively overestimating the strength in depth of our squad to start talking about it being able to stand up to the Scousers'. Has it really been so long since we struggled against Norwich in the FA Cup quarter final that people have forgotten what the real strength of this squad is? There is a reason why Ole ran Bruno Fernandes ragged. Take him out and, as a team, we are about as dangerous as a balloon sword.

Difference is Liverpool never really use their back up players. All of their starting 11 are insanely fit and don't really get injured.

Us on the other hand.....

I've been saying this for a while now. People like to whinge about our squad depth, when actually there's only City who have a squad that's clearly better then ours... And even then there 2nd defence is pretty garbage.

Think some people need to realise that no team is made up of 22 top players.