India politics thread

VidaRed

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The order of the supreme court is farcical and not to mention against the precedents of the habeas corpus cases and therefore illegal. There is no official order which detains him, however he is being detained and therefore a petition is filed in court. The court accepts the version of the state that he isn't being detained since there isn't any official order and dismisses the petition.

The court could have:
1. Directed the state to produce him before the court
2. Appoint an independent lawyer to goto the detained person and file a report regarding the actual facts on the ground
3. Passed an order saying that since the detained person is not detained according to the state therefore there would be no harm in him moving about freely like any other citizen.

But then again the judge in charge is a known lackey of the government.
 

iKnowNothing

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Amit Shah tests covid positive and promptly gets admitted to the hospital. You’d think he would stay home and consume immunity enhancing stuff that his Ayush ministry wants the public at large to consume.
 

coolredwine

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Amit Shah tests covid positive and promptly gets admitted to the hospital. You’d think he would stay home and consume immunity enhancing stuff that his Ayush ministry wants the public at large to consume.
Got admitted in a private hospital too while doctors from AIIMS are running around to treat him. Amazing.
 

crappycraperson

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That is a bizarre thread and an incredible reach. I know plenty of folks from hindi medium schools who made it to IITs/IIMs. Some are at even C level positions now. If anything complete hindi/regional language medium schools would lead to more meritocratic system.

Even if promoting hindi and regional languages is RSS agenda, it is not dis-similar to any other country in the world. Yes, a good percentage of Indians have prospered due to their english language proficiency but that has come at the cost of local languages losing traction. If Europeans can do well in sciences and arts by studying in their mother tongue till university, there is no reason why Indians can not at least use their local language as a teaching medium for formative years of education.
 

MDFC Manager

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Amit Shah tests covid positive and promptly gets admitted to the hospital. You’d think he would stay home and consume immunity enhancing stuff that his Ayush ministry wants the public at large to consume.
Got admitted in a private hospital too while doctors from AIIMS are running around to treat him. Amazing.
Cynics on twitter are suggesting that this is just a ruse to avoid attending the mandir event in Ayodhya :wenger:
 

berbatrick

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That is a bizarre thread and an incredible reach. I know plenty of folks from hindi medium schools who made it to IITs/IIMs. Some are at even C level positions now. If anything complete hindi/regional language medium schools would lead to more meritocratic system.

Even if promoting hindi and regional languages is RSS agenda, it is not dis-similar to any other country in the world. Yes, a good percentage of Indians have prospered due to their english language proficiency but that has come at the cost of local languages losing traction. If Europeans can do well in sciences and arts by studying in their mother tongue till university, there is no reason why Indians can not at least use their local language as a teaching medium for formative years of education.
it's complicated. afaik, when people including poor people are given a choice, they send their kids to english schools over hindi/regional. it's the clearest way up/out. at the same time, the kids struggle really badly. we taught somebody whose parents spoke marathi only and she really struggled with it (she did ok in the end and is doing b com now).

probably the correct policy, (this govt doing it makes me suspicious) but more fundamentally, the problem is number of teachers and teaching quality and infrastructure.
 

VidaRed

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In Reply to Contempt Case, Bhushan Offers Detailed Critique of SC
Activist-lawyer says criticism of SC can’t be contempt, lists controversial decisions from last 4 CJIs’ tenures.
Advocate Prashant Bhushan has come out swinging in his reply to the Supreme Court’s contempt case against him for recent tweets, defending the views expressed in those tweets about current Chief Justice of India SA Bobde’s photos on a superbike, as well as his statement that the Supreme Court has played a role in the destruction of Indian democracy over the last six years. In the reply affidavit dated 2 August, Bhushan has also provided a detailed critique of the Supreme Court’s decisions and decision-making to justify his opinion of the court, including a list of problematic incidents and orders of the court under the last four CJIs, broken down by their respective tenures.

THE CJI-BY-CJI TAKEDOWN

Bhushan says he is of the opinion that over the last six years, “we have seen a striking decline in the role of the Supreme Court as being the guardian of the Constitution and rights of people.” And that during the terms of these last four CJIs, there has been an “abdication by the Supreme Court of its constitutional duty to protect basic constitutional values, fundamental rights of citizens and the Rule of Law.”
The highlights from the examples provided by Bhushan for this are as follows:

CJI Khehar’s Tenure (4 January 2017 - 27 August 2017)
  • The dismissal of the request for an investigation into the Sahara-Birla diaries which allegedly included reports of payments to PM Narendra Modi when he was chief minister of Gujarat. Heard by Justice Khehar before his appointment, then assigned to a bench headed by Justice Arun Mishra which dismissed it.
  • The handling of the Kalikho Pul suicide case, and the accusations made by him against Justice Khehar and others of corruption. Despite Pul’s wife sending a complaint for an inquiry on the administrative side of the Supreme Court, under the In-House Procedure, CJI Khehar had it listed on the judicial side as a case, causing her to withdraw the complaint.
CJI Misra’s Tenure (28 August 2017 to 1 October 2018)
  • The way the medical bribery cases were handled, in which CJI Misra himself was potentially implicated. After CJI Misra asserted his right as Master of the Roster to decide which judges would hear the case even though it related to him, petitions asking for a detailed inquiry were dismissed by a bench of Justices Arun Mishra, RK Agarwal and AM Khanwilkar.
  • The four judges’ press conference in January 2018, when they warned of the last two CJIs abusing their power as Master of the Roster to selectively assign important and politically sensitive cases to benches “of their preference” without any rational basis for such assignment.
  • Examples of this kind of problematic listing in the affidavit include the listing of the Judge Loya investigation case before Justice Arun Mishra, even though more senior judges were available, and the land acquisition cases controversy, where Justice Mishra questionably overturned four years of precedent.
CJI Gogoi’s Tenure (3 October 2018 - 17 November 2019)
  • The routine acceptance of information in sealed covers, including the Rafale case, the Alok Verma ‘CBI vs CBI’ case, and the Assam NRC matters.
  • The failure to list urgent and important cases like the challenge to the constitutionality of electoral bonds, the challenges to the ‘abrogation’ of Article 370, and the way in which habeas corpus petitions (particularly from Jammu and Kashmir) were not considered a priority.
  • The Ayodhya verdict of 9 November 2019, which held the site to belong to the Hindus despite holding that the demolition of the Babri Masjid was illegal, used dubious legal reasoning, didn’t name the author of the unanimous part of the judgment, and included an anonymous addendum that held that the disputed structure was the holy birthplace of Lord Ram – even though that wasn’t an issue for legal determination.
  • The way in which the sexual harassment case against CJI Gogoi was handled including him sitting on a bench and criticising the complainant, and his ‘quid pro quo’ nomination to the Rajya Sabha.
  • The modification of the Supreme Court Collegium’s recommendations for appointments and transfers of judges, following objections from the Centre, including the Justice Akil Kureshi controversy.
CJI Bobde’s Tenure (18 November 2019 - present)
  • The refusal to stay the Citizenship (Amendment) Act 2019 despite all the challenges to it, and not list the petitions either. In addition to this, the CJI refused to hear petitions regarding reports of police violence against protesters in Jamia Millia University and Aligarh Muslim University.
  • The handling of the migrant crisis after the imposition of the nationwide coronavirus lockdown, with a Supreme Court bench headed by CJI Bobde accepting the government’s claims that there were no more migrants on the road, and that the exodus was caused by fake/misleading news, on the basis of which several petitions were dismissed. This included the failure to issue guidelines on inter-state travel, including directions to the railways not to charge migrants. The court only took up the matter suo motu after strong criticism, including from retired judges.
  • The ‘outsourcing’ of a review of the 4G ban in Jammu and Kashmir to the executive (not by a bench on which the CJI was sitting) itself, and a failure to consider the necessity and proportionality of the move despite its severe consequences.
Bhushan argues that the tweets cannot be considered as contempt for the following reasons:
  • The CJI is not the Supreme Court, and so criticising the CJI about what he does during court vacations, or for failing to check the damage being done to Indian democracy, should not amount to contempt of the court itself. “To bona fide critique the actions of a CJI, or a succession of CJIs, cannot and does not scandalise the court, nor does it lower the authority of the court,” he writes, before adding, “To assume or suggest that ‘the CJI is the SC, and the SC is the CJI’ is to undermine the institution of the Supreme Court of India.”
  • Retired judges of the Supreme Court and even sitting judges who were part of the court during the tenure of the CJIs in question have criticised the way the court has operated, from recent speeches by Justices DY Chandrachud and Deepak Gupta, to the famous press conference on 12 January 2018, with Justices Chelameswar, Kurien Joseph, Madan Lokur and Ranjan Gogoi.
  • While Article 19(2) of the Constitution recognises contempt as a ground for restriction of freedom of speech, this has to be a ‘reasonable restriction’. Preventing citizens from forming and expressing a bonafide opinion about a constitutional institution and discussing this in the public domain to build public opinion for reform, is not a reasonable restriction.
  • Other democracies (including the United Kingdom, whose jurisprudence on contempt of court formed the basis for the concept in Indian law) have recognised that making ‘scandalising the court’ an offence is unconstitutional and should be abolished as it is inconsistent with the right to freedom of speech and a fair trial, “since it gives judges, alone, among wielders of power, a special immunity from criticism and a power where they sit as judges in their own cause, to punish their critics.”
https://www.thequint.com/news/law/d...eme-court-freedom-of-speech-cji-controversies
 

berbatrick

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  • The dismissal of the request for an investigation into the Sahara-Birla diaries which allegedly included reports of payments to PM Narendra Modi when he was chief minister of Gujarat. Heard by Justice Khehar before his appointment, then assigned to a bench headed by Justice Arun Mishra which dismissed it.
https://www.thequint.com/news/law/d...eme-court-freedom-of-speech-cji-controversies
I remember this one, it's when I realised the courts are behaving in a different way (trying to phrase this inoffensively). Even if the case wasn't watertight, there was some evidence, and they refused to investigate anything. Sharp contrast to 2G.
 

VidaRed

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I remember this one, it's when I realised the courts are behaving in a different way (trying to phrase this inoffensively). Even if the case wasn't watertight, there was some evidence, and they refused to investigate anything. Sharp contrast to 2G.
The CBI raided the offices of sahara and found certain documents which showed how much money was paid to which politician. The politicians named were from other parties too but modi's name was also mentioned. Initially it was argued that it was some other modi but in another document it was written cm modi. Since the cbi is a caged parrot it wasn't investigating the matter, therefore a petition was filed in the sc that certain documents were found during a raid and therefore the court direct the cbi/police to investigate the matter. They never asked that modi be convicted, they only asked that it be investigated. However the court dismissed the matter and the cbi never investigated it.

Intertingly prashant bhushan was also involved in the 2g case and wasn't labelled an anti national. Only a dickhead will believe he's a congress agent, the amount of cases he filed against upa govt brought bad rep to the then govt. His cases back then were not thrown out by the SC and infact the court used to drag the govt over hot coals quite regularly.
 
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berbatrick

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The CBI raided the offices of sahara and found certain documents which showed how much money was paid to which politician. The politicians named were from other parties too but modi's name was also mentioned. Initially it was argued that it was some other modi but in another document it was written cm modi. Since the cbi is a caged parrot it wasn't investigating the matter, therefore a petition was filed in the sc that certain documents were found during a raid and therefore the court direct the cbi/police to investigate the matter. They never asked that modi be convicted, they only asked that it be investigated. However the court dismissed the matter and the cbi never investigated it.
yup i remember it clearly. some online outlet had a scan of the diary also, it mentioned cm gujarat or something like that. sheila dikshit was also there, and some other CMs.
 

coolredwine

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In Reply to Contempt Case, Bhushan Offers Detailed Critique of SC
Activist-lawyer says criticism of SC can’t be contempt, lists controversial decisions from last 4 CJIs’ tenures.
Advocate Prashant Bhushan has come out swinging in his reply to the Supreme Court’s contempt case against him for recent tweets, defending the views expressed in those tweets about current Chief Justice of India SA Bobde’s photos on a superbike, as well as his statement that the Supreme Court has played a role in the destruction of Indian democracy over the last six years. In the reply affidavit dated 2 August, Bhushan has also provided a detailed critique of the Supreme Court’s decisions and decision-making to justify his opinion of the court, including a list of problematic incidents and orders of the court under the last four CJIs, broken down by their respective tenures.

THE CJI-BY-CJI TAKEDOWN

Bhushan says he is of the opinion that over the last six years, “we have seen a striking decline in the role of the Supreme Court as being the guardian of the Constitution and rights of people.” And that during the terms of these last four CJIs, there has been an “abdication by the Supreme Court of its constitutional duty to protect basic constitutional values, fundamental rights of citizens and the Rule of Law.”
The highlights from the examples provided by Bhushan for this are as follows:

CJI Khehar’s Tenure (4 January 2017 - 27 August 2017)
  • The dismissal of the request for an investigation into the Sahara-Birla diaries which allegedly included reports of payments to PM Narendra Modi when he was chief minister of Gujarat. Heard by Justice Khehar before his appointment, then assigned to a bench headed by Justice Arun Mishra which dismissed it.
  • The handling of the Kalikho Pul suicide case, and the accusations made by him against Justice Khehar and others of corruption. Despite Pul’s wife sending a complaint for an inquiry on the administrative side of the Supreme Court, under the In-House Procedure, CJI Khehar had it listed on the judicial side as a case, causing her to withdraw the complaint.
CJI Misra’s Tenure (28 August 2017 to 1 October 2018)
  • The way the medical bribery cases were handled, in which CJI Misra himself was potentially implicated. After CJI Misra asserted his right as Master of the Roster to decide which judges would hear the case even though it related to him, petitions asking for a detailed inquiry were dismissed by a bench of Justices Arun Mishra, RK Agarwal and AM Khanwilkar.
  • The four judges’ press conference in January 2018, when they warned of the last two CJIs abusing their power as Master of the Roster to selectively assign important and politically sensitive cases to benches “of their preference” without any rational basis for such assignment.
  • Examples of this kind of problematic listing in the affidavit include the listing of the Judge Loya investigation case before Justice Arun Mishra, even though more senior judges were available, and the land acquisition cases controversy, where Justice Mishra questionably overturned four years of precedent.
CJI Gogoi’s Tenure (3 October 2018 - 17 November 2019)
  • The routine acceptance of information in sealed covers, including the Rafale case, the Alok Verma ‘CBI vs CBI’ case, and the Assam NRC matters.
  • The failure to list urgent and important cases like the challenge to the constitutionality of electoral bonds, the challenges to the ‘abrogation’ of Article 370, and the way in which habeas corpus petitions (particularly from Jammu and Kashmir) were not considered a priority.
  • The Ayodhya verdict of 9 November 2019, which held the site to belong to the Hindus despite holding that the demolition of the Babri Masjid was illegal, used dubious legal reasoning, didn’t name the author of the unanimous part of the judgment, and included an anonymous addendum that held that the disputed structure was the holy birthplace of Lord Ram – even though that wasn’t an issue for legal determination.
  • The way in which the sexual harassment case against CJI Gogoi was handled including him sitting on a bench and criticising the complainant, and his ‘quid pro quo’ nomination to the Rajya Sabha.
  • The modification of the Supreme Court Collegium’s recommendations for appointments and transfers of judges, following objections from the Centre, including the Justice Akil Kureshi controversy.
CJI Bobde’s Tenure (18 November 2019 - present)
  • The refusal to stay the Citizenship (Amendment) Act 2019 despite all the challenges to it, and not list the petitions either. In addition to this, the CJI refused to hear petitions regarding reports of police violence against protesters in Jamia Millia University and Aligarh Muslim University.
  • The handling of the migrant crisis after the imposition of the nationwide coronavirus lockdown, with a Supreme Court bench headed by CJI Bobde accepting the government’s claims that there were no more migrants on the road, and that the exodus was caused by fake/misleading news, on the basis of which several petitions were dismissed. This included the failure to issue guidelines on inter-state travel, including directions to the railways not to charge migrants. The court only took up the matter suo motu after strong criticism, including from retired judges.
  • The ‘outsourcing’ of a review of the 4G ban in Jammu and Kashmir to the executive (not by a bench on which the CJI was sitting) itself, and a failure to consider the necessity and proportionality of the move despite its severe consequences.
Bhushan argues that the tweets cannot be considered as contempt for the following reasons:
  • The CJI is not the Supreme Court, and so criticising the CJI about what he does during court vacations, or for failing to check the damage being done to Indian democracy, should not amount to contempt of the court itself. “To bona fide critique the actions of a CJI, or a succession of CJIs, cannot and does not scandalise the court, nor does it lower the authority of the court,” he writes, before adding, “To assume or suggest that ‘the CJI is the SC, and the SC is the CJI’ is to undermine the institution of the Supreme Court of India.”
  • Retired judges of the Supreme Court and even sitting judges who were part of the court during the tenure of the CJIs in question have criticised the way the court has operated, from recent speeches by Justices DY Chandrachud and Deepak Gupta, to the famous press conference on 12 January 2018, with Justices Chelameswar, Kurien Joseph, Madan Lokur and Ranjan Gogoi.
  • While Article 19(2) of the Constitution recognises contempt as a ground for restriction of freedom of speech, this has to be a ‘reasonable restriction’. Preventing citizens from forming and expressing a bonafide opinion about a constitutional institution and discussing this in the public domain to build public opinion for reform, is not a reasonable restriction.
  • Other democracies (including the United Kingdom, whose jurisprudence on contempt of court formed the basis for the concept in Indian law) have recognised that making ‘scandalising the court’ an offence is unconstitutional and should be abolished as it is inconsistent with the right to freedom of speech and a fair trial, “since it gives judges, alone, among wielders of power, a special immunity from criticism and a power where they sit as judges in their own cause, to punish their critics.”
https://www.thequint.com/news/law/d...eme-court-freedom-of-speech-cji-controversies
Did he bring up all of these in the hearing yesterday? Haven’t followed it properly.
 

berbatrick

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Did he bring up all of these in the hearing yesterday? Haven’t followed it properly.
i followed his lawyer (dusyant dave) arguments in the case. there was a lot of stuff.
first he brought up some old precendents abotu contempt of court from indian SC and from england. but he also talked about why p b might be angry with judges. for that he brought up gogoi's sexual harrasment case, sc refusing to take up challenges to CAA, refusing to take action on kashmir, and on migrant workers during covid. finally he said people have seen the composition of benches and that fali nariman never gets important cases.
 

VidaRed

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Did he bring up all of these in the hearing yesterday? Haven’t followed it properly.
He submitted it in writing to the court. Although its nothing new, its been gossiped about openly by lawyers in the corridors and canteens of the supreme court and the delhi high court. Then again it might be news to the common public.
 

VidaRed

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Massive silence all around by the self-proclaimed thekedars of patriotism, they're actually anti-national bigots hiding behind the veil of patriotism. Never have i seen a country's territory being taken over without a even a squeak by the govt or the public at large. Patriotism my arse!




 
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