Dutch football announce pilot scheme where a woman will play with a man's team in the 10th tier of Dutch football

Charles Miller said:

I can't see why it would be a problem a priori. If a woman can make it at a higher level, it remains to be seen. But they should be allowed to try.

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I agree, and on a personal level I'm delighted for the girl that she's allowed to continue her career. I get that football is a contact sport, but it's not like boxing or MMA where there's some clear, obvious physical danger with allowing women to test the waters and see what level they can reach.

Lu Tze said:

Sounds like a really positive step. It is highly likely that 99% of women footballers can't play at the standard required, but it's ridiculous to think that there is not one woman who has the physical attributes to play professionally, and gender rules should not hold that person back. Women can sprint 11 second 100ms and run marathons in 2 and a bit hours, they can play a game of football.

The stuff about 'oh men will worry about tackling her' - that's their problem and no-one elses.

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It's something that will require monitoring in fairness, and I don't think it's fair to completely dismiss the difficulties that will arise for referees in particular as, for example, teammates and fans acclimatise to seeing their waif-like female forward getting cleaned out in a tackle by some huge, hairy-arsed opposition centre-back. Agreed that it absolutely doesn't justify halting this experiment, and I completely agree that people tend to massively underestimate what females are capable of athletically.


That's a 59kg (9 and a bit stone) woman chucking a 140kg (nearly 22 stone) barbell over her head and making it look easy. I know that I'm 13 stone, have lifted weights recreationally for around 2 decades on and off, and have never came remotely close to lifting that sort of weight overhead, and I'm sure most of the members of this forum haven't either. Obviously she's the best female in the world in her discipline at that weight class, and there's many males at a similar weight that can equal or better her performance, but she's clearly miles above the typical human being at her weight, male or female, and there's obviously certain national or more commonly regional-level competitions that she'd win. There's clearly some level where elite females can compete against non-elite males in sport, and I see no reason to deny them the opportunity to try it out in sports where safety concerns don't make it too dangerous.

Amar__ said:

What?

I bet there isn't single female football player that is stronger on her feet than Silva is. Let alone combined with the technique he has. I am sorry but your comment is ridiculous.

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But there's probably loads of female athletes that could either out-sprint David Silva over a 100m, out-perform him in some distance runs, or out-lift him in any weightlifting or powerlifting disciplie. I agree that it's almost incomprehensible that any female will both match his technical skill and rival him in all those areas of speed, endurance and power, but you don't have to equal David Silva to be a decent footballer. I just don't see the harm in establishing what level a female footballer can reach.

Pat_Mustard said:

But there's probably loads of female athletes that could either out-sprint David Silva over a 100m, out-perform him in some distance runs, or out-lift him in any weightlifting or powerlifting disciplie. I agree that it's almost incomprehensible that any female will both match his technical skill and rival him in all those areas of speed, endurance and power, but you don't have to equal David Silva to be a decent footballer. I just don't see the harm in establishing what level a female footballer can reach.

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Football is a full body cantact sport. It doesn't matter if any female athletes could out-perform him in any runs or lifting, in a professional sport you have to focus what you are playing not what you can do in other sport.

Even the female athletes knows their limit to compete with men, this is what Marta said about the chance of her to be professional in men's football.
"To go out there and (play in the men's game) I just don't see it. We have the ability, we have the technique, we have the tactics. But the physical limitations are there."
"For example, I could be on a team with men and not have a problem, but then one person might want to prove a point and become very physical - and it doesn't really make sense."

Number32 said:

Football is a full body cantact sport. It doesn't matter if any female athletes could out-perform him in any runs or lifting, in a professional sport you have to focus what you are playing not what you can do in other sport.

Even the female athletes knows their limit to compete with men, this is what Marta said about the chance of her to be professional in men's football.
"To go out there and (play in the men's game) I just don't see it. We have the ability, we have the technique, we have the tactics. But the physical limitations are there."
"For example, I could be on a team with men and not have a problem, but then one person might want to prove a point and become very physical - and it doesn't really make sense."

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That doesn't contradict anything that I said. What's the problem with allowing females to demonstrate what level they can compete at by actually competing with men?

Pat_Mustard said:

That doesn't contradict anything that I said. What's the problem with allowing females to demonstrate what level they can compete at by actually competing with men?

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There is no problem in training or meaningless exhibition match. Marta has been doing that for more than decades, she is training with professional footballers in Brasil. The problem is when people asking her to "actually competing" with men, and her response is the perfect answer for your questions.

There is no need doing more silly experiment about this. There are more important issues out there for female athletes.

Le Red said:

What isn't true?

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It's not true that trans women are smashing records, not even without their hands tied.

NotThatSoph said:

It's not true that trans women are smashing records, not even without their hands tied.

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Yes they are, hands tied being an obvious hyperbole.
In the very short period since they're allowed to complete, several records have been done and dusted by athletes who were mediocre at best before the transition.
It's only a matter of time before each and every female record in sports belong to transgender athletes, who were not even elite athletes to begin with.
Whether you are pro or against transgender athletes in female sports, this is an undeniable truth.

Edit. I feel like we're hijacking the thread already so I'll stop here. I've said my piece and the future will show what happens.

Le Red said:

Yes they are, hands tied being an obvious hyperbole.
In the very short period since they're allowed to complete, several records have been done and dusted by athletes who were mediocre at best before the transition.
It's only a matter of time before each and every female record in sports belong to transgender athletes, who were not even elite athletes to begin with.
Whether you are pro or against transgender athletes in female sports, this is an undeniable truth.

Edit. I feel like we're hijacking the thread already so I'll stop here. I've said my piece and the future will show what happens.

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Name them.

Number32 said:

There is no need doing more silly experiment about this. There are more important issues out there for female athletes.

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Not for this one woman who would like to keep playing with her friends at the Dutch 10th tier of football. Keep in mind that this pilot isn't about equity or anything like that, the Dutch FA are just loosening a rule so a situation like this woman's doesn't have to exist. There's nothing bigger going on here.

Revan said:

It is 10th level of Dutch football, anyone who can run and has played football in their life would be able to compete at that level.

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Good for you that you're playing at that level. I don't think I can manage.