SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

JPRouve

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That’s correct. You’re getting there. Next lesson: why anecdotes about individuals has no place in science.
It has a very important place from an observational standpoint which is a big part of science, it's just not the basis for systematic answers.
 

hmchan

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There are valid points in there, but what do you mean by people can’t meet, socialise etc. Apart from the local area lock downs, there’s no real restrictions on that.

Personally my quality of life has probably gone up with commuting less and using Teams for communication. My carbon footprint will have been massively reduced too. I understand this is specific to me, but I certainly won’t be going back spending my money on over priced food and coffee for the sake of convenience. We shouldn’t have a system where the economy is relying on me spending more money than I need too on something like food.

I agree the government is a shambles. They locked down at least a week too late and have been on the back foot ever since, but you’re asking for a solution that basically no one has at the moment. In an ideal world we can close our eyes and pretend we can go back to normal, but then you end up with 160k deaths and rising cases.

Im sure I’ll be told we should have just copied Sweden and everything would have been fine.
I agree with you. While this pandemic is undoubtedly causing a lot of problems to the world, it actually provides an opportunity for us to transform into a better society and economy. The productivity doesn't necessarily drop working from home, in some business it is actually more efficient as it saves time from transportation. People can also work in a more comfortable environment with a computer they are familiar with. Twitter and Square have already announced that they provide their employees an option to work from home permanently.

The same also applies to education. With online teaching, students don't have to wake up at 6am in the morning attending lectures where they fall asleep in. They can review the contents when they want to or in revision. I understand there are some face-to-face experience that can never be replaced (e.g. lab work, exams), and the current lockdown measures are too extreme to adopt sustainably, but there are ways that the society can operate more efficiently than before. We shouldn't stick to the tradition just because we're used to it, we should always look for better ways to create a better world.
 

Pogue Mahone

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ha ha, yeah I get that, but I think it’s dangerous to start claiming mild cases are showing heart disease in 70+% of subjects, unless you believe there’s any truth in that?
I do believe there’s some truth in that. But it’s a single, small, study. So it’s definitely possible they recruited a very unlucky set of patients. Or the selection was biased to feature mainly people at the more severe end of the non-hospitalised (aka “mild”) cases. Or the testing was flawed. Or any one of loads of other reasons for a single study to produce misleading results. What I don’t believe is that the disease classification they used was incorrect. It’s standard and the best way to study an illness where severity can be so subjective.

Bigger studies will generate more data which will paint a much clearer picture about the consequences of this disease for people who never end up sick enough to end in hospital (i.e. most people) Meanwhile, studies like this do raise a red flag and I don’t think we should call them “junk science” because the results worry us.
 

redshaw

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I’m British and I’m calling Bojo and his cronies fecking numpties.

Have another go at that post now @redshaw

And yes, Brits were locked in, it wasn’t soft at all. Brits were allowed out once a day for exercise.
Again compared to Spain France and Italy it was soft and there's no all in lockdowns going on. It was relatively soft before and very relaxed right now and everyone has changed their behaviour here and managing the situation. So yes a big overreation from you from afar, brit or not.
 

Dancfc

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Soft was Denmark, Germany etc when they were allowed to roam freely, but all aside from essential businesses were all shut down.
Being “allowed out” for exercise once a day and not allowed to national parks or walks in the Peak District aint “easy” lockdown.
What was even more mind-blowing is there were people that were actively calling for even the one hours outside to be taken away.

It's one thing doing what needed to be done, but people calling for extra unnecessary Draconian measures is something potential future governments have noted make no mistake about that.
 

Dancfc

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Again compared to Spain France and Italy it was soft and there's no all in lockdowns going on. It was relatively soft before and very relaxed right now and everyone has changed their behaviour here and managing the situation. So yes a big overreation from you from afar, brit or not.
By that logic Italy and Spain's lockdowns were soft because they weren't Wuhan or South Africa.

Less tough can still be tough.
 

Pogue Mahone

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What was even more mind-blowing is there were people that were actively calling for even the one hours outside to be taken away.

It's one thing doing what needed to be done, but people calling for extra unnecessary Draconian measures is something potential future governments have noted make no mistake about that.
Have you heard of anyone, anywhere in the UK, getting any kind of punishment for breaking lockdown rules? I certainly haven’t. So the UK experience was a million miles away from what people in countries like Spain and Italy went through and not even close to “draconian”.
 

Dancfc

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Have you heard of anyone, anywhere in the UK, getting any kind of punishment for breaking lockdown rules? I certainly haven’t. So the UK experience was a million miles away from what people in countries like Spain and Italy went through and not even close to “draconian”.
And like I just said, Italy/Spain were themselves a million miles away from Wuhan/South Africa and places were you'd be beaten to a pulp for leaving your house.

Just because people in flats were granted a bit of fresh air in the same (nearest) open space doesn't mean it was easy.
 

redshaw

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Soft was Denmark, Germany etc when they were allowed to roam freely, but all aside from essential businesses were all shut down.
Being “allowed out” for exercise once a day and not allowed to national parks or walks in the Peak District aint “easy” lockdown.

Does @redshaw actually think Bojo and co have done a good job? I’d argue along with the US they’ve been the most inconsistent numpties throughout this entire pandemic. The difference with Ireland for example is night and day.
No, they've done a bad job, Spain worse so far, we might join them, we'll see.

Just pointing out we haven't gone "all in" with these so called local lockdowns and right now things here are open and relaxed, people have changed their behaviour. That's what I'm picking up on.

This level of lockdown of the past from Wuhan to Sweden is a digression away from your overreaction to now and most here were out all day enjoying the sun anyway despite this one hour of exercise.
 

Pogue Mahone

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And like I just said, Italy/Spain were themselves a million miles away from Wuhan/South Africa and places were you'd be beaten to a pulp for leaving your house.

Just because people in flats were granted a bit of fresh air in the same (nearest) open space doesn't mean it was easy.
Nobody is saying its easy! I’m not even sure what point you’re making anyway. The UK has - compared to almost every other European country - been relatively “soft” in terms of what it has asked of its citizens. Where they really dropped a bollox was the delay at the start of the lockdown. From then on it’s not been much different to most other countries. Albeit at the less restrictive end of the spectrum and slightly slower to come out of lockdown because it took longer to flatten the curve.
 

jojojo

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Manchester's figures are still rising, though with some reason to believe the trend is slowing again. Targeted testing, particularly in Oldham may account for some of it.



Pretty safe bet that the local restrictions/advice won't be changing this week.
 

Kazi

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You see how Andorra, Belgium and Bahamas were given 48 hours before quarantining for returnees starts. Has this always been the case?
 
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This level of lockdown of the past from Wuhan to Sweden is a digression away from your overreaction to now and most here were out all day enjoying the sun anyway despite this one hour of exercise.
My reaction is that quickly closing down all of Aberdeen for a little spike is over the top nonsense, they need to allow people to deal with it as that is a long term plan. Plenty of countries are doing exactly that, successfully.
If that’s an overreaction is your eyes, so be it.
 

Jacko21

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Manchester's figures are still rising, though with some reason to believe the trend is slowing again. Targeted testing, particularly in Oldham may account for some of it.



Pretty safe bet that the local restrictions/advice won't be changing this week.
Re positive downward trend in Trafford - cases spiked last week after increased testing. Majority of known cases are amongst under 25s.
 

redshaw

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My reaction is that quickly closing down all of Aberdeen for a little spike is over the top nonsense, they need to allow people to deal with it as that is a long term plan. Plenty of countries are doing exactly that, successfully.
If that’s an overreaction is your eyes, so be it.
Well the Scottish government and Nicola Sturgeon have decided to do that outside of the UK government. I'm not in agreement with it but we see with some smaller countries they have low numbers and get down to zero deaths and want to jump on anything while larger more connected countries are just living with it like England.
 

ThierryHenry

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Cases have been slowly rising for a month now but despite that hospitalisations keep going down. I'd like to think it's because the virus is weakening but in reality it's probably because more younger people are catching it combined with more targeted testing in hotspots and the random testing Imperial College London are doing (which is catching more asymptotic cases).
Fantastic news.
 

hmchan

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Hong Kong is now offering a city-wide free testing for all citizens, but as a healthcare professional I'm afraid this brings more bad than good to us. People would easily regard a negative result as a safe pass and neglect all those social distancing measures.
 

Maluco

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The study says 70+% of the group had heart issues after recovery.
If we’re saying they had “mild” Covid-19 then that’s what we’re saying.
That’s a very narrow way of looking at the study. It simply suggests the potential. The mere suggestion should be cause for caution though. There is a need for more studies from a wider cross section of society. I think that’s all the studies would suggest at this stage.
 

Dancfc

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They probably will be soon, but it’s normal for the UK to be reluctant given it’s the biggest direct border and there are huge numbers of UK people in France and vice versa.
Plus people who want to travel somewhere in Europe by car (which i can imagine a lot are due to paranoia over planes being grounded) will more than likely have to go through France.
 
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They probably will be soon, but it’s normal for the UK to be reluctant given it’s the biggest direct border and there are huge numbers of UK people in France and vice versa.
It won’t do much for International relations with Spain & Portugal.

On a side note, we had minus 3 deaths here in Sweden, that’s always nice.
Just 36 now in ICU.
 

redshaw

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53656852

Good article on BBC about the small case rises and eludes to what I think F-Red was saying, at the moment things are going well so far factoring in the increased testing and targeting areas, we might just be doing reasonably well in the aftermath while other countries are seeing bigger rises.