The mask debate

Will you wear a mask/face covering?

  • No issue wearing one; it’s the right thing to do

    Votes: 424 63.3%
  • Yes but only if it’s mandatory

    Votes: 96 14.3%
  • Only in stores and public transport

    Votes: 126 18.8%
  • No (for health reasons)

    Votes: 4 0.6%
  • No (believe it doesn’t help)

    Votes: 8 1.2%
  • No (don’t like being told what to do. My choice)

    Votes: 12 1.8%

  • Total voters
    670

Wibble

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Even if not perfect, I think if everyone treated it like you then it’d be a big help.
Sadly before getting laid off at the end of June, I had an extra part time job at the airport (to help pay for my June wedding that obviously didn’t happen) and the majority don’t. The majority are total and utter morons when it comes to how they handle their masks.
People wearing it under you nose drives me mad. You still get people pushing past in escalators without masks when it is impossible to distance. The 30 seconds added to their journey to the supermarket surely can't be that important?
 

Wibble

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Sad.

Which is why I support mandatory vaccination. It is a pretty serious disease, and a lot of people who have auto-immune problems are dependent on the rest of society to not act in a selfish way.
And those too young to get a particular vaccination. The risk/reward is so overwhelming I can't understand people refusing. Lazy I get but refusing for a non-medical reason makes no sense.
 

Kentonio

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Anti-maskers biggest reason for not masking up is because they believe that if society agrees on wearing masks now and we are complaint with the government - when will the line be drawn?

They suggest that if we agree to masks now, we will agree to mandatory vaccination when the times comes.

To be honest, I'm not anti-mask for the most part... but they do have a good point. This might lead a slippery slope where they enforce vaccination.

I am 1000000% against this covid vaccine so I am worried. Lots of caf members here love the MSM so I know this will trigger a lot of you.
People need to feck off with this 'slippery slope' shite. Those same people happy agree to let the tech companies have literally all their most personal data, let the government spy on them, put up with stuff that pisses on freedom at every turn, but suddenly putting a mask on is the red line. What a lot of fecking bollocks.
 

Penna

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Hopefully it’s just eczema. Someone said in passing so I just assumed and didn’t bother with it other than getting lotions to put on. It’s only small patches on my foot and leg. It’s the leg I have damaged lymph nodes and my foot swells up so I don’t know if it’s a connection
Yes, very likely there is a connection. I've had the same kind of thing as you in the past, but this is different.
 

F-Red

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People need to feck off with this 'slippery slope' shite. Those same people happy agree to let the tech companies have literally all their most personal data, let the government spy on them, put up with stuff that pisses on freedom at every turn, but suddenly putting a mask on is the red line. What a lot of fecking bollocks.
Exactly, a face covering is the least of their worries.
 

Mr Pigeon

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What do people here think of the folk who wear those full face shields with no mask? Saw three "don't even DARE say anything to me or I'll make a scene" types wearing them in the shops today.
 

WI_Red

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What do people here think of the folk who wear those full face shields with no mask? Saw three "don't even DARE say anything to me or I'll make a scene" types wearing them in the shops today.
Are you sure they were not just professional welders out on a lunch break?
 

sebsheep

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What do people here think of the folk who wear those full face shields with no mask? Saw three "don't even DARE say anything to me or I'll make a scene" types wearing them in the shops today.
I thought that they were mainly to help reduce the risk of you catching it rather than lowering the chances of you spreading it like a mask does.
 

WI_Red

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I thought that they were mainly to help reduce the risk of you catching it rather than lowering the chances of you spreading it like a mask does.
Pretty much. From what I have read they are excellent at reducing the chance of aerosolized droplets from coming into contact with wearer (Article ). However, I think they less effective at preventing spready of aerosols by wearer unless they are sealed since the act of sneezing will generate enough force for the droplets to flow around the shield. This is why you will see hospital workers wearing both (just google face shield hospital).

Back to MP's question, as long as they are not welders on a break my guess would be they simply do not know the above, or simply don't care. I have only seen one person wearing both when I was out shopping. She also had on gloves and scowled at anyone within 10 feet.
 

Revan

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The last time I had vaccinations was over 20 years ago, just for going on holiday to somewhere tropical. I ended up limping, in a neuro unit with spinal cord damage equivalent to an MS attack. I seem to develop a new auto-immune problem every few years now, the latest one is psoriasis. Prior to the neuro damage, I'd been able to have various vaccinations with no side-effects.

I'm just hoping that it doesn't become mandatory to show your vaccination card to gain entry to other countries - or at least, that people like me can get some kind of official exemption.
Shit, I am sorry.

It pisses me off that people can be so selfish as to not get vaccinated for some bizarre reasons. People who cannot get vaccinated, the elderly to whom the vaccines have less effects, babies etc are all dependent on the rest of us behaving in a collective manner (with the added bonus that then we don't get sick). I mean, diseases that were de-facto eradicated in West (like measles) are coming back to haunt us cause of smartarses who think that tare illuminated cause they saw some conspiracy video in youtube.
 

Revan

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And those too young to get a particular vaccination. The risk/reward is so overwhelming I can't understand people refusing. Lazy I get but refusing for a non-medical reason makes no sense.
One of the things that should be regulated with law.

Sure, it is your freedom to not get vaccinated. It is also the state's freedom to deny you any medical services, any possible assistance, schools for your kids (though that is a bit more complicated cause the poor kids are not fault for having idiot parents), public transport and so on. You behave like a prick, so should the state.
 

Mr Pigeon

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Never mind the mask debate, what happened to people wearing gloves when they go into shops? Haven't seen a pair since the mask rules started.
 

F-Red

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Never mind the mask debate, what happened to people wearing gloves when they go into shops? Haven't seen a pair since the mask rules started.
Wearing gloves is useless in shops. Hand washing alone is a better control.
 

sebsheep

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:lol:

Ah, so it's a "I'm alright but feck everyone else" thing. Maybe...
I think it's probably just a lack of understanding about them, it seems like a lot of trouble to go to if you just don't care about others.
 

freeurmind

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One of the things that should be regulated with law.

Sure, it is your freedom to not get vaccinated. It is also the state's freedom to deny you any medical services, any possible assistance, schools for your kids (though that is a bit more complicated cause the poor kids are not fault for having idiot parents), public transport and so on. You behave like a prick, so should the state.
You're free to build yourself a car with no seatbelts but just can't drive on a public road with one.
 

onemanarmy

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One of my best mates works as an machine engineer in hospitals in Belgium and Holland. In Holland it's not even mandatory to wear a mask in a hospital, let alone bars, restaurants or the public domain. Seems insane to me. Everyone is out and about in big groups, hugging and kissing, without any form of protection. I hope for their sake there isn't a massive increase in numbers the next few weeks.
 

Sarni

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One of the things that should be regulated with law.

Sure, it is your freedom to not get vaccinated. It is also the state's freedom to deny you any medical services, any possible assistance, schools for your kids (though that is a bit more complicated cause the poor kids are not fault for having idiot parents), public transport and so on. You behave like a prick, so should the state.
That freedom debate is mind boggling. Apparently requiring you to wear a mask is a massive violation of your freedom but I haven't seen people complain that they actually have to wear clothes when they are outside ('it should be my choice if I want to go naked or not'), or that they have to pay for things they buy ('it should be my choice whether I pay or not'). Society will full freedom has never existed and will never exist, it's a fallacy.
 

UnrelatedPsuedo

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I wore a mask (one of the heavier cotton ones) for the first time ever while exercising recently. It took a bit of getting used to. Can feel quite claustrophobic when you’re really working hard. Almost an anxious sort of feeling. It does pass though. I’m sure I’ll get used to It.
This needs to be understood.

I have been 50m underwater with a direct supply of oxygen in my mouth. I STILL had the mental panic of ‘I can’t breathe’.

It’s in peoples heads. People too often mistake ‘New’ or ‘Undesired’ with ‘Bad’ or ‘Wrong’.

Masks do not stop you breathing. Empathy should be given to those who suggest they do. They’re freaking out. It’s ok for them to feel uncontrollable emotions. Folks need to talk to them. Help. Not fcuking criticise. That just radicalises them.
 

UnrelatedPsuedo

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Anti-maskers biggest reason for not masking up is because they believe that if society agrees on wearing masks now and we are complaint with the government - when will the line be drawn?

They suggest that if we agree to masks now, we will agree to mandatory vaccination when the times comes.

To be honest, I'm not anti-mask for the most part... but they do have a good point. This might lead a slippery slope where they enforce vaccination.

I am 1000000% against this covid vaccine so I am worried. Lots of caf members here love the MSM so I know this will trigger a lot of you.
1. The bold isn’t their biggest reason. It’s just the most socially acceptable.

2. There is no slippery slope. All of the fcuking idiots are arguing against masks. The intelligent are wearing them. If governments try to do something bad, the intelligent people will join the idiots to stop it.

3. What kind of fresh hell is your closing line all about? People here are generally anti-media and pro science/fact. What is ‘MSM’? Whoever you pick, they’re not vaccinating you. You’re living in your head.
 

hmchan

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One of my best mates works as an machine engineer in hospitals in Belgium and Holland. In Holland it's not even mandatory to wear a mask in a hospital, let alone bars, restaurants or the public domain. Seems insane to me. Everyone is out and about in big groups, hugging and kissing, without any form of protection. I hope for their sake there isn't a massive increase in numbers the next few weeks.
Many countries are actually adopting undeclared herd immunity. They don't say it just because they don't want to be criticized like the UK. Whether it works we'll wait and see.
 

Rajma

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This needs to be understood.

I have been 50m underwater with a direct supply of oxygen in my mouth. I STILL had the mental panic of ‘I can’t breathe’.

It’s in peoples heads. People too often mistake ‘New’ or ‘Undesired’ with ‘Bad’ or ‘Wrong’.

Masks do not stop you breathing. Empathy should be given to those who suggest they do. They’re freaking out. It’s ok for them to feel uncontrollable emotions. Folks need to talk to them. Help. Not fcuking criticise. That just radicalises them.
Impressive. I've tried scuba-diving a few times, going to 20m depths in the open ocean but my anxiety just got the better of me and I wouldn't repeat it again anytime soon.
 

Revan

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Many countries are actually adopting undeclared herd immunity. They don't say it just because they don't want to be criticized like the UK. Whether it works we'll wait and see.
Many countries are stupid. There cannot be herd immunity for a disease that can reinfect you after 3-6 months.
 

hmchan

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Many countries are stupid. There cannot be herd immunity for a disease that can reinfect you after 3-6 months.
I still don't understand this slippery slope. The antibody titre drops after 3 months, but this doesn't mean you will get the same disease after that period. On secondary exposure, the memory B cells will produce a large amount of specific antibodies in a short period of time, which in turn protect you from infection. This is called adaptive immunity. Vaccination basically works in the same way but no one is calling it stupid.
 

Revan

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I still don't understand this slippery slope. The antibody titre drops after 3 months, but this doesn't mean you will get the same disease after that period. On secondary exposure, the memory B cells will produce a large amount of specific antibodies in a short period of time, which in turn protect you from infection. This is called adaptive immunity. Vaccination basically works in the same way but no one is calling it stupid.
It is not clear that is true, in fact, there is anecdotal evidence of being reinfected, some of them actually having more severe disease. It is also known, that people can be reinfected in a relatively short time from the same coronavirus (4 of them cause the common cold).

There won't be a vaccine for life, this isn't measles or smallpox. Likely we will need to get revaccinated like for flu (every year if we are lucky) or probably every few months. Also, vaccines simulate more the immune system than the disease itself (one of the vaccine studies - forgot which one - showed that in primates, it was producing three times as many antibodies than the disease).
 

hmchan

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It is not clear that is true, in fact, there is anecdotal evidence of being reinfected, some of them actually having more severe disease. It is also known, that people can be reinfected in a relatively short time from the same coronavirus (4 of them cause the common cold).

There won't be a vaccine for life, this isn't measles or smallpox. Likely we will need to get revaccinated like for flu (every year if we are lucky) or probably every few months. Also, vaccines simulate more the immune system than the disease itself (one of the vaccine studies - forgot which one - showed that in primates, it was producing three times as many antibodies than the disease).
It's not clear whether reinfection is possible either. Before there's any concrete case study supporting that theory, I'd rather trust the biomedical knowledge that has well been established for years rather than some anecdotal evidence. It has been 7 months since the inital outbreak in Wuhan and there hasn't been a single reported case of reinfection.

Vaccines are designed to mimic the pathogen or at least part of it, so it is basically simulating the virus to elicit immune response. It may be more potent than an ordinary infection but there is no way it simulates the immune system.
 

Revan

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It's not clear whether reinfection is possible either. Before there's any concrete case study supporting that theory, I'd rather trust the biomedical knowledge that has well been established for years rather than some anecdotal evidence. It has been 7 months since the inital outbreak in Wuhan and there hasn't been a single reported case of reinfection.
What are you on about? Of course, there are multiple cases of people being reinfected. There was the case in the US when he got 2 negative tests and got released, to only get infected 3 months later and suffer worse. At the beginning, we thought that might be just mistaken on tests from South Korea, but it is clear that is not the case now that we know more about the virus.

And there is no biomedical knowledge that says that you cannot get reinfected from the same virus. In fact, more often than not you can. Like from flu. Or from the common cold (some of which are caused from coronaviruses, so close to this disease). Or from yellow fever. In fact, even from measles (which generates an extreme immune response) while highly unlikely, you can still get reinfected. From coronaviruses, the question is not if you can get reinfected, but when you can get reinfected. The hope was that it cannot be for 1-3 years (MERS and SARS), but it seems that it can be much shorter than that. Because people can get reinfected with the same disease, they get revaccinated for some (flu for example) or get vaccine boosters later.

Which makes herd immunity the most ridiculous idea since Trump wanted to nuke a hurricane.

Vaccines are designed to mimic the pathogen or at least part of it, so it is basically simulating the virus to elicit immune response. It may be more potent than an ordinary infection but there is no way it simulates the immune system.
That study showed that primates getting the vaccine were generating 3 times as many antibodies than those who got the disease. Additionally, modern vaccines do not mimic the virus, they instead give information on how to fight the virus (though these types of vaccines have not been successful yet, but that is what Moderna and co. are trying). People are not gonna get weakened/dead versions of the virus int heir bodies.
 

Zlatan 7

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@Revan i give up following so much news on this but if what you are saying is true, the worlds fecked basically ain’t it. People can get reinfected after 3months? Great news that, I thought a vaccine would take years to be available if at all so I honestly don’t know where to go from here, no mass gathering again ever?
 

Revan

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@Revan i give up following so much news on this but if what you are saying is true, the worlds fecked basically ain’t it. People can get reinfected after 3months? Great news that, I thought a vaccine would take years to be available if at all so I honestly don’t know where to go from here, no mass gathering again ever?
It happened to one person in the US within 3 months, it might be longer for others. Add to that, a vaccine might provide better immunity than the disease itself, so if it can push the immunity to a year then we are golden (just get vaccinated every year like many do for the flu). Also, there is a good chance that people are gonna get vaccinated at the beginning of the next year, multiple vaccines are in the final stage of their trials and so far they have been a big success (in experimental trials).

I also expect that the more we know about it, the more ways to fight it we’ll learn. Likely at some stage there would be good antivirals. Plasma treatments would also help for infected people, and so the mortality rate will go down. Eventually, it will be just another cold/flu (colds and flus likely were much more lethal when they jumped from animals to humans).

In any case, yes, the world is gonna change and likely for a few years there won’t be a going back to normal. We can hope for a functioning world, but I wouldn’t be surprised if masks are here to stay indefinitely and who knows where large gatherings will happen again (I don’t think that is gonna happen within next year).
 

Zlatan 7

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It happened to one person in the US within 3 months, it might be longer for others. Add to that, a vaccine might provide better immunity than the disease itself, so if it can push the immunity to a year then we are golden (just get vaccinated every year like many do for the flu). Also, there is a good chance that people are gonna get vaccinated at the beginning of the next year, multiple vaccines are in the final stage of their trials and so far they have been a big success (in experimental trials).

I also expect that the more we know about it, the more ways to fight it we’ll learn. Likely at some stage there would be good antivirals. Plasma treatments would also help for infected people, and so the mortality rate will go down. Eventually, it will be just another cold/flu (colds and flus likely were much more lethal when they jumped from animals to humans).

In any case, yes, the world is gonna change and likely for a few years there won’t be a going back to normal. We can hope for a functioning world, but I wouldn’t be surprised if masks are here to stay indefinitely and who knows where large gatherings will happen again (I don’t think that is gonna happen within next year).
That’s a bit more of an uplifting read than your previous posts I just seen atleast, ha.

still, no crowds for a few years means no concerts, no match days, no holidays to a decent standard. I know that sounds selfish when there’s lives at stake but people need a release after working most Of the hours in a day. It’s all so shit!
 

hmchan

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What are you on about? Of course, there are multiple cases of people being reinfected. There was the case in the US when he got 2 negative tests and got released, to only get infected 3 months later and suffer worse. At the beginning, we thought that might be just mistaken on tests from South Korea, but it is clear that is not the case now that we know more about the virus.

And there is no biomedical knowledge that says that you cannot get reinfected from the same virus. In fact, more often than not you can. Like from flu. Or from the common cold (some of which are caused from coronaviruses, so close to this disease). Or from yellow fever. In fact, even from measles (which generates an extreme immune response) while highly unlikely, you can still get reinfected. From coronaviruses, the question is not if you can get reinfected, but when you can get reinfected. The hope was that it cannot be for 1-3 years (MERS and SARS), but it seems that it can be much shorter than that. Because people can get reinfected with the same disease, they get revaccinated for some (flu for example) or get vaccine boosters later.

Which makes herd immunity the most ridiculous idea since Trump wanted to nuke a hurricane.



That study showed that primates getting the vaccine were generating 3 times as many antibodies than those who got the disease. Additionally, modern vaccines do not mimic the virus, they instead give information on how to fight the virus (though these types of vaccines have not been successful yet, but that is what Moderna and co. are trying). People are not gonna get weakened/dead versions of the virus int heir bodies.
What are you on about? All vaccines including modern ones work on the same rationale to mimic the pathogen or part of it. mRNA vaccines (the one Moderna working on) do not involve inactivated virus, but it delivers the viral mRNA into our cells, which is subsequently translated into the viral spike protein. So basically it is still resembling part of the virus, not the immune system.

Vaccine generating much more antibody than infection is a good thing, but it is of little relevance as we do not rely on these antibodies to protect us. The whole point of vaccination is to expose the immune system to the antigen, so that the memory B cells can produce large amount of antibodies on the "subsequent" exposure to the real virus.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2020/05/moderna-coronavirus-vaccine-how-it-works-cvd/
 

hmchan

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It happened to one person in the US within 3 months, it might be longer for others. Add to that, a vaccine might provide better immunity than the disease itself, so if it can push the immunity to a year then we are golden (just get vaccinated every year like many do for the flu). Also, there is a good chance that people are gonna get vaccinated at the beginning of the next year, multiple vaccines are in the final stage of their trials and so far they have been a big success (in experimental trials).

I also expect that the more we know about it, the more ways to fight it we’ll learn. Likely at some stage there would be good antivirals. Plasma treatments would also help for infected people, and so the mortality rate will go down. Eventually, it will be just another cold/flu (colds and flus likely were much more lethal when they jumped from animals to humans).

In any case, yes, the world is gonna change and likely for a few years there won’t be a going back to normal. We can hope for a functioning world, but I wouldn’t be surprised if masks are here to stay indefinitely and who knows where large gatherings will happen again (I don’t think that is gonna happen within next year).
So you think the reason why people need to be vaccinated for flu every year, is that the amount of antibody drops so they need another dose?
 

Revan

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So you think the reason why people need to be vaccinated for flu every year, is that the amount of antibody drops so they need another dose?
No, it is more related to different strains of it. Viruses evolve (flu virus more than coronaviruses) which means that the body might not recognize the same virus. In other cases, getting reinfected makes things worse (dengue fever for example). Anyway, there is no rule that says that immunization (be it from vaccine or the disease) gives lifetime immunity, in fact, pretty much never you get real lifetime immunity. In many cases, the immunity is strong, but in some it isn't (it is known that people can get reinfected from the same coronavirus that causes common cold). Actually, one of the reasons why there aren't vaccines for any coronavirus is that antibodies vanish quite soon.

Finally, there are documented cases of reinfections. The hope is that on average it will take 1+ years to get reinfected rather than 3 months. Cause if we get a vaccine soon, then there won't be a problem getting revaccinated every October or so. But if it is every 3 months, it will cause some extra problems.
That’s a bit more of an uplifting read than your previous posts I just seen atleast, ha.

still, no crowds for a few years means no concerts, no match days, no holidays to a decent standard. I know that sounds selfish when there’s lives at stake but people need a release after working most Of the hours in a day. It’s all so shit!
I honestly don't know, but yes. It would suck if no big events will be allowed. Already lost 2 conferences this year (free holiday, meeting old friends, great parties), concerts, matches, being stuck at home for the last 5 months, no dating, and I am feeling depressed and totally unmotivated to do anything. I hope that some type of normality returns soon even if it isn't exactly the same as before.
 

Amar__

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@Revan i give up following so much news on this but if what you are saying is true, the worlds fecked basically ain’t it. People can get reinfected after 3months? Great news that, I thought a vaccine would take years to be available if at all so I honestly don’t know where to go from here, no mass gathering again ever?
No one still has any clues about the virus, I wouldn't trust anything without larger research, which we still don't have for some reason.
 

lsd

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As a diabetic it does really annoy me when i see people refusing to wear one because it violates their rights or they have a medical reason not too. Both reasons which are total BS there are no medical reasons not to wear one and it does not violate your rights.

It is just pure selfishness , arrogance and ignorance.

It is one simple thing to do just fecking do it and stop being a Karen
 

Wibble

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This needs to be understood.

I have been 50m underwater with a direct supply of oxygen in my mouth. I STILL had the mental panic of ‘I can’t breathe’.

It’s in peoples heads. People too often mistake ‘New’ or ‘Undesired’ with ‘Bad’ or ‘Wrong’.

Masks do not stop you breathing. Empathy should be given to those who suggest they do. They’re freaking out. It’s ok for them to feel uncontrollable emotions. Folks need to talk to them. Help. Not fcuking criticise. That just radicalises them.
Scuba diving and wearing a disposable mask are hugely different things.

And to be a pedant you couldn't have been breathing pure oxygen at 50m or you would be dead (safe max is 6m for pure oxygen and 10m+ is likely fatal).

I assume you were breathing air and 50m is a ludicrously deep dive for a novice. The risk of nitrogen narcosis is huge. The risk of decompression sickness without significsnt decompression stop planning is also huge as no-stop bottomtime at 50m is zero.
 
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What are you on about? Of course, there are multiple cases of people being reinfected. There was the case in the US when he got 2 negative tests and got released, to only get infected 3 months later and suffer worse. At the beginning, we thought that might be just mistaken on tests from South Korea, but it is clear that is not the case now that we know more about the virus.
Did you have a source for these multiple cases @Revan? The South Korea ones were confirmed as original false positives.
We have your one patient from USA, which are the others you’re referring to?
We have 20 million confirmed cases now, likely the tip of the iceberg. We should have lots of cases of reinfection if it’s not rare for immunity to be so incredibly short.

That SARS and t-cell study showed the 23 SARS patients from 2003 still had T-Cells 17 years later.

We might well be talking about 1 in a million being prone to reinfection within 6 months and yet you’re talking here as though it’s a known risk (“it’s clear now”) for everyone.

For what it’s worth, the experts here still say we simply don’t know enough about immunity with this virus yet to make any conclusions whatsoever, I’m surprised you are in here appearing so certain.
 
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@Revan i give up following so much news on this but if what you are saying is true, the worlds fecked basically ain’t it. People can get reinfected after 3months? Great news that, I thought a vaccine would take years to be available if at all so I honestly don’t know where to go from here, no mass gathering again ever?
If 1 in 20 million can get reinfected in 6 months, I wouldn’t worry too much @Zlatan 7

We get novel occurrences with all viruses and with vaccines also. It’s the reason every single medicine we take has a list of side effects on the leaflet, some rare, some common. People can go blind from the flu for example, but it’s nothing for 99.9 % of people to worry about.

If we start seeing signs that Say 25% are subject to reinfection within 6 months it’d be something to worry about but it appears Revan has gone all in here. Maybe 90% have 1 year, or 5 year, or 10 year immunity, we don’t know.
 
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UnrelatedPsuedo

I pity the poor fool who stinks like I do!
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Scuba diving and wearing a disposable mask are hugely different things.

And to be a pedant you couldn't have been breathing pure oxygen at 50m or you would be dead (safe max is 6m for pure oxygen and 10m+ is likely fatal).

I assume you were breathing air and 50m is a ludicrously deep dive for a novice. The risk of nitrogen narcosis is huge. The risk of decompression sickness without significsnt decompression stop planning is also huge as no-stop bottomtime at 50m is zero.
God I love the internet.

The point isn’t the depth, or what’s in the tank. That much should have been obvious. I didn’t even commit a brain cell to write out the scenario.

My point was : I panicked that I couldn’t breathe despite having a pipe in my mouth that guaranteed it. People do the same with a thinpiece of cloth. Unfamiliarity breeds irrationality.

But thanks Wibble. I’ll be sure to build in decompression stops if I’m ever breathing in ‘Air’ at a depth of 50m.

[fwiw if I’d stopped to write out a factually accurate scenario it was 14-24m with a tank of air on my back at Goat Island in New Zealand. I didn’t write 50m to sound like billy big b0llocks. I just couldn’t be arsed to check what depth is normal for the novice dives that I did, 50m sounded in the right ballpark. I’m PADI certified, not a Navy Seal. Or a Mammalian Seal. Or 90’s chart sensation Seal]
Disclaimer : You’re a good egg, this is humourous, not antagonistic.