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I think it's safe to say that Madrid won't be in for him any time soon.
Is Pogba as good as gone?
- Thread starter Irrational.
- Start date
I think it's safe to say that Madrid won't be in for him any time soon.
Why does he face harsher criticism than others (by tour own admission), if there is no narrative or conspiracy?
Because he was signed for a world record transfer fee. Some of us thinks that matters and requires consistency of top level performance, which Pogba has consistency failed to deliver. Some loyalty towards the club would also help.
that’s my reason anyway.
What is? You've not put anything else forward other than he faces harsher criticism for being Paul Pogba...
Hmm, of course you want all the loyalty in the world while you slag off the player.
And the fee is not of his making, and consistent top level performance is subjective. Like when one player is considered to be performing at a consistently top level than another even though they are both doing the same thing.
This is always confusing to me
Same lot who will slag off your character like they know you personally for everything from making a sm post for charity to getting a haircut and will demand full and unquestioned devotion.
The relationship the fanbase has with many of our own players is quite toxic to the point that you couldn't separate some of the stuff you read from what you'd expect rival fans, who are supposed to hate us, to say
yeah, every conceivable excuse on speed dial from Pogba fans. Do you do brainstorms to come up with new ones?
Oh shullup man.
Gonna be quite a fair bit of hate watching from some next season if we pull of signing Sancho. The potential sight of him and Pogba dancing together on the pitch will pop a few blood vessels on here
Personally, I am happy that Pogba wanted to leave last year, and I am happy that he wants to stay now.
Reason being, fans seem to be confused about what they want from players. They hate money-grabbers etc, and I understand that. For me, Pogba’s wishes have shown that his priority is to win. Not to be paid. For a player of his standing in the game, it would be curious to have no feelings of leaving while finishing 6th and 7th in the league. A World Cup winning, world record player. Players happy to sign contracts under such circumstances raise different questions for me. Arsenal are seeing that with Ozil. No hunger. On what basis did he commit his future to Arsenal? Just because they bribed him to basically. The same for De Gea. We were shite, but he still gladly signed a new deal for extortionate money.
Top players should start getting itchy feet if things are not going well. Yes, you want them to give it a chance, but I think 3 years for Pogba, approaching his prime years, is a reasonable amount of time to assess where this project of ours was going. And as of last summer, it was going nowhere. If he still demanded to leave this summer, despite us showing direction, it would be far more disappointing.
Arsenal were again in a similar position with Aubameyang. Before Arteta starting turning things around, I was telling my Arsenal mates that I was concerned if he signed a new deal. On what basis would a player of his level want to commit to such a team? Surely it highlights that winning and losing is irrelevant to him, and money is the only factor. No CL football, no title challenging. Just a good contract in his prime. At least now, he may sign in the realistic hope of the team going somewhere.
To summarise, we don’t want global superstars happy to sign contract after contract here while we languish in 6th and 7th. It's suspicious to say the least, to me anyway.
Reason being, fans seem to be confused about what they want from players. They hate money-grabbers etc, and I understand that. For me, Pogba’s wishes have shown that his priority is to win. Not to be paid. For a player of his standing in the game, it would be curious to have no feelings of leaving while finishing 6th and 7th in the league. A World Cup winning, world record player. Players happy to sign contracts under such circumstances raise different questions for me. Arsenal are seeing that with Ozil. No hunger. On what basis did he commit his future to Arsenal? Just because they bribed him to basically. The same for De Gea. We were shite, but he still gladly signed a new deal for extortionate money.
Top players should start getting itchy feet if things are not going well. Yes, you want them to give it a chance, but I think 3 years for Pogba, approaching his prime years, is a reasonable amount of time to assess where this project of ours was going. And as of last summer, it was going nowhere. If he still demanded to leave this summer, despite us showing direction, it would be far more disappointing.
Arsenal were again in a similar position with Aubameyang. Before Arteta starting turning things around, I was telling my Arsenal mates that I was concerned if he signed a new deal. On what basis would a player of his level want to commit to such a team? Surely it highlights that winning and losing is irrelevant to him, and money is the only factor. No CL football, no title challenging. Just a good contract in his prime. At least now, he may sign in the realistic hope of the team going somewhere.
To summarise, we don’t want global superstars happy to sign contract after contract here while we languish in 6th and 7th. It's suspicious to say the least, to me anyway.
On one side, Pogba faced harsher criticisms which he do not deserved. The transfer value play a huge role here. Pogba is also an enigma as the persona he showed consistently in front of people and in social media. Many of what he do can easily be misunderstood.
On another, Pogba did a lot of things which deserve criticisms including some of the harsh criticism. Let's not pretend he's an angel. He's aware of how to play the game and it's fine I suppose, it's his career (football career is short) and he's just making the most of it. A common courtesy would be nice though. On pitch and off it, he did things which deserve criticisms.
So it's somewhat balance... perfectly balanced as all things should be.
On another, Pogba did a lot of things which deserve criticisms including some of the harsh criticism. Let's not pretend he's an angel. He's aware of how to play the game and it's fine I suppose, it's his career (football career is short) and he's just making the most of it. A common courtesy would be nice though. On pitch and off it, he did things which deserve criticisms.
So it's somewhat balance... perfectly balanced as all things should be.
You're obviously somebody who would follow Pogba if he left. I wouldn't at all. My loyalty lies with the club alone. You also seem to think that our club exists purely to make Pogba look good. How about Pogba helps make our club look good?
The burden of languishing in 6th or 7th falls much more greatly on world record transfer fee purchases or very high income earners. That's literally why he or Sanchez were signed: to elevate the squad. So when we 'languish', Pogba should take on his proportion of blame.
Sanchez was ostracised, humiliated and eventually off loaded. Pogba hasn't been so bad, but he has never delivered according to expectations. And yet he now seems to be demanding a pay rise just because he can't get an offer from covid19 economy affected clubs.
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Imagine being a United supporter and dismissing the impact of Bruno like that. Bruno Fernandez in my opinion has contributed more to the club, squad and matchday in the last six months then Pogba has done in the last 4 years.
Nope. As soon as Pogba starts performing consistently as part of this team his biggest critics including myself will be jumping around singing his name. Football is just an escape for people and all sins are absolved when you rip it up on the pitch. There are no more excuses for Pogba now, put in the performances and dance away.Gonna be quite a fair bit of hate watching from some next season if we pull of signing Sancho. The potential sight of him and Pogba dancing together on the pitch will pop a few blood vessels on here
I am defending Paul in his thread it would have made more sense to ask if I support Anthony or Rashford seeing as I brought them up.
Try again.
Well you mate need to clean the paint out of the scope of those binoculars you have been using for the past four years because that is utter tripe.
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Forgot that part
Which in effect is exactly why so many don’t rate Pogba; evaluation of his performances seems to stem only from his poor United outings yet if we do as you say, there’s only one way to define Pogba - World bloody Class.
Anyhow, I’m not here to argue the merits of Pogba vs Bruno they’re both class players & play for the club so I’m happy.
Both have consistent displays in league other than England whilst showing they can be damn good players at United also.
Perhaps you should take your own Specsavers referral then. If by ‘follow’ you mean ‘watch him play’ - then sure, he’s the type of player than any football fan would enjoy to watch play, as opposed to rival fans watching to see some hard running tackler play. Beyond that, he can do what he likes. I want players who want to come here to achieve things, not just for money. If Pogba was happy to stay last summer, that would raise some questions as to what he is driven by. Thankfully, to me, he has answered that question in a way that I like - in that he is driven by winning things, which means we are on the same page.
Other than that, you can say what you like, we are the only team he’s player for where he hasn’t won major honours. We haven’t failed to win the league because of Paul Pogba, as you seem to be implying. He’s not been perfect, but he’s a central midfielder. They do not win titles for their teams, they play their part. He’s created chances for others consistently. He hasn’t been great defensively, but what of those who have been put in the team to be great defensively? He’s got about the same goals per game in the league as KDB has in his PL career, despite a season less in actual years, and then almost a whole season out with injury in the time he has been here. For a creative midfielder, he’s largely come here and created and scored chances. Not that he couldn’t have done things better, but to stop the buck of our lack of success with him makes little sense, considering his statistical output.
Clearly just a Pogba fanboy. Some of his points are laughable.
Didn’t Zidane say a month or so ago that there wouldn’t be any signings this summer ? They’re stuck with Bale too as he’s not going to leave unless they pay him his contract in full in revenge for Real stopping his transfer to China last minute by asking for a fee.
Because he has under-performed compared to expectations and his individual talent. Pogba has clearly not played to his full potential and that's why he's judged harshly. He's an experienced 27yo player who still hasn't managed to put it all together yet.
I often think players are in a no win situation at clubs.
As fans we love our clubs and are biased in our views. Views that are often contradictory.
Take for example the view I often see about players who are on high wages at a club but getting no game time. Fans will argue that they would take a pay cut to be able to play week in week out rather than be a mercenary who happily sits on the bench bleeding their club.
Yet someone like Pogba signs for a top club like UTD and then finds he gets to play with jlingz and Periera week in week out. plus a turnover of managers who stifle creativity.
A young player who is cited as potentially world class must surely want to win accolades and trophies? So wanting a move where he potentially can makes sense no?
As fans we love our clubs and are biased in our views. Views that are often contradictory.
Take for example the view I often see about players who are on high wages at a club but getting no game time. Fans will argue that they would take a pay cut to be able to play week in week out rather than be a mercenary who happily sits on the bench bleeding their club.
Yet someone like Pogba signs for a top club like UTD and then finds he gets to play with jlingz and Periera week in week out. plus a turnover of managers who stifle creativity.
A young player who is cited as potentially world class must surely want to win accolades and trophies? So wanting a move where he potentially can makes sense no?
This. There's a massive contradiction to his fan boys because they proclaim his greatness whilst often at the same time saying he shouldn't have to meet elevated expectations.
If you're rated as one of the best around then you have to put in the performances to show it. Any slip ups and he has too many will create an elevated level of criticism even if you're usually a solid 8/10.
I don't even think the level of criticism he faces is that bad. Is it any worse than the criticism Carrick got? Both excellent players but prone to errors and that impacted how they were judged.
Pogba is world class in opposition half but he is anything but world class in his own half where his ball retention and stupidity/I'll discipline often catches us out, see southampton and west ham games as an example.
I'm not certain the midfield can function properly with him and Bruno making up two thirds of it, they are both very attacking players and leave huge gaps as a result that Matic just cant fill.
If we get Sancho then I would be happy to see him leave and have a more rounded midfielder or two come in instead.
I'm not certain the midfield can function properly with him and Bruno making up two thirds of it, they are both very attacking players and leave huge gaps as a result that Matic just cant fill.
If we get Sancho then I would be happy to see him leave and have a more rounded midfielder or two come in instead.
Couldnt agree more with your opening paragraph. It cant be both ways, either he is world class and performs accordingly week in and week out or he isn't.
4 years of excuses is enough.
He has though. This squad looks far better with Bruno's contribution than Pogba FC's. Prove me wrong.
Now with a more balanced side where he is not asked to show the leadership he doesn't possess, or be an all-action midfielder, which sadly he isn't, I look forward to him delivering a full season of good performances.
Well that's good to hear because having your best players performing can only benefit the squad and the fanbase but it often feels like many actively root for certain players to fail so as to say I told you so once they've made their minds up on a player which I don't understand if you want to see the team succeed.
Same with the notion of being a fanboy or branded as Martial/Pogba FC (ironically 2 of our most talented players who are the biggest lightning rods for criticism and that dismissive treatment) instead of a fan of the club if you don't hop on the bandwagon of wanting to tear down our own players at every turn.
Weird that when the fortunes and form of our players directly affects the team as a whole, you'd think we'd want them to cheer them on instead of doing the job of our rival fans for them but it is what it is I suppose...
Just don't want us to become like Madridistas who might be the most toxic fanbase in the world with the way they treat their players and legends
This is nonsense by the way.
I’ve come over all Benitez.
Someone needs a lesson in ‘fahcts’.
What a hurrendous hill to create & subsequently die on
He has 2 years of contract left. They can wait and snatch him for free or for cut price next year. Madrid and Barca don't mind doing it dirty. Fir example, telling player; "Don't sign new contract and we will sign you next year".
They would have deal with Sancho already done if they were us
It's a game of opinions and you call it as you see it. Supporters of this club have put up with enough shite with some of these players over the last few years. We are certainly on the right path but it remains to be seen if Paul Pogba will be part of that progression. There is absolutely nothing wrong with seeing it that way. I'm of the opinion that we would do better with someone else in the long run. But like I said, we are all knuckle draggers when it comes to watching our teams for 90 minutes. If Pogba or anyone else in this squad applies themselves and gives us solid, mature and consistant performances then we don't have a problem.
I think Pogba will sign a new contract and we, as fans, should rightfully be thrilled that we are locking down a world class academy graduate long-term.
If we make other adept signings, particularly cover/replacement for Matic and cover for Fernandes, and perhaps RW, we will have a pretty formidable attack.
If we make other adept signings, particularly cover/replacement for Matic and cover for Fernandes, and perhaps RW, we will have a pretty formidable attack.
Problem with Pogba is the expectation rarely meets the actuality. World Cup winner (along with 12/13 other players), pings the occasional super pass but opposition players know that if they press him, he will make mistakes and give the ball away. He’s allowed to make mistakes but he makes too many for the talent he has. He now has better players to help him and to pass to going forward. I think his attitude has changed just like Rooney changed his attitude all those years ago after his transfer request malarkey. Still a big social media following and makes money for the club so Ed will keep him.
With the wages Pogba is on, and the financial constraints they have, I doubt they would even afford the signing on fee let alone everything else involved in a free transfer.
This squad has done very well with Pogba before and after his injury, mostly. I wont argue or downplay Bruno's contribution even if it's fashionable to do so all of a sudden, but if you disregard Pogba's injury and off the field bullshit with his agent attacking the manager he has actually been doing well under Ole so far. Realistically Ole has given Pogba the platform to put in the best performances at this club since his arrival, it's just unfortunate that it hasn't gathered momentum for a full season to prove his consistency, but I'd say it's certainly signs that it might come this season.
There was no more excuses before this season, but he has been unlucky with injuries and if he doesn't leave this window, this season was a write off for him. If we don't end up selling him he'll hopefully improve his injury record and work hard to prove his consistency by making the coming season his best yet.
If he stays, I have to congratulate Ole for his mature work in a really tough situation to manage. Player coming back from having your agent publicly go after the manager is almost unheard of, but it has been downplayed and controlled calmly by the club instead of feeding into the drama created and make a shit show and take focus away from the team, we probably would have done so before.
My God what a tiring thread - come on here to see if there is any news of note on his staying and instead find a bunch of back-and-forth posts tossing around words like Pogba F.C.
I like the looks of that.
That's what I want to see!
I think if anything we have to respect Ole man management, it's second to none given how he dealt with Pogba. He is clearly happy and impressed with the team, and it could lead to him signing a contract to be the leader of that team of talent, and with Sancho joining, and Bruno helping him offensively, that's extraordinary. Securing the CL has helped that, winning the EL will cement the team a bit more in the right direction, and seeing Greenwood blossom has definitely played a role in respecting Ole even more.