Are you young? Rooney flew past players until he got older & he was never a winger either. What a stupid comparison.
Rashford's lack of willingness to dribble is causing us problems and Shaw's absence is exposing it
- Thread starter MichaelRed
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Only Martial dribbles. Rashford is there to hold his position, stretch the pitch to create room for our midfielders to get forward. You dont see Mane going on Mazy runs or Silva leaving defenders for dead.
I keep seeing player criticisms on here, and on Sky, as if coaching, tactics and player instructions doesnt exist.
I keep seeing player criticisms on here, and on Sky, as if coaching, tactics and player instructions doesnt exist.
Rooney was a phenom, lets not get carried away comparing Rashford's technical ability on the ball to Rooney.
Plus, he regularly glided past players on the whim.
Good point in the OP. It's been obvious for a long time Rashford is at his best with space to run into but the Shaw think I hadnt thought of.
Rashford's injury hasnt helped him but let's not pretend this wasnt an issue before when teams sit back against us. He is not a great dribbler and I dont see that changing at his age. We need to work harder on keeping the pitch wide for spaces to open up for all our forwards and the full back is as important as any of the forward 3 for that, I dont think it's necessary for them to be bombing forward all the time though. Just being on the touchline should be enough.
Rashford's injury hasnt helped him but let's not pretend this wasnt an issue before when teams sit back against us. He is not a great dribbler and I dont see that changing at his age. We need to work harder on keeping the pitch wide for spaces to open up for all our forwards and the full back is as important as any of the forward 3 for that, I dont think it's necessary for them to be bombing forward all the time though. Just being on the touchline should be enough.
Absolutely not. Martial is our best left wing and best striker. Rashford has absolutely non-existent hold-up play which just rules him out as a lone striker. Rashford up top would probably be fine if we were running something like a 442.
Ole is the kind of manager that doesn't improve players.
I think he’s good at beating a man from a standing start or moving slowly from the corner flag area, he’s got quick feet and decent skill. He’s not so good at mazy runs beating a defender from the half way line if he has to run quicker with the ball
Does anybody think we need to buy a back up left back to make sure Williams doesn't have to play there? Rashford clearly needs an overlapping fullback to create space.
Sorry. What? See martial.
Ironically posted in a thread where my OP is comparing Martial and Rashford.
100%. I think if we can get a reasonably priced LB then it is essential for us throughout a season. Shaw is great but he clearly is injury prone and we can't afford to have Rashford go completely missing for 10-15 games a season if Shaw is out with injuries. Brandon is a fine fullback but would definitely be better as cover for AWB, although that would limit his time on the pitch as AWB looks to be a machine - still, that's not our problem, we shouldn't scupper ourselves at LB for the sake of giving him minutes when it's unnatural for him in the attacking phases.
No. At their best they are fairly evenly matched on the left, but Martial is significantly better than Rashford as a striker. So that's how we should be continuing to develop them going forward.
He should be much higher and closer to the penalty area, but instead without Shaw he's asked to do half of the fullback job when he's basically useless anywhere near the midfield. Also, it doesn't help the team's default shape isn't based on a high line which also messes with his position even when Shaw is there.
Ole out whatever the case?
Rashford has improved this season, Martial has improved this season, Luke Shaw, Fred, Greenwood.
Which player has regressed like under every other manager since SAF?
Rashford is normally a decent dribbler without being amazing. Or perhaps I should say that while his actual pure dribbling ability is below what we'd want in a perfect world, he makes up for it with a combination of trickery to gain an advantageous position and then acceleration and pure speed to maintain (or extend) that position.
Something obviously hasn't been right since his return though. Whether it's him not being physically or mentally over the injury or just a lack of confidence, he really hasn't been willing to take players on and when he does he has almost always failed.
Something obviously hasn't been right since his return though. Whether it's him not being physically or mentally over the injury or just a lack of confidence, he really hasn't been willing to take players on and when he does he has almost always failed.
We'll start the season with Greenwood on the bench, that's pretty much a certainty. However if their respective forms continue like they have been since the restart then it probably won't take too long before Rashford ends up being on the bench quite a lot until he picks back up again. In saying that, Greenwood hasn't actually been that good the last few games either.
I also think this is true. He was as explosive as any player before the injury. He still has lots to improve upon, even before the injury, though. But I have no doubts that he will.
Yes. He'll be back to his best, and then some with proper coaching. He's improved a lot under Ole and his crew, and I see no reason for his development to stop really. Sort the back issues out, and on he goes.
No. Martial really, really deserves that 9 spot now. He's been borderline unplayable lately.
Agreed. His stats show just that. And he's still young, plenty of time to develop further.
Wum, surely? If not, go argue in the "Sack Ole"-thread instead.This is where Grealish comes in down the left. He can draw players in and beat them. Gives us different option down that left. Rashford needs space to run in to beat a player most of the time.
He slows the game down too much for my liking. It allows the defense to get set. He would dwell on the ball, sizing his defender up before making his move. It feels a bit arrogant the way he plays.
I'd like him to be more direct and start running at players as soon as he turns and faces them. He's not as good as Martial in tight spaces so overlapping runs from full backs is kind of important for him to create that little space between him and the defender. Shaw was doing this well before he got injured and they were developing a good understanding as Rashford found him running behind on many occasions. Williams more often than not goes out wide but doesn't make runs in behind.
Rashford has got the technical skills... still needs to work on decision making.
Martial has overtaken him as a player at the moment.
I'd like him to be more direct and start running at players as soon as he turns and faces them. He's not as good as Martial in tight spaces so overlapping runs from full backs is kind of important for him to create that little space between him and the defender. Shaw was doing this well before he got injured and they were developing a good understanding as Rashford found him running behind on many occasions. Williams more often than not goes out wide but doesn't make runs in behind.
Rashford has got the technical skills... still needs to work on decision making.
Martial has overtaken him as a player at the moment.
He also hasn't been pressing as much. I definitely think he's been instructed to play less intense and direct, most likely due to the injury and it's made him second guess his play on the ball.
Give him time, we saw vs. Crystal Palace and in the first half of the season that he has great qualities and can put together world class performances.
Give him time, we saw vs. Crystal Palace and in the first half of the season that he has great qualities and can put together world class performances.
So you’re not happy with his performance vs the top 6, yet he’s scored more than anyone else in the league against them. To back up this point, you’ve used his first game back after fracturing his back. Well done.
Secondly, please find some stats to back up your argument, successful takes ons or something like that. I don’t think his close control is as good as Martial’s, who is probably one of the best in the world at that kind of dribbling, so that’s a hell of a barometer you’re using.
Plenty of people want Dan James in the squad because he’s young and can improve his technique etc. Rashford is 10 days older. Is it not also possible that Rashford can learn and get to Martial’s level by the time he is Martial’s age (24).
Also, people are critiquing his passing. This has vastly improved since the restart. He’s playing far more accurate through balls. If you can’t see that improvement in his game, I don’t know what you are watching.
Secondly, please find some stats to back up your argument, successful takes ons or something like that. I don’t think his close control is as good as Martial’s, who is probably one of the best in the world at that kind of dribbling, so that’s a hell of a barometer you’re using.
Plenty of people want Dan James in the squad because he’s young and can improve his technique etc. Rashford is 10 days older. Is it not also possible that Rashford can learn and get to Martial’s level by the time he is Martial’s age (24).
Also, people are critiquing his passing. This has vastly improved since the restart. He’s playing far more accurate through balls. If you can’t see that improvement in his game, I don’t know what you are watching.
Was it that bad tonight? He was hacked down a couple of times when he done his player, and I remember he sat two players down in quick succession before creating an opportunity.
I think plenty more people want him nowhere near the first team because he lacks basic football abilities.
Nope.
I thought he dribbled quite a bit yesterday especially in the second half, it just didn’t come off for him and he’s very right footed so the defenders knew exactly what he was going to do cut in on his right so was easy to defend.
A fully fit Rashford firing on all cylinders without an injury we wouldn’t be having these silly threads, he wasn’t great last night but he wasn’t as bad as some are making out 0/10 an the like..
A fully fit Rashford firing on all cylinders without an injury we wouldn’t be having these silly threads, he wasn’t great last night but he wasn’t as bad as some are making out 0/10 an the like..
We need more width and attacking prowess from the LB. It is acknowledged that yesterday's game was a poor performance from Rashford, but for Williams it was just a new medium. Therein lies our problem. We have some players who do not try and hence do not fail so they seem to be giving a 6 or 7/10 type of performance. Since the restart, I would categorize McTominay and Fred in this category too.
There’s definitely fitness and confidence issues but I also think he’s another player restricted a bit by the formation (Pogba being the main one). You play Rashford for his goals, I feel like his starting position is further away from the goal thank he should be.
Martial says hello
Fred says hi
Lack of form, nowt else....
@MichaelRed interesting observations. I think it might be a tactical move and not just something that Rashford is choosing to do. When Williams is on the left side, he plays as an inverted wing back and makes underlapping runs, which leaves some space for Rashford outside to try and play attacking passes. Rashford's consistently spending less time on the line of the opponent's defence, and the manager would surely have addressed it if not intended. I'm not sure why we aren't playing with more of a 4-3-3 shape with our preferred key players, but for whatever reason Ole wants this 4-2-3-1.
This forum has a weird undercurrent of people who seemingly take no small amount of satisfaction in having any excuse to try and bring Rashford down to size. He's one of the best young inside forwards in the world, came through our academy, and wants to use his privilege for good. I don't get it.
This forum has a weird undercurrent of people who seemingly take no small amount of satisfaction in having any excuse to try and bring Rashford down to size. He's one of the best young inside forwards in the world, came through our academy, and wants to use his privilege for good. I don't get it.
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Just a lazy attempt to discredit your thread/opinion because you’ve dared to make a thread not kissing the ass of one of the cafs golden boys. Happens a lot on here.
Mentally maybe. Physically he should be completely recovered, it’s been 8 months.
who knows how long it can take to mentally recover from an injury. It took Luke Shaw 3 years to get over his leg break.
Where'd you get this nonsense from? My OP literally says he's a big game player that has thrived vs the top teams. He has only struggled vs Spurs under Mourinho because of the way Mourinho gets his teams to play very deep which isn't like most top teams. Your comment on why he can't improve his game is also a bit irrelevant if you're trying to argue with my post because the OP also says I want him to improve on his dribbling, something I wouldn't say if I didn't believe he could. I've even given him another excuse with the fullback issue so it's not like I want to attack Rashford, more that I'm curious about what people would do in the immediate future given our current situation is one without Shaw and in a world where Rashford isn't going to improve his close control tenfold overnight.
He definitely isn't playing as well as he was before the injury. I think the tactical changes in our football have meant that he has had to change the way he plays, most of the season he was played as a striker, albeit off the left, this is definitely his best position as it allows him to attack the space in behind. At the moment he is dropping a lot into midfield when Williams bombs on, as Williams has gone, Rashford isn't really allowed to lose the ball in midfield as we are exposed so he keeps it safe which is what we are seeing a lot of lately. On the other hand, we get to see him play some brilliant long range passes in behind every game. On top of that, there is a lack of form and confidence, the momentum that he accumulated earlier in the season has gone.
He has still scored 22 goals this season and been one of our players of the year, let's not right him off just yet.
He has still scored 22 goals this season and been one of our players of the year, let's not right him off just yet.
I think Rashford's the better inside left too. Martial is quite one dimensional out there. It's a great dimension on his day, but he gets stuck in a rut of only wanting to cut inside the full back and shooting. Rashford has a little bit more to his game.
Which position on the pitch is the whim?
This kind of thread pops up all the time.
Martial was criticised, Pogba... pretty much every player has got stick on here. It amuses me. Recall the ‘ Fred is a pointless player,’ comments.Now it appears he’s ‘vital.’
Martial was criticised, Pogba... pretty much every player has got stick on here. It amuses me. Recall the ‘ Fred is a pointless player,’ comments.
Now it appears he’s ‘vital.’I guess partly due to Ole ordered him to play it safe after Bruno's arrival.
This is one of my biggest concerns. Even if I do chalk it up to injury, psychological damage can last an untold amount of time. Even though I do believe that he's not as good at take-ons as a player like Martial one of my biggest issues lately is that he's not attempting and failing, rather just not attempting at all. All game yesterday he would receive the ball and build up speed running at the defender & I'd start shouting "Go on Marcus!!!" and then suddenly he'd arrive at the defender, stop the ball and pass it backwards.
A quick check of the stats show he completes more dribbles on average than anybody else in the team including Martial (who he gets dispossessed less than)
So I suspect it is much more about the injury and no fullback creating space.
He also seems to be putting more emphasis on interplay so maybe he feels he is forced to dribble less than before.
So I suspect it is much more about the injury and no fullback creating space.
He also seems to be putting more emphasis on interplay so maybe he feels he is forced to dribble less than before.
I don't think the tone I'm trying to get across is reaching you in that case because I'm not a Marcus detractor. I absolutely want to see him thrive but I don't think playing with an inverted fullback whilst Marcus doesn't have the confidence and/or ability to take on his defender is helping his game. As I stated in the OP I hope he can work on his dribbling next season & I'm sure he will but I'd also like to see a left footed LB brought in as cover because Shaw does pick up consistent injuries and it hampers Rashford whenever he does. In my opinion for the immediate future we should put Rashford on the right so AWB can overlap for him whilst Greenwood relies less on overlaps & seems to be more of a 'something out of nothing' kind of player that could manage on the left - a position Greenwood has regularly played through the youth teams.This kind of thread pops up all the time.
Martial was criticised, Pogba... pretty much every player has got stick on here. It amuses me. Recall the ‘ Fred is a pointless player,’ comments.
Completing a dribble stat is when you literally just dribble forward with the ball for at least a few steps. You would expect your winger that has played the most games, as Rashford has, to be #1 in that stat. Losing the ball less is also expected when your winger is passing infield & backwards so often as oppose to your striker who is taking more risks. Take-ons are more important than completed dribbles here.