Gaming Microsoft buys Zenimax | 9th March: Bethesda games officially joins Microsoft. Unlucky Afro.

afrocentricity · Sep 22, 2020

Yea I dunno, I'm not convinced. Why not say it? They know already, they have pre-orders coming up. Just say abc will be multiplatform, xyz will be exclusive. Done.

I'll wait for them to confirm they are making all their big games multiplatform before I start panicking and clutching pearls (I probably won't I'll just get them on gamepass eventually).

I think the standard console wars mindset is clouding minds, y'all still think MS is playing checkers but they are playing chess. (MS, not XBox)

Turnip · Sep 22, 2020

mancan92 said:
Its all about gamepass my friend. They want to be the Netflix of gaming that's why there is now xcloud aswell.

Don't want to buy an xbox that's OK because your pc can use game pass and xcloud means you only need an OK running pc to play games on it. They don't need you to buy an xbox they just need that 15 pounds a month.

You guys also have to remember Microsoft has a ridiculous warchest so they don't care about losing a few million in game sales they are looking at the long game.

I see, that kinda makes this suck even more, not everyone can afford or wants to spend that much money on games every month, it's only worth it if you play a lot, which I guess is who they're aiming at, but pushing casuals out seems daft. Going to be an interesting ride, but sure feels like it's just going to suck for customers overall.

esmufc07 · Sep 22, 2020

In terms of gamepass what new releases get added to it straight away? Just MS studio games?

fellwin · Sep 22, 2020

Gamepass has over 15 million users. With a price of 10 USD then its 150 million USD a month even before the Zenimax acquisition.

When factoring in that the gaming industry is a 200billion industry in 2021 then it seems like a no-brainer to make your gamepass offering almost mandatory, when you have 137billion in cash as MS does.

VeevaVee · Sep 22, 2020

esmufc07 said:
In terms of gamepass what new releases get added to it straight away? Just MS studio games?

At the moment, not much. Outer Worlds was straight on there though, which was a let down of a game but a semi-big release, and was nice because my mates on PS4 had to pay £60 for it.

I assume this is going to change though and we'll see more straight on there.

Bojan11 · Sep 22, 2020

VeevaVee said:
At the moment, not much. Outer Worlds was straight on there though, which was a let down of a game but a semi-big release, and was nice because my mates on PS4 had to pay £60 for it.

I assume this is going to change though and we'll see more straight on there.

Wastelands came out last month and reviewed well. I haven’t got around to playing it. But it costs full price on PS.

VeevaVee · Sep 22, 2020

Bojan11 said:
Wastelands came out last month and reviewed well. I haven’t got around to playing it. But it costs full price on PS.

Not seen that. Will check it out

mancan92 · Sep 22, 2020

Turnip said:
I see, that kinda makes this suck even more, not everyone can afford or wants to spend that much money on games every month, it's only worth it if you play a lot, which I guess is who they're aiming at, but pushing casuals out seems daft. Going to be an interesting ride, but sure feels like it's just going to suck for customers overall.

How? Games pass has ea play aswell so the likes of fifa and madden etc on there which are super casual. It just means more games open to a wide audience. Or parents go get the 20 pound a month xbox and their kids have unlimited games for 2 years that's a great deal no for anyone.

mancan92 · Sep 22, 2020

afrocentricity said:
Yea I dunno, I'm not convinced. Why not say it? They know already, they have pre-orders coming up. Just say abc will be multiplatform, xyz will be exclusive. Done.

I'll wait for them to confirm they are making all their big games multiplatform before I start panicking and clutching pearls (I probably won't I'll just get them on gamepass eventually).

I think the standard console wars mindset is clouding minds, y'all still think MS is playing checkers but they are playing chess. (MS, not XBox)

Hard to do that when the deal itself won't be completed until q2 next year. There will be an evaluation of all the games and I'm sure that information will come out over time. That's not day one information they have like 10 studios to actually go through let alone actual games.

afrocentricity · Sep 22, 2020

mancan92 said:
Hard to do that when the deal itself won't be completed until q2 next year. There will be an evaluation of all the games and I'm sure that information will come out over time. That's not day one information they have like 10 studios to actually go through let alone actual games.

This deal has been worked on for months. I don't believe they are hashing all this out without an idea on what games they want to be exclusive or not.... If they have decided to make all their big games exclusive like some in here think, then the sooner they state it, the better.... As it stands, people are just guessing.

mancan92 · Sep 22, 2020

afrocentricity said:
This deal has been worked on for months. I don't believe they are hashing all this out without an idea on what games they want to be exclusive or not.... If they have decided to make all their big games exclusive like some in here think, then the sooner they state it, the better.... As it stands, people are just guessing.

They know the games but it's not exactly something they will or can announce. It will be done over the coming years as they see where each studio and game is at exactly. As I said the deal itself won't even be completed for another 8 months or so. Why would they announce everything now? They can milk this announcement for the next couple of years and build hype for every new Bethesda release.

afrocentricity · Sep 22, 2020

mancan92 said:
They know the games but it's not exactly something they will or can announce. It will be done over the coming years as they see where each studio and game is at exactly. As I said the deal itself won't even be completed for another 8 months or so. Why would they announce everything now? They can milk this announcement for the next couple of years and build hype for every new Bethesda release.

There are people claiming this and that will be exclusive and XBox will now sell X amount...

1) Years down the line will be too late to have a large effect on XBox sales.

2) If they wanted it to help move the needle they don't even need to announce it, just allude to it. It reads like a wishy washy non statement designed to actually avoid giving the impression that all their games will become permanently exclusive.

This is potentially good news, I get console wars dictates there has to be a winner and a loser, but I don't see it that way, not yet anyway...

Bojan11 · Sep 22, 2020

afrocentricity said:
There are people claiming this and that will be exclusive and XBox will now sell X amount...

1) Years down the line will be too late to have a large effect on XBox sales.

2) If they wanted it to help move the needle they don't even need to announce it, just allude to it. It reads like a wishy washy non statement designed to actually avoid giving the impression that all their games will become exclusive.

Like I said they not spending 7.2 billion just to put them on PS. They could have done what Sony did with FF. Give them money and make the games timed exclusive. Or even give them what they would make from potential sales and put them on gamepass day one. It’s certainly easier and far cheaper than buying them out.

MS have been searching for a big publisher to buy for a while. This was better than buying Warner bros as you don’t have to deal with rights and other licensing issues. The criticism of Xbox and gamepass is MS have no games. This is going to help rectify that and you think they just going to release them on PS.

By the time next elder scrolls is out, gamepass will be available on a lot more devices and even browsers. Just not on PS.

I know it’s a tough pill for Sony fans to swallow. But you been moaning for ages Xbox has no games.

mancan92 · Sep 22, 2020

afrocentricity said:
There are people claiming this and that will be exclusive and XBox will now sell X amount...

1) Years down the line will be too late to have a large effect on XBox sales.

2) If they wanted it to help move the needle they don't even need to announce it, just allude to it. It reads like a wishy washy non statement designed to actually avoid giving the impression that all their games will become permanently exclusive.

This is potentially good news, I get console wars dictates there has to be a winner and a loser, but I don't see it that way, not yet anyway...

He literally says all games won't be exclusive. what is your point? There are games which already have time exclusive contracts with sony so they have to honour them but for sure the big ones will be game pass exclusive. Also most users only buy the consoles 2 - 3 years down the line 90% of users arent there day one

afrocentricity · Sep 22, 2020

mancan92 said:
He literally says all games won't be exclusive. what is your point? Also most users only buy the consoles 2 - 3 years down the line 90% of users arent there day one

Exactly, I'm not arguing with you. I'm arguing with @Bojan11 etc...

“The key point is we’re still Bethesda,” Hines writes. “We’re still working on the same games we were yesterday, made by the same studios we’ve worked with for years, and those games will be published by us.”

"Like our original partnership, this one is about more than one system or one screen. We share a deep belief in the fundamental power of games, in their ability to connect, empower, and bring joy. And a belief we should bring that to everyone - regardless of who you are, where you live, or what you play on. Regardless of the screen size, the controller, or your ability to even use one."

Quotes from Pete Hines at Bethesda. Me being a naturally optimistic person, I've chosen to wait and see how this unfolds, and I'll point to Minecraft again.

For those that want to war and claim they know for a fact this means exclusives and a L for Sony, knock yourselves out....

Bojan11 · Sep 22, 2020

afrocentricity said:
Exactly, I'm not arguing with you. I'm arguing with @Bojan11 etc...

“The key point is we’re still Bethesda,” Hines writes. “We’re still working on the same games we were yesterday, made by the same studios we’ve worked with for years, and those games will be published by us.”

"Like our original partnership, this one is about more than one system or one screen. We share a deep belief in the fundamental power of games, in their ability to connect, empower, and bring joy. And a belief we should bring that to everyone - regardless of who you are, where you live, or what you play on. Regardless of the screen size, the controller, or your ability to even use one."

Quotes from Pete Hines at Bethesda. Me being a naturally optimistic person, I've chosen to wait and see how this unfolds, and I'll point to Minecraft again.

For those that want to war and claim they know for a fact this means exclusives and a L for Sony, knock yourselves out....

And I will point to Obsidian or the 8 other studios MS bought. How many of their future games are coming on PS?

Also Spencer himself said it’s case by case basis. So not sure what you going on about.

afrocentricity · Sep 22, 2020

Bojan11 said:
And I will point to Obsidian or the 8 other studios MS bought. How many of their future games are coming on PS?

Also Spencer himself said it’s case by case basis. So not sure what you going on about.

More like what are you going on about? My point is clear...

Bethesda will be publishing their own games. They aren't owned in the same way that Obsidian or the other 8 studios as you put it, are owned. Potentially, MS won't try to limit them or direct their output, they'll just guide, support and rake in the money. It doesn't have to be zero sum...

If it turns out that you are right and they start to restrict them or make them exclusive (which is specifically what you have been posting) and limit their profits then so be it.... I'll play the games on PC.

The narrative in the versus thread was that exclusiveness doesn't matter and MS didn't care what you play their stuff on. Y'all changed your tune quick fast!

mancan92 · Sep 22, 2020

afrocentricity said:
More like what are you going on about? My point is clear...

Bethesda will be publishing their own games. They aren't owned in the same way that Obsidian or the other 8 studios as you put it, are owned. Potentially, MS won't try to limit them or direct their output, they'll just guide, support and rake in the money. It doesn't have to be zero sum...

If it turns out that you are right and they start to restrict them or make them exclusive and limit their profits then so be it.... I'll play the games on PC.

The narrative in the versus thread was that exclusiveness doesn't matter and MS didn't care what you play their stuff on. Y'all changed your tune quick fast!

Thats all Microsoft want to hear. They don't care about losing a few mill in sales at all. They just want to make sure you get a game pass so that in 5 years there are 100milion gamepass subscriptions. They don't care if you have a playstation as long as you have the gamepass.

Bosws87 · Sep 22, 2020

afrocentricity said:
More like what are you going on about? My point is clear...

Bethesda will be publishing their own games. They aren't owned in the same way that Obsidian or the other 8 studios as you put it, are owned. Potentially, MS won't try to limit them or direct their output, they'll just guide, support and rake in the money. It doesn't have to be zero sum...

If it turns out that you are right and they start to restrict them or make them exclusive (which is specifically what you have been posting) and limit their profits then so be it.... I'll play the games on PC.

The narrative in the versus thread was that exclusiveness doesn't matter and MS didn't care what you play their stuff on. Y'all changed your tune quick fast!

It's clear from my point of view they will continue to be multiplatform, its just being used as tool in a pointless war.

Bojan11 · Sep 22, 2020

afrocentricity said:
More like what are you going on about? My point is clear...

Bethesda will be publishing their own games. They aren't owned in the same way that Obsidian or the other 8 studios as you put it, are owned. Potentially, MS won't try to limit them or direct their output, they'll just guide, support and rake in the money. It doesn't have to be zero sum...

If it turns out that you are right and they start to restrict them or make them exclusive and limit their profits then so be it.... I'll play the games on PC.

The narrative in the versus thread was that exclusiveness doesn't matter and MS didn't care what you play their stuff on. Y'all changed your tune quick fast!

Last time I checked, MS own Obsidian and Bethesda. Just because Minecraft which was already out is being updated for PS does not mean anything. Would be a cnutish move releasing a game and not updating it. Phil Spencer has already stated games will be out case by case on other consoles. So he may throw you a bone like they do with the Switch and Ori once in a while.

This is a move to boost gamepass not Xbox. Exclusive games to gamepass will make it be a must have sub.

Yeah and MS doesn’t care where you play gamepass on. So who has changed their tune? If Sony allowed them to they would bring it on PS in a matter of minutes.

Cheer up. MS finally have games.

mancan92 · Sep 22, 2020

Bosws87 said:
It's clear from my point of view they will continue to be multiplatform, its just being used as tool in a pointless war.

Multi platform being PC and Xbox

afrocentricity · Sep 22, 2020

mancan92 said:
Thats all Microsoft want to hear. They don't care about losing a few mill in sales at all. They just want to make sure you get a game pass so that in 5 years there are 100milion gamepass subscriptions. They don't care if you have a playstation as long as you have the gamepass.

I get that and I personally don't mind, but I don't want them to feck up Bethesda either... Their track record ain't great, let's be honest. Like I said in my first post, don't feck this up just support them, let them do their thing, and watch them print money.

One thing I will say is I'm not convinced MS will leave PS/Nintendo sales and DLC money on the table, it is not a few mill... I think @Bojan11 and the like are misguided. Whom I explained the difference between Bethesda -who run multiple studios, cost 7 odd billion, and will continue to publish their own games- and Obsidian to, only for it to be ignored in lieu of more chest beating. Timed exclusivity would suffice....

Time will tell anyway.

Bosws87 said:
It's clear from my point of view they will continue to be multiplatform, its just being used as tool in a pointless war.

Yep. Hope we're right, everyone wins...

esmufc07 · Sep 22, 2020

I’d be surprised if the big hitters like TES and Fallout weren’t exclusive, those games shift consoles. The rest, timed exclusivity perhaps.

Bojan11 · Sep 22, 2020

mancan92 said:
Thats all Microsoft want to hear. They don't care about losing a few mill in sales at all. They just want to make sure you get a game pass so that in 5 years there are 100milion gamepass subscriptions. They don't care if you have a playstation as long as you have the gamepass.

Gamepass subs increased from 10 to 15 in just a few months. By 2022, I expect the number to be doubled when MS first party start releasing games.

afrocentricity said:
I get that and I personally don't mind, but I don't want them to feck up Bethesda either... Their track record ain't great, let's be honest. Like I said I'm my first post, don't feck this up just support them, let them do their thing, and watch them print money.

One thing I will say is I'm not convinced MS will leave PS/Nintendo sales and DLC money on the table... I think @Bojan11 and the like are misguided. (whom I explained the difference between Bethesda -who run multiple studios, cost 7 odd billion, and will continue to publish their own games- and Obsidian to only for it to be ignored in lieu of more chest beating). Timed exclusivity would suffice....

Time will tell anyway.

Yep. Hope we're right, everyone wins...

Sigh. If they wanted timed exclusivity they would have paid for it just like Sony have with FF. It would have cost them minus 7 billion.

Bojan11 · Sep 22, 2020

Got lost in the shuffle yesterday

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afrocentricity · Sep 22, 2020

Bojan11 said:
Sigh. If they wanted timed exclusivity they would have paid for it just like Sony have with FF. It would have cost them minus 7 billion.

Meh...

Time will tell. I get why you want it to be the case as you've been taking Ls consistently for months in the versus thread with @esmufc07 dunking on you for fun.

I mean are we talking about the same Bethesda that released 9 versions of Skyrim on multiple different platforms? MS gone do what MS gone do but I'ma wait and see...

esmufc07 said:
I’d be surprised if the big hitters like TES and Fallout weren’t exclusive, those games shift consoles. The rest, timed exclusivity perhaps.

Yeah maybe, I'm still optimistic for now though. ~£50 on PS versus ~£30 on PC (or as part of gamepass) ... Its not the end of the world is it? :lol:

Bojan11 · Sep 22, 2020

afrocentricity said:
Meh...

Time will tell. I get why you want it to be the case as you've been taking Ls consistently for months in the versus thread with @esmufc07 dunking on you for fun.

I mean are we talking about the same Bethesda that released 9 versions of Skyrim on multiple different platforms? MS gone do what MS gone do but I'ma wait and see...

Triggered.

Yes that same Bethesda, who are now owned by Microsoft.

Alock1 · Sep 22, 2020

@afrocentricity I guess it all comes down to how many PS5 players who would typically buy the game they think they could convert to gamepass if TES, Fallout, Doom, Dishonoured etc. weren't on the console. Whether via PC, Xbox or browser/tv/mobile streaming.

An Elder Scrolls game could sell what on PS5, 15m? If 1 million took up GPU and stuck with it, that's £132m recurring annual revenues on current prices. Let's say the 10m sales on PS5 averaged cost of £50 each / £500m total, what % of that do Xbox as devs/publishers get? I guess 70% max at £350m with no long tail from that customer.

Appreciate this is fag packet maths and finger in the air stuff. I'd love to see what Xbox's projections are and what market penetration they expect to get with gamepass.

esmufc07 · Sep 22, 2020

Alock1 said:
@afrocentricity I guess it all comes down to how many PS5 players who would typically buy the game they think they could convert to gamepass if TES, Fallout, Doom, Dishonoured etc. weren't on the console. Whether via PC, Xbox or browser/tv/mobile streaming.

An Elder Scrolls game could sell what on PS5, 15m? If 1 million took up GPU and stuck with it, that's £132m recurring annual revenues on current prices. Let's say the 10m sales on PS5 averaged cost of £50 each / £500m total, what % of that do Xbox as devs/publishers get? I guess 70% max at £350m with no long tail from that customer.

Appreciate this is fag packet maths and finger in the air stuff. I'd love to see what Xbox's projections are and what market penetration they expect to get with gamepass.

But if people just want to play TES then they're not going to keep their subscription are they? Some might once they've started and they like the looks of other games, others will just pay for the month or two they need to play the game then cancel.

Bojan11 · Sep 22, 2020

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afrocentricity · Sep 22, 2020

Alock1 said:
@afrocentricity I guess it all comes down to how many PS5 players who would typically buy the game they think they could convert to gamepass if TES, Fallout, Doom, Dishonoured etc. weren't on the console. Whether via PC, Xbox or browser/tv/mobile streaming.

An Elder Scrolls game could sell what on PS5, 15m? If 1 million took up GPU and stuck with it, that's £132m recurring annual revenues on current prices. Let's say the 10m sales on PS5 averaged cost of £50 each / £500m total, what % of that do Xbox as devs/publishers get? I guess 70% max at £350m with no long tail from that customer.

Appreciate this is fag packet maths and finger in the air stuff. I'd love to see what Xbox's projections are and what market penetration they expect to get with gamepass.

Yep it will be interesting to see how this unfolds. What's gamepass like on PC. (Responsive, easy to use, good graphical quality? What speeds and specs does it need? Etc)

esmufc07 said:
But if people just want to play TES then they're not going to keep their subscription are they? Some might once they've started and they like the looks of other games, others will just pay for the month or two they need to play the game then cancel.

That's the kinda thing I'd do anyway, sub on and off when needed, probably using discounts too. You might end up getting 2-3 months out of me for the year...

I'm coming around to it.

Bojan11 · Sep 22, 2020

MS are not done yet it seems. They looking to buy two more studios.

afrocentricity · Sep 22, 2020

See my thing (and I appreciate I'm in the minority here) is that Bethesda were early supporters of PSVR and VR in general. I've been dreaming of the next Elder Scrolls, Fallout, Doom etc in VR. I hope that happens and I hope MS don't feck that up.

I'm thinking they would definitely get to release on PC, but I don't have a PCVR setup yet and I'm kinda leaning towards PSVR because of PS games and console experience. Based on Minecraft and other things, I feel like they would still get to support PSVR/PSVR2.

Let's see what happens...

Spoony · Sep 22, 2020

Ps5 v Xbox thing does make me chuckle.

Alock1 · Sep 22, 2020

esmufc07 said:
But if people just want to play TES then they're not going to keep their subscription are they? Some might once they've started and they like the looks of other games, others will just pay for the month or two they need to play the game then cancel.

Yeah I know, I'm not sure what a reasonable number was but the 1m was people who continued. I was thinking there might be a higher % who would subscribe for a short period just to play and then may drop off.

Once in I imagine it has pretty good retention numbers as it's really valuable, especially with 23 studios MS will be adding new exclusives to gamepass often

FreakyJim · Sep 22, 2020

Last few Fallout games were atrocious. If Microsoft manages to make Bethesda not suck, then great.

mancan92 · Sep 22, 2020

esmufc07 said:
But if people just want to play TES then they're not going to keep their subscription are they? Some might once they've started and they like the looks of other games, others will just pay for the month or two they need to play the game then cancel.

Or like most subscriptions people will just forget to cancel and it will just carry on being taken from their account.

Alock1 · Sep 22, 2020

afrocentricity said:
That's the kinda thing I'd do anyway, sub on and off when needed, probably using discounts too. You might end up getting 2-3 months out of me for the year...

When Netflix was starting up, people's approach was similar then too. Free trial, or get it for a few months, smash the content and cancel until next year. Once people were invested and Netflix were updating with regular strong content, more and more users stayed and churn reduced. I am sure it'll be the case here.

They will of course look at models that help with that too. @esmufc07 elderscrolls is the type of game people play for months because it is so huge, and MS will make sure there is a regular post-launch content plan in place. New areas, new characters, new side stories - basically DLC, but at perceived £0 cost because it'll be available via your gamepass sub. They'll be pretty confident that they can retain other people through the huge library of other games, but also ongoing content for the games those individuals are really invested in.

Bojan11 · Sep 22, 2020

Alock1 said:
When Netflix was starting up, people's approach was similar then too. Free trial, or get it for a few months, smash the content and cancel until next year. Once people were invested and Netflix were updating with regular strong content, more and more users stayed and churn reduced. I am sure it'll be the case here.

They will of course look at models that help with that too. @esmufc07 elderscrolls is the type of game people play for months because it is so huge, and MS will make sure there is a regular post-launch content plan in place. New areas, new characters, new side stories - basically DLC, but at perceived £0 cost because it'll be available via your gamepass sub. They'll be pretty confident that they can retain other people through the huge library of other games, but also ongoing content for the games those individuals are really invested in.

They charge for DLC. Outer worlds DLC was released last week albeit you get a discount if you with gamepass.

Alock1 · Sep 22, 2020

Bojan11 said:
They charge for DLC. Outer worlds DLC was released last week albeit you get a discount if you with gamepass.

Was Out Worlds published by MS though?

Maybe they will. But I think ongoing content for games is going to be what locks people in to gamepass so I imagine that a lot will be offered for free. Halo for example they've said is a platform for the next 10 years right - there will be Destiny like expansions and all will be included with gamepass.

I guess it probably depends on the content.

Gaming Microsoft buys Zenimax | 9th March: Bethesda games officially joins Microsoft. Unlucky Afro.

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